In the Closet, DADT, She doesn't want this, Need to Know.....

Is crossdressing a sickness or wrong? Opinion seems to be that there is nothing wrong with it.

On one hand crossdressers will say they want more acceptance or that they need to get out so they can be accepted, but then hide in their own homes. We don't only hide in our own homes from people outside the home we hide from people that we live with.
We can say that our wife accepts our dressing but never wants to see us dressed. This is back to hiding in our own home.

As parents we accept our children for who they are. We might not like the boy our daughter dates, but, how would we know if that guy is the daughters true love or soul mate? That is for them to decide. If our child pierced or tattooed their body someplace we thought was not attractive, what would we do? Accept them and live with it, but we are willing to have a grown child dictate what we can do in regards to our innate desires.

It seems from reading many posts, that crossdressers to some degree, want to be controlled and want to remain hidden.

We have all heard the story of Edison and the light bulb and how he had so many failed attempts before he succeeded. How can we determine that because something was discussed before that it cannot be discussed again?

I think that many of these issues boil down to financial security. If a person was financially independent they would live their life the way they wanted. Especially when pertaining to something that was truly ingrained in their innermost being.

I don't think this post/thread is breaking any rules.

I am exploring how I want to live out the rest of my years. It seems that there are people that feel they are the authority or expert on these matters. I do not claim to be nor to I accept self proclaimed authorities as having the correct response. I have been honest and forthright and have posed legitimate questions that are worth consideration.

At this point only a short time after telling my wife that I want to crossdress in public, I am pondering the boundaries that she wanted me to agree to. I am an honest person and I refuse to sneak around behind a person's back. I love her and my family the same regardless of my attire and I am the same person. Why should I have to worry if my daughter a senior in high school got off early before I got home when I return from shopping? Very simple, tell her who I am. She does not have to like it. She can be who she wants to be the rest of her life. I only have a few years left to do that.

Just this moment, my wife asked me what I was doing, and I explained to her and read this post to her.

There is nothing wrong with crossdressing, however that does not mean everyone will accept it.

You have posed a lot of questions here most if not all of which have been answered in the past. This you would know had you taken the time to look.

Thank you for your input.

Hi Billy.

Thank you for the post and the many many questions asked in your post. I too ask myself these same questions over and over again. It's such an incredibly complex subject. I find (like life in general) the more I try to understand it the more the answers become illusive. I always start with the fundamental cause like is it simply a biological cross wiring. Did something happen in our early years that pushed us this way like an experience or programming from outside like T.V./ books etc? or is it Like the comedian Eddie Izzard says it's basically the numbers we drew in the genetic lottery. Could have been gay/bi/hetero straight yadda yadda yadda. Is it spiritual like maybe we agreed to be this way before incarnating so it would push us to be stronger and to grow from a soul perspective?? Believe me I have explored all possibilities, theories, hypothesise and I end up back at the beginning. Like the great Alan Watts once said " trying to understand life is like one trying to bite ones own teeth". Maybe we ain't suppose to figure it out as that would spoil the game? General public will always be directed/driven by the majority. The majority of people are heterosexual folk who enjoy normal sex and are attracted to the opposite sex. They find a partner, have kids and so on. If you are fortunate/unfortunate to have an innate drive that deviates away from this then you will be in a minority. It depends which belief system/brain washing program you come from that depends on the okayness of CDing. If you come from any kind of mainstream religious belief system then you will have some serious moral soul searching to do as you will have been thought that it is wrong. Even if you come from a secular/atheistic belief system there is prob gonna be some form of shame attached as you may perceive it as a weakness. Not necessarily as in being less Macho than most guys but more importantly being less Macho and less less attractive to the other sex. Here lies the crux of the problem. Having been someone who went through a lengthy relationship hiding my dressing I would totally agree with you that being properly in love in a loving relationship would mean total acceptance from your spouse. Some kind of compromise is ok but true love is total acceptance of one another faults and all. My advice, accept that part of yourself try not to think about the future so much, don't take life too seriously and love both yourself and others more it will TRANSform your life I promise!

