By not wearing

By not wearing women's clothes in public aren't you hurting and stifling male to female cross dressing? By just wearing the minimum such as women's jeans instead of male, sandals, women's tee shirt, a little makeup, ear rings, etc., isn't this educating the public and getting them use to our style of dressing. Then it becomes "just normal". Won't this expedite the way for CD's to dress in more feminine clothing all the way to dressing all out as a woman?

Shouldn't you start doing this like now? And of course always fem undies 24/7. And it would be nice to see more men (CD's) shopping and trying on fem clothes in stores.

Me???? That's how I dressed yesterday, today and will tomorrow. Hope to see you out shopping in your girl jeans and you see me in mine.

Deebra there are so many of us that are at many different levels of the CD journey. So many have reasons they can't be out and about in girls jeans. Small town USA where every body knows every body is still not an accepting place. I do think it's becoming more of a common thing in some of the bigger cities. I don't think the clothing manufactures want us to all start wearing one type clothing, as they make too much off of designing the many different types of clothing. Namely male n female. If we all blend together one of those gender specific clothing business will be hurt. Money and what sells is what drives the clothing market.
I say yes though to the acceptance and people finally getting use to seeing males and females wearing the same clothes. Taking the labels off as to male or female departments and having two separate areas in a store might help in every one buying more of what they really want to wear. I'm still nervous in a shoe store where the sign says women's heels. I usually walk thru there in male mode looking but acting like I'm just walking thru while waiting on my wife, taking side glances very quickly at the different heels.

I've been working on that. A little bit at time. Small steps

I understand your point but if one were to extrapolate this further wouldn't clothing then eventually become homogeneous? And then where would we be as crossdressers?

Why not, Deebra? Because for many of us CD's that's NOT crossdressing!:sad:

The androgynous look may be fine for u but I won't dress that way! :brolleyes:

And, I don't dress to further any "trans cause". I dress just for ME!:battingeyelashes:

I wear women's jeans all the time. Sometimes with a woman's t-shirt and I do have my ears pierced and wear studs all the time.
As for a little makeup, a little jewelry, a little this...no thanks.
I wear the jeans because I like the style but if I'm wearing makeup and such I want to be seen as female, not something in between. I don't dress to educate the public. I do it to be me and enjoy my feminine side to it's fullest.

When I dress I go all out to look like a woman, so dress or skirt , heels, full make up, accessories, never ever wear jeans or trousers (yes I know a lot of women do wear them) . And if you under dress, who is going to know? As some have already said, I do this thing for me.

I've seen many posts over the years attempting to pull others out of their closet "for the good of the community". Even an occasional "you're welcome" from someone who chooses to be out and about, suggesting that I owe them thanks for what they do for me. Hogwash. Don't break your arm patting yourself on the back.
I agree with Doc: androgynous dressing is not my style, and dressing up is for my personal enjoyment. Sorry, but it's not my mission to advance acceptance of crossdressing.
If it's yours, go for it.

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Originally Posted by deebra

Shouldn't you start doing this like now? And of course always fem undies 24/7. And it would be nice to see more men (CD's) shopping and trying on fem clothes in stores.

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Deebra, even if all the crossdressers in the world (for whom dressing is more than getting a kick out of wearing women's panties) were out in the open shopping and trying on clothes in women's stores, there still wouldn't be enough to make a difference, or rather, make it mainstream.

Genuine fear is one.
Fear of not being socially accepted or abused (physically or mentally)
If we all flocked together they'd call it a staged event, on our own we are sissy boys or trannys.
It's a scary old world out there and whilst I can only speak for myself, I am very sensitive and cry easily and to be abused like that would be so hard to cope with.

That said the tg community is creeping up in acceptance. Mainly amongst the younger generation, but that's a good thing

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Originally Posted by deebra

By not wearing women's clothes in public aren't you hurting and stifling male to female cross dressing?

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No. :Angry3: And I find the question toxic. Nobody has any duties or responsibilities to "cross dressing." (And I say this even though I present female full-time.) You have no right to try and burden people who only have responsibilities to themselves. They know their situation. They make their own choices. Just as you do and just as I do.

Debra,

Your post raises several important questions. By hiding in the "closet" do we perpetuate a misunderstanding among the public? I don't know the answer but my observation is that the CD community is one that seems to prefer the shadows, especially compared with the gay community that is very public now. If more of our community were to get out in public would it help or would it make people dislike what we are?

By doing small things, as you suggest, such as looking more feminine or wearing ear piercings, are we shifting the boundaries of what is considered "normal" and acceptable, and thereby helping the "cause" a little at a time?

I get my nails done at a local salon including my toenails. When I first requested painted nails I got some laughter and comments but now they just get on with it.

Caitlyn Jenner currently seems to be the most public face of the CD/TG community and perhaps her new biography will help the wider public understand what we are and what we struggle with.

When it comes to the our community - CD, GNC, Trans, Andro, whatever; we are all at different points in our journey and we are all a different points of how comfortable we are when it comes to being "out" in public. There is no right or wrong way as it is a very personal journey. You may be comfortable with the level in which you dress out in public; and you might encourage others to have the confidence to do the same. But as some have said there are those that may only want to dress in the comfort of their home; there are those that can't dress because of their environment - family, religion, work, etc.

Also one must note that when it comes to clothes, it is pretty subjective...what really makes a pair of pants womxns or mens? What makes a t-shit a womxn or mens? What makes sandals womxn or mens? What makes a pair of underwear for womxn or men? What makes ear rings womxn or mens? Sure, clothes may be cut, styled, designed differently for each gender - men or womxn. But in reality, those things won't determine if a particular clothing is made for a man or womxn. They only determining factor is who is putting on the clothes in the first place; did uyou know that pants were originally made only for men and it was unheard of or looked down upon for womxn to wear a pair of pants. But as more womxn opt to wear pants instead of a dress it became the norm. So maybe, if more people wear a certain item that was made for one gender over the other, then it will become the norm over time.

Just another "stir the pot" thread.
Deebra you seem to assume things to be a certain way when they just aren't.

How about this? Do you, Deebra, go out all the time dressed as a female with wig, finger nails painted and lipstick and makeup, jewelry and a purse. If not, why not?

Erm, with many cross dressers in the media reaching audiences of millions, I'm not sure this is relevant?

I share most of Kairis feelings here, with one exception. I too can be overtly sensitive but, when pressed hard, I tend to revert to my old self and strike out at my attacker. When I was young, I would ball up and cry. The only problem with that was my mental/physical assailants would only attack harder if you did.I was once rendered unconscious by a group of these young thugs. After a few bad senseless beatings I learned to fight back, and also learned I could actually fight well! Now, as I get older I wish to revert back to becoming passive. It is sooo hard to do this however. I really must do it however, as violence only serves to make me feel very sick afterwards, and under arrest as well...Fun to be me!

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Originally Posted by SometimesKairi

Genuine fear is one. Fear of not being socially accepted or abused (physically or mentally). If we all flocked together they'd call it a staged event, on our own we are sissy boys or trannys. It's a scary old world out there and whilst I can only speak for myself, I am very sensitive and cry easily and to be abused like that would be so hard to cope with.

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^this. Not all of you have experienced what it's like to be an outcast. I have. I grew up with an ugly birthmark on my face, nobody wanted anything to do with me, they treated me like I was a leper. I got blamed as being bad luck to people around me, got picked on and bullied all through my school years. Sporting teams, when they chose sides, no one wanted me on their team. No one....they'd rather be shorthanded than have me on their team. I have no desire to repeat that experience just to 'further the cause'.

You be the martyr, deebra. I'll pass.

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Originally Posted by Pat (aka Jennie)

No. And I find the question toxic. Nobody has any duties or responsibilities to "cross dressing." You have no right to try and burden people who only have responsibilities to themselves. They know their situation. They make their own choices. Just as you do and just as I do.

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Well put.

CDing is a very deep personal thing with me. Like Doc, i dress only for me. Going on 63 yo, not many people in my age range think this "thing" is OK. I myself, am even conflicted about the whole "thing."

the non acceptance of cding is abit deeper than people not being used seeing them about then otherwise there would be no more homophobia at least in big cities. As for me not interested in doing the inbetweenie thing either or. but change comes from being politically active.

No. Not dressing doesn't affect the general populace in any way. Do you see men on the street and say "oh that cross dresser is in the closet and hiding, therefore cross dressing must be bad"? No you see a guy in guy clothes and move on. This is like saying that gay people hurt their cause by not constantly making out with the same sex.

In fact, I'd argue that by all being different we are HELPING the cause by making people realize that crossdressers come in all shapes, sizes, and styles and that we are not a monolith.

In my opinion, this shouldn't be an issue.
But it is one. I am still sorta in the closet. Why? Because I am very sensitive of people seeing me.
If I felt I could pass, no big deal.
But, at least currently. I can not pass. I don't even come close to a feminine figure.

There will always be a segment of the population who does what we do (coupled with our supporters). :)

Just as there will always be a segment of the population who thinks what we do is gross, perverted, wrong, etc.

And in the middle, probably lies a pretty big chunk of people who are like, "Eh, whatever... Not my cup of tea. Whatever floats your boat? Little weird, but as long as you don't 'get up all in my business' about it, I'll leave you alone, too."


Yes, the percentages & intensity of these groups will shift back & forth over time. But as long as we humans keep making new males & females, what we do will never become completely "normalized," for a lack of a better word, IMO.



Anyway, I get what deebra is saying. And on some levels, and at least on paper, it does make sense. But given the above, it's just not going to happen the way you want things to be.


As for her "call-to-action," please don't take it so personally. How I present today, is quite different than how I presented 5 years ago, which was different from a decade ago, and likewise, 2 decades ago... People do change sometimes, ya know. ;)


Little story on this: Years ago I was good friends with a drag queen -- who *only* got all dolled-up for competitions (she did do a lot of them, though, LOL). She thought it was completely bizarre that I'd dress up like a "normal" chick & hang out & do normal things... Whether it was a clubbing outfit for bar-hopping, or business-casual like I was a GG after a professional day at the office, or even dressy casual (nice jeans & a top), or whatever. To her, it was either total drag queen for her competitions -- or bust. She just didn't "get it"!

Or at least at first.

Fast forward, to the next Halloween. "Wait- you want to do *what*? Dress up like a chick who is dressing up for Halloween??" :confused3:

The thought of that had never even occurred to her -- let alone simply getting all-dolled up to go "as a woman."

So the Friday night of that Halloween weekend, a few of us went out, some costumed, some not. She went as her guy self, while I went as a chick who dressed up for Halloween. She saw how I did it, and how much fun I was having. The next night, she & I & some others went out again... But this time, for the first time in her fairly long life, she actually went out all dolled-up for Halloween! (Sure, it took a bit of coaxing, and sure, she went with her usual drag queen look, but that's besides the point. :heehee: )

But even an old dog can learn new tricks. The seed had been planted well before that Halloween weekend, with me presenting the way I oftentimes presented in front of her. In her mind, she was like, "Hey, this is a different way of going about all this. Quite different than what I've been doing all along, but I can start to see another spin to it all. So, let's finally give it a whirl!"

And you know what? She had a freakin' blast, that first dolled-up Halloween of hers. :thumbsup:


Bottom line: People should be exposed to the idea of doing different things, perhaps even occasionally stepping out of their comfort zone & giving it a try once. Still not exactly for you? Fine, at least you gave it a go & saw what it was all about, firsthand. Maybe in 6 months, or a year, or 5 years from now, you'll look back, and say, "You know what? That was kinda cool, in a way. I want to finally try that again..."



P.S. My town has a population of like around 12,000 -- is that considered a "small town"? Regardless, I hit the local post office today in guy-mode sporting some work-out leggings with a pretty darn "loud" & femmy-looking print. And I survived to tell you this tale! :D

There are nice people & not-so-nice people everywhere. ;)

And hopefully, while not my intention in doing so, what I wore today may possibly inspire someone who saw me, to gain the "courage" to do something similar someday -- or perhaps simply helped a non-CD'er to understand that I'm just a normal human being doing normal human-being things, who happened to have some cute fabric wrapped around their nice-looking legs... :battingeyelashes:

I'm sorry, but must chime in again. Some here have complained that I give the "community a bad name"!:sad:

Well, that's total BS. Because I have never at any time claimed to represent anyone except me.

What it is, is double speak for, "I don't like how u look dressed". Deebra and others, please just SAY THAT THEN! Leave our "community" out of it. Unless you're Jenny Lyn Boyle or someone that actually works hard to represent us!:thumbsup:

For the record, I feel what you do is absolutely fabulous, sherry! :thumbsup: :worship: :D


And variety is certainly the spice of life... :)

I have to disagree with the OP, everyones circumstances are different. There are numerous ways that one can help our community which don't have to be going out enfemm.

Well the premise of my post certaintly woke up 26 people who largely disagreed with me. That's O.K., each of us are different, I understand, BUT for those that agree with me I do hope to see you in your girl jeans, trying on girl clothes and asserting your right to wear what you like in public. As I said in my post, I'm going shopping today in my embellished boot cut tight girl jeans and girl undies; if you see me, Say Hello, would like to meet another CD.

And wearing this in public I love how it feels and how I present and it's me and feminine and I like it a lot.

Deebra, aside from wearing what where and when, I think that some of the disagreements were based on your suggestion that not doing something hurts the cause. Pick any cause. If I speak, act, contribute, etc. against that cause I may be hurting it. But if I do nothing I'm neither helping nor hurting that cause. "If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" doesn't always apply, but it's often used to shame inaction.
But it was an interesting discussion, demonstrating once again that we're not all the same.

On my part, it's a matter of when I step out presenting female. Not if. . But for the rest - I believe one should do that at one's own pace. You don't have any right to pull another out of the closet, just as you don't have any right either to shove someone back in. As it stands - I don't think I have to be 101% out to be an advocate - there are ways I've done this without making my personal interest apparent. Then again, does it take a fox or even a cow to stand for animal rights?

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Originally Posted by Becky Blue

I have to disagree with the OP, everyone's circumstances are different. There are numerous ways that one can help our community which don't have to be going out enfemm.

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I have to agree with Becky. If a cross dresser ventures out wearing women's clothing it will be obvious his/her opinion of cross dressing is based on being a cross dresser. I think someone does more for any community by opening one's mouth and giving support to those who are being maltreated, demeaned, etc. People really feel comfortable demeaning other groups when they assume the people they are interacting with at the time are 'like minded thinkers.' Confront their ignorance or bias thinking or hatred.

Just another of these threads that attempts to push and bully those of us who are not out doing so to do so. The angle this time, guilt. If we are not out publicly showing ourselves completely we are causing harm.

Good point ReineD makes, even if we all did that 98 out of 100 men will still be shopping in the men's department, as opposed to 99.

Some of us just aren't there. We don't want to be there, we don't need to be there. For some us, transgender is an aspect of our lives, not the entire definition of our lives.

I always wear fem jeans and top almost daily, But I like skirts or dresses at the very least and when I go out to dinner or a movie, I dress competently fem and I do this for myself. It is my refection on how I want to look. I don't want to blend in jeans. I want to look nice and dress up to go out. Yet, to an auto parts store I will wear the jeans. I have noticed that young women also look nice going out. I think they don't do the feminist stuff that the last generation trashed womanhood and run around in sweatpants and a drab top.