Cop called me a "skirt"

Stopped in a country store to get hot chocolate for my son. Lady server asked if I wanted whipped cream. Knowing my son, I said no. A male cop getting coffee, said "oh get it, you skirt". As I was in drab, it immediately hurt the man in me, even though he was "just joking". Then I realized that it hurt my femme side as well, and was an affront to all women and things feminine. As one who always thinks if what I should have said later I should have said, what's wrong with skirts? Or you don't like women, etc. I still feel yucky about it. Julie

As they say in Disney's "Frozen".

Let it go Let it go. :-)

Julie,
I think the cop must be clairvoyant if you were in drab, I think I would have gone along with the comment, lets face it some cops are CDers too .

On the other hand, you dropped him into a stereotype by saying he was a cop. Did his cop-ness have anything to do with his interaction with you? Doesn't seem like it would have changed significantly if you just said, "A guy getting coffee said..." I'm guessing his intent was not to insult all women everywhere but just to use the occasion to interact with another human being (most cops I know are extrovert,) and the easiest way to interact with a stranger is through humor. Admittedly the humor was flawed but the impulse seems good. Sometimes pondering too much is counter-productive. ;)

You don't know what kind of day he was having or where he was coming from. I wouldn't take it as a judgement or cause for offense. If you were in the northeast what he said may have amounted to "Good morning!"

not sure I understand the relationship between no whipped cream and skirts?????

Ok, as a retired cop (thirty years on the job as a deputy sheriff) I am compelled to comment. All of the comments are fine, but I must take exception to the cop, and his comment. I would never had made such a comment to a complete stranger like that. When Jennie commented most cops are extroverts, she is correct, as I am too, but that comment, in my opinion should not have been made. Cops have a bad enough rap with the current atmosphere in our country. We need to be polite and courteous, and this cop was not. Humor is okay, but this was not humor that should have been shared. I am ashamed of him, and consider his comment to be degrading toward women, much like the term broad, ECT.

I have to totally agree with Karyn Marie. The comment is not appropriate. I was a representative of the government for over thirty years. It was drilled into my head time and time again through refresher training that what I said and what I did would ultimately affect the perception the person had of my employer.

In physic world its called; I am not OK so I am going to make you, not ok. Basically projecting..... and no inner voice control.

Were you wearing a skirt?
You said you were in drab so please explain.
Don't be such a whiny butt people comment and sometimes its not nice and you may not like it thats life get over it.

Pat/Jennie,
I also qualified the lady was a "server". Just adding detail as to each person in the situation. No stereotype intended. And I can't see how could be interpreted as one.
Tracii, I hope you have a good day, some day. And thank you for the insightful commentary on what life is and how how I should live it.
Julie

Traci offers invaluable insight in a very empathetic manner.

Seems like an inappropriate thing to say

Acceptance of non-binaries is in the same state of limbo as things like racial tolerance. Some people feel they now have an opportunity to push back against "political correctness" they think has gone too far and needs to be rolled back. Among them can even be found police officers who toe the official line of tolerance and respect but disagree beneath the surface.

In my view, we are still winning the battle for acceptance, but it's not over and can still be lost.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

Don't be such a whiny butt people comment and sometimes its not nice and you may not like it thats life get over it.

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Aaaand that's the exact attitude that allows injustice to go unchecked. Saying victims of abuse or harassment, be it physical or (as I would say Julie was) verbal should "get over it" is no better than telling a person who was robbed "Sometimes people take money from you. You may not like it, but that's life. Get over it" or the culture of victim blaming that surrounds rape. Anyone who harasses others should be held accountable, be shown the error of their ways, and be held as an example to others who think that kind of behavior is acceptable, especially a person who holds a position of authority like a police officer (or a teacher like myself, just so no one thinks I'm targeting cops).

You have every right to be upset, Julie, and your feelings are valid. When I saw the title of this thread the other day, I didn't want to read it because I knew it would be upsetting, but then I realized that ignoring the problem made me no better than someone who says you should "Get over it." I know it's too late now, but if I were you, I would have gotten his badge number and reported him. Gross.

seems like a super weird comment to make. tbh if that happened to me i would be first confused if anything...hmmmm but you know remember if you really want to do something about you should cops are public servants and should be held accountable when they step out of line.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

Were you wearing a skirt?
You said you were in drab so please explain.
Don't be such a whiny butt people comment and sometimes its not nice and you may not like it thats life get over it.

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No Traci, it might be life, but it is not appropriate. This officer should not have said such a degrading comment about any woman. Julie has every right to be upset, as I know I would have been. :Pullhair:

OK Maybe its just me but I never got an answer to my question were you wearing a skirt in guy mode? Simple question I thought but I seem to have been insensitive for even asking.
What does whipped cream have to do with any of this?
Maybe its a northeast slang term I have no idea. So go ahead and pile on me for asking that question.
So by me saying what I said I'm being mean? No not at all just being honest.
People are way too sensitive these days and all this social "I'm triggered" stuff is just silly.
I guess I'm not like you and you feel you are better than I am so I will let it be.
Billy I tried to be nice to you but you wouldn't have it.

Sounded to me he was saying get a cup of coffee and not hot chocolate with whipped cream. I bet there was no intent on his part against women or cd's. In Texas if you don't man up its a popular saying oh come on you skirt. Same as we used to say come on you sissy. We meant no harm or meanness to the opposite sex, same as calling someone a chicken because they would dive off the high diving board.
Don't take it against you personally. Now if you were dressed might be upsetting, but wouldn't bother me in drab.
Makes me think of what I was always told "sticks n stones can break your bones but words can never hurt me".

Good lord, was he 90 years old? Haven't heard a woman called a skirt since the last film noir movie I watched.

I would have said, "I know! Dames! Whaddaya gonna do, amirite? Ya think they're a hoochie-coocher, but they're just on the lowdown. Whether they're a chick chippy cookie pusher or a cuddle cutie, they always show up riding a storm of flimflam, l tells ya."

Then I'd doff my fedora and head back to my shabby private detective office in the wrong part of town. I finish my hot chocolate and in walks danger, red head, as usual. One look at that face, and I knew before the night was out I'd be hip deep in German hatchetmen, Mafia trouble boys, and the fading scent of her perfume, with just the memory of her lips on mine.

Yeah... yeah... *cough* so, anyway, weaponized satire is my usual go to.

I'm off to see if Netflix has The Big Sleep.

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Originally Posted by Jaylyn

I bet there was no intent on his part against women or cd's. In Texas if you don't man up its a popular saying oh come on you skirt. Same as we used to say come on you sissy. We meant no harm or meanness to the opposite sex...

Makes me think of what I was always told "sticks n stones can break your bones but words can never hurt me".

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Just because no harm is intended doesn't mean it isn't harmful. If we lived in the same apartment building and my apartment caught fire because you left your stove on, you'd be responsible, right? I'm sure you wouldn't leave your stove on on purpose to intentionally burn the apartment building down, but you'd still be the guilty party.

Words most definitely can and do hurt, and the pain they create often harms more than just the directed victim.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

OK Maybe its just me but I never got an answer to my question were you wearing a skirt in guy mode? Simple question I thought but I seem to have been insensitive for even asking.

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No one is upset about your question. It's your "advice" about "getting over it" that's so upsetting.

I've heard the outdated and sexist term "skirt" as a term for women, as in, "Hey, look at the skirt that just walked in."

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

People are way too sensitive these days and all this social "I'm triggered" stuff is just silly.

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I don't understand why people think being sensitive and caring about other people's feelings are somehow bad or ruining our society. Could it be that maybe, just maybe, people were way too INsensitive in the past and that we should now hold ourselves to a higher standard?

EDIT: Maria, that was amazing! Hahaha! :notworthy:

For the record:
- I wasnt wearing a skirt. His comment would have been even more odd and strange if I had been
- Perhaps he was inferring I should get a more manly drink, like coffee. But this is still uncalled for, and demeaning to anyone who wears skirts, especially since there was a GG (yes, I am assuming) in the mix
- Tracii, I never thought your question about whether I was wearing a skirt was mean. Given what I posted, that possibility never entered my mind
- Yes, I am too sensitive sometimes, and should toughen up. I just wish the world would meet me half way and be kinder. Not going to happen
- Tracii, I do not think I am better than you, or anyone else. Why would you assume that? I do think your are often mean in your responses. Some of us come here to vent about things we have no where else to do so, because of the way we would be treated elsewhere. I am naive for assuming this forum is any different than the rest of the world.

Wow, we do tend to overanalyze these simple life interactions,
Julie

Hell-o Julie,
What Maria said is true, it's a very old slang term used by men when referring
to a woman, usually while talking to another man "Hey Joe, get a load of that skirt!"
But I think in this case with you being in DRAB, as Jaylyn said, he was telling you to man up, and not be such a sissy.

Was it an appropriate comment? No, but... as you said he was joking.
So I wouldn't take as anything other than a bit of friendly jeering between two guys.

You didn't say, or do anything in response to his comment at the time, what else can you
do now other than get over it.
Much Love,
Kristyn

As someone in a so called "position of assumed authority" I would say that the officer was totally out of line with his skirt comment. To hear something like that reminds me of old black and white bad cop movies, very disrespectful to male, female, tg or ts.

I may be blunt in my comments sometimes I get that but would you rather I coddle you and tell you Oh its OK don't let that mean man get to you?
How was his comment an affront to all things feminine or women?
Julie you got offended because you crossdress and feel guilty that you do. Thats why your manhood got bruised.
I'm sure the cop didn't mean it in a derogatory way you are just too sensitive about things like that.
Sensitivity is good don't get me wrong but over a comment like that no.
ChristinaD saying here comes a skirt is not in any way sexist.Its just a saying, "hey guys here comes a pretty woman".Its just a slang term not meant to hurt or demean women.
I could go off here but I won't but the world doesn't revolve around your "feelings".

Come on you sissy. Did I just hear someone in this forum use that term as a harmless thing men say??????? You would think here everyone would be sensitive to how that term was the weapon of choice for most bullies. No one soda that to me growing up because I acted like the most butch male they had seen. Because I was so scared of humiliation that would come with that term. I don't think it was the worst thing that happened to be admonished for being a skirt but it shouldn't be said.
Suzanne

I can understand your confusion and it was an odd thing for him to say but if I were you, I wouldn't overthink it. People say odd things all of the time. Women deal with the good and bad -- just as men do. Everyone is equal when dealing with the variety of people in this big wide world. I would have just laughed it off. The best way to disarm an odd comment is with humor.

As Beverly Sims suggest - Let it go.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

I may be blunt in my comments sometimes I get that but would you rather I coddle you and tell you Oh its OK don't let that mean man get to you?

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Yes, because that's what empathetic human beings do.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

How was his comment an affront to all things feminine or women?

. . .

ChristinaD saying here comes a skirt is not in any way sexist.Its just a saying, "hey guys here comes a pretty woman".Its just a slang term not meant to hurt or demean women.

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It's sexist, misogynistic, derogatory, and harmful to all women because:

1. To call a woman "a skirt" strips her of her entire identity by reducing her entire being to what she's wearing. It's saying that the woman wearing the skirt (or the metaphorical skirt, as it were) is more important than the woman herself. It makes the woman a thing, not a person, the literal definition of objectification.

2. As others have said, his comment was meant to associate femininity with weakness on the basis of Julie's order. A "real man," to this disgusting individual, wouldn't order a hot chocolate. Because, you know, what you drink is what defines your gender. *eyeroll*

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

Julie you got offended because you crossdress and feel guilty that you do. Thats why your manhood got bruised.
I'm sure the cop didn't mean it in a derogatory way you are just too sensitive about things like that.

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Julie, don't let anyone tell you:

1. Why you're offended and/or why you shouldn't be offended. However you feel is valid and no one knows you better than you.

2. That you should feel guilty or ashamed about having feelings or having those feelings hurt. Again, however you feel is valid.

I think this last post sealed it for me there is no reason in trying to make any sense at this point.

when i first started going out i was overly sensitive and very self conscience. anyone even glancing in my direction,
clocking me or not, made me want to run and hide. once i was able to accept myself, become happy with myself,
and show confidence, i didn't let looks, stares or comments bother me. so with anything new, there is
a certain amount of "growing pains". i learned quickly that if i wanted to go out i had to have thicker skin. there are lots
of idiots in the world and you can't let them bother you!

i can understand the cops comment bothering you and that's fine as we all have feelings. he definitely was out of line.
if he was joking i would of just let it go or made a smart ass comment back at him. if i felt he was challenging my masculinity,
i might of said to him, "this skirt can kick your ass"

i'm much too old for all of this political correctness. anyone calling me a skirt now would just flatter me. :)

Wouldn't care if he called me a skirt and its funny I had never heard that term and I was a truck driver for 40 years.
I hate when guys talk bad or derogatorily about women its just not right.
I have been called he/she/it,tranny, faggot,queerhomofag (i loved that one because he said it as all one word)LOL.
Its just names thats all and if you have thin skin too bad for you.

i must be old. i remember the term "skirt". it was popular the same time as dame and broad. :D

popular term with gangsters ;)

great post, Maria

Christina, I'm behind you and I agree with every word you've rattled off. The comment was totally sexist. Totally inappropriate. It reinforces a patriarchial sense of entitlement and the idea that men are able to perpetuate their masculinity and superiority to women through these kinds of attitudes. And writing it off as no big deal gives him a pass to continue doing it. Telling the person that they should toughen up is victim blaming, akin to telling a woman she shouldn't wear such a short skirt because she'll get herself harassed. Our society continues to give the ok for men to treat women as second class citizens and to cite femininity in men as an undesirable trait. If we can't see that, or if we let it go, we just allow those same attitudes to persist. And as individuals who exist along the gender spectrum and outside that societal norms, we are continually in struggle with these norms. We represent a fear that society has that men can be femme and still be strong and worthy of respect.

If we can't be self-critical and examine our own biases and internalized sexism, then we're no better than the macho sexist guy putting down women. It's not a matter of having a thin skin. It's not a matter of needing to let it go. It's that when you give a pass on the small things, they grow into bigger things, and soon enough, they become attitudes and entitlement that can physically harm someone.

I'm sorry you experienced this, Julie.

OK I'll try this one more time.
Its not OK to objectify women, its not OK to sexually assault women, its not OK to treat women as second class citizens.
WTH is victim blaming anyway if you do something stupid or go somewhere its not wise to go to for any person and if anything bad happens its your fault.
Case in point protesting/blocking the middle of a 4 lane hwy at midnight and you get run over. Whos fault is that? Yours for being stupid.
Next you will make up something else to complain about like the mall has blue carpet in the Apple store.
There goes that patriarchal entitlement buzzword I always hear well most of you guys are men and do the same thing you rail against and don't tell me you don't.
Its like you all just regurgitate the same thing out of the same play book.
I blame the public school system.
Its tough being a gay TG person on this site sometimes.

It does matter that it was a cop who said it. Any 'ordinary' guy saying it, you can respond either with a barbed piece of repartee, or simply telling him he's out of order. But I'd hesitate to do that with a cop - he could take it as 'failing the attitude test' and arrest or even taser you. In Britain, the slightest display of non-deference to a cop can get you into serious trouble. I'd have said nothing, but make a note of his number on the uniform, and later lodge a formal complaint. Probably wouldn't achieve anything, but I'd at least feel that I had done something about it.

The reply you missed Julia was

"Hmmm.... yes, because oodles of fat is what every man needs in his diet". NOT obviously.

Julie,
Maybe we should look at this from a totally different angle !

What does a chocolate filled cup with swirly cream on the top look like ? Possibly a frilly skirt ! Maybe the cop had other things on his mind when he suggested the name !

I had to sit back and smile , when I thought of what a visitor might make of this thread, we are all CDers here, surely the nicest thing someone can call us is a bit of skirt ! That's what most of us like wearing so why be offended when a comment like that is made !

As I see it, (agreeing with most comments) at this point, you can file a complaint or just get over it! It is over and done. It is time to move on. Hugs Lana Mae

Well its like when you play golf and don't hit the ball hard enough they call you "Alice".

I too feel that it's just a comment that should be ignored. The cops an idiot, but, there's much bigger things to worry about in life. Oh and coffee is no more manly than hot chocolate, face it, most coffees sold (throughout Europe at least) are either Latte, Cappucino or Mocha's, all of these often served with whipped cream and/or chocolate sprinkles.

There are a great many other so called acceptable comments that are far more offensive.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

Wouldn't care if he called me a skirt and its funny I had never heard that term and I was a truck driver for 40 years.

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If you never heard the term, how could you conclude, "Its just a saying, "hey guys here comes a pretty woman".Its just a slang term not meant to hurt or demean women."

I never heard of the term "skirt" but it does sound like an old time word gangsters would use, sort of like moll maybe.

But every person and every situation is different for different people. I can only use your words to get a feel of the situation. I don't know how many people were there, would they back me up if I responded or take the cops side if things got out of hand. You had your son with you, you have to take that into account. Sometimes it's best to say nothing and move on but this doesn't mean you didn't feel offended or hurt, it just means you get to live another day without harm done.

I am not the best one to give advise on walking away without saying anything. Many times I retaliated when someone, even a cop would say something to me that I felt was wrong to say. Some of those times left me with a bruise or cut or worse. So it all depends, is it worth it to respond back. In most of my cases, yes, I feel good about responding back. Some of them I wish I just walked away. One has to look at the whole picture and see if a response back is worth it.

My response back to the cop would have been I don't have a skirt could I borrow yours.

I never even heard of coffee being somehow manlier. At work it's always the broads forming the coffee clatches while the palookas just sip whiskey from their hip flasks, the sauced up mooks.

Billy I came to the conclusion about it being a saying by reading the posts here that said it was.
I just had never heard the saying so please don't try to start something.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

WTH is victim blaming anyway if you do something stupid or go somewhere its not wise to go to for any person and if anything bad happens its your fault.

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"When you do something stupid" is the crux of victim blaming where the innaporiate or illegal actions of the guilty party are ignored. When the "something stupid" is, let's say, a young woman wearing a very tightly fitted miniskirt to a bar and then getting sexually assaulted by a man while walking to her car, who is the guilty party in that situation? The man, obviously. Saying "She shouldn't have worn those revealing clothes" not only harms her, but allows her attacker to go unpunished.

What's worse about this common example is that when women DO dress "conservatively," they're mocked for that too. "Wow, what a prude. Would it hurt you to show a little skin?" So if a woman wears a miniskirt, she's a s*ut who deserves to be raped. If she wears a pantsuit, she's a prude bi**h who thinks she's too good for a man.

Women can't win in our society, which brings us too...

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

There goes that patriarchal entitlement buzzword I always hear well most of you guys are men and do the same thing you rail against and don't tell me you don't.

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Are you insinuating that I and others are hypocrites with no evidence? Because I can tell you that I most certainly do NOT talk or think this way and if I do find myself inadvertently doing so, I make it right. For example, when I'm teaching, I'll sometimes inadvertently address my students collectively by saying, "Hi guys, welcome to class" before stopping, realizing that I had just used gender specific language, and saying, "Hello everyone, welcome to class." It's a terrible habit that I'm trying to correct within myself.

I've only heard the expression "skirt" referring to a man once. Someone was telling me about a hitchhiker he picked up and said he was a skirt. I didn't ask for more details.

Tracii, I'm glad that you're here to say things that don't go with the rest of those responding. I do that too sometimes and get backlash for it. Everyone being in agreement about topics or situations is boring. That doesn't mean I want to see flaming, baiting or trolling. We should all get use to brutal honesty but also remember it's just someone's opinion.

I think the cop was probably trying to be funny, kind of at the expense of Julie. But it was probably a bad transaction as Eric Berne would put it. A quick and witty comeback would have been the thing to do, but sometimes we can't do that when emotions stir up. JMO.

Christina look a woman can wear anything she wants anywhere she wants BUT is it appropriate is the question.
If someone says bad things about how she is dressed thats wrong, if they rape her or harm her thats wrong too.
Sexual assault is wrong and illegal there are laws covering that.
You are acting more reactionary and not understand my point.
I see you admitted using your patriarchal entitlement so no need to discuss that subject any longer.
You are involved in the public school system and have been slowly programmed to think they way you do but I won't hold that against you because you don't know anything different.

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Originally Posted by Christina D

nsinuating that I and others are hypocrites with no evidence? Because I can tell you that I most certainly do NOT talk or think this way and if I do find myself inadvertently doing so, I make it right. For example, when I'm teaching, I'll sometimes inadvertently address my students collectively by saying, "Hi guys, welcome to class" before stopping, realizing that I had just used gender specific language, and saying, "Hello everyone, welcome to class." It's a terrible habit that I'm trying to correct within myself.

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again, this political correctness stuff drives me crazy. i only have female employee's and i do the very same thing by calling them
collectively as "guys". i see nothing wrong with this and i guess my girls don't either. some have been with me for over 20 years.
i believe they understand that it is said without malice and more of a term of endearment.

if i say to my SO. "love you baby" is that not a term of endearment or am i insulting them by referring that they are a child?

the world is a very cruel place. why do we worry about the little things when there are much more important issues to deal with.
i grew up with parents and grandparents who lived through the depression. life was much harder back then and people weren't worried about "feelings". these are just words! if the context and tone are not meant in an offensive way i don't understand why
it is wrong. if the intent is to hurt and harm then i can agree that it is wrong.

if i was a thin skinned GG i might be offended by your signature where you repeat "i'm just a girl"... ;)

Paula times are different and people just get all wound up over the tiniest thing.
Its like you are in a cafe and you look at someone then they get all mad you looked at them.I have had this happen and its just crazy.
Kind of like in High School wanting to punch someone for looking at your girlfriend.
Most of this stuff going on is childish and coming from people that never had to get along with others and stayed at home instead of playing outside and learning how to cope with other people.
Its really sad too because these people have turned into adults and can't deal with things then go off their nut when someone doesn't agree with them.