The Counseling Session & Be Careful Who You Tell!!!

Friday my wife and I went to our first counseling session. One of the three major issues she brought up was about me dressing. There was no if, and's, or but's about it that she wants it all gone. She said she cannot handle any more of the clothes or the thought of me dressing. Mind you she's never seen me dressed or anything. She said that she cannot deal with the fact and it must be gone. She said this is a deal breaker for our marriage and that if I can't get rid of it all then we'll have to start making alternative plans. This also must be agreed upon with the two other major issues we have at hand as well. I have not told her yet but I have started somewhat of a journal and letter to explain to her how I plan to stop the dressing and that I will get rid of it all. Part of my response to her will be the fact that I have kept it hidden 41 of the 44 years of my life and that I can put it back away. I know it will be hard and it's not something I can quit cold turkey but I will and have to do this in order to save our marriage. My marriage is more important than me continue to dress. Am I going to suffer, somewhat yes, but I think I'm taking the lesser of two evils. This will be something I must put away.

Also in conjunction with her ultimatum I also found out but in an indirect way that she told her best friend. I know that we all have friends and that we must have someone to talk to. But I also had explained to her when I first told her and thereafter that no one ever knew but her. Well now unbeknownst to me she told her best friend. I feel as if it wasn't her place to tell nor should she have ever said anything at all but I also understand it was a lot to deal with. I just wished she had talked to me about it. I have always been open and honest with her when she's asked questions or made comments about these things.

I also say be careful who you tell because over time since I did tell her, there were a few other people I had thought about telling. Something in me said no you don't have to say a word. Call it coincidental but there shortly after thinking of telling that person something or another came up and I thought to myself I'm glad I didn't say anything to them because that could've been another disaster and another issue to deal with and I don't need anymore.

So maybe after all the aforementioned things it's probably best that I do put those feelings and desire away and move on without them. Am I denying myself something that has been a part of me since birth?... Yes. But it's cause too much turmoil in the last 2-3 years and I can't let it do more damage. So hiding it for another 40+ ain't going to hurt. But for now all I can do is take the backseat and ride the wave of life.

With sadness and tears,
Nikki

Nikki;

I respect your decision. Is it realistic to expect to try to quit cold turkey ? or are you going back in the closet ?

Also what kind of counselor are you two seeing ? What was the counselors thoughts on the subject ?

Your spouse talking to a friend is actually normal for most women, although doesn't be surprised if it doesn't end with just her one friend.

Wow Nikki, that is so sad. I also respect your decision to comply with her ultimatum. That's a risk of coming out after the marriage started, I guess. The wife that wasn't told beforehand can either accept it or they can't. I'm not saying she's right, and I really don't like her doing it to you, but I suppose I can understand her point at some level.

And as far as her telling her friend, that's completely normal for her to need to talk to someone. I personally don't think it's ever fair to come out to someone and then swear them to secrecy.

Best wishes on saving your marriage.

Well, I get that and all, but I am curious as to the reaction of the counselor. One thing I am struggling with, in a similar situation, is how everything is my fault, and not being able to defend myself. Plus the idea of no real give and take. I thought the counselor was supposed to at least.throw you a bone or two there.

Good luck Niki, however I've got a problem here with one sided ultimatums. While I applaud you in wanting to save the marriage I think it better that you and your wife consider boundaries for your dressing, something both you and her can agree on.
My experience for me is my wife set some for me but unfortunately I was unable to hold to them and at least now I know
it's because I am trans and could not hide who I was. For you it may be different but totally stopping will be most difficult
and could be mentally harmful.
I hope you can work through this
Rachael

I hope you're right that it won't bother you to put the genie back into the bottle. I wasn't able to do it permanently. I had stopped completely by my early twenties, I got through the '80's okay, but by mid 90's the crossdressing genie was pushing out of the bottle again. I really thought that I had beaten it, but I was wrong.

So, you fell into the honesty trap; you're not the first, and certainly won't be the last. Women want us to be honest with them, but then aren't always happy with the results. To me, their insistence about always being honest, really just means that what they REALLY want, is for you to tell they what they want to hear. When that doesn't happen? Oh, then they need to talk about it, and of course, the one they talk about it with, WON'T be you! Unfortunately, now you can probably expect the whole town to know eventually, as this is juicy gossip that girls love to spread around and giggle about. We're one of the few groups that apparently no one sympathizes with, and are still fair game for ridicule to the rest of the world.
I'm not sure what to tell you; but I get the feeling that the therapist sympathizes with your wife, rather than you. So now you're in a bind: Quit, or go back in the closet so deep that she won't know that you're doing it. Having gone the 'angry wife' route myself, it might feel like a no-win situation.

And always, always remember: Before telling anyone a secret, consider the worst possible result, and only proceed if you are sure you can deal with it should it come to that. Because the number of people who can keep a secret? ONE.

Great post, Nikki! There's some lessons in your post for ALL CD's!:straightface:

1. Don't tell anyone that doesn't need to know. U r putting an unneeded burden on them to keep your secret!:sad:

2. (This ones for u, Nikki). Don't assume u can quit something u enjoy for a loved one without BUILDING UP HOSTILITY TOWARD THEM! Which could destroy your love and relationship with that person(s). :Angry3:
Been there, done that!:doh:

Sad to here of you troubles. I totally understand your position. If your wife is anything like mine she will not give an inch on this ever. Your only choice is to stop completely and don't look back. I couldn't do it, i did try. I've been separated for almost 3 years after 30years of marriage . It wasn't the only thing but it was the final nail. Yes it's all my fault. I thought it was the end of my life, as it's turned out it's just the beginning. So you see I do understand your position and wish you the best.

Nikki, I gather that you are 44 years old. You have a long life ahead and should think about where you will be in those years ahead. I'm pessimistic that you will be able to "put it all away". If dressing has truly been a lifelong passion, how could you? The fact that you started this thread indicates to me that you really do not want to give it up.

I do not like the picture you painted about your therapy session. I have experience good and bad therapists and I'm not feeling good about the therapist letting you wife throw down ultimatums. Perhaps the therapist wanted to get it all out and will help you work through it later. Still... I'm going to suggest you see a therapist who specializes in gender dysphoria issues. The idea is to help you work out what dressing truly means to you. My wife is completely supportive (and a therapist as well) and I have found a wonderful therapist to help me work through all the issues that percolate through our CD/TG minds. It should help you through the couples therapy.