Billy, I believe u have an excellent message for new arrivals here in your post. When I arrived here after dressing secretly in total privacy for the previous 10 years, I was filled with guilt and self recrimination.:doh:

Then, folks here reminded me; I wasn't hurting anyone or doing anything indecent or illegal by dressing up. :straightface:
It took 8 years, I'm finally past being ashamed of what I do as Sherry. Not exactly proud, but have no regrets. And, I'm out to my ex and 2 daughters, at least. :thumbsup:

My belief is that anything that isn't illegal or dangerous that a couple does to remain happily together is ok! And, is no one else's business or concern but theirs.
Good luck with your family and your dressing!:)

Elliemoss,
Thank you for the thoughtful response. If you have read any of my posts you would recognize they are all dealing with serious issues. I am good with myself and my wife. As mentioned in OP I read this post to my wife prior to posting it. She wanted this secret kept quiet. I told her this morning that I told my son who is totally okay with it. If crossdressing is innate it take second place to my honesty. I refuse to be in a relationship where I am even the slightest bit deceitful. My wife of 22 years know this. I believe we have true love. If she doesn't want to be with me, then she owes it to herself to not be with me. That is no different than if I want to go out in public dressed in woman's clothes, I should do that. Obviously I also understand that she can choose to love me but not ever want to accompany me out in public in women's attire. That is fine. But, I refuse to sneak around my own home or out of the home while she is thinking I am honoring some sort of agreement. If I lived alone I would have no problem walking by the neighbors or out the front door wearing whatever I chose to put on. However I understand that my choices do impact my wife and how she may feel if one of her acquaintances sees me in public. Honestly the easiest best thing for me is for her to just acknowledge to her friends that Billy likes to crossdress. Then it is over. I doubt her friends would think any less of her but I could be wrong. Furthermore, I would not expect her to tell her friends and I would be happy to frequent places that meeting people would be unlikely. Honestly, I grew up in this town and was gone for 25 years. I have been back here for 13 and rarely do I ever run into someone I know while out in public. Regardless of any of that, I just want honesty and acceptance in my home with my loved ones.

You seem to have very black and white ideas about something that isn't black and white. You say your wife is limiting you and you don't like it. So you say you have the right? to flaunt her boundaries? Your feelings trump hers? And you say it is true love. No one can argue your definition of true love but some may question how you can discount (or think you should be able to) her feelings. Marriages aren't cut and dried, there is a lot of give and take. If you don't like her parameters, negotiate new ones. But she has the right to counter such.

Many times here people argue "honesty". Should you be totally honest with everything in your marriage? Do you really want or need to know every detail of your wife's life, past or present? ("gee honey I love you but I ALWAYS fantasize that you are Channing Tatum when we are together") That would hurt wouldn't it? So details like that aren't said, usually. And there are varying levels of acceptance. Most members here would say you have a very accepting SO. You probably agree, but she also has fears and qualms about you and her lives. Once again, you don't know what she's thinking. My wife had one rule "don't embarrass me". It was simple for me to live that way, but other spouses have greater fears; their circle of friends, their families, their social position or business reputation. You cannot discount these because you "want" something. You have to compromise.

Sure in a perfect world with perfect love, your SO would not set barriers. But the world isn't perfect. People have different perspectives. What you see isn't what they see (the old three blind men and the elephant fable). The world is small, you will eventually meet someone you know. Denver has more than a 700K people (about three times that for the metro area) and yet, it isn't unusual for me to meet someone I know while out shopping. Gordon Lightfoot had a song called "The Circle is Small" and that's true. Unless you break every habit you have while out, you will meet someone. And when you meet someone, the chances they will tell a friend, even if NOT being mean, is high. My wife did tell at least some of her friends about me; one we found out had a CD spouse of their own. But we negotiated that she could tell.

Most here will empathize with you on many counts. We are, after all, a "sorority" of sorts. Most of our stories mirror others here. In that many here will give opinions that you may not agree with but they are from experience. Bones in the pile so to speak. I think most here will agree though that early in your quest you need to slow down and tread carefully. Yeah, it's a whole new world full of promise and brightness. But the are pitfalls. You mention if your wife didn't like it she was free to leave. I think you would be very hurt if she did. Thus negotiation is a wiser idea.

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Originally Posted by Billy

...At this point only a short time after telling my wife that I want to crossdress in public, I am pondering the boundaries that she wanted me to agree to.

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Originally Posted by Billy

I am an honest person and I refuse to sneak around behind a person's back. ...

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In other words, you refuse to sneak around her back NOW. You DID sneak around prior to telling her. You WERE dishonest, right? I am an advocate of telling one's wife, I have been writing that for 5+ years now but that is AFTER I told my wife of 20+ years. I am certainly not holier than anyone.

What is the conclusion of your narrative? Are you writing a diary? I can't follow your ramblings.

I kinda don't really care for how the original post painted all of us with the same brush and made sweeping generalizations about our community. I don't hide in my own home. My wife sees me dressed all the time. I absolutely do NOT want to be controlled or remain hidden. But thanks for pre-judging me.

Billy, there are as many reasons as members plus as to why someone may be closeted! I have been out once to get a wig. I am closeted by my own wish for now! I really have no one to answer to but I feel responsibility! I am a male nurse at a long term care facility. If I were to appear dressed as a female nurse it would confuse my residents most of whom are older than me. I do not want to upset them! That is just my story, there are many others with varying stories! It is not all black and white nor rosy clouds! Hugs Lana Mae PS: Billy, keep asking your questions as they stimulate thought!!

My wife can do whatever she pleases. She does not need my permission. Neither I nor her have the right to set boundaries for the other person in our own home. I have unconditional love for her and respect her opinion and feelings. I cannot in good conscience in any way deceive her.
I purchased panties and pantyhose for me and her. Prior to the arrival, I told my wife that I wanted to wear panties full time and pantyhose at will.
After pantyhose and panties arrived I decided one day that I was going out in a dress and pantyhose. I did and went shopping.
The next day I told my wife.
I am honest.
The day I told her she wanted me to keep it our secret and not go out in public.

The problem with the "if she really loves me" thing is WHO she fell in love with, or thought she did. If we are fully honest with someone in the beginning, but they decide later on that in order to stay with them we must stop, or change, then yeah, maybe the love argument holds more water.

When WE are dishonest about who we really are, we married or are with a committed partner under false pretenses. They married or committed to the person we projected. WE change that and when they have serious issues about it, it isn't from a lack of love, but from our lack of honesty.

Until a month ago I never had the thought of going out in public.
I have on occasion worn pantyhose throughout our marriage. She was aware of that and even purchased some fishnets bodysuits for us in previous years.
The man she married was a person that always promoted for her to do what she wanted and be who she wants to be.
That is my philosophy for everyone in this household, children included.
I believe our love in unconditional. Because of the honesty and sincere love and devotion.

"It seems from reading many posts, that crossdressers to some degree, want to be controlled and want to remain hidden."

This statement is so far of the truth I almost choked on it.

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Originally Posted by Billy

Is crossdressing a sickness or wrong? Opinion seems to be that there is nothing wrong with it.

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That really depends upon who you ask. HERE, you're going to find that none of us feel that there's anything wrong with it. If you ask the same question :edit: another area :edit: you'll more likely get an entirely different answer. JHMO.

Billy. I can honestly relate to every thing you say in your post. There are and always will be, other people who influence our lives. Some we can choose to ignore. Some though who matter enough that we temper, or even alter our own lives and personal desires, ambitions, because being part of there lives, ultimately brings us more that simply reaching out for our personal goals.

Enjoy who you are . But be sure..... before you break bonds that could support you untill you leave this wonderful word.

Jane,
Thank you for your reply.
I have no intention of breaking any bonds. My wife and I developed a remarkable relationship many years ago and have always accepted each other. Love is what makes the bond and nothing has ever challenged that love. I will do nothing to embarrass or demean her. I am simply trying to be honest in the relationship.

Billy, there is a fine line you are crossing when you take your fashion choices into the real world. Like it or not (and right or wrong), this thing of ours tends to embarrass our SO's to the point where a point in negotiation often becomes "not in our backyard", whether explicitly stated or not.

Regardless of our motivations for presenting as a female, or in feminine clothing, this is precisely why many of us have a no-fly zone which encircles where we live and often where we work as well. It also defines many of us as technically being in the closet despite a significant out & about presence.

By following through with your declaration that you wish to take this on the road, you are breaking barriers. But in doing so, make no mistake that those you love will endure the fallout. You may be comfortable in your own skin and have come to terms with how you wish to present yourself to the outside world for the rest of your days but is does your family share the same level of comfort? Are they prepared to deal with the potential backlash from the community, however little or tremendous it might be? Do they even wish to do so? This is where the love you describe will be tested beyond your wildest imagination. Even your daughter isn't old enough to be immune. Is she going to stand proudly at your side if you show up at her HS graduation in five months or so wearing a skirt & heels?

Sara,
I agree with you. I am not looking to embarrass my family or take out a full page of disclosure in the local paper. If you look at all the questions/issues I have addressed in threads in should be evident that I would be concerned about these issues also. I spend most of my time at home. I live in a town with several big grocery stores. If I were to go shopping I would go 5 miles further to another town. My issues are hiding in my own home. Worried when I get home my daughter might see me. Just last night I went to the casino to play poker. Before I got home I texted my daughter which I rarely ever do. I asked her, "are you home." Her reply, "no I will be soon." My reply, "when." Her reply, "home now." Hmm that puts me in a little predicament. I did have a male shirt that blends with the female slacks I wore. So I changed my shirt, went into the house into my bedroom and changed my clothing. Too much stress to deal with.

Furthermore, my wife's elderly parents were living out of the country and their health was failing. They are US citizens and moved abroad 4 years ago. I encouraged my wife to have them come back to live with us again. When they arrived they couldn't walk. Mother has Parkinsons, osteoporosis, and some other issues. She was 80 or more pounds overweight. I put her on a low carb diet and she has lost over 20 lbs in less than 3 months and now she walks without any device. Father has lost 10lbs and is stable but needs to lose more. I shower the parents twice a week and am the reason they are not bed ridden. They live full time with us. I don't want to hide my dressing from any person in this home. I add value to each of their lives.

Billy, a wife may not like that her husband crossdresses, but if she accepts his need to do it, knows he does it in private, and asks that she not see it, then it's not sneaking and hiding. It's respecting her wish and accommodating both his need to crossdress and her need to not see it.
I can dress at home in front of my wife but nobody else, or dress in private -she knows I do that. The "don't embarrass me" rule guides my activities: I don't go out in my home town, but I do when safely far away. I am not open to others (family, friends, workplace) as to my true identity. I go out but I have not come out and don't intend to.
Sorry to be so blunt, but I believe your "total honesty" is your excuse to get your way. Your need to be open because not doing so is dishonest overrides how it may affect others. Too bad for them, huh? At least you can live with yourself, which literally may be best.

Actually my wife doesn't have a problem seeing me dressed. I modeled online purchases for her opinion. After initially telling her that I wanted to crossdress, she wanted me to keep it a secret and not go out in public. I told my son because I am certain he would see panties while we were working. I told her that our son knows. She knows I purchased women's shoes at DSW for the purpose of wearing them in public and she knows the slacks I picked up were something that were dressy and could be worn when we went out. She also said she would help me pick out some tops to go with the slacks. I will not sneak out in public without her knowing. My concern is having her parents or my daughter see me.

Billy,
Again you are posing all these questions and making sweeping statements before you appear to have decided where you want to be with your dressing needs. You are putting too many words in other people's mouths by assuming they accept you because you are totally honest. Please take care because I can see it all going pear shaped !

And, I'm getting confused by much of what u wrote. U won't hide in your own home, but u r?

And, u go out 1/2 dressed and it's all good but told your wife u wouldn't without her knowing? I don't believe u r a troll, but like Teresa says, u r all over the place in your posts and where you're going with your dressing!:eek:

Point of the post is many people crossdress and hide and try to keep it secret. I see that as a big burden. I am not ashamed of what I want to wear. I will address this with my wife and come to an agreement that we can live with. I have made posts and or threads in regards to how unfair it is for men and the limitations they have for dressing. Those posts were deleted and met with answers like this has been discussed before. I have decided to do something in my life to address this and wear what I think is comfortable without the fear or concern of getting caught.

Agree with me or not there are many posts/threads on this forum from people worried about getting caught, being seen, leaving something out, somebody finding out..... and on and on. Whey live with the burden of secrecy if you can live in freedom?

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Originally Posted by Billy

Whey live with the burden of secrecy if you can live in freedom?

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Maybe they like having a SO and can compromise to keep her(him)? Personally, if my wife had dietary restrictions that effected her beliefs, I wouldn't skirt them just for my own pleasure. It's called respect. Seems you are asking for it but not willing to give it

As mentioned numerous times my wife has all my respect and can do whatever she wishes/desires. She is her own person. Whatever she does is okay with me. She does not need nor has she ever had to answer to me. All true statements. There has never been a need for lying because people can do what they want. That is why one day after going out I told her straight out. No secrets in this relationship.

There are times my beautiful wife gets dolled up to the 10's, and she is beautiful, and she goes out with her friends dancing. Somebody they met I assume a guy sometimes gives them tickets to concerts. I guess he is a high roller and gets comped tickets for free. I think he has been at the concerts before. If my wife wants to go out she has my blessing. If she wants or needs something from me, I drop what I am doing and do what she is asking.

Very few disagreements in 22 more like 23 years of marriage. Respect? I have nothing but respect for my wife.

I have no issue with my wife or the relationship and think she has no issue either.

It seems like the underlying tone is that I cannot have what I want without her sacrificing herself. Can a person that lives alone have what they want? I read of people with grown children have concern for their grown children finding out about them. I won't have to live with that.

I do not try and never had tried to control what any person does. I have taught children from an early age to make their own educated decisions and live with the results. I am here to stay and I will keep you posted but I expect that all this will be in the open and a loving relationship will endure.

People say take it slow. Honesty cannot be slowed down. Obviously tactful communication is key but honesty is king.

If you really think there is nothing wrong with your choice of crossdressing, why hide it? Embrace it and live life.

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Originally Posted by Billy

If you really think there is nothing wrong with your choice of crossdressing and believe you cannot stop, why hide it? Embrace it and live life.

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Billy I believe there is absolutely nothing wrong with Crossdressing and I do embrace it. BUT I also choose to keep most of Becky private. There are many reasons for this none of which have anything to do with embarrassment or shame.

We do not live in a vacuum, what we do impacts on others. When deciding whether or not to tell or not tell my wife, children, wider family etc. I have taken their feelings into account as well as my work and career.

What I see in your post is all about you, before you told you son did you take any time to think about how he will feel when he hears his dad wants to put on a dress and go out? Have you actually asked your wife how she feels about your dressing. You seem to believe that because a person is accepting everything is good. You say honesty is king, that is your belief and your right, but is there a possibility you are leaving a wreck of damaged feelings of others behind you?

You would have to know my son. He is one of a kind. I am confident that he is 100% fine with it. He trusts me as I do him. He knows he is his own man and I am me. He has been raised since a little boy to speak his mind and always does. He is well respected. My wife obviously has to deal with issues that has caught her by surprise to some extent. She has known as previously mentioned about my desire to wear pantyhose. This woman is incredible just as my son. We are who we are. If we cannot be honest with the people that are closest to us then who can we be honest with. As mentioned I am not going to the rooftops to proclaim my crossdressing and I will crossdress with discretion but I do not want to worry about people in this household finding out.

I respect where you are coming from Billy and I think that those who are responding are trying to give you the best advice possible, even if it is perceived that you are sometimes all over the map :).

I'm trying to figure out where you and I are different aside from the root cause of our wishing to present as female. I guess the difference is how we deal with it. While I have my own endgame to someday disclose this part of my being to my children, the purpose of that will not be to present as a female in their presence. I've been dealing with my gender issues for my entire life and running around in a dress around my kids is not part of my master plan. in all honesty, all I want from such disclosure is for them to understand why there are certain things which are "off" in terms of my daily look compared to gender norms. I would like to be honest about my outings without any need for subterfuge. I want them to understand what makes me tick without having to put it in their face.

On the other hand, you are kind of tripping me out. Seems you are a late-onset CD'er which in and of itself is something that is difficult for me to compute despite a couple of my dearest friends fitting that definition. I guess I have had a lifetime of experiences and coming to terms with who I am that leads me to where I am which seems to be quite different to your approach. Bottom line, you know yourself. You know your family. You know whether your 5 mile no-fly zone is sufficient (in my neck of the woods, 25+ miles seems to work better). Yes, honesty is a virtue and no one will fault you for any lack of disclosure. But Becky said it very well in that everything we do impacts others. Honesty coupled with the actions we desire to take still makes for the potential for significant fallout down the road. My fear is that we are witnessing the actions which might be leading to more significant discussions in the future.

Sara,
I agree with you. If you got the impression that I want to flaunt my dressing in front of my children I am sorry for that. I don't think I said that anywhere. I think I stated a concern that my daughter could get home from school early maybe before I get home and that would not be a good scene if she didn't know. I don't want the stress of trying to rush home to hide. The other day I was shopping 30 minutes from home and I was worried I might not get home before her. I would not go to her graduation dressed in women's clothing. I believe I stated somewhere that I would use discretion. Obviously I would not show up at my wife's place of employment for a lunch date in women's clothing. I don't really understand the pushback or problem here. Why would people be resistant to being in the open?

Thanks for clarifying. I think your basic motivations are starting to make sense. You and I seem to have more similarity when it comes to family than not.

Sara,
I highlighted some points in my posts. It would only take a minute to see what I was trying to say. I am not judging anyone else.