Are we objectifying women?

At first, I was going to post "Are we JUST objectifying women?" but, that sounded too narrow minded. Now, take note that this ponderance is posted in a crossdressing forum. So, that's the point of view. What are your thoughts?

Imitation is the most sincere form of flattery.
Sara

Depends on the motivation of whatever you feel you're doing that might be considered that way.

carla id of thought you would know better than to post a question like this :eek: especially with some of the open threads going on.
if you were to answer impartially :devil:

its like when someone asks you "do you think these jeans make my ass look fat" we all know how to answer that,
no your fat makes your ass look fat :doh:

as for me i have no opinion about that :D

I personally, Don't believe that I do. I may be heard objectifying men!

May be why I'm here reading and replying to your postings!
May be because I'm a little bit of a woman myself!
May be I can't work it out, and should just Ponder!

I could be found to be "Just Competing with Women" ( Well maybe not all of them! )

Stacy!

I think Sandin might have it in that objectification is motivation oriented. I think cross dressing can have that motivation. But what I see in most of the people here is an expression of a real identity of some sort that has at least a stronger opposite gender orientation than is found in most people. In some it is strong, very strong or even dominant with essentially complete gender reversal. In others it is variable. But in most there really is something deeper going on that drives a need to openly express what is felt.

I don't think that is objectification in the sense of laying traps wearing a disguise and presenting a false demeanor that will attract the prey. In my experience that kind of person says they absolutely love women when in fact the motivation is more of "I love women because women are submissive and need and want to be cared for and possessed and I am more than happy to oblige because I love them so much. And if they are beautiful women then that is all the better as far as I am concerned." There are males who truly believe that and think it is perfectly normal and permissible. I have known a few and they are phony as a $3 bill. In general, they approach most everything in life with that attitude. I don't think most of us here would care one bit to have a friend who thinks that way. That said, that kind of a super predator is not likely to wear a dress to catch someone. The point is, it is the attitude that defines the distinction.

Carla,
If you checked the archives at a rough guess 50% of threads possibly do just that .

To me it's not the case clothes and dressing are only part of the equation, I guess we look to women for guidance in trying to get it right, but then they often look to the media to fine tune their dressing and makeup , glossy magazines have so much to answer for , they are full of objects and looks that many women aspire to .

I personally want to be seen and accepted as a woman, OK to me it's AGP, so many factors are in play when I go out and socialise , maybe unknowingly I become an object of desire to someone, ( I'd either laugh it off or run a mile if I knew ! )

On the other side of the coin women must do it for a certain type of man, you only have to look at the fans of pop or film stars, oddly they have been known to throw their underwear at the guys ! That one always makes me smile, what do they think the guys are going to do with them ?

Obviously take to it's extreme if can be scary, even dangerous , possibly leading to stalking and worse .

I guess it's a natural thing because of our culture women have become objects of desire, overall I feel it's getting worse . You only have to look at the succession of adverts on TV, glossy magazines and now the internet to be bombarded with beautiful images of women in an attempt to sell female products . How to become a perfect woman by buying X or Y brand , no wonder many of us are struggling with escaping the pink fog far more than we ever did .

While I have been known to objectify women, my crossdressing and emasculation fetish don't have anything to do with that. It's about me and not about them. On another level, I think that all sexual attraction is fetishistic (and therefor objectifying). A beautiful woman walks by and I find her attractive, not as a person because I don't know her but, as an "object" of beauty and sexual desire. Maybe we get to know each other, fall in love and it becomes more than this fetishistic attraction. Eventually the beauty fades but true love remains. And it all started with objectification! So don't think it's a bad thing.

How can u NOT objectify women u r attracted to but don't know and, will probably never meet!?

I have always done that. Not proud of it but do it anyway!:straightface:

Now, here's a question for u, Carla. Do u objectify yourself? I DO Sherry!:daydreaming:

Or is the better question "are we objectifying women more than other women are?"
We look at how women are dressed and what is in style in catalogs or online, just like GGs. We try to make ourselves look good as best we can, just like many women. We are humans, and like half (if not more) of other humans, we want to look good and make ourselves feel better about ourselves due to feeling like we look good. We just happen to feel we can look best (or equally good) by using the items not currently used by males. I think drag queens may objectify women more in going to extremes. One could make a case that taking any stereotypical feature to the extreme is objectifying women. So a woman who gets implants to be DD may be doing that, or getting permanent makeup or eyelash extensions. So too with a CDer who prefers larger forms.
So yes we objectify women, but not so much different than other women.
IMHO
Hugs, Ellen

First....as Tonto asked The Lone Ranger when under attack by Apaches, "What you mean WE, white man?"
Asking any question like this of a large, diverse community is bound to generate a wide variety of replies plus more than a little guilty silence. TG can't even agree among themselves as to who are TG. Lol Certainly, it's blatantly clear that many sexually driven TG ( don't pretend they don't exist... even here) absolutely objectify women. But ask any feminist and they will tell you that in a patriarchal society such as ours ALL women are constantly objectified everyday. And marginalized. And all at the whim of men who vigorously deny the reality of male privilege lol
So, to answer your question, when even cisfemale often fall into the trap of self objectification, to expect transwomen to act otherwise would be naive.
Nonetheless, not all of us do, or rather, taking a post feminist view, not all do all the time haha

I don't see my boyfriend's CDing as objectifying. He appreciates, and in many ways identifies with, inherent female qualities. However, aside from that, related to his clothing fetish, he absolutely objectifies females.

We fall in with the rest of society in how we dress and present ourselves. Our choices in clothing, hair, makeup, shoes and everything else, including shape wear, represent our take on what a female version of ourselves would (should?) look like. We base our choices on what we see in the media and who we see or know in real life. Their choices are subject to popular culture, modified by their personal opinions, needs and comfort levels. If there is objectification in there anywhere, we are participating at some level.

Is cross dressing in itself objectifying women? I don't think so, but it's not a big step if we fail to think about what we are doing. So the earlier post suggesting the importance of intent has value here. If we are dressing at home and not interacting with anyone but that girl in the mirror, go for it. Become the object of your dreams. But if you have any intent to join the flow of humanity in public, think a bit about the image you present and the message it delivers. Are you finding ways to demonstrate your own femininity but not as a caricature that is developed not in admiration of but at the expense of women? How do you want to fit into the mainstream, if you want to fit at all? Dressing age, size and activity appropriate seems to tend away from the objectification issue, but it's still there regardless because that seems to be a cornerstone of our culture.

I dunno if it objectifies women but i think it depends on how you do it.

Sorry, but for me this has nothing to do with other women and everything to do with me.

Maybe to some degree. At least on my part!!

No, I'm not objectifying women by dressing like them, I'm trying to emulate and be like them. I know that in some feminist quarters, crossdressing is considered objectifying. However, I don't put much stock in others attributing why I do something, I'll rely on my own reasons.

No! I am more a feminist than some women I know! I love women and think the macho crap should end! Being rough and stupid around women is wrong! They are not your property! OK no more rant! Hugs Lana Mae

No I don't think I am at all.
I tend to objectify men.

I don't objectify women, I'm just really jealous of their wardrobe

I can see how some women could feel that CDing in general could be seen as objectifying them. But I think that in the majority of cases its not. The majority of women will put on makeup daily and try and look nice when they go out. I can't see how a Tperson doing that is any different.

Crossdressing seems to be a solitary endeavor even when taken out into the public sphere. There is no victim or other as there is in pornography. Here is a fairly comprehensive list concerning what objectification is and does.

1.instrumentality: the treatment of a person as a tool for the objectifier's purposes;
2.denial of autonomy: the treatment of a person as lacking in autonomy and self-determination;
3.inertness: the treatment of a person as lacking in agency, and perhaps also in activity;
4.fungibility: the treatment of a person as interchangeable with other objects;
5.violability: the treatment of a person as lacking in boundary-integrity;
6.ownership: the treatment of a person as something that is owned by another (can be bought or sold);
7.denial of subjectivity: the treatment of a person as something whose experiences and feelings (if any) need not be taken into account.
reduction to body: the treatment of a person as identified with their body, or body parts;
9.reduction to appearance: the treatment of a person primarily in terms of how they look, or how they appear to the senses;
10.silencing: the treatment of a person as if they are silent, lacking the capacity to speak.

https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/f...jectification/

I had to think a while about the question. The inverse of objectification might seem to be idealization. I've read many many statements from others, and even myself expressed an "admiration for women", bordering on idealization. You know, statements like "I admire women so much I want to be one." The expression is meant to be a positive, but isn't idealizing or romanticizing also turning a majority of the population into icons?

We are objectifying when we define people by the group they are in, by color or skin, religion, or birth sex, or their choice of clothing, rather than the content of their character. No one should be reduced to symbolic status.

Yikes, Kelly, great list. Kind of sums it all up doesn't it. And it contains most of the points others have mentioned.

Maybe we just replicate perceived feminine components that give us the feeling that we are emulating something that is predominately non-male.

:straightface:

Carla, you're so full of it!

CDing for my SO has nothing to do with objectifying women it is simply an outward expression of what is inside.

Not for me, no objectification. I am a "femme-phile" loving all things feminine. And I simply love women.

Another way to look at this.... are you mimicking women, or are you expressing yourself? Or some mixture of the two?

I think its maybe the type of image that one tries to portray that can be construed as objectifying women. For instance if you choose very ****ty clothing then someone can interpret it as that's how you see all women. My wife has told me she is not particularly fond of very ****ty clothing on me.

Could we be objectifying ourselves???