Article in newspaper today!

An article in today's local paper caught my eye and has upset me and caused a big fight with my daughter! Michael Shannon(who ever that is?) was a guest columnist! He wrote about (Edit The) decision to get trans service people out of the military! Basicly he said we are all mentally ill and can't be trusted with all that fire power. Siting 2016 Johns Hopkins study " The hypothesis that gender identity is an innate, fixed property of human beings that is independent of biological sex-that a person might be a 'man trapped in a woman's body" or a 'woman trapped in a man's body"-is not supported by scientific evidence." He further states that "A person's sex is coded into every individual cell in the body at the chromosomal level. Believing otherwise doesn't even qualify as superstitious. It is just nuts! He then quotes John Hopkins again saying, "Members of the transgender population are also at higher risk of a variety of mental health problems compared to members of the non-transgender population. Especially alarmingly,the rate of lifetime suicide attempts across all ages of transgender individuals is estimated at 41% compared to under 5% in the overall U.S. population." He goes on about wasting tax dollars for transition but doesn't mention the cost of Viagra, etc!
I was totally pissed at this! My daughter took the neutral stance and said no one would listen to anything I had to say on the matter they are stuck in their opinions and won't change! I told her I did not want to hear any more about it! She then stomped off saying I accused her of supporting their opinion! Now she is not talking to me!
Just had to vent all of this! Sorry!
Thanks?
Hugs Lana Mae

The old adage comes to mind, "Never pass up an opportunity to remain quiet".
Fire suit is on so flame away, y'all.
Jon

So sorry to hear this Lana, unfortunately this study has been out for a while and is being used to push an agenda for the
conservative folks that need something to prove we are all just crazy people. However it's just one opnion on the what and
the why for being trans. There are many other repeatable ones that support our side that says we may well be born this way. We all in here know this is a difficult road we travel so I really hope things can calm down for you and your daughter
and you can talk again about these issues
Rachel Leigh

This guy sounds like a real whim dinger. Anyone can argue this until they are blue in the face. The fact is unless a person is directly involved in it with all of the associated feelings, they will never understand it just citing this and that unless they are empathic. :)

10 foot pole is my analogy.

Lana your daughter will understand someday "why" it is important, and she will come to better know also that you have to disregard a large portion of news columnist as they are not educated experts on the subjects they often write on and literally most of them just take and plagiarize a bunch of crap to get a story out the door in most cases.

Furthermore, it goes to show that people whose rights are not threatened just cannot understand until it happens to them, and believe me at the rate we are going here in the US it will happen to everyone at some point it's just a matter of time.

I think it strange that so many of our 'mentally ill' sisters and brother's hold jobs as service members, first responders, police,doctors,lawyers,politicians,realtors,profes sors,nuclear physicists,artists and business owners.

That these same people can lead long distinguished careers with something that has been private yet when they decide to be open, the very act of disclosure makes them mentally ill.

Is that ridiculous or what ?

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Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter

That these same people can lead long distinguished careers with something that has been private yet when they decide to be open, the very act of disclosure makes them mentally ill.

Is that ridiculous or what ?

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Sure is ! "They "don't know to hate you until you show your real self !

I heard that the Y chromazone can actually explain transgenderism....

Genny B

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Originally Posted by Lana Mae

He further states that "A person's sex is coded into every individual cell in the body at the chromosomal level. Believing otherwise doesn't even qualify as superstitious. It is just nuts!

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I am not a rocket scientist when it comes to biology so feel free to correct me if I don't know my basics.

The vast majority of people are either XX or XY and these might be the ones he was writing about. There are a whole host of long, rare and exotic combinations as well as the SRY gene but we can leave that for a different thread. As far as I know, we haven't yet figured out how to change all the XY's to XX'S. There are immense barriers to doing so but, maybe someday, we will have the technology. With that said, I don't think this statement is entirely wrong.* Please be aware I am making the point to not confuse biological sex with gender identity.

The percentages he quotes regarding suicide attempts seem to be similar to the UCLA Williams Institute survey done a few years ago. The survey was conducted by the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force and the National Center for Transgender Equality. It is available for download if anyone wants to read it.

* with no end quote an educated guess was made as to where the quoted material actually ended. I believe I went two sentences past it.

I hate to say this but those weapons have been in some of the CD TG hands for as long as their has been war.
It has been a case where the subject was simply keep tighter in the closet. Some of the "leaders" were cross dressers. The ability to wage war has nothing to do with gender. The ability to wage was is in direct retrospect as to how dear to the heart the cause of the battles are to the heart of the combatants.

Your daughter is right. Most people, when their beliefs are challenged, will pull back and hold onto them even harder. Something about how much they have invested in that belief in the first place, so they're reluctant to let it go.

What they leave out when quoting all the problems we have, is that nearly all of those mental health problems are due to the feeling we have of being ostracized by the rest of society just for being who we are. Left on our own, TG,TS, CD folks often do fine. It's only when we have to interact with other people who go out of their way to try to make us feel bad about ourselves that we develop most of the psychological problems. We see this in TG/TS children who now have support systems in place where they are accepted for who and what they are, and are allowed to proceed in their lives mostly getting along with other children just fine. It's the adults who are the problem.

What I have NEVER seen are any studies showing any increased tendencies for trans-type folks to exhibit any violent or dangerous-to-others behaviors. any T* people I've ever known have mostly been a better class of people when it right down to it.

Every day, the news is filled with crime stories about shootings, muggings, robberies, etc. Very seldom do you hear of a T* person being involved, unless it is as a victim. And on those few occasions, it's the main lead (ex: CROSSDRESSER robs convenience store) as if that explains why they did it. Funny though, they never say MAN IN PANTS shoots three.

I believe that if they ever did a study about this, it would show that we are actually a better risk per capita than the general public.

Lana, I'm sorry about the disagreement with your daughter. It's always good to vent.

Lana Mae, your post suggests that you were angered by the stupid article and your daughter, remaining neutral, suggested that those people who believed the article would not believe you regardless of what you said. You were already angry and reacted to her and the rest is history. Call her up and tell her you are sorry you took your frustrations out on her. Hug each other. As for the idiot who wrote the article...

Johns Hopkins is a highly respected institution so it shouldn't surprise you that many folks would agree with their study and conclusion. Of course, you have the right to disagree with it but that's not going to change anyone else's beliefs.

Getting all worked up over this won't do anything but elevate your blood pressure. Ignore it and move on with your life.

I'm pleasantly surprised that there has been such strong support for transgender service people - especially considering how new the regulations allowing them (us) to serve is.

It's funny that they would use the word "encoded" to describe how DNA 'fixes' Sex in our genes. It really goes to show how much the author does NOT understand genetics and Biology.

DNA is the expression of a cells potential to be something depending on what is turned 'on' and what is turned 'off' at a particular point in time of the cells life cycle.
We are all have characteristics that change over time while developing from a single cell, at one point we even have gills and a tail. At all times we have the DNA for all characteristics of both Male and Female. science is only beginning to understand the basics of DNA and are finding that there is a possibility that or environment can possibly trigger changes in DNA (think about that before you drink water recycled how many 100's of times with every thing else dumped in the sewer and 'purified' for your consumption).

Want to be bio-luminescent ? Link

While I disagree with the decision on transgender discrimination. It is true that the TG/TS community does have a higher rate of suicide. In my opinion, it is because of the anguish some of us have in not being able to properly express who we need to be rather than who we are.
Transitioning is a hard road ( and I do respect those that do) and for some it may mean losing all and starting from scratch. For some it seems easier to end it all rather than go for what may make them whole. I know there are members here who did consider suicide but instead chose to change their lives and live as they truly feel they need to be,

That's the legacy of Dr. Paul McHugh. He's largely discredited now and Johns Hopkins has rejoined the mainstream medical world: https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.0c73e52352d2

He's caused a lot of pain but his skepticism actually helped us in the long run by making people do the studies and marshal the facts that turned the tide of medical opinion against him. So there's that.

The problem with statistics, even when accurately reported, is that cause-and-effect relationships are not evident. Making assumptions about cause and effect, without an enormous amount of data over many years, is almost always wrong. I have read many life-histories of trans folk, and in some cases I've suspected that the individual in question was not really trans at all. It seemed that the person felt like a failure as a man and decided that having a sex change would fix the problem. The point is: perhaps non-trans people who have mental and emotional problems are drawn to the trans community in an effort to "fix" their problems. This would skew the statistics.

I've read other material that states that transgendered individuals are some of the most ordinary people in the world. This suggests that the statistics would be skewed by painting with too broad a brush. Meaning that certain types of trans behavior signify mental illness and certain types do not, and no effort was made to distinguish between the two.

(Please note: I'm speaking hypothetically here.)

Drawing conclusions based on a single, highly-suspect study is certainly wrong.

Some people are firmly entrenched in their beliefs and nothing will change them. When backed into a corner they will fight back. Not trying to get into politics, but, as an example Trump's support among his ardent followers has not wavered no matter what he does or doesn't do. There is also the herd mentality. Get people together and they will rally around themselves.

We have heard all this crap before, but, with different folks. African-Americans were deemed unfit to fly airplanes in World War 2. It took years for the United States Marine Corp to allow African-Americans to be placed in combat units. The Navy did the same. Women banished to the kitchen. Whenever someone has a bias, they can come up with some warped reasoning to support their stance.

I think the daughter is echoing what many say. No matter what one says, the person will never change his or her mind. As to her neutrality on the issues, she does need some education. I would suggest to Lana that she pour a glass of wine, cool down and try to have a conversation with her daughter. Direct her to some sites or reading material on the subject.

Those Congressmen who have proposed getting rid of transgender men and women in uniform or barring them from the military basically are bigots. I watched their news conference and non verbal communication (tone, gestures, etc) and choice of words and phrases told me they are just close minded outright bigots. If it was 1940's they would be barring the Tuskegee airmen from flying in combat. Some much for an early morning rant.

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Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter

We are all have characteristics that change over time while developing from a single cell, at one point we even have gills and a tail.

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This theory was developed by Ernet Haeckel in 1876. It was used to promote a religious viewpoint, abortion and Hitler's rise to power. It was discredited over 100 years ago as being utter nonsense. Unfortunately, many in academia so badly wanted it to be true that it was taught to our children as late as the mid 1980's.

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I always disliked that Klinger was trying to get out of the military via "Section 8". It seemed to add to my shame. Even when I was a kid, I knew my crossdressing wasn't a choice. But today, I don't care whether it's found to be genetic or not. I am who I am.

First of all, the guy from Johns Hopkins didn't write a scientific paper, but a scientific editorial, His so called paper has been largely dismissed by real scientists, but T haters always refer to him when putting down T people.

Another fact. Not everything about a person is encoded in the DNA. Some differences are environmental, the old nature vs nurture debate.
Some differences are developmental, in other words, they happen in the womb independent of DNA. There is a lot of developing evidence that TS occurs because of a hormonal imbalance in the womb. The genitals (the internal and external parts) develop in the first trimester, typically based on the DNA. However, the brain develops in the second trimester, and is influenced to some greater or lesser degree by hormones. So, an XY (male) get a penis and testicles in the first trimester but gets a high dose of estrogen in the second trimester that feminizes the brain.

At one time, most people thought that the Earth was flat. They were wrong; we now know that the Earth is round. I believe that in the near future, doctors won't pull out a baby and check off M or F based on a visual examination of the parts. They will do an MRI to make sure that the brain and the parts align before checking off M, F or NB (non-binary).

As for your daughter, some people will never believe what they can't see, except that they will believe in someones interpretation of a creation story.

Some people always want to find a boogie man,to blame for what ever is wrong with them. Iam who iam and I love me enough said. Let me live how I wanna live.

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Originally Posted by Nikki A.

It is true that the TG/TS community does have a higher rate of suicide. In my opinion, it is because of the anguish some of us have in not being able to properly express who we need to be rather than who we are.

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I agree with that.
If you have something that is just as much a part of you as anything else that makes up any other individual, and you have to hide it so you don't endure public shame.Society in general for many years forced us into the closet, they told us people like us are sick, peverted, and automatically going to hell. There is the constant threat of violence because some people can't stand anything that goes against social norms. It ruins their life that some people are not "normal" somehow, and they have the nerve to say we are mentally ill. I say they are mentally ill not us.

They have in part caused the depression and the suicidal tendencies that so many suffer, then dare to judge people affected by the damage they have done.

Gender dysphoria is in the DSM. Is that bad? On one hand it compels insurance companies to have to pay for some therapies and treatments. On the other hand, it could be seen as a reason to exclude one from the military. It being a mental illness has resulted in a couple cases in federal prison getting treatments that they would not have got.

Lana,
This reminds me of the documentary made by an ex UK marine on the US bathroom bill, some of the bigoted comments reduced her to tears .

I would say your daughter's problem is with you not being all dad to her, and not the LGBTG community in general . I'm not sure how old she is but maybe she should stomping around in a childish way and open her mind to the real World . My daughter is almost the opposite and tries to see everyone's point of view, unfortunately she is a sucker for every cause good or bad .I'm very grateful I have her full support but have to intervene when she argues over me with my wife , she does have enough of her problems with an autistic daughter , I have to keep that issue in mind and not talk my own problems with her to much .

Lana Mae, Apologize to your daughter. It wouldn't matter in a year from now an she is so much more important that that strange article. If you don't like what he says. You can send him a response. And your daughters responses is a young one and she will understand on day. So take that into consideration.

Too many times we hear of and read about articles of a contentious nature and sadly there will always be people who believe in what they see, read and hear. Offspring will often have fiery outbursts or take umbrage over something. My ex's daughter was just like this one innocent word and she would fly off the handle, stomp off and not speak to her mother sometimes for months before a happy medium was struck.
I put a lot of this down to maturity.
Lana, I do not know how old your daughter is but could this maturity and level of understanding actually be the root cause of all of this?