Progress, in terms of going out in public

I asked for advice in a recent thread about going out in public. I have had a weird history of going out in public. In fact, the first time I ever went out in public dressed, I went out to a mall on Black Friday that was packed full of thousands of shoppers and had no trouble. However it was easy for me at the time because I was extremely naive and thought I passed. I actually had zero trouble going out in public for a couple months, with full confidence, until a group of teenagers humiliated me one night at a JC Penney that set me straight.

Ever since then its been a slow trek back to being able to go out in public, as I work to regain the confidence I once had. I have been able to go out in public, but I generally limit myself to easy places to go that are friendly(such as a makeup store like ULTA) or wide open and/or low in traffic(Kohl's is a good one since its big, generally not packed, with plenty of room and space). When it comes to going into places that are busy or have a lot of people I either don't bother or chicken out. For example, last weekend I went to a mall, and wanted to go to the Food Court but was too afraid to walk through the main corridor to get there as it was too crowded so I never got the courage to step out of the JC Penney, and the weekend before I chickened out going into an Old Navy because it was too busy.

Well, yesterday I feel like I took some steps in the right direction. There was a sale at Old Navy, 50% off jeans, and they have a caramel color jean that I really wanted. That meant having to go to Old Navy when it was busy. I decided to go dressed up. It was busier than the time before when I chickened out. I had to circle the parking lot for a while just to find a spot. I finally got a spot in the back of the lot, which meant I had to walk across the entire parking lot to get to the store, meaning walking by a lot of people and cars hunting for spots. I was pretty nervous, and sat in my car for a good 15 minutes working up the courage to step out. Finally, I got out of my car and began walking. I walked across the lot, and into the store. Once in the store, it was pretty busy. I found what I needed, and got into the long line of people. I probably had to wait 15 minutes in line. I paid at the register and walked out. It wasn't so bad. Did I get stared at by some people inside? Yes. But it wasn't anything major and no bad comments or laughs.

I wasn't done. There was a Target in the same mall. I could have either gone back to my car and driven to the other side to where the entrance was, or walk all the way through the busy mall to get to the Target instead. I decided to walk through the busy mall, something I wouldn't have done the week before. Of course, people stared at me, but I was becoming immune to it. As I walked through the mall, I would look through store windows and see reflections. People would assume I was looking inside, but I was actually looking at the reflections of people walking by me. Of course almost everyone would look/stare at me. Oh well.

I made it to Target which was so busy it was like a bottleneck traffic jam just to get inside. One Target employee actually had to ask people to clear the way so employees with a pallet could get through. It didn't phase me. I went to the women's clothing section and bought a couple of shirts to go with my new jeans as they were having a buy 2 get 1 25% off special. Once again I had to wait quite a long time to check out, but I didn't care. I left and had to walk back through the mall and back through the parking lot to get to my car. I then went to a Kohl's, and a grocery store after that with no trouble. I had planned on going to a Starbucks too, but my phone was out of battery.

Overall I'd say it was a success simply because I took the step of putting myself out there in busier, more crowded places. My presentation wasn't at the top of my game, my makeup wasn't among the best I have done, but the world didn't end and I didn't suffer any humiliation. At the same time, I would be lying if I said I completely owned it and was out there with total confidence. Though I had a smile on my face every second, I was still nervous, and did my best not to make eye contact with people who were staring at me. A lot of advice says not to shy away from eye contact and return eye contact to those who are staring - I am still trying to get there. I'll keep working on my confidence, but I am glad I was able to take that next step.

Congratulations! Everything gets easier with practice.

Don't worry about passing in these kinds of situations. I'm 5'11", 212lbs, broad shoulders & handlebar mustache. I never ever pass, just go about my business. Resale boutiques are great for sparse clientele and good interaction with sales staff.

I admire your courage, I really do! Definitely it is a success, make a few more of these bold moves and it'll become a second nature. Pushing against the fear is a victory on its own. Good luck.

Well, you're braver than me. I'm just finding my feet with regards to going out. A few weeks a go I had my fist daylight drive, which went well. Last Monday I bought a new winter coat in a nearby town, was in drab but tried it on in the store. something I wouldn't have dreamed of doing until recently. Yesterday I parked my car and went for a walk, not too many people about where I went but nervous as hell, again a first and no complications. Now the next step, interaction. Your trip out seems to have gone well, and you're certainly more passable than I am, so we'll see what happens. People have some said the more you do something the easier it gets (an oft used but true cliche). Hope so.

Great story hun, your doing great. It does get better I mean I'm 6'2 and just over 200lbs and I know I stand out but I'm just out shopping and being myself. Most people have their own business to deal with.
Your way ahead of a lot too because many girls here can't go out alone. Your doing great
Leigh

Dolovewell, you did well and went to numerous places and with crowds. Take a deep breath and realize you did well. Not every time is going to be wonderful and your look won't be perfect every time. Like in cub scouts-do your best! That really is all you can do! Best wishes going forward! Hugs Lana Mae

Little steps help us move along to new adventures and milestones. One thing stuck out for me in your post. "My presentation wasn't at the top of my game, my makeup wasn't among the best I have done, ...". From the little I have seen from your pictures, which may or may not reflect on your normal going out presentation and makeup, I would say worry less about perfection. In particular with regards to makeup. Your lips are very defined and normally a darker color. Plus, you are an attractive women with a nice figure in those pics. I hardly ever see GG's with perfect makeup on their eyes and lips. Just do enough to blend in. Perfect eyes and lipstick make people want to stare. I stare when I see that too. Not out looking to see if I am seeing a trans person, but because that level of perfect is rare in the real world during the day at regular venues, like the coffee shop or stores and malls, I am staring at their beauty and figure, or there use of too much makeup for the venue.

Keep up the good work and don't let a few set backs stop you from enjoying being yourself.

dolove,

Congrats on your recent shopping excursion! :thumbsup:

It's a lot bigger of a deal than you give yourself credit for.


Honestly, I've never walked a mall by myself before. That can take guts, in my eyes! Not like it was ever something that I felt like I wanted or needed to do, as my full en femme was usually social in nature. But, still.

In some ways, it's a lot braver than some things I've done, IMO, which others (including yourself) might think I was a little "crazy" to do. Weird how we perceive stuff. :)


As for others staring? Seriously, if you make eye contact, quite a few (but perhaps not all) *will* stop! It's simple human nature, regardless if it's CD-related or not.

Otherwise, you're basically "giving permission" for them to continue looking, because they think you don't realize they are.

Congrats for your courage and perseverance in taking that "next step". There are many more ahead.
It truly gets easier and easier the more you explore. I, too, enjoy going to stores and I pump my own gas.

Great job! Sounds a lot like my recent trips. Keep it up!

Congrats on the outing. the one thing i took from your story and am clinging to in hopes it works for me is your attitude to the attention you received. I will be going to a Christmas party in a couple of weeks, the entrance to the bar is right off the parking lot..... that's no problem but another girl from the forum and wife invited my wife and I up to their room(in the adjoining hotel) for a drink and chat before the party starts. This will entail walking through the hotel lobby and taking the elevator to their floor. This has me quaking in my heels, my wife laughed and said I can do it. On one level I really want to be able to walk with head held high and say I don't care on the other hand I know I'm going to be so nervous, but when I'm walking through that lobby I will think of you in that mall and hope I have a smile on my face like you did.

Good for you - nicely done! ;)

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Originally Posted by AllieSF

Little steps help us move along to new adventures and milestones. One thing stuck out for me in your post. "My presentation wasn't at the top of my game, my makeup wasn't among the best I have done, ...". From the little I have seen from your pictures, which may or may not reflect on your normal going out presentation and makeup, I would say worry less about perfection. In particular with regards to makeup. Your lips are very defined and normally a darker color. Plus, you are an attractive women with a nice figure in those pics. I hardly ever see GG's with perfect makeup on their eyes and lips. Just do enough to blend in. Perfect eyes and lipstick make people want to stare. I stare when I see that too. Not out looking to see if I am seeing a trans person, but because that level of perfect is rare in the real world during the day at regular venues, like the coffee shop or stores and malls, I am staring at their beauty and figure, or there use of too much makeup for the venue.

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It really is a catch-22 situation and its tough. I think about this all the time. "Is the amount of makeup I am wearing too much for what I am going out for?" and my answer is usually yes. The thing is, wearing less makeup is more natural and "blendable", but I also look less feminine. I rely on makeup to kind of mask as much as my masculinity as I can. There are a few outings I have had(with picture sets on my Flickr) where I went with a more subtle makeup look(less foundation/concealer, brown eyeliner, not much if any eye makeup on my lower lash line, lighter lip color), and I am not the biggest fan of those pictures, they make me cringe. I even stopped wearing my brown eyeliner because I didn't feel like it was feminizing my eyes enough and I would only see male in those pictures. I feel like I look better and more feminine when I am more heavy with my makeup, but at the same time, I may very well be overdone for simply going out to the mall or store. Yet, I think I prefer that to my lighter makeup looks, just because I would rather look overdone and more feminine than more appropriate and more masculine. I think I need to work on finding a middle ground. For this reason of blending in I have actually been wearing darker lip colors lately, since its fall and that's when women wear darker lip colors.

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Originally Posted by laurababe

As for others staring? Seriously, if you make eye contact, quite a few (but perhaps not all) *will* stop! It's simple human nature, regardless if it's CD-related or not.

Otherwise, you're basically "giving permission" for them to continue looking, because they think you don't realize they are.

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I actually don't mind getting stared at, I just don't want to be the punchline of a joke or a spectacle. If you want to stare at me because you read me male and are trying to figure it out, fine, just keep it quick and get on with it. I think I am just afraid of people staring at me because they think its funny or are looking at me as an object of ridicule. I think this is ultimately why I am afraid to make eye contact with starers, because me looking back at them would be me acknowledging that I am being stared at in the first place. By not looking at the starers, I am, in my mind, denying the fact I am being stared at. It's like I don't want to know I am being stared at, so I pretend in my mind its not happening and don't return the stare.

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Originally Posted by April Showers

Congrats on the outing. the one thing i took from your story and am clinging to in hopes it works for me is your attitude to the attention you received. I will be going to a Christmas party in a couple of weeks, the entrance to the bar is right off the parking lot..... that's no problem but another girl from the forum and wife invited my wife and I up to their room(in the adjoining hotel) for a drink and chat before the party starts. This will entail walking through the hotel lobby and taking the elevator to their floor. This has me quaking in my heels, my wife laughed and said I can do it. On one level I really want to be able to walk with head held high and say I don't care on the other hand I know I'm going to be so nervous, but when I'm walking through that lobby I will think of you in that mall and hope I have a smile on my face like you did.

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From my experience the first steps are always the hardest. Once I am going there is no stopping me, I just have to get going in the first place. It's like moving a big boulder. The hard part is getting it rolling, but once its rolling, its easy.

Congrads and well done!!... of course without seeing you we here have no idea what you looked like. But if your profile pic is anything to go by perhaps many of the people who were looking/staring at you were simply looking at a pretty woman?

Clearly you were traumatised badly once before and of course we all would be in that situation, but in my experience the majority of people are not walking around looking at each person wondering what gender they are, they simply read the obvious signals like dress or heels and simply presume woman. Yes of course some people will pick up on a contrary reading like Adam's apple or whatever, but most people don't look that closely.

First off, I want to be sensitive about not-making this post sound like its all about me. It's just that the past week or so I have been in a malaise about taking some girl time. I had an opportunity to spend the day as Sarah and go out - but I didn't take it. It's just been a stressful week both work-wise and personally, so I just decided to stay put, and now I regret it.

So thank you DLW for sharing the details and challenges of your recent trip out. Frankly your post is the inspiration (kick in the butt?) I needed to get back out there! I've got a new window of opportunity to go out this week and I'm gonna take it!

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Originally Posted by Becky Blue

Congrads and well done!!... of course without seeing you we here have no idea what you looked like. But if your profile pic is anything to go by perhaps many of the people who were looking/staring at you were simply looking at a pretty woman?

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Yeah I probably should have posted a pic of what I looked like yesterday. Here is a pic I took in a Kohl's fitting room about an hour after I went to Target/Old Navy at the mall.

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Originally Posted by SarahSerene

First off, I want to be sensitive about not-making this post sound like its all about me. It's just that the past week or so I have been in a malaise about taking some girl time. I had an opportunity to spend the day as Sarah and go out - but I didn't take it. It's just been a stressful week both work-wise and personally, so I just decided to stay put, and now I regret it.

So thank you DLW for sharing the details and challenges of your recent trip out. Frankly your post is the inspiration (kick in the butt?) I needed to get back out there! I've got a new window of opportunity to go out this week and I'm gonna take it!

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Everytime I don't go out I regret it. It's weird. Like when I was out last night, I was bummed I had to go home, I wanted to keep it going, but I had no phone battery and needed to get home. I usually hammer myself hard when I chicken out, so I'd rather tough it up than deal with regret. Good luck.

Seriously Dolovewell you look gorgeous and feminine, I bet the majority of people looking at you were probably thinking that woman looks nice. I bet some guys were thinking I would love to get into her panties and some women were probably thinking B#$@h I wish i looked like her.

That is some courage! I envy you. You must be realy realy confident about yourself and that is great.
Oh and that pic you posted, somehow its realy hard to belive that isn't just some gg ;) You are beautiful woman! Some guys probably 'll call you milf ;)

IMHO, if people were staring it was because you are very pretty.... that gets attention from males one way, GG''s another, as previously noted .To me your smile will sell every time.Wonderful adventure,keep it up.

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Originally Posted by dolovewell

I actually don't mind getting stared at, I just don't want to be the punchline of a joke or a spectacle. If you want to stare at me because you read me male and are trying to figure it out, fine, just keep it quick and get on with it. I think I am just afraid of people staring at me because they think its funny or are looking at me as an object of ridicule. I think this is ultimately why I am afraid to make eye contact with starers, because me looking back at them would be me acknowledging that I am being stared at in the first place. By not looking at the starers, I am, in my mind, denying the fact I am being stared at. It's like I don't want to know I am being stared at, so I pretend in my mind its not happening and don't return the stare.

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No one wants to be the object of a joke or a spectacle. Checking someone out and starring is two different things and different people react differently. That's why it's best not to stare, just take a look and move on. However, if someone is starring and they know you know, and you don't look back, then they could perceive that as a sign of insecurity or weakness. Starring back could also be taken the wrong way though. Some may think you are interested in them. Not good either way. You could try what others here have suggested and that is to smile back at them. Be cautious when someone is definitely starring at you.

Good on ya.

How about, purely as an experiment, going somewhere you feel safe and deliberately returning every gaze you feel coming your way with a broad smile. Owning it 101. Just try it for 10 or 15 minutes, then get away and think about the experience. I'm willing to bet you get plenty of smiles back. I know it would take guts, but you're no coward.

A lot of what happens when you go out is you confidence builds with each outing.

Yes there will be a few ups and downs along the way, but I do agree with Becky I a lot will be staring at the pretty young woman.

This happen especially if its not a close up encounter. Sometimes you will find things that surprise you, like you may find a gent holding a door open for you. Even just being addressed as Miss or Madam by a sales assistant helps the ego.

Great story if you had a nice time that is all that matters, and it sounds like you got some great jeans and tops :-)

Positive events do build confidence and when you get a negative, work out why it was so and work on it.

You seem to be doing well, keep smiling. :-)

Avoiding eye contact may not be the most helpful thing you can do; I have had better luck with making eye contact to the point they look away or ignoring them completely and not acknowledging their presence in any way. This does depend on your self-confidence, and the circumstances to a great extent and does not mean to avoid observing them (you want to see if "Something might be gaining on you" per Satchell Page).

Congratulations on your outing. I know you had fun. I've been out to the mall and walking around town but I try to avoid interacting with people so I've never actually shopped or bought anything while dressed.

Looking at your photo, you look like a female so I'm surprised that people would stare. Maybe it's just because you are tall for a woman.

Congratulations! I still get nervous from time to time and can relate. It's worth noting that when a place is crowded, that means that it's filled with people who are there for a reason and have more on their minds than you. It's the places where there are idle folks who have nothing better to do that tend to be more of a problem. ;) After a while you get to the point where you focus so much on what you're there for that you forget about how you're dressed. I've occasionally been brought up short when someone says something like, "Oh, I like your necklace" and I think, "Oh yeah, I'm wearing a necklace."

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Originally Posted by Nikkilovesdresses

Good on ya.

How about, purely as an experiment, going somewhere you feel safe and deliberately returning every gaze you feel coming your way with a broad smile. Owning it 101. Just try it for 10 or 15 minutes, then get away and think about the experience. I'm willing to bet you get plenty of smiles back. I know it would take guts, but you're no coward.

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Originally Posted by donnalee

Avoiding eye contact may not be the most helpful thing you can do; I have had better luck with making eye contact to the point they look away or ignoring them completely and not acknowledging their presence in any way. This does depend on your self-confidence, and the circumstances to a great extent and does not mean to avoid observing them (you want to see if "Something might be gaining on you" per Satchell Page).

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To address both of you, I have been thinking about it and I really want to return eye contact and not shy away from people staring at me. I think its all mental. As I said earlier, by returning eye contact to the starers and gazers, that would mean I would have to mentally accept the fact I am being stared at. I think this is the obstacle I am facing - I don't want to accept the fact people are staring at me, so looking away is my coping mechanism so I can still give myself plausible deniability about being stared at. The thing is, I know its happening, so why do I work so hard to deny the fact I am being stared at?

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Looking at your photo, you look like a female so I'm surprised that people would stare. Maybe it's just because you are tall for a woman.

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To be honest, I think I might be presentably female, but I know for a fact that anyone who gets a decent look at me will be able to tell something is off. This is why I think I get stared at so much, people are trying to figure out why the image of me is clashing with their brain. I honestly think that CDs who don't come anywhere close to passing and are not even up to presentability standards get stared at less - because its so obvious there is no need to give a deep stare to figure it out.

You are right about my height - I am extremely self conscious about it at 6 feet tall. It makes me feel like an Amazon Woman, even though I am fairly slender. It's why I have never understood the fascination with heels in the CD community - I own one pair of heels that I have only worn once, when I didn't even go out in public. Now they collect dust. I am already extremely self conscious about my height, why would I want to make myself even taller?

From pictures I've seen of you, you look very passable. Yes, hardly any of us will truly pass under great scrutiny, but I suspect you're over-worrying and most who notice see a tall girl. A few maybe think is she a he, come to no conclusion and then carry on with their business. That's those that even bother looking at you of course!

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Originally Posted by dolovewell

until a group of teenagers humiliated me one night at a JC Penney that set me straight.

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Teenagers can be brutal! You fell, or were pushed off, your horse and you need to get back on. Easier to say than to do so congratulations on your latest outing.

As others have said, when I see your photos I see a girl. The incident with the teenagers has probably pushed you from being slightly complacent about your ability to 'pass' to being hyper - critical of your ability. Reality lies somewhere in between and you will find it!

I'm 6', and while I might confuse people at 20' range I'm under no illusions about passing at close quarters. However, I know from experience that if you meet a stare with a (apparently) confident smile one of two things generally happens, either the starer gets embarrassed to have been caught staring and rapidly averts their gaze or they smile back.
If you're in a really mischievous mood you might be tempted to combine the smile with a really obvious wink. Perhaps not!

About your comment on make up I understand your theory on the amount of make up.
To be honest I felt that way for a long time too.
I was trying to hide the guy just like you are and I got a tip from a make up artist friend of mine.
Everyone has wrinkles and skin imperfections so don't worry about them less is more when it comes to make up.
She said too thick draws too much attention for GG and CDers and it looks very un natural.

I've been thinking a lot lately about the make up issue.Most GG's I know always do eyeshadow, mascara, and a dab of lipstick. Everything after that is elective. I don't have great skin so I tend towards foundation, but probably overdo it most of the time. I agree with Tracii that "less is more'.

I think you look fantastic and I truly admire your courage to go out at all. I've made small steps, but I don't know if I'll ever be passable or have the confidence to overcome that fear. My wife doesn't like to shop alone and she says she feels awkward, I think about this when I debate ever going out into public. Great job, you are an inspiration!

You are doing very well and most people would not "read you" Just be strong and confident and ignore the stares. Who knows why they are staring at you, so just ignore or give them a quick glance and turn away. The more confident and self-assured you are the less people will spend their time staring. BE STRONG AND WALK ON!

There is no substitution for "street time". So,keep at it !

Seriously girl! If I looked half as good as you, I would never go out in male clothing again. <3

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Originally Posted by dolovewell

It really is a catch-22 situation and its tough. I think about this all the time. "Is the amount of makeup I am wearing too much for what I am going out for?" and my answer is usually yes. The thing is, wearing less makeup is more natural and "blendable", but I also look less feminine. I rely on makeup to kind of mask as much as my masculinity as I can. There are a few outings I have had(with picture sets on my Flickr) where I went with a more subtle makeup look(less foundation/concealer, brown eyeliner, not much if any eye makeup on my lower lash line, lighter lip color), and I am not the biggest fan of those pictures, they make me cringe. I even stopped wearing my brown eyeliner because I didn't feel like it was feminizing my eyes enough and I would only see male in those pictures. I feel like I look better and more feminine when I am more heavy with my makeup, but at the same time, I may very well be overdone for simply going out to the mall or store. Yet, I think I prefer that to my lighter makeup looks, just because I would rather look overdone and more feminine than more appropriate and more masculine. I think I need to work on finding a middle ground. For this reason of blending in I have actually been wearing darker lip colors lately, since its fall and that's when women wear darker lip colors.

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Understood, dolove.

I think it can be an issue many of us face (pun not intended! :heehee: ).

There really is a "tipping point," of sorts: Too much, and one looks out of place as a GG, which would attract more attention; not enough, and one simply looks like a guy wearing a bit of make-up, which, of course, would attract more attention. It's tough to find that sweet spot.


It's also a reason why I tended to go out from late afternoon, on -- because a heavier evening look is much more applicable to, well, the evening! :D


I also stayed away from darker lips. Why? For one, it will make your lips appear smaller. And honestly, I'd rather have the appearance of larger lips, as that's generally a GG trait, relatively speaking, compared to thinner ones. And two, darker lips will draw that much more attention to them -- and also to one's chin & jaw. Not particularly a CD'er's most feminine area.

A third reason, and it might sound weird, but it makes sense in my head, anyway :laughing: : So somebody realizes you're a guy dressed as a woman. They might not be all that accepting of it. But would they potentially be a wee bit more "forgiving" if you were wearing a medium or light lip, as opposed to this strong dark color? What I mean is, I kind of liken it to: Would another person be that much cooler with the whole thing if the CD'er was wearing jeans as opposed to a short skirt & hose? I believe the answer is yes, in both cases, as it boils down to "degree."


Anyway, going out in public is a whole new ballgame when it comes to this, as you've been finding out. A CD'er has to step up her game in all kinds of ways, IMO, and it doesn't come overnight. Progress is always good. :thumbsup: