The Trans Regret Movement

As much as I hear stories of trans in the news, there seems to be an other side of Transsexuals who regretted their transitions. A lot of these people are used to claim that gender reassignment isnt the answer.

Do you think its just a case of these people misdiagnosed or mistakenly thought they were transexual? Perhaps some people are transsexual and some people are gender fluid. Maybe a few do have other issues. Its possible that both sides exist. Rather then there being one right answer.

I just think its an interesting debate. Because it confuses me when I hear the counter stories.

The highest profile "regretter" is Charles Kane, a very rich playboy who decided to try a Designer Vagina thinking it would help him bed more people. He didn't suffer from Gender Dysphoria and bought his way past all the checks and balances that some members like to pretend are just Gate Keeping. It didn't make him more sexually attractive so he reversed the procedure and set about telling everyone he could about the evil people who force you to transition.

There is a website that takes trans peoples words out of context to try to create a (false) narrative of trans regret. The author of that website apparently has no regard for truth.

There are a number of people who cannot cope with the realities and often the loneliness of transition and we mourn their loss.

Finally, there may be a few who were non-binary before we understood much about that condition and who may have thought that transition was their only option. Fortunately, you do not have to be male bodied to be non-binary

I agree with Riana's post but think that there Ã*re additional issues and complexities that need to be explored.

And, of course, I do not agree with those who use regret or any other issues in an attempt to undermine or distort the reality of transgender.

That said, however, I do think that transition is not for everyone, that there should be no guilt nor negativity attached to a decision to return to one's birth gender or to explore options outside of binary gender transition.

There are, without a doubt, individuals who transition and who do genuinely regret transition but having openly told family, friends, and the world of their transition feel that there is no way to return. I believe this accounts for a considerable number of post transition suicides.

Just as we support and welcome those who are in the process of transition I think we need to support those who wish to return. Not only are we then helping those individuals, we are helping to defuse the argument of those who use regret against us.

People who make mistakes in choosing to transition are to be expected. I know of one personally who detransitioned. It is a difficult decision and one that should not be judged by others. Society still has a bias to binary gender expression, and some people will neither fit one nor the other. I see the younger generations being more accepting of gender diversity, so my hope is that we will eventually all have a place somewhere on the gender spectrum that is respected.

Still most detransition accounts that I have read seem to leverage the complaint: "no one told me that this would happen......" as if they had no responsibility for due diligence in deciding to transition in the first place. While there are resources that will help one transition, the ultimate decision and responsibility rest with the individual. Accounts where a detransitioner now regrets their decision and places blame on those who supported their choice are harmful to the vast majority of those whos lives were saved by transition, and plays into the hands of those who want to stigmatize us as unstable.

I just saw another account today in my Facebook feed that came from "The Federalist", a conservative group that has featured several articles critical of the Trans identity.

As one who is just starting this transistion journey I worry about this at times, will I regret this can I go back without looking foolish. Yes I have these thoughts but as each day goes by in this beginning I find how much I’ve already changed
my outlook is more positive and others I interact with have noticed this too.
I’m aware that there will be some downs but I do belive this is right for me
Rachael

Up until recently most of the cases of regret I had read of were people who got bottom surgery and later realized they weren't TS but were actually some form of non-binary transgender person. Their biggest complaint was that there was not enough information about alternatives available. Their medical team was focused on TS transitions and they failed their gate-keeper/check-and-balance role.

Lately someone's been flogging a study out of Eastern Europe that shows 7 out of some number like 5,000 had regret and tried reversal. While I have total sympathy for anyone who ends up in that situation, I'd honestly be shocked if there weren't some number of people who end up with regret. My assumption is they went through the process focused on a goal and not paying attention to their own big picture until they had "achieved" it and only then realized it wasn't what they wanted. I see it happen in so many other endeavors I can't believe it wouldn't happen here as well.

Rachel, I think it is correct and healthy for you to question yourself. Don't take an irreversible step if you're unsure. But don't let "I dare not wait upon I would / Like the poor cat i' the adage." (Wow - look at me quoting MacBeth....)

The only “regret movement” is the one invented and flogged by the haters.

I completely agree with LeaP, the only regret movement is fuelled by haters. I'm sure there are some people out there that regret transitioning and most likely these are the ones that rushed thru all the checkpoints.

I met one person during my surgery a couple weeks ago that said they had no idea they were trans until they watched the Caitlyn Jenner interview two years ago. Had no signs of gender issues and it never crossed their mind until they watched that show... and two years later they had their GRS the same day as me. She said she was a woman, but made zero effort presenting as one. I seriously thought she was non binary at best and I could not sense any femaleness to her at all.....These are the ones in my mind are going to have a hard time in life and may come to regret it in the future.

DressyJenny,
I guess it's part of the reason why it takes time to proceed through transition in the UK if you go the NHS route , by the time you reach the surgical stage you're fairly certain .
We have TS members at the social group , it's good to talk to them to fully understand exactly what it means and the sacrifices you make to achieve it.
Even if the surgical side goes well the relationship side can go badly wrong , losing the support you thought you had can be devastating .

I've finally realised that I'm not confused over the sexual issues but have problems with gender identity , that is down to AGP in my case , the confusion I have is others with AGP have transitioned to satisfy the need to be seen and accepted as a woman . That seriously is quite a driving force at times , I believe I'm partly going through a separation to satisfy that need , so it will be a social transition for me .

The question I've asked before is what happens when the T level drops , I read on another forum that some people's needs changed when the T level diminished naturally or by hormones . I also asked an expert in this field and the examples I received were inconclusive .

Some might say we get so hung up on labels they almost block thoughts on living comfortably as we feel , we use the label and feel compelled to achieve it . We are never going to get this 100% right we know we are at odds with mainstream society , there are two battles going on , one internal and one external , so finding true peace and contentment is going to be difficult at times .

LeapP,
I'm not sure I agree with that, the decision is a tough call, some are bound to get it wrong but to say it's only haters can't be right in all cases.

My response addressed the notion of a “movement” - not whether the vanishing few talk themselves into a disaster.

This is a discussion in search of a problem.

I am now living full time as a woman and I am very happy with my decision to pursue transitioning. In am now on HRT and hope to have SRS in the next 2 years. Before ever starting transitioning I put myself through a lot of tests to make sure transitioning would be right for me.

It can be expected there will be a few who will regret transitioning, but for a lot of us it has made our lives a whole lot better. The haters are only focusing on people who regret transitioning and not on people who are happy they transitioned.

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Originally Posted by Sheren Kelly

I just saw another account today in my Facebook feed that came from "The Federalist", a conservative group that has featured several articles critical of the Trans identity.

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I think thats the article that I saw too. It sounds like the two subjects had poor professional care that rushed them through the steps of transition. Which I can see where that would lead to a big issue after transition. You should never transition if there is some doubt.

I think a major issue here is the recent trend of transition in minors and whether they are ready to transition at such a young age. Is puberty blockers damaging if the person ultimately decided they are not transgendered? But I suspect this is on a case by case basis as well. Nothing should be done lightly.

I probably shouldn't have used the word movement in the title. It was really meant to be a discussion about trans regret and concerns it might bring up. The discussion is really good so far. Thanks.

Yes, the Federalist. If you look hard enough, I sure you'll find some who regrets the change. Buy when you have an advocacy position, there is a large possibility of slanting the story.

There are a few writers that seem to be constantly advocating an anti trans view.

My view is, "Be careful what you wish for." And I ignore them.

In making such a life changing decision, it is inevitable that there will be some who will regret making the change. But the number seems to be very small compared to those who are happy with their decision. Some will rush into this without going through all the protocols, others are simply trying to get away from one life thinking that this choice will be easier or better.
As for myself, I have thought about it and I'm still not sure what path I will ultimately travel, maybe I will just decide to stay in the middle and just live a bit in both worlds. So far, this is the path I am taking

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Originally Posted by Teresa

I've finally realised that I'm not confused over the sexual issues but have problems with gender identity , that is down to AGP in my case , the confusion I have is others with AGP have transitioned to satisfy the need to be seen and accepted as a woman.

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Teresa, The so-called condition of AGP is a discredited attempt by Ray Blanchard to pretend that all Transsexuals are sexually deviant homosexual men. His so-called research has been thrown out by the medical and psychological communities all around the world. I am aware that there are some in the Male to Female Crossdressing forums who have proudly adopted this discredited theory and to label themselves as sexually deviant homosexual men - even in some cases whilst telling us about their great relationship with their wives - however, amongst transsexuals this made-up condition is seen for what it is - an attempt to smear us and to prevent us from receiving the correct treatment.

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Originally Posted by Teresa

the decision is a tough call, some are bound to get it wrong but to say it's only haters can't be right in all cases.

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I am going to have to take issue with you again. Haters invent things to use against us, or they distort the truth by misquoting people such as happens on the "trans regret" website. They deliberately do as much harm as they can, even to the extent in some cases of indirectly causing the death of a trans person.

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Originally Posted by DressyJenny

I think a major issue here is the recent trend of transition in minors and whether they are ready to transition at such a young age. Is puberty blockers damaging if the person ultimately decided they are not transgendered?

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Jenny, I believe that puberty blockers have been used in other circumstances for quite a long time with no documented cases of harm to the recipient. I seem to recall a mention of their use in the 1970s in a case that was not trans related but cannot find the reference. As far as I can see, the "dangers" are all in the minds of those who oppose human rights for trans people.

"I've finally realised that I'm not confused over the sexual issues but have problems with gender identity , that is down to AGP in my case , the confusion I have is others with AGP have transitioned to satisfy the need to be seen and accepted as a woman . That seriously is quite a driving force at times , I believe I'm partly going through a separation to satisfy that need , so it will be a social transition for me .

The question I've asked before is what happens when the T level drops , I read on another forum that some people's needs changed when the T level diminished naturally or by hormones . I also asked an expert in this field and the examples I received were inconclusive ."

No wonder you are confused

The driving force to transition is that you are a woman. End of story... nothing to do with what gives us orgasms.

The reason to drop your T hormone level is that you are a woman.... what it does to your sexuality is just bringing it inline with who you are...

if dropping your T level makes you forget about living and being a woman, that's fixable, its not trans regret, its adjusting the medical treatment of Gender dysphoria

making it any more complicated will cause nothing but problems

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Originally Posted by Rianna Humble

Jenny, I believe that puberty blockers have been used in other circumstances for quite a long time with no documented cases of harm to the recipient.

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I see they're used in the treatment of precocious puberty (defined as onset of puberty more than 2.5 standard deviations before the societal average -- it varies by race and country.) It looks like it was first defined in 1969 so it might be a case of that you're recalling. One source said that there are 200,000 cases per year in the US.

Is this about transition (alone), transition with SRS, both??

Regret rates typically relate to surgery. SRS regret rates are exceedingly low. Moreover, when there ARE regrets, they are more often about surgical complications - not regretting having the surgery per se.

I don’t see a problem here. Trying to morph it into a discussion over youth transition raises a host of other issues. Still, I don’t see regret there as a problem, either.

Again, a thread in search of a problem.

The idea of regret and de-transition has many reasons. Some think that transition will fix all ones problems. Some are not properly diagnosed with other conditions.

Again some history.
In the dark ages there was very little restrictions on who or how people got HRT and/or SRS. It was mainly left to the surgical teams for their requirements for SRS. HRT was the domain of GPs Psychiatrists or Endocrinologist. Prior to WPATH was few if any Gender Identity Clinics or Gender Therapists.

During my process in 1974-1977, No WPATH or clinics. My Psychiatrist relied on Harry Benjamin's 1966 book, The Transsexual Phenomenon. I would have had a harder time to transition under some of the new WPATH/SOC that was to come. Most surgeons required time with HRT and full-time RLE of a year. I had about 1.5 year of HRT, but lived as a female part-time, about 6 months except for work. My employer had legal problems with my working as a female, as I was not legally/physically female. The surgeons agreed to shorten mine to 6 months more after my employer agreed to my full-time RLE.

"WPATH was originally named the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association, after Harry Benjamin, MD (1885-1986). Dr. Benjamin was one of the first physicians to work with gender dysphoric persons."

"In 1979 the Harry Benjamin International Gender Dysphoria Association was formed, using Benjamin's name by permission. The group consists of therapists and psychologists who devised a set of Standards of Care (SOC) for the treatment of gender identity disorder, largely based on Benjamin's cases, and studies. It later changed its name to The World Professional Association for Transgender Health (WPATH), but still reveres its links to Harry Benjamin."

From what I gathered that the early WPATH and SOC, was heavily reliant on "GateKeepers". They had some very weird and restrictive ideas. And they were applied differently in different countries.
They have modified many of that over the years.
There may be some here that transitioned in the 80s-90s that can share some light on the evolving WPATH/SOC.
There are many new TG/TS that want to eliminate any kind of Gatekeeping and use "Informed Consent".
Obviously people of means can always find ways around any use of WPATH/SOC.

This topic scares the hell out of me. I'm newly trans, not a crossdresser any more. I might transition or I might not. I've read of people who have taken hormones and then stopped. This is good if that is what they need to do. The best thing I know how to do is to take my time and explore myself. Every movement to transition must be a questioning point, not a goal. I don't want any regrets.

Some people live very unhappy lives or r just unhappy folks for any number of reasons. GD, money, family, friends, no partner, bad marriage, bad job, etc., etc. It's reasonable for most of these people to wish to be happy. And may key their happiness to certain changes in their life.

Win the lottery.
Find the man/woman of their dreams.
A better job.
A divorce.
Join a social club.
Change their gender.

In my experience, when your happiness depends on outside events/changes/people, u may be disappointed. Some people r positive in nature, others the opposite. Inevitably, some people will find the change that was supposed to magically change their life didn't! :sad:

Some people regret their transition because they later realized that they were never actually a transsexual to begin with, but were in reality suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder (DID). This is a condition where a person creates an alternate personality (i.e. a dissociative identity) as a coping mechanism to deal with childhood [sexual] abuse or some other severe traumatic event. This is what happened with Walt Heyer, one of the most vocal 'trans regret' activists out there. He was sexually abused for many years by multiple relatives. There is also a fairly recent account (just this year) of a formerly active member at Susan's Place who went as far as having bottom surgery (orchi) before realizing that he actually had DID and wasn't actually transgender. He was fully convinced that he was trans and had even appeared on television talk shows to advocate for the trans community. These examples are part of the reason why it's important to talk to a therapist and to be fully honest to both them and yourself about your entire life history, in order to make sure there aren't any underlying issues of DID.

There's also a very real danger of getting SRS done and later regretting that decision. I think Lynn Conway does a pretty good job of listing some examples of SRS regret at her website link here. I personally believe that it's especially dangerous for someone who is, or used to identify as, a crossdresser to transition. The story of Dani Bunten Berry should be required reading for those who used to identify as CD and intend to have SRS. It is a very sad cautionary tale.

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Originally Posted by AmandaM

The best thing I know how to do is to take my time and explore myself.

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Amanda,
If you follow through on your own advice you will not have regrets. Just do explore yourself, take your time and know that you are truly transgender before doing anything that is not reversible. Also I totally agree with Kaitlyns comment that "the driving force for transition is that you are a woman. End of story." There is no other reason that should warrant taking hormones or undergoing any surgery that can impact the rest of your life. Also perhaps you should explore what has changed that where before you said you were a crossdresser now you are newly trans. I don't think these issues need to scare the hell out of you but you have to take them very seriously, explore them and I'd go as far as saying to seek professional help from a psychologist who deals with transgender issues. I believe then you will find the answers that are right for you.

Wasn't trying to scare anyone or say I agreed with the naysayers. Was just curious what the rebuttal to these people were. Since it was a different viewpoint than the ones on our side. But I could definitely see where someone that rushes into transition with the wrong help could have this problem. But its irresponsible for thet side to just assume all transexuals will regret their transition just because they did . Everyone is there own person.

On puberty blockers. The article mentioned something about Jazz (the transgendered teen with he own reality show) had trouble with getting the SRS she wanted because there wasn't enough material to work with due to the blockers. Not sure how accurate that is or isn't. I always thought the blockers did nothing permanent. But I am not a doctor.

This is why therapy is a must. I had six intake sessions, where the possibility of being full-on transsexual came up, and have been referred to a gender therapist. The first therapist encouraged me to incorporate more fem things into my life slowly, take stock of how I feel, and then add more as I go. She said you have to go down the road to see where you end up. I may stop before SRS, no way to know. It's better than having a therapist be a cheerleader egging you on.

Some level of dissociation is common. I have my own issues with it. True DID, however, is extremely rare.

Amanda, I think your approach is very mature, level headed and will serve you well. I think you are doing exactly the right thing. I wish you all the best in finding the path in life that is right for you whatever that ultimately will turn out to be.

I have studied a lot of cases of transition gone wrong or transition regret over the years. Before I do something permanent to myself (I am now eligible for an orchiectomy), I wanted to be absolutely sure.

Typically there is one of either two things going on when someone transitions and is not actually transgender: 1) Transitioning for the reactions they will get from other people, rather than for their own internal satisfaction; and 2) Underlying mental illness.

In category 1) I've seen very feminine gay men begin transition because they wanted to make themselves more attractive to men and for no other reason. I've also seen at least one case of transition regret where the individual in question became a very attractive woman at the age of 20. He even worked as a stripper for a while. Then at 40 he decided to detransition. As a male at 40, he presented as a hyper muscular body builder, with far larger musculature than anyone could achieve at the gym without some chemical help.

In category 2) there are actually three conditions that can cause someone to think they are transgender: a) Dissociative identitity disorder, which has already been discussed, b) bipolar disorder. Bipolars who are in the manic phase will often get interested in something, especially if they see someone else having a good time with it or getting attention, then become obsessed with it, and pursue it until their obsession is sated -- at which point the regret kicks in. Or the experience they hoped for simply will not live up to their expectations. c) Borderline personality disorder. BPD results in someone who does not have a strong sense of identity to begin with, so they have a tendency to borrow or adopt identities that they see as better than their own.

The gatekeepers in the medical profession are supposed to stop folks like this from transitioning, but some folks with these conditions are very intelligent, clever and resourceful, and they know how to say all the right things to get what they want.

At any rate, the right thing to do is to be careful, take your transition slow, and try your best to see and listen to the empirical evidence of what your own body is telling you. I know from eighteen months of hormones that I am far better off with zero testosterone in my body. And estrogen just feels lovely. I love having boobs, even if they are small. I love looking, feeling, and being feminine. And none of it is about affecting or attracting other people, although interacting as a woman makes me feel far better than living as a man ever did. I always felt clueless and lost living as a man, and as a woman I am confident and self assured.

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Originally Posted by OCCarly

The gatekeepers in the medical profession are supposed to stop folks like this from transitioning, but some folks with these conditions are very intelligent, clever and resourceful, and they know how to say all the right things to get what they want.

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I don't know about gate-keepers, but following the WPATH Standards Of Care would have diagnosed the co-morbidity in a number of the cases that you describe and would have ensured that those conditions were addressed. Unfortunately I have seen many people who advocate what they call Informed Consent which usually means "I'm paying you to do what I want" (rather like Charles Kane). True informed consent is part of the WPATH SOC and means that the practitioner discusses the pros and cons of treatment and of alternatives to gain the agreement of the patient.

There will probably still be some who continue despite the diligence of the medical and psychiatric communities and who later discover that they are not transsexual, albeit they could be transgender.

OCCarly, Two points: I’m bipolar. I can testify to the drive, focus, and hyper activity of the manic phase (as can everyone around me). It’s not a cause of GD. BPD - in some - includes a less than firm sense of self. That is not the same as not having a true self. Anyone with this issue would self-correct quickly as they ran into the ensuing conflicts, even if they couldn’t see them coming. BPD may be a consequence of GD, however. (Bipolar is chemical.)

Your category 1? Truly gay men are attracted to other gay men, and THEY do not wish to be with women, trans or otherwise.

People that are not transsexuals cannot suffer from "trans regret"
I feel for someone that makes a mistake, but its got nothing to do with transsexuals... its another sympton of co-opting trans identity..
transsexuals get no end of grief for being "trannier than thou"
...well in this case they are.. and therr well documented medical treatment is put at risk by people going down this path..

transsexuals that regret transition almost always are responding to suffering imposed on them , plans that failed, money issues, and co morbid conditions that made transition risky , people that didnt support them(especially wives), unrealistic expectations..
medical pros should be on the lookout for all these risks and do what they can to help folks guard against those things..
if your wife's support is included in your calculus, you need to work that out before transition not after, and you have to be ready for her to change her mind when it gets real.
no surprise to me...transition can be brutal especially for older folks....the world is so unfriendly to us in so many ways ..

a much bigger issue is trans regret around not transitioning, or at least getting to express your gender enough to feel right about yourself..
...whether its because of personal reasons, money, health, safety whatever... that's trans regret.

i see this especially in my generation that grew up in the dark about all this..most of us alone in it

where are the articles on these folks? the 20/20 show highlighting their struggles? the studies of health outcomes? not juicy enough...doesnt fit with either agenda

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

People that are not transsexuals cannot suffer from "trans regret"
I feel for someone that makes a mistake, but its got nothing to do with transsexuals... its another sympton of co-opting trans identity..

...

transsexuals that regret transition almost always are responding to suffering imposed on them , plans that failed, money issues, and co morbid conditions that made transition risky , people that didnt support them(especially wives), unrealistic expectations..

...transition can be brutal especially for older folks....the world is so unfriendly to us in so many ways ..

a much bigger issue is trans regret around not transitioning, or at least getting to express your gender enough to feel right about yourself..
...whether its because of personal reasons, money, health, safety whatever... that's trans regret.

i see this especially in my generation that grew up in the dark about all this..most of us alone in it

where are the articles on these folks? the 20/20 show highlighting their struggles? the studies of health outcomes? not juicy enough...doesnt fit with either agenda

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My God, what a terrific reply.

As one in just the beginning stages of a late in life transistion much of what I’m reading here is quite helpful. It gives me a lot of things to consider. I already plan on going slow and I for one believe that HRT may be all I need to be me and live
my life in the female presentation. So far I’m quite comfortable presenting as female just about anywhere I go.
However to do this 24/7 has some pitfalls but I’m going slow and making sure this is truly the right course and path
This is a wonderful timely discussion
Rachael

I'm transitioning I have a lot of regrets, but I wish I would have started HRT 30 years sooner. (my regret is fighting it so long)
hers a picture of my last Doctor app. just the other day HRT since Jan 2017..

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Originally Posted by LeaP

My God, what a terrific reply.

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Amen, Kaitlyn and LeaP.

:) Lallie

Oh the what if's .... before getting married
Before kids before grandkids ..... before health issues


What if I had before ... some are on ether side
I know that I should have at least I think I should have
A day dose not pass that I think I should have

I don't fit in a male body ... my fem sledge is so incomplete
Both of me are not right ... what if .....
What is more wrong ?? To have your mind
And body right then regret doing so ???
Or not doing so and stuck with the what if's ?


I think that before you do not only do you
Need to go to therapy .. you need and must
Go and think is this the answer is this going to complete
Me ? Or am I going to be more broken
With the "fix" ?

Don't trust a person outher than you to
Guide you

I simply can’t imagine having started HRT without the absolute knowledge that I was TS. I’m always dubious of the Person claiming to be TS that doesn’t want to lose male sexual function or have SRS. Generally a fascination with overly feminine clothing and big breasts accompanying the desire to transition with these people... at least the ones I’ve observed. Hey, What could go wrong, right?
Testosterone and fetishism used as a paraphilia have proven out to be powerful aphrodisiacs, enough apparently to lead some to think they're TS and begin to transition. This person trying to maintain male function is also keeping a testosterone level that's not female and is allowing those things to stay in play. Eventually they will get a BA and then SRS as the logical conclusion to complete the picture they have in their heads since they’ve exhausted everything else that can be done. Of course, once the SRS is performed, the T levels drop, the paraphilia loses its lure and regret sets in since now, the "thrill" is gone. If you’re going down a rabbit hole, any rabbit hole, you need to make sure its your rabbit hole and there are no snakes in there:sad: .
I doubt this happens terribly often, but I suspect it happens.

I can't believe how ignorant the haters are, how they distort things to win an argument they have no standing in. To carry their logic forward, marriage should not be allowed because so many come to regret being married.
Crusading snobs!

excellent!! +1

the marriage regret movement!!! LOL....

sorry religious right folks...there are some folks that have nothing to do with you getting divorced... so from now on, you cant get married... perfect...

Oh my yes marriage regret that is a great comparison.
Love it