Did you get a lot of misinformation or weird advice starting out?

I don't mean about the social aspects but just about presentation.
Though i live this full time now (I do not like any label, I just live) but at one point when I was starting out -
The first thing i wanted to learn about was how to do makeup, how to dress stylish, and what sizes do I even wear.

I wasn't on the web at the time nor did i even own a computer yet (around 1998).

I remember asking other TG or drag queens for advice. I also rummaged books. Books didn't help. They showed a bunch of ideas but didn't cover the basics well at all. Don't even get me started about my adventures trying to track down the completely useless book "Miss vera's finishing school for boys who want to be girls". I will just say when I finally got it, I thought it would have the secrets of how to dress like a woman. After reading it, it went in the trash. Worst $15 I ever wasted on a book.
EDIT - there were also a bunch of boring books I read about the lives of other TG. Things like "My husband betty". THOSE really helped.... not.

Drag queens were saying "Use max factor pan stick and cover it with pan cake and then apply powder". What a great idea. Tammy Faye Baker foundation... :straightface: No thanks.

I talked to a TS lady who I was hoping i could get some help. She meant really well but things she explained were more geared to a TS in serious transition, yet at the time I didn't even know my female shoe size.

So I went to the mall and got a makeover (in the back room so no one would see me). The lady gave me a list of what she used so i could buy it later and duplicate the look. About $200 worth of Elizabeth Arden stuff. At the time I was mostly broke so THAT was not an option. I think I borrowed $50 from my sis to buy (drug store) makeup but i forget what I said the money was for...

With clothing, I realized my only choice to find my sizes was to nervously pick things off the rack at thrift, sneak to the dressing room, see what fit, and note the sizes. Trying to find my bra size was a REAL trip.

Somehow I got all that stuff down pat but was becoming concerned with passing better. I remember hearing things like wearing long sleeves to cover my muscular arms, or wearing 3 pairs of tights to smooth my legs, etc. yeah, THAT is the way to dress... as long as it is not 95 degrees in the dead of summer, THEN what?

As time went on I learned what I was doing but oh my gyod, I would NOT want to go thru the initial learning all over again. Like knowing almost nothing and trying to be secretive about it at the same time.

How did you all finally learn? Was it as much of a mess as I experienced with bad advice/useless books/expensive trial and error?

If your "goal" when you start out is to satisfy your need to present to the world your true self,then we learn over time. What we learn is that it isn't about clothes or makeup,it is about inner confidence. Confidence in your right to be there is the most important aspect of social transition. Glam look doesn't do much for you at the auto parts store..

I started out dressing at home so no makeup or wig. I bought lots of very cheap clothes but still felt clueless. I once went to a certain chain we do not mention and got made up quite badly - way over the top - but I had my own outfit of classic clothes with me. I now had breast forms and I used this 'changeaway' day to get a bra fitting at M&S. The next time I went out I stayed in the Philbeach Hotel in London that I knew was CD friendly and got a taxi to get a free makeover in Oxford Street. I had also arranged colour and style consultation at House of Colour which changed my life. Suddenly I not only knew what I was doing with clothes and makeup but it gave me a massive confidence boost. Wearing clothes that really suit you is a quantum leap from ordinary cross dressing. Yes it was expensive, but it has saved me many times that in clothing mistakes I have avoided. It also means you feel confident enough to buy a £150 dress so it also makes you spend more!

I found the experience so valuable that I repeated it in male mode, and I have been back since for a refresher day as Susan with a different adviser (the first ones moved on). I totally recommend House of Colour - it is not only useful but very enjoyable - and all the people I have met have been very supportive. They also hold events where I am made to feel very welcome. They also get in specialists like Brasense to tell you not only your real bra size but also the right style and I know that she goes to big crossdrssdressing events.

The best advice on dressing in women's clothes and wearing makeup seems to come from those who have been trained to advise women and I think that is where beginners should turn.

When I started out when I was 12, it was in the late 1950's so there was no information then really, had to pretty much dope it out for myself.As far as coming out, it was kind of a crap shoot. :battingeyelashes::)

I started out much the same way, useless books and all. I learned that makeup is just something that takes a little practice. OK, maybe more than a little, and it certainly helps to have a pro get you started, with the right techniques and decent quality products. I have found that I spend less on makeup now that I've stopped buying drug store items.
Sizes? A tape measure will remove most guesswork before you hit the stores. Again, I did have a pro help me with fitting for my first set of breast forms, but most clothing shopping has been uneventful.

I think that most advice handed out, is simply what the person feels helped THEM, to achieve what they managed to become. Nothing more. No guarantees of passing, of magical transformations in your body, of going from a hairy 200 lb male athletic body to a pretty 115 pound female beauty pageant winner's body. It's all just 'This is what I did, to look like this'. And then they might present the ONE, single picture out of thousands, taken at just the right angle, in the perfect lighting, that shows the least give aways that there is anything male about them. You know, kind of like many of our our avatars do: Look absolutely NOTHING like us, where everything was right for one instant.

Yes, I own a dress like the one in my avatar. But thats not me. That picture is what I dream that I could look like. What I really look like, is if you put silly putty on that picture, peeled it back, and pulled it all out of shape (I don't know if you're old enough to remember doing that).

No, none of that. Remember, everyone wants to feel that THEY are normal, so they project their own desires onto others, hoping that we are all the same.

But we're not. We're almost all different. The reasons for crossdressing are so varied, and our goals are as well. Some are happy, just feeling as if we are girls. Some want to lip sync to Diana Ross' songs and be able to move and look enough like her to perform on stage.
We're all a pretty wide range of female impersonators at heart.

So all advice must be taken with a grain of salt. I, too, have read all the books, and found some of them absolutely absurd, but I'm quite sure the person who wrote them felt that everything she wrote was absolutely spot on.

Clothing sizes, well GG's face the same problem. Even same height, same weight, same size girls can vary so much in how much they curve, and where, that what looks great on one will look absolutely terrible on another.

Same with shoes. Then we are trying to cram a much beefier, wider foot which has never spent more than a few minutes in a high heel shaped shoe, into one, with the expectation that that foot will magically change structure as well as how much it can bend?

Which is perhaps why GG's spend so much time trying things on.

Men get spoiled; a 44 long suit can usually be purchased online, and if that's our size, we can be pretty much guaranteed it will fit and be wearable. Not so with women's clothes, and despite our living around women all our lives, it's surprising that so many of us are still clueless about what they go through.

And, just the idea that what will fit a female body snugly and shapely as it is, will also fit a male shaped body is perhaps the height of absurdity. When I found a bra that fit me, all I could think of, was, how sorry I felt for the woman that would fit into it: A huge, barrel chested female with small breasts for her size. Ho lee crap, her life must be an even worse nightmare than mine.

And the forever expectation of passing, well, that's pretty much in the fantasy world unless you're in the very few 1% who are shaped just right, are just the right height, the right weight, with abnormally small hands, feet, feminine face shape, hair growth pattern, and of course have never done a day of manual labor so you're hands are baby soft as well.

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Originally Posted by Nicole Erin

How did you all finally learn?

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What I finally learned, was to accept that I will NEVER pass for a GG unless oh, I'm at least a couple hundred yards away, the viewer needs glasses, and I'm not even moving. The best thing I could do, is accept that I am what I am, just another human being that doesn't fit into the standard cookie cutter designs that the world finds acceptable. And find some way to enjoy some of the little things in life, because the big things are simply as impossible as being able to sprout wings and flying like a bird.

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Was it as much of a mess as I experienced with bad advice/useless books/expensive trial and error?

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Yes. Because none of us grew up as girls, with all the years of learning the things that they do, to look so very good for us. As reflected by the transformation services, the 'how to' books, etc., there is such a weird belief among us, that we can take a course or read a book, and in one afternoon, learn all there is to know what it takes a woman a lifetime to learn. How crazy is that?

Trial and error. First and only makeup for years was lipstick. No going out.

Trial and error (much error) for me also, no info at all when I started out so picked up whatever I could from magazines, make up and clothes catalogues. Took a long time to get anywhere near the look I wanted.

A never ending learning process. ...fortunately it's more acceptable now...but to each her own...whatever u like....what I've found is as is common with most things, u can't force someone to like what u do. I'm fortunate that my wife supports me& on occasion will play the male role with me.

I was 10 when I started, so I had no information or advice.

I learned by trial and error, TG helped very little, drag queens felt I was trying to compete with them no help (venus caringi)and just got a makeover by Rachel and then another by Rori and that really when I saw the woman inside of me. Cloths pretty much the same thrift stores trying on some of wife's cloths to kinda figure out my size. Shoes I went to payless bought my men size in women's and finally went to a cd friendly vendor and he advised me my womans size is 2 sizes bigger then my mens size in shoes. It's just been picking advice from here and there basically.

Oh, yes. I'm a child of the 1950's and 1960's. There was no information available to me. My public library kept its copy of "The Kinsey Report" behind the head librarians desk. Playboy magazine was the only men's magazine at the local newspaper store. The word on the street was cross dressers were homosexuals. Gays and lesbians were deep in the closet. Discrimination was expected.

How could a hot blooded young man/teenager lust after attractive women reconcile the fact he was drawn to wearing women's clothing? I did not believe I was gay. But, then again since I did not know of any gay men how would I know I was not gay? Very confusing. Of course the lack of knowledge lead to self loathing.

I found this site and really found support for myself, even as a senior, knowing there are others out there like me. I think, although youngster may know from reading here there are many like themselves are still unsure of their true identity. With age comes accomplishments. Then you realize you're really like others except for that little quirk.

Started in the early 60's. No support no help. Lipstick was all I ever tried. My moms. Later when I was about 16 went to a few bookstores and got some CD magazines. That was an eye opener knowing I wasn't the only one in the world who felt this way. Learned makeup by looking at how other woman did there's and tried to copy lot of frustration but think I am ok now. Some day I will get a full makeover.

Pretty much the same way as you but I did the help of the internet.
I cruised all kinds of CD sites and saw mostly disgusting porn and over the top drag queen girls ewwwww.
Found this site by accident and have been here ever since.This site helped me more than any book I read on the subject. My Husband Betty sucked so hard I never got thru the entire book.
As I grew I got the nerve to go out and in that process I found a nice trans group to join.
Not an exciting process but thats what happened.

I didn't start dressing seriously until I was almost 40 and that was in the early 80's. The internet was but a child then and no help whatsoever. Thankfully, I had a very supportive spouse that helped immensely. She only did my makeup a couple of times but would sit with me as I did it giving invaluable advice. Like many of us starting out, I gravitated towards the sexy, almost ****ty look and She guided me to a more tasteful look. A big help was Her teaching me the proper way to sit and a tasteful feminine walk (esp. in heels). Many of the extras we need, padding, forms, etc. were only available by mail order and much more expensive then, so we found ways to improvise. Dressing can be a lot of work sometimes but worth the extra, enjoyable effort

I remember people telling me I had to do this and that to get a look and when I would try I looked like a clown hooker.
Anyway I was told I had to do this before I could do that and if I didn't have a June Cleaver outfit there was no way I could be a serious CDer.
Member Karren Hutton sent me a PM saying screw those bitches do it whatever way you want.
She opened my eyes to the fact there is no right or wrong way to do it just what works for you is whats important.

Unlike most here, I am a late bloomer! I only started to understand all this at 65! My best friend was a tape measure and size charts! LOL Shoes were easy as I wear sneakers at work and the uniform shop only had women's sizes so she hooked me up with some Reeboks ! This site was about the third CD site I ran across (not counting porn sites) on the net! It is also the best! There is a lot of info on the net and some of it is not so good! You must sift through it! My $0.02! Hugs Lana Mae

Uhh I wish! I had no information whatsoever. My parents taught me crossdressing was WRONG WRONG WRONG when they caught me doing it at a young age. So for most of my life I've kept it a secret. And I started long before I got into the internet. Only recently am I starting to "come out" to certain people. But yeah I haven't gotten a whole lot of advice until recently. Really the only advice I've gotten is makeup advice from my gf, and Youtube, and it was pretty good advice.

I too was a victim of that horrible Ms Vera book... I think it anonymously ended up being mailed to a racist neighbor I hated so his wife would check the mail and he would have some explaining to do.

How did I learn? Well, when I finally do, I'll give a shout out. :confused:

My husband Betty was a book I read and I'm glad Im not the only that didn't like it or finished reading it. Transformation magazine helped a little with ideas and then it just got too graphic, porn,naked pics and I stopped reading it. This forum has helped a lot and I would like to thank the administrators for an awsome job that they do to keep this page informative and not going down the sewer.

I agree Jennifer trashy sites don't do anything for me.

I've been playing with dressing since I was a kid, so a lot at first was what was available. Later on it was trial and error and just dressing at home, lots of bad buys and wasted money. Only in the last 10 years or so have I figured out my style and really worked out my presentation and confidence.
I was lucky in that I became friends with a consignment store owner who was honest with me in what looked good on me and let me try different styles. Make up became better with practice, asking for advice and learning that sometimes less is better. And of course confidence comes with going out more and more and feeling better about me.

If u did it my way? U may have taken a long time to work things out! I began dressing in a complete void. Everything I did was trial and error for the first 10 YEARS!:eek:

The bad news was how long it took to figure out what I needed to do to become Sherry.:sad:

The good news was how long it took to figure out what I needed to do to become Sherry.:D

Because I learned to do nearly everything MY WAY!:tongueout

Lots of trial and error, and thank god for youtube! And I can't forget a digital camera that shoots movies, has a self timer, a time laps timer, and lots of memory. It has been enlightening reading all of the pitfalls and yes I have made most of them. Thanks you All. Brenda

YouTube is a godsend, it taught me makeup. But even today, I'm still refining it and women often tell me that they wish they could do a smokey eye like I do. But I did go through the pansticks, etc stage - fine for camera and stage, not for mingling in real life. Make friends at your favourite makeup store, it pays off.

Clothes took longer. I knew what style I wanted to wear (updated 50s I call it) but it took forever to track down a decent wardrobe. Before that, I had bought some not-so-great clothes (top tip: clothes produced today are cheap and nasty, buy at thrift and consignment for quality).

The thing that threw me off the most was shoes. I think most of us start with Pleaser garbage, they are so uncomfortable that you buy big sizes and then when you buy 'real shoes' it messes you up and you get something 2 sizes too big. A 12 in Pleasers, a 10 or 11 otherwise.

There's bad advice at the beginning and there is the honing stage where you refine everything. I'm not sure it ever ends!

I learned through the school of hard knocks Makeup, wow took quite a lot of practice for the simple process of makeup. Books did not provide any information. But when I was working as a male I would pretend to be female and observed my GF's and got better at it fairly quickly. Had a a makeover about fifteen years ago and it taught me some things also. But then did not have a chance to dress over about five years and after a purge was amazed to find a lot of my stuff in storage. Dated a few men and that was fun. But men typically want sex and nothing else from a CD. So back to women. Found one that loves me and she helped me put together my latest makeup by getting foundation that matches and how to do that and other pertinent data that only a woman knows. I would agree that confidence is a big part of who we are. Attitude is also something we learned.

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Originally Posted by Tracii G

This site helped me more than any book I read on the subject. My Husband Betty sucked so hard I never got thru the entire book.

I remember people telling me I had to do this and that to get a look and when I would try I looked like a clown hooker.
Anyway I was told I had to do this before I could do that and if I didn't have a June Cleaver outfit there was no way I could be a serious CDer.
Member Karren Hutton sent me a PM saying screw those bitches do it whatever way you want.
She opened my eyes to the fact there is no right or wrong way to do it just what works for you is whats important.

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My husband betty must have had some serious jaw aching going on later...

June Cleaver dress needed to be serious CD'er - who the hell told you THAT?
About karren - yeah, sounds like a typical response she would give.

Yes, there's a lot of weird, silly, and just plain incorrect advice out there. Especially about applying makeup, but there's a lot of incorrect information about finding correct sizes too. You need to have your BS detector on full blast. If something seems weird or overly complicated, it's probably wrong. For example, I remember one YouTube video about applying makeup where the demonstrator spent about 15 minutes doing nothing but brushing his face (without any noticeable change in appearance).

If you're curious about how to detect BS, remember that dressing en femme is just getting dressed. It shouldn't take much longer than putting on male clothing. Add about 10-15 minutes for applying makeup. Otherwise it should take about the same amount of time, or less. You don't need any clothing that you can't buy at Ross Dress For Less, Walmart, or some other ubiquitous chain store. When finding your sizes, go to some place like fullbeauty.com and read the sizing charts and other instructions on how to find your sizes. Do what these sites tell you, and ignore anything else. And remember: crossdressing is easy. If it seems hard, you're almost certainly following bad advice.