WHY questions???????????

I told my SO, I had a post brewing on this subject. I have been trying to construct it in my mind for a while now. I would post this just in the FAB forum, but to be honest, I never see hardly anyone in there. I think it is interesting that I read a lot of posts from CD’ers looking for the answer to the “why” question.
Why do I want to Crossdress?
Why do I want to feel like a woman?
Why am I like this? What made me this way?
Why can’t I stop?
I have my own “why” question…why do I seem to have a different reaction than most women to their SO’s cross dressing? I mean like deep down, really, REALLY different. I found out about my husbands CD-ing, a month before we got married. Not ONCE did I consider not going through with the wedding. I honestly don’t care if he cross dresses. I don’t care if he dresses with me, or without me, I don’t care if he buys things with me, or without me, I don’t care if he dresses in bed, (or on a train or in a boat, sorry that started to sound kind of Dr. Seuse-ish!!LOL)
So…I am sure you are wondering then why ask why? If it isn’t broke don’t fix it. Well, for one thing, I would really like to help other people accept this about their spouse, and I feel like I need to dissect my own feelings to try to share with them why they should not mind this activity. Why is this such a big deal? I want to scream “OPEN YOUR MINDS!!!”
I have had a really difficult life. I know a lot of people say that, but when I tell others’ of the things I have gone through, they usually are in disbelief that that much horrible crap could happen to one person!!!
A few of the horrible things ( and trust me, this is a consolidated list) is:

*My CD husband….stayed with me after my son had a horrible accident and was seriously injured with life threatening injuries, just months after we started dating (again since High school) He was in the hospital almost five months. Most men would have RAN FOR THE HILLS!!!!
*I was sexually molested as a child by a sibling.
*My mother was a raging alcoholic and was physically, mentally and emotionally abusive to me.
*My first husband cheated on me with a family member WHILE WE WERE TRYING TO CONCEIVE and got HER pregnant! ….yea nuff said about that!
*My second husband went mentally insane during our marriage, I left, and was in hiding when he attacked me in front of our children with a knife.
I know these things give me a different perspective on what is acceptable in a marriage..but geez!! Do these other SO’s have no secrets? No Issues? No Insecurities? Do they not have things that need to be considered? Are they not victims of some kind of abuse that needs consideration….do they not have any kind of kink? Or personality traits that could cause pause? Do they not have their own form of self expression?
When you have a marriage…it is two people coming together…AS THEY ARE-accepting each other and promising to stand next to one another! ISN’T THAT THE FREAKING POINT??????
OKAY, I get it, this(CD’ing) is a little out of the box, BUT is it one of the FORBIDDEN FOUR A’S?
ABANDONMENT?
ABUSE?
ADULTERY?
ADDICTION?
I want to offer perspective.
Is this just a way for SO’s to have power?
If it is not the 4 A’s shouldn’t it be open negotiation?


I know people are going to TEAR ME UP for this, but here is my WHY question……WHY do I think this is really no big deal?? Is it? In the big scheme of things?

Wow greeneyes, well said, I have a GF that accepts me for me. I went though a lot of relationship and had a lot of problems like you did. However I found a good soul and am happy with her and yes I crossdress and am gender fluid and a bit non binary. But in the scheme of things I accept her as she has some metal issues but is really good to me and has never said an abusing word. She goes to the VA and has support from there. But I found a gold nugget and she is great.

I think I'm gonna hold my tongue on this and let the rest of the community respond.

I am sorry for what you had to go through. I know another prominent GG here has also a hard life - maybe that helps put things into perspective that other GGs lack.
That there are much worse things in life and having a loving, devoted human who you can bring happiness to, is all that matters.
While the FAB section would be best, maybe those who have a supportive SO can chime in here if that SO also had a rough past life?
Hugs, Ellen

Greeneyes,

First off, I see no reason that anyone would tear you up. It's a great post. Second off, they'll have to go through Joni and me first!

Wow, you HAVE had some rough experiences. And I typically see two reactions to a life like that. One is to build a huge wall and be cynical, the other is to do what you have done, and learn what is important in life, and see value and beauty where it exists. Frankly, I think you get it so much more because of your experience.

I think that so much of people's prejudices are just based in fear and ignorance. We fear what wh don't know, and default to what we've been taught when in doubt. It's easy. For most it is the fear of what others think, of rejection, all the way to harm. We imagine the worst, which may never come to pass. And there is enough input and examples to duel this fire.

But you've been there, you know the danger because you faced it. Cross Dressing? That's nothing. A man with a knife, now THAT'S a problem.

So we what to know why, because everyone else questions it. It's our way of defending ourselves. And maybe if we know why, we can do "something" about it. Maybe we think if we know why, then we are in control of our selves. But control is more of an illusion than we realize.

WOW!!! This should REALLY BE A STICKIE!!!!

Why you don't think it is a big deal...... perhaps because you are emotionally attracted to him as an individual despite his gender presentation.

Greeneyes If I were in the same room I would give you a big hug and say thank you for saying what you did in your post.
More GG's need to stop worrying about themselves and at least try to look at gender issues and CDing from their SO's side.
I have been thru violent situations and witnessed pretty horrific things and I'm thankful to just be alive so gender issues seem trivial in comparison.
Gender issues are important but not something you can't work thru with your spouse or SO.
GGs that loose it over their man wearing a piece of womens clothing have serious issues IMO.

I had a similar life as you but as a guy. If you ask me, I think if you have a hard life you appreciate things more and can look past the window dressing. If you have someone that loves you and wants to be with you who cares...like you said. I feel the same way about my wife, but she doesn't always see it the same way.

Greeneyes,

No one should have to experience abuse as you did. It does seem that it has helped form your perspective on life and what's truly important and I say that without in any way seeking to down play those events it in some way formulated your views on life.

From my perspective I would ask of any SO who rails against their CD'ing partner, okay tell me just how his dressing has adversely affected your life? Did the cost of crude oil go up, did the stock market collapse, food in the supermarkets get more expensive? If the answer is no, which it will be, how has this knowledge adversely affected your life. If as Greeneyes posts, you accept it for what it is, it's probably as significant as someone switching loyalty in an election year.

At this point I need to be honest. I'm deeply, deeply in the closet. So why, if all it takes is such a simple argument to ensure the continued stability of my relationship with my SO, do I not out myself? Why, because people don't always respond to the most logical of arguments. Heart rules head. Logic does not always prevail. Hence I haven't the courage of my convictions as I fear the potential loss so greatly.

I believe that as a closet CD'er I have never done something that has materially affected our relationship. There are some that will argue it's akin to having an extra marital relationship, cheating. Or that it's just a down right lie. Technically it's not a lie I've never been asked do you CD but that's being pedantic, splitting hairs. I truly believe that where we are in our relationship now is where we would be if I'd never put on a pair of tights or knickers. We would both be the same people.

So this brings us back to Greeneyes point. In reality what makes an SO balk at the news of her spouse CD'ing isn't the true impact it has on their lives more the perception of society that such activities are wrong, in the same way being gay was considered wrong. What really counts is just how well a partner treats their SO. If all was well before then what's really changed? It wasn't broke so why fix it. As I said, heart doesn't always rule head.

So this brings us back to Greeneyes point.

Put me in the give-you-a-hug-first queue with Tracii. Thanks so much for opening up here. It means a lot that you want to ask honest questions and actually know the answers; that's the opposite of prejudice.

I think some people who suffer traumatic events, especially multiple ones such as you have, go in one of two or three directions.

They can withdraw into anger and cynicism and resentment (why did life do all of this to me?) and live out pretty miserable lives in which they're unhappy with themselves (maybe blame themselves as well) and unable to form healthy relationships with others, whether simply friendships or intimate relationships. They do not love themselves and can't really love others.

They can escape into drink and drugs and reckless behaviors, become fatalistic and give up on ever making the most of life. These lives are tragic and often end all too early.

Or, they can accept that they've survived all of that, after all, and still want to search for goodness and kindness and happiness by digging deep inside and finding a well of courage that I think we all have, if only we would look for it and embrace it. That sounds like you.

I can tell you this: if you have a male SO who crossdresses and you want to love him and forge a strong bond, it's right there in front of you. He has been dealing with one of the most horrific curveballs that our gendered human existence can throw at anyone, and if he's lovable and good to you, you guys are rounding third and headed for home.

My wife of 13 years was sexually abused by her father when she was very young, and it affected her approach to bonding and sex and just about everything, but she is smart and strong and good-hearted in the extreme; she overcame it. Her first husband fathered their two wonderful middle-aged sons, but neither of them has much use for his overbearing, know-it-all, contrary personality. Her second husband became a crossdresser in his 50s, which is very unusual, and was involving her in his gay fantasies in a way that was really abusing her good nature. They raised her sons and his son together from elementary-school age, but she was near the end of her rope when I entered their lives through the Yahoo CD group he was leading with her administrative help.

In me, she found a middle-aged woman whom she knew to be biologically male, someone who was not in the Yahoo group looking for a wife, and somehow we fell in love. She had questions. We talked for hours with the candor that advanced age encourages. Two years after we met, we tied the knot in front of a half-dozen friends and have never looked back. I am fluid, willing to present a male persona as needed, but she knows where my heart is and cuts me enormous slack.

The "whys"? Most likely prenatal hormonal anomalies that mis-wire our brains. Some get a little mis-wired, some get totally mis-wired. Some get their gender identity centers mis-wired, some get their sexual orientation centers mis-wired, and some get both. It is the only biological hypothesis that explains how this behavior happens and why there are so many variations. So we can't help being like this. But we do have considerable ability to understand it and accept it and make sound choices in meaningful lives despite it.

I think there are dozens, hundreds, of members here who wish their SOs were as willing to try to understand and go forward as you are. Welcome.:hugs:

It is no big deal, I couldn't agree with you more. The problem is (as you know so very well), life isn't that simple. There are all kinds of layers that make this issue different for so many different people. One thing (and I was certainly guilty of this), many of us keep or kept this part of us a secret. Therefore, many spouses feel that something was withheld from them. That, and not the CDing, is what I feel the most guilt about (and my wife could not be more accepting). I hid a big part of myself from my wife for a very long time. Anyway, what do I know.

Besides the rare "against my religious beliefs" reason, I think that the majority of negative reactions are because of the SO's own insecurities, including what will others think. Having to deal with real bad situations, as others have already said, helps one be better able to separate the wheat from the chaff and focus on what is important. I understand the need to get over the initial shock and all. However, if they still say that they love their CD partner, then it is their obligation, yes, obligation, to make every effort to try to understand their CD and to make the marriage work. No, they do not have to stay in that relationship, but before they decide to make the other's life miserable, they owe it to that love to try.

Do you really want to know the biggest reason "Why?". It is actually fairly simple. You had a choice. You chose to stay. You weren't coerced, you weren't forced, you weren't tricked by your partner saying they could give up, you could have easily left (you have already shown your ability to do that previously in your life) but you chose to stay. Everything else after that is just you taking responsibility for that choice.

Don't get me wrong, you are obviously strong, resilient, responsible, caring. And all of those qualities that you have and more have helped you in dealing with consequences of that choice to stay. Just remember though for various reasons many partners never got a choice and this can be horribly disempowering.

This is a great post and I wish I could show it to my SO. There are so many worse things in life but I am not sure that will matter.

I know my SO and she has problems seeing anything but the worst in things. And I have dealt with some BAD things in our relationship. But maybe CDing is why I put up with them.

Regardless, it sounds like you are fairly enlightened and see things as they are. Others have been taught by society to think we are weird and my experience is a lot of women want MEN. Manly Men.

Kate, I agree with you. The insecurities that I mentioned include the possible need to start a new life separated and that can be very scary for a mature woman. A choice she may not be prepared to take. In this case, by reacting negatively they are actually increasing the possibility of a future separation because they may be creating additional friction and problems by their own inability to try to look at the situation in a more mature manner. A sad vicious circle for all.

great post I will take issue with the 4 A. CDing could be called an addiction. since so many of us have tried to stop and then we go right back to it. As addictions go it isn't so bad and I tend to warn other CD's when they get an accepting SO to not go crazy and to keep the CDing in perspective with the rest of their life.
I know that I have had days where I just wanted to dress very badly and couldn't and there are other days when I dress and I don't get into it at all and feel ridiculess.
Green eyes thanks for your post

Please just be a little cautious Allie about the unconscious judgement that can come across particularly in your last post. "Insecurities" and looking at the situation in a "more mature manner" are actually quite insulting as a woman. Those insecurities that you talk about are far from it, they are often very real and significant concerns regarding the health, well being and safety of the woman and her loved ones. If a woman makes the choice to leave then where will she live? What will happen to her children? How will she get them to school if the family only has one car? How will she pay for them to go to school? How will she get to work safely? How will she get home safely? Who will look after her children when she is at work and they are at home? What about her pets? What will she do with them? How will she access money if she does not have her own accounts? Should she lie to people, to family and friends when they ask her why she left her husband in order to protect his right to privacy? All these concerns and many more arise. They are far from insecurities, they are very real threats and dangers to her and her loved ones.

Now not all men are assholes and very few of even the rabid misogynists would physically harm her or her loved ones. Nor are women immune to doing things like emptying bank accounts or changing locks on doors. I have however seen innumerable threads on this forum urging members to protect their assets in response to a partner appearing to be at the point of leaving. A majority of physical and sexual abuse is instigated by men against women. These are statistics and unfortunately they do not lie.

So the women who does not leave a relationship despite not being happy doesn't necessarily do so because she is insecure or immature. She is in all likelihood concerned about the very real possibility of putting at risk the physical safety of herself and her loved ones. That isn't a choice.

A lot of SO don't understand CDing not because of the four A's ,or for fear of the four A's but more because they think CDing is about the Big G, a lot of gg that I speak to always say how can someone be straight and wear womans clothing ,or dress like a woman and be into girls

Greeneyes,
The last thing in the world that I would do would be to tear you up in any way. You have certainly been through a lot and I am happy for you that you have found a person who cares for you. I also admire your perspective. Are us crossdressers a bit unusual? Yes, of course we are. And it takes someone with an open mind and heart to accept us as we are. Thank you for you being you.

My wife doesn't think it's a big deal. It's just a thing. Maybe you are not so different

Wow Greeneyes you have certainly had more than your share of heartache, perhaps that gives you a much better perspective on what is important.

In many cases the fear of fear can be bigger than the actual fear, so perhaps some are scared of the unknown, scared of being seen as married to someone weird or different, perhaps they fear ridicule from peers, all of these fears are nothing compared to what you have been through. But maybe people who have had much less trauma in their lives could see their crossdressing husbands as one of the worst things that has happened to them. The classic lament, I married a man.

Also the fear that their husband will change and want to be a woman and a man who dresses sometimes.

why do you think this is no big deal? You married the person, you love the person, nothing else matters. Your 4A's define the rules for yourselves as a couple. I could start a dodgy debate about how many folks married the right person for the right reasons, but for me, love is all there is, the only good reason, and one robust enough to get us through.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greeneyes

Do these other SO’s have no secrets? No Issues? No Insecurities? Do they not have things that need to be considered? Are they not victims of some kind of abuse that needs consideration….do they not have any kind of kink? Or personality traits that could cause pause? Do they not have their own form of self expression?
When you have a marriage…it is two people coming together…AS THEY ARE-accepting each other and promising to stand next to one another! ISN’T THAT THE FREAKING POINT??????

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In an earnest attempt to answer this bit in particular.
Greeneyes, you would be surprised to learn of just how sheltered and naive some people are.
A line from an old Vandals song springs to mind "If life could be like they see it on TV, they wouldn't have to hurt so bad" (Too much Drama, The Vandals).
People often grow up with a television that raises them. All of their world perspective is transmitted to them, edited and perfected. Scripted and played out.
Rarely will any TV drama show any couple stay together when the going gets tough.
It's always divorce, disease or death (Three Ds for your four As).
People seem to forget that the vows you make don't only apply "as long as it suits you".
The whole idea of marriage (at least to me) is to stay with it even through the challenges.
Because ultimately, when you triumph over adversity, especially together, you only grow together, as a team, as friends and lovers.
And yeah, that takes an open mind, but that's what most media is terrified of you developing.
A mind outside the herd. Because if you can think for yourself, then they can't tell you what you should do.
They can't tell you which medication to buy, which makeup to wear, which insurance to carry...

Maybe I've gone a little far here.

I'm happy you can approach this with an open mind and love.
You're a good woman.
Don't let the *******s get you down xx

Hugs from me as well, Greeneyes! Your post was such a delight to read this morning! My wife is a treasure, and i would do nothing to put life with her in jeopardy. While she doesn't understand my attraction to all things feminine (as most such adornments don't interest her much at all), she is also totally supportive and a totally committed partner in life. We have always been open and honest about everything, except this. Other than perhaps 4 or 5 stolen hours in our 20+ years together did I allow my desire to dress become manifest. About 5 years ago a crossdressing character appeared on a TV series we started watching together and it spurred the diclosure. She was immediately supportive, explaining that although she didn't understand the desire, it didn't matter to her. Our only concern was that my dressing should never be allowed to put a wall up between our son, daughter-in-law, and our grandchildren. Your support for your SO is so beautiful, and this thread you started has brought me near to tears. Thank you for posting your story.

Hey Greeneyes, I'm sorry you had to endure all that. That much experience could fill several lifetimes. From what I have observed, people like you, people who go through such life-changing events and live to tell about them honestly and straightforwardlyt have their opinions, and moreover priorities, changed. I knew a girl who was molested in her early teens and she went on to become one of the most honest and beautiful people I ever knew. My first girlfriend's father was mentally abusive to his family; to this day she is the only person who knows about my crossdressing, and few weeks back she told me she didn't care at the time, she accepted me that way. It made me me, to paraphrase her.

What I'm trying to say here and from those few comments that you posted, is that you are a person who doesn't shy away from tough situations and you see people how they are, and more importantly, accept them; not how they fit into a singular worldview. You value different things, things that are truly important to a marriage. You have had terrible things happen to you and that didn't bring you to your knees. Not many people are like that. But that doesn't mean you are alone in this.

At the end of the day, your post filled me with hope. If there are people like you or my exgirlfriend, there are definitely more out there. Maybe they are not vocal about it, but they do their part in supporting other people. Thank you!

Greeneyes,
I too want to join that queue of members who just wants to give you a big hug. You really have had much more suffering than any person should have to endure.
Forgive me if I'm repeating what others have already said. Helen's post especially spoke to me. I found myself thinking "Yes!" to almost every line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greeneyes

I have my own “why” question…why do I seem to have a different reaction than most women to their SO’s cross dressing? I mean like deep down, really, REALLY different.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by greeneyes

I have had a really difficult life. I know a lot of people say that, but when I tell others’ of the things I have gone through, they usually are in disbelief that that much horrible crap could happen to one person!!!

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I think, that you've sorta answered your own question. You've had a difficult life but it has made you stronger and more insightful and more compassionate. And it has given you perspective! Most of us could be accurately accused of being "drama queens" who react to every difficulty as if it's the end of the world when, in fact, it is just a difficulty. In my experience those, like yourself, who have experienced real hardship react in one of two ways. Either they become bitter and develop a 'chip on their shoulder' (we've a couple of those on here!) or they develop real understanding of what's important and what's not! You clearly belong to the latter group. And it's your understanding of what's really important that causes you to have a different reaction. You've grown up; you're not a teenager any more, neither physically nor emotionally. Unfortunately, most so-called adults are, emotionally, merely overgrown teenagers with all the attendant insecurities. And that's why they react badly to anything that doesn't fit their worldview.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greeneyes

I know people are going to TEAR ME UP for this, but here is my WHY question……WHY do I think this is really no big deal?? Is it? In the big scheme of things?

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Nobody has any business "tearing you up" for anything that you've said. Anyone who attempts to is motivated by envy and immaturity. Pay no heed to them.

Quote:

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I know people are going to TEAR ME UP for this, but here is my WHY question……WHY do I think this is really no big deal?? Is it? In the big scheme of things?

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Because you realize that in the grand scheme of life ... it really is no big deal. You have been through so much that this to you is a tiny issue. You have the ability to see the person you love no matter what he wears or how he acts. You see the Big Picture where he is concerned and that is no small feat.

Greeneys, I'm not going to even read the comments that follow your post. The answer is plain and simple. The guy loves you! And, you know it! I would venture a guess and say you're a strong woman. Your list of trials testing you is extensive. It's more than any woman or man should endure.

I've been married for forty-five years. Before our marriage my wife did allude to some of the events on your that she has on her list. The problem? She will not confront those issues, and, it slobs over onto me. I get to pick up the pieces because she does not want to seek help. She knows she needs help.

One of the things that runs through my mind is a comment she made during "the talk." She said that she would not have married me had she known I was a crossdresser. That's interesting too because we sort of came to that conclusion together. She knows my inner self that attracted her has not changed over the years. My love has not diminished. It has only grew. She has acknowledged some of her shortcoming which she feels probably are due to her insecurities brought on by events before I knew her.

I think back to when she unloaded her soul months before we married or even before I proposed. I think most men would have "run for the hills," "dumped her" or plain said she has too many problems. So, the end result? She would have liked that I or any husband would not like to wear women's clothing, but, just accept her as she is and not the person she could have really become. There are none of the 4 A's in our marriage.

I've been asking for a long time on this forum the same question you proposed. I've never gotten a straight answer from a woman. Saying the woman should have had the choice to continue the relationship after disclosure really is skirting the issue. If the guys was such a dream catch why did crossdressing want you throw him back into the sea?

The negotiating part is "Don't Ask, Don't Tell." It really suggests to me that many women who will not accept this aspect of her husband's being is really uncomfortable with the thought of doing without the other benefits of marriage.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greeneyes

I have my own “why” question…why do I seem to have a different reaction than most women to their SO’s cross dressing?
but here is my WHY question……WHY do I think this is really no big deal?? Is it? In the big scheme of things?

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We had many comments, but I am not sure we focused on greeneyes' question?
Why is she different? Stephanie47's wife had issues but cannot tolerate it.
Dana44 mentioned a supportive GF that has mental issues and gets support from VA.

So it may be that greeneyes faced up to those horrors and came away resilient, and that is why she is different (and perfect)?
Do we have comments to support or negate that?
Hugs, Ellen

I really appreciate everyone's response. I have been through it! I thought that a lot of people would question my motive. I really just wanted to open up a dialog. I also thought if any other wives or girlfriends read that maybe it would help them realize it really isn't a big deal. I do understand that if a woman finds out years into the relationship, that causes a breakdown of trust. You all are correct about one thing...I really love my Cross dresser! Joni would have to do one of the four A's to make me think of going anywhere!
Sallee, I am not sure this is an addiction, I see what you're talking about, and I have seen the pink fog.....but it isn't exactly the same as alcoholism, drug or sex addiction. I guess you could be a crossdresser AND a sex addict, but they are not connected IMO. I do not think any 12 step program is gonna work to stop a person from desiring to crossdress!!!LOL
I hope my post helps someone...even just one woman. To see that if you just look at it this way..and not pay attention to society's idea of what is normal and not normal.......that if your spouse is good to you, dressing up in women's clothes isn't really a big deal. This hasn't changed the fact that I finally got my "Happily Ever After".
Thanks for all the hugs.:love:

I'm sorry for all the things that you have been through and I'm pleased that you are supporting as I am :)...but a lot of the SO's on this forum have had a rough time with their cding partners. It doesn't always come down to not accepting dressing up in womens clothes. If you go back to FAB and read older threads from the GGs in there then you might understand why they are not so accepting, also try reading loved ones. Just a few things that some have had to manage:

THIS ISN'T ALL CDERS BUT:

Spouse spending money on clothing etc that was supposed to be used for household bills, mortgage, rent.

Nothing else matters but them, everything has to revole round them and the cding, the family comes second and with some that includes any children.

Not being told sooner, most feel like their SO didin't trust them and then you have those who told people outside the family.

Going online and looking for hook ups with other cders, and in some cases it actually happening.

Being expected when told to be all hunky dory about it, not given any time to process.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by greeneyes

Do these other SO’s have no secrets? No Issues? No Insecurities? Do they not have things that need to be considered? Are they not victims of some kind of abuse that needs consideration….do they not have any kind of kink? Or personality traits that could cause pause? Do they not have their own form of self expression?

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It's been my experience that women especially insist on complete honesty from their mates, while reserving the right of deception, for themselves.

As you have mentioned, women and men have different things that they think are important. The best example is how so very many women believe that looks should not be considered important when a man considers a mate. Yet she will most certainly feel that his being a good provider IS very important. So it's all a matter of perspective as to what is important, and to who.
For a lot of women, their sexual attraction can be compromised by seeing their male mate as less than completely masculine. Once the sexual attraction is gone, so, too, can go the romantic love. Once that's gone, the marriage is usually done, unless they have reached the age/stage of life where sex isn't really all that important to them anymore.
Take it for what you will.

Kate, you may think that I am being dismissive of what a spouse may go through, and I am not. All those fears which you also call dangers, which may be that for some and not for others, are what I include in the use of insecurities. I just didn't want to write a lot to define all those. I am also not saying that those insecurities and dangers are unfounded. Wives go through moments of fear all the time when they find out their husband has been cheating, or is abusive or just changes his personality suddenly. So, this is not just related to CDing.

When I read or hear that a spouse went ballistic and threw out clothes, threatened her husband with disclosure to family friends and sometimes even where he works, I see someone way over reacting. That does not happen all the time, but I have read here many times. I am saying that once over that initial shock, the hurt spouse needs to act in a mature, professional, you pick the correct word, way and get more information and then decide what she wants to do. The CD spouse needs to do the same. If she decides to put her head in the sand (out of site out of mind), which is very common for some spouses here, instead of talking about it, trying to understand it all, then she is creating an unnecessary obstacle to her own happiness and the possible resolution to the issues at hand. Also I am not trying to put all the blame and responsibility on her shoulders. I am just pointing out that there are two sides to resolving the issue and I am addressing her side.

Ok, replace "mature" manner with "common sense" manner.

There is another thread going on here where the wife found out. Some posts are telling the OP that she should tell her wife everything. Well my message to the wife is, whether she asked for this or not, it is now an issue and she should try to work it out as best possible, which takes face to face conversations, honesty and a willingness to make it work, and direct honesty to separate if that is better for her, face those fears and dangers and get on with life.

Many of us here are not angels and have a lot of issues. Well, many spouses are the same way. I want them both to try to stay together if they can, and I respect their decisions to try or not, because that is their right and, of course, they will live with the consequences.

You last sentences I agree with, except for the choice part. They have a choice, to get qualified third party help, to stay or to leave. If one is that concerned about physical danger, professionals will say that she should see a qualified third party for advice, most cities and counties here in the USA have some minimal physical and mental health services, get the police involved if necessary, and then get out of that relationship. CDing does not even have enter into that scenario. It could just be an abusive relationship. Spousal abuse here is getting a lot of attention and I know people on both sides of that issue. Most local authorities don't fool around any longer, being on the side of the possibly abused most of the time.

Greeneyes is offering her side of the situation, which is fantastic because a lot of her questions "Why?" need to be asked, and all of us on both sides of the issue need to read what she says and ask those same questions to themselves.

Greeneyes, Hugs, and thank you for a wonderful post. A person's greatness is not seen in the good times, but how that person overccame adversity. That means you are a great person. I believe we need to package you up and have you give talks to wives of crossdressers. I've encountered many wives of crossdressers who believed the issue left them completely destroyed.

Allie, I think we are sort of talking the same thing perhaps from different view points. Just please understand how intensely frustrating it can be as either a cis or transwoman having men tell us how we should or should not behave and deal with things according to them rather than really listening to how we feel and trying to empathise and understand our worries and fears.

To give you some perspective take for instance your point about physical danger and just getting third party help. I don't think you quite understand the visceral fear that a woman, cis or trans, feels when put in a situation where she has to deal alone without witnesses with a man she either does not know or does not trust. Men don't understand that visceral fear. In that situation a man is afraid he might be laughed at, ridiculed, shouted at, perhaps even physically hurt. A woman is afraid she might be killed. Look deep in your own psyche and ask yourself in that situation as a man, one on one with a woman, physically is she more likely to be able to hurt me or am I more likely to be able to hurt her? For a woman she is asking herself, not whether he could hurt me, but how much will he hurt me before the police get here? What happens when the police leave?

For everyone, read Sandra's post #32 and ask yourself this simple question before you criticise your own or anyone else SO's. Were you as brave as Greeneyes partner? How long did it take you to tell your partners? And if it really isn't a "big deal" then why are so many of you still in the closet?

Greeneyes, you are a brave, caring and resilient person of that there is little doubt. And I also hope that couples can stay together, that SO's can learn and gain some understanding of their CD/TG/TS partner and help to address concerns with love and compassion. You also have by the sounds of things a wonderful, truthful partner who has been able to recognise his/her own faults and fears and confront them with your help. You do indeed seem to have a true partnership and I would encourage you to hold on to it and cherish it. Understand however that not all relationships unfortunately are like this, from both / either party, and without that true partnership it can become very difficult for either the Trans person or their partner to continue on together.

Best wishes Greeneyes

Kate

Hi Greeneyes,
You are sort of a champion SO celeb here - saying what we all wish our SOs would say.

I'll ask you why this post was brewed- are you under pressure from your own social circle- in that you don't feel you can share your point of view freely?

From how you feel, I'd expect you would be showing off your husband and moving the gender acceptance knob forward in your community- till all the local gals were saying, 'she's right, you know', and going home and asking their husbands if they ever had a desire to crossdress! Ok- maybe that is unrealistic....

You are definitely among friends, and most of us can tell you something about the why's other women don't express even kindly tolerance, not to mention enthusiastic support, for their crossdressing SO:

Actual loss- losing the complementary male who confirms their success as a woman and signifies it to others.
Emotional loss- the SO seems to love his female self better than her. This is one area where CDing can become pathological to relationships and not the only one.
Confusion and mistrust- 'what does this mean about my SO- how can he want to wear a bra? he must be mentally ill, gay, miswired, etc.'
Feared loss- which these days is probably less likely that it used to be- of her place in the network of social support that characterizes small town life and makes it work.
Alarm bells and dissonance with her own deep gender training- 'be attracted to boys, not girls, darling, or the world will come crashing down on you! ' Feeling repelled by the feminine as the lesbian danger zone.

My wife feels all these things. And it is not straightforward for her to get past them, even though she is also the daughter of an alcoholic abuser- and I think in her case she sees the normal nice man and settled conventional life as her refuge. The fact that I am flaunting norms is a danger sign for her.

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Originally Posted by phili

Hi Greeneyes,
You are sort of a champion SO celeb here - saying what we all wish our SOs would say.

I'll ask you why this post was brewed- are you under pressure from your own social circle- in that you don't feel you can share your point of view freely?

From how you feel, I'd expect you would be showing off your husband and moving the gender acceptance knob forward in your community- till all the local gals were saying, 'she's right, you know', and going home and asking their husbands if they ever had a desire to crossdress! Ok- maybe that is unrealistic....
.

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Thank you for the compliment. I do want to be an advocate for the freedom to dress and be exactly what you want to be. I have two disabled kiddos, so I have been advocating for acceptance for those who are different for a long time. I think it is just part of my personality.
I will support my SO as best as I can, and that includes making it clear when we go out that we are together and I support her decision to dress however she wants. Going out is kinda new to her, so we are not going public (family, friends) just yet. She will have to set the pace for anything like that.
I am not getting any back lash from my social circle, because we haven't shared yet. but I explained to my SO that I understand the consequences of what would happen if some people found out. We do not live in a vacuum, so it is always possible that we will run into someone or be outed in some way. If that happens I will let the chips fall where they may. they can accept it or they can go to hell. I might be sad to lose some people, but I have lost people before, it isn't the end of the world.
I do think that the more all of you go out the better. From what I have seen people usually do not say anything. It is all about exposure. I take my son who has autism to a lot of places that others think he should not go, like to the theater and fancy restaurants. when he was younger even the grocery store (he did a LOT of weird sounds and screaming that others' really hated). I think the more people see different people the easier it is for them to accept those differences!!!

again...maybe my life experiences explain the WHY question, but I think that more SO's need to stop and look at this from another perspective. If their marriage already has issues, I guess this could be the thing that broke the camels' back so to speak, but if they have a good marriage and they love their spouse, they really should try to see it isn't wrong, it is just different.

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Originally Posted by greeneyes

WHY do I think this is really no big deal?? Is it? In the big scheme of things?

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In response to your overall post: A thousand times YES!

It isn't a big deal. I'm with you completely. My CD is BLOWN AWAY that I'm attracted to him both when he's dressed as a male and when he's dressed in women't clothes. It's not about what he's wearing, it's about who he is.

Perhaps some people are just too superficial or care too much about what others think. I don't care about other people's opinions in most personal situations. The superficial isn't very important. And I suppose that's where your difficult past experiences may have impacted how you are now. You know that it's those deeper things that matter most.

I love my CD because he's a beautiful person, inside and out. He treats me well. He openly and frequently expresses his appreciation for me and the things I do for him, and he frequently goes out of his way to do sweet things for me. He's also intelligent, funny, sociable, creative, etc., etc. None of that has anything to do with what he wears.

Some of us just have better priorities than others. I guess that's where I sit with it.

Thank you for chiming in Gabriella! Life is good!

Just a great post ! .Nothing is perfect and life can be cruel the thing is sometimes it turns into something positive and that's when you know it was worth the fight !

I appreciate your directness, sincerity, and honesty in posting in this section of the forum. What I have learned from being a member on here for ten years is that many GGs do not post in this section out of fear of what you ended your post with.

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Originally Posted by greeneyes

I know people are going to TEAR ME UP for this, but here is my WHY question……WHY do I think this is really no big deal?? Is it? In the big scheme of things?

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This entire website deals with individuals living with fear. Having just gone through an election, inauguration, and today women protest, shows taking action as groups is less dangerous than sticking your own neck out. One thing I can testify about this website is that the moderators on here will, NOT ALLOW ANYONE ON HERE TO TEAR YOU UP! But getting everyone to accept this, following different life experiences is impossible:sad: