Displaying macho traits

Hello ladies,
I've been. A member of this forum for a year now, and I've learnt so much over that time.
I haven't posted much but I love reading all the threads,following all the personalities and characters that abound here.
I feel comfortable being here .

Through my reading of the many posts and reading your BIOs, a large proportion of the members have very macho jobs and pastimes. For example soldiers, fighter pilots, police men, firefighters, construction workers, hunters, marathoners, long distance bike riders. Etc....

Yes and Gentic women do these things as well and if not better than men, though they don't do them in the same numbers as males my question is not about females not being able to do these things.

My macho claim is that I liked to surf large waves in my younger days though I still surf ,the waves aren't as big as they used to be, actually they are quiet sedate now.

My question is do you feel you did these macho careers and pastimes to try to hide/ conceal your dressing to proof to yourself that you lived up to societies perceived ideas on masculinity?

Thinking back now I really think that is why I went and did the big waves. And other silly things

Rosie

Rosie, yeah spent most of my life as an alpha male. But in my heart I knew better and did dress through the years in pretty much private going out a few times. However since I have semi retired, I like being feminine and dressing more and now have gone out and about more than I ever have and becoming a more feminine male. Yep we had to be males and now the feminine instincts kicked in an now I am enjoying it more than I ever have.

Hi Rosemary:hugs:, I have been in this program for over 69 of my 74 years now.

My macho carrier in construction and the petroleum industry provided a great life
for my family and a great retirement for my:love:Wife and me.

Having the best of both worlds has been wonderful for me...:daydreaming:...

For me personally, I just took jobs that payed well so I could pay bills. I never considered them macho. Now I'm an HCA (Home Care Aide.) So in a way I can call myself a nurse 😃
As for doing macho things as society says what makes men, yes I did do things to fit in. But, I will not anymore. I will do things I enjoy.

Hmmm,

I enjoy the "macho" things that I do. The only areas that I feel have been affected on the negative scale may be occasionally drinking too much in the past, not admitting to my female side, and judging myself and interactions with others on false standards of what it means to be a man, or woman for that matter. When you get down to it, the Fonz was a bad role model.

I'd say I did (have done) the things that interested me but shaded my behavior to appear more solidly cisgender than a real cisgender male would have to. For example, I rode motorcycles because I like riding motorcycles and I think I'd have liked it no matter what sex I was born. But amongst other riders (male or female) I would curtail myself from acting on instincts that I thought might show me as unmanly and thus open up a crack in the armor that would "expose" me. Since there were things I would do when expressing female that I wouldn't do as a male it led me to the erroneous conclusion that I had two separate personae. It wasn't until I really started examining why I would not allow myself to express those things as a male that I started to coalesce into a single unified personality. Not saying my answer is universally right, just saying that's how it worked out for me.

I chose my career path because I was hungry and felt an obligation to feed my family. I stuck with that job until retirement. It was a professional white color job. I really do not believe their are many cross dressers who intentionally seek out traditional masculine jobs to hide their cross dressing tendencies. It's where the money was. I think that is fairly evident when you see women getting into traditional male fields. And, since registered nurses are making decent money I see many males as RN now.

I was a rough and tumble kid. There was absolutely no desire to wear girlie clothes. I was not petticoated by sisters or female cousins, aunts or my mother. The desire to wear women's clothing arose with puberty. Why? No idea! But, in the 1960's these desires made me think I had to be gay. That was the thinking back then.

Uncle Sam drafted me. Made me an infantryman. Sent me to Vietnam where I was totally immersed in the most manly actions a male could be asked to do. I carry the pieces of metal inside me. Any thoughts that I could be a gay man were totally extinguished by my military experience. All those masculine bodies in the shower rooms, the bays, etc and no desires kindled. So, I deduced I was an ordinary man who likes to wear women's clothing.

Your question is the same question asked of gay men.

Can't really look back and pick out anything that could be called macho that I've done. I've had a lot of jobs, none of which I've liked very much, but working at my local airport I found a real pain because of the macho culture that prevailed there. I'm neutral about my male side and don't recall when Ive ever tried to prove my 'maleness' to myself or anyone else.

I have worked Macho jobs most of my life! Well, not true I have been a nurse for 30+ years. Macho role however! Then I suddenly realized that I am not as macho as I thought. I am a male in a female job field! Then the wife dies and I find I am CD. No I was not really hiding anything, I just did not understand back in the day! LOL Hugs Lana Mae

I'm with Dana44.
All my life was an attempt to "fit in" in the macho world of males.
Now that I'm older and have come out to my wife I'm so much happier being ME.

In my case, I've been in the position of the alpha male as often as not, though I never really wanted it. Mentally, I'm the footsoldier type who makes things happen in the background without fanfare. My physical size and a certain capability in "macho" activities kind draws people's attention to me and identifies me as a "man's man". The reality is different. I'm definitely most comfortable in a dress. But none of the people who work or play sports with me would guess in a million years.

To answer your really great question, I do not do the macho stuff to compensate or cover anything up. They've just always been there naturally. Maybe that's partly why CDing is important to me; to provide a refuge from the demands that I don't wear all that comfortably.

In another recent thread I was asked if I enlisted in the Army in order to deny myself the desire to crossdress. I answered no, it was for other reasons. Again here, no. I don't do anything artificial to conceal my desire to crossdress. I love to crossdress, but I also genuinely love to play and watch sports, hunt, fish, build things, and even mow the yard (it's a riding mower, hardly qualifies as work). Even fixing things around the house gives me satisfaction and a sense of accomplishment.

I did the macho things to blend in but at home behind close doors I always wanted and did the girly things. Now it's more the girly things that are coming to the surface. If I could get rid of my deep voice she would go out more often.

I have never consider things I do as macho or feminine, I like building and repair just about anything. It is my nature as is crossdressing. I also never been to strip clubs, a skirt chase or chest beater. Partly because I was very shy, partly I have more respect for others. I just do what I do.
Sara

I never got around to the alpha-provider male role. That's one area in which I think my gender issues genuinely crippled my potential. My father saw me drifting with an incomplete university education in my mid-20s and offered to put me through law school as I came off what would become a permanent separation from an ill-advised early marriage. It was the first time I'd ever finally been able to study effectively, and I did very well. Then I graduated, passed the bar exam, and discovered that what lawyers do was awful and made me horribly depressed. Even the women who excel in law practice are macho over-compensators. I wasn't even close to the self-confidence (some would say outright indifference to humane behavior) that seemed to be required. I hoped to find a mentor in some kind of lucrative niche that I could learn and settle in to, but that never happened.

Then I started a real-life test four years out of school, and in those days discrimination was rampant, on top of the field being crowded in California's legal profession. I ended up in a legal publishing house for the bulk of what passed for a career, and actually did pretty well after leaving five years on to move out of state, as I was able to do the same work on a piecework contract and became very efficient at turning over the work. That lasted eight more years before a merger put an end to contract editing, and it never was particularly well-paid. Since then, I drifted without much of an income until I met my wife, who had a good Silicon Valley administrative job and salary. I don't have a clue what my circumstances would be today if I hadn't joined forces with her.

As for non-career machismo, not much to report. The manliest thing I did was to race motorcycles off and on, including a brief fling with vintage competition in my early 50s, but I was never an aggressive success there either. I just enjoyed the precision machines (rebuilt a Spanish dirt-track bike from the last nut and bolt), the adrenalin shots, and the fun of sliding around, but I was always too big and too timid to be a real racer. I also enjoyed alpine ski racing, more because I was a natural-born skier than being an athlete, but my success there was limited by both athleticism and (again) a lack of killer instinct. Interestingly enough, I raced as a woman during my full-time experiment and did better, but, again, from innate talent and not from superior male strength. Instead of running near the back of the men's group, my times put me second or third against the other women. I've also done decently at competitive golf (match play) by playing the whole game well, not by crushing the long shots, but I don't like the all-male competitive environment there, either.

I was never a big sports fan, and less and less so as I age. My butch sister follows all the teams, all season, all sports.

I am mechanically inclined and have those traditional male interests and aptitudes, but I sometimes think it was being expected to learn how to take things apart and put them back together, upon which I found I had some talents there as well. I've also done quite a bit of home remodeling, including some pretty extensive upgrades, but I'm hardly a job-site hardhat type.

It's said that some of us dive into overcompensating male behaviors such as military and aggressive business careers to distract ourselves from the temptations of our feminine sides, and there seem to be a lot of stories here of those who at least accumulated a decent pile of loot for old age doing so. In my case, however, I'm convinced that my particular set of gender issues constituted a long-term disability. I just had to spend too much time and effort (mental and emotional) to keep an even keel, and that dissipated whatever career potential I might have once had.

Like Nicole, I do things just because I like it. I choose my job because I like it and was good at it. I choose my hobbies because I like them. I never tried to overact.
People are frequently surprised because I can be very tough and in the same time I can show a lot of tenderness. I just who I am and crossdressing is a way to express this side of me.

Hey Rosie. Everything I did as I grew up and later did as an Adult, I did because I wanted to, not to impress or fit in. I took a job in civil engineering because I liked the work. So did several GG colleagues over the years of my career. I backpack canyons and mountains because I love it. Had lots of ladies on these trips. Same with whitewater canoeing, it's something I like to do. And so do a lot of women. So hard to say what's Macho or not to impress when a lot of females are doing it too.
The only time I did try to prove how macho I was when I grew beards. But that was just to see how I looked and compare with the others in the office or at college. After a couple of months, it got old. It wasn't me.
So I guess you could say I've been my own person over these 61 years and yet I'm just finding out my true self. Read my tag line and you'll get where I'm coming from.

I have never had a macho type job and I am not an Alpha male type and have never pursued macho type hobbies either. I am very much of the opinion that my business career has been assisted by having a strong female side. I can see how some very alpha males are making decisions that are ego driven rather than for good logical reasons.

I would imagine that some would be driven to macho type jobs or hobbies to compensate.

I have marks all over my body from doing macho guy things and they are a constant reminder of things I would rather forget.

I started being macho when I about 11 years old. For boy my age, I was a little chubby (not fat) but I also have boobs developing. And to make matters worst I also have high pitched girly voice. So kids in my school and even my dad laughed at me. So I started getting into sport and I became good at baseball. All of a sudden the kid that was been laughed became popular jock simply because I played baseball and was good at it.

When I got older and started crossdressing I did and still doing everything I can develop my boobs. I no longer try to hide my fem characteristics.

Becky
My career was never a Macho type. Computers maintenance and programming, it is/was mainly a male dominated field thou. In the Navy rose to a top position, but hardly from being Macho, just always because of my skills.
After the military would also rise to the top, again on my skills. Difference being at first was a physical male, but 2-3 years in Transitioned MtF. I always maintained I was an Alpha female in my jobs. The men that I ended up being in charge of, they knew I didn't do it because of EGO, but of my skills.

Still have not figured out what all these Macho/Manly hobbies or skills are. Some mention (Sports/Hunting/Fishing/Cars and/or Racing), and I don't have much interests in those, other than an Alpha type street driving at times.

It is fairly common for CDs/TGs to do hyper-masculine things. Whether that be through risk taking (motorcycles, skydiving, etc.) or through their careers (military, police, fire fighters, etc.) in an attempt to "fix" themselves. I can only speak as a CD, having male and female tendencies, I love both sides of myself. I played football and would do so today if that were remotely possible for an old, slow white guy. I am a competitive runner and that always takes precedence over my female life. I love the competition. I am first and foremost a husband, father and son. But, oh you know........there this whole other part of me that screams for attention.

Being fluid, I can do either.
I love skydiving (got involved as a female friend did it at compertition level and she invited me up for a jump).
Scuba (enjoyed it so much even my ex-wife did a few dives).
Job - military trained loved basic training, bush survival and weapons, specialised in Avionics
Please don't mention what I wore under my flight suit on ops.
Was I hidding - no as being male was natural for me and I still enjoy it most of the time.

I don't go overboard with the macho behaviors (you know, talking like that marine sergeant on the history channel), but I make sure I don't display any feminine behavior or use any speech that could be considered feminine (men in my profession are often automatically assumed to be gay until proven otherwise). I did tailor my gait however, ever so slightly slower (though in speed it isn't noticable because I'm six four), and include just a bit more shoulder swagger, and make sure I always stand up straight. That was one of the things I learned in one of those 'success in business' books, which said the way a man walks can change how people feel about him. Leaders walk differently from followers.

Hi Rosemary,

You have asked an excellent question and it is interesting to see all the great responses. Although I more or less worked for the mining industry which is, of course, a very macho line of work, I was an environmental consultant who designed the plans to clean up the mess after the mining was completed. My focus has always been on caring for the natural world and mitigating the effects of human activity. However, in my personal life I was often intensely masculine and controlling. That came to an end around 2002 when severe depression drove me close to suicide. There was always that background battle between my dual gender identity and that conflict eventually caught up with me. But it wasn't until 2012 that I had to face the reality that underneath it all She was actually the dominant one and that fundamental love of nature and its protection guided the total identity. Four years later I have become more and more feminine/female oriented and am much happier because of it. Not that it is easy. All those early years tended to type cast me and countering that image gets me in trouble sometimes. People still don't expect the previously quite masculine person on the surface to suddenly show a good deal of femininity and an unwillingness to engage in the old behaviors. They don't miss the behaviors but are surprised when they don't pop out when expected. That is not to say Gretchen is devoid of masculine traits and characteristics. She is kind of a tomboy in many ways, but she also dislikes machoistic behavior. Is she classical, stereotypic and traditional feminine? Not on your life. She doesn't care much for doing that either. I suppose in some ways Gretchen is rather androgynous and hangs out in the middle range of the gender spectrum, but over time there seems to have been a shift toward the feminine end while avoiding the extremes of either like the plague. Gretchen is a mountain girl and she is not afraid to do adventurous things and is open to new experiences, but she also has some fairly strict values with respect to going to the extremes for herself. It has been a fascinating journey in retrospect, but I would not want a do-over unless I could adopt a similar identity from very early on.

Gretchen

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jennie-cd

I'd say I did (have done) the things that interested me but shaded my behavior to appear more solidly cisgender than a real cisgender male would have to.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Jennie-cd

For example, I rode motorcycles because I like riding motorcycles and I think I'd have liked it no matter what sex I was born. But amongst other riders (male or female)
I would curtail myself from acting on instincts that I thought might show me as unmanly and thus open up a crack in the armor that would "expose" me.

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That's my experience too. I played rugby because I loved it (and was useless at soccer) not because I necessarily saw it as macho. My career and hobbies are in areas that are predominantly ma!e but they are what interest me and what I'm good at.
However, 'boy me' will not, under any circumstances, wear pink or even glance at, or comment upon, a shop window full of dresses. At least, not in the company of anyone who knows him!

Although I did wear things like my mom's girdle and stockings while a pre-teen and then late teens early 20's dressed in some of my girl friend's dresses, I never thought of myself as a CD'er, too naive I guess, so anything I did that could be considered macho I did because it appealed to me for other reasons other than trying to hide my dressing and prove myself. Also I can't ever remember feeling anything approaching self loathing or disgust with myself because of dressing so there wasn't a need to prove how manly I was.

Did what I wanted to do because I wanted to do it. Had nothing to do with machoness or lack thereof.
Jon

Hello ladies,
Thank you all for responding to this thread, I've enjoyed reading all the replies!
All the so called "macho" pastimes I've done and attempted, I have done because I've had fun doing them, I'm a believer in the old adage, "you wouldn't do it if it wasn't fun"applies here! As my example in the OP, I still surf but the wave aren't as big, it could be that I don't ride the big waves because Im older and the body can't do it anymore. or my thoughts on the matter, is that I've come to terms with myself and I have nothing to prove to myself and I'm happy having Rosie being a big part of me.

Rosie



With Carr

No. When I was a teen I didn't think about being feminine or masculine. I did things with my male friends that were fun and of course those things were more on the masculine side. But I sucked at sports and excelled at music. I think everybody wants to fit in with their peers especially in the teen years. I don't think I ever conciously decided on a career or activity to conceal my cross dressing.

Never felt any need to be macho. I'm just not wired for it. I never felt I needed to be fixed in the sense it's being used here. As I've stated elsewhere, I'd change genders if there were some suoerscience way to do so down to the chromosomes, but there isn't, and won't be in my lifetime, so I dress as much as I can to feel what I can.

I never did anything macho in an effort to conceal or hide my dressing. I always did what I felt like doing and had no problem keeping them separate.

My profession (I happen to be a custom woodworker) is something I do because it is what I love. I have always enjoyed working with wood, it's something that has been in my blood as long as I can remember...just like my dressing. My hobbies include hunting, kayak fishing, scuba diving, as well as a few others. I do these things because I enjoy them, not because they are "macho".

A list of my hobbies and avocations would get maximum macho points. There is hardly a thrill sport I haven't at least tried at some point. Shooting enthusiast. Retired from a very macho profession. Etc. But nope. None of it was every compensation for the presence of Kelly. I just loved those pursuits. Some might say that cross dressing is something of a "thrill sport", but it pales in comparison to a lot of my pastimes, not because it never was. Most of you know what I mean. Now though, it's "the pretty" that is the juice.

" .... do you feel you did these macho careers and pastimes to try to hide/ conceal your dressing to proof to yourself that you lived up to societies perceived ideas on masculinity?"

No, though I never gave much thought to the idea I might be using my career/profession as a "beard" for my crossdressing and gender identity issues. In fact, if I were to pick a place to "hide out" it wouldn't be within the close confines and strict regulatory environment of the military [carrier pilot, 30 yrs]. I was just there to have fun.

I will tell you what DID drive me towards things like my profession and the sports I played. The fear of a father who literally forced his "sissy" son into rough games and sports. I hadn't yet grown to know my adult body, and through most of high school I was pretty much a scrawny weakling, and probably didn't have an honest aggressive bone in my body. Dad was having none of that.

The funny, almost odd thing, is that I actually excelled at some of them (wrestling, for example). The same thing happened when I entered Naval service and learned to fly jets. I never had a burning dream to be a fighter pilot. Wasn't part of my Life Plan. I was a school teacher at the time. An opportunity availed itself to enter flight training. Because I was always more of a studious Nerd than the Macho Athlete, I found that flying jets was fairly easy. I had a knack for it, and except for a few hair-raising moments, it was a lot of damn fun. I never really thought of it as "the macho thing to do", except when shipmates got drunk and started to act the boorish fighter pilot part. I was so different inside and underneath from most of my fellow aviators.

The reality is, for me, that these "macho things" found me. I didn't seek or find them.

I am a male but I have never considered myself to be macho, I don't think this is a result of my crossdressing rather it's just the way I am.

I played rugby at school but after that I have never been into that type of sport so I have never been in that male dominated environment. My 'sport' has always been motor-sport and I competed in off-road racing for many years. Whilst this might appear to be macho there were almost as many females involved in all aspects of the sport as there were males. So I suppose that in all divisions of my life, be it work or play I have been in a mixed environment which tends to suppress macho traits.

I think if you asked my friends about me they would say that I am compassionate and have a sensitive nature, not in the sense of being easily offended, but more that I am aware of how others are feeling and do not go out of my way to be offensive.

Until I retired I did a manual job and I do enjoy a beer or two but I can't say that makes me macho. Conversely I don't think I come over at all effeminate so perhaps I would be classified as gender neutral.

I joined the military because it was a statutory duty, but wasn't in a posting that required me to be Rambo Part V by vocation. But by culture? For the most part, yes.
Earlier on I was more nerd than jock, and it still carries till today - not that I'd expect it to change in a counterfactual world where I was a GG. I do more sports now, in any case; it's always a necessity to keep fit, rather than any form of overcompensation. My interest in motoring is just that; I wasn't exactly raised with it.

I am curious, though, if anyone here bodybuilds or lifts. I obviously don't do either (although dumbbells are part of my workout).

"My question is do you feel you did these macho careers and pastimes to try to hide/ conceal your dressing to proof to yourself that you lived up to societies perceived ideas on masculinity?"

Nope, not at all. I just did what I enjoyed and what came naturally to me. I never connected anything in my life to crossdressing.

I'm not sure whether or not a person's hobbies or recreational activities are much of an indication of gender identity. I've always been involved in strenuous athletic activities because I enjoy the endorphin rush that they give me. As a youth I played varsity baseball, basketball and football, served in a military unit which required me to jump out of perfectly good airplanes, and lifted heavy weights in the gym. In adult life my avocations and recreational sports have included long distance cycling, downhill skiing, rock climbing, handball, squash, and backpacking on the Appalachian Trail. When I was a young pre-pubescent boy I got a lot of teasing because I had pale skin, dark blonde hair, blue eyes, and lips like cherries, but I never identified with girls' pursuits at that time, so I don't think that my attraction to strenuous sports was due to that. I didn't realize that I am transgender, and bisexual, until I was well into young adulthood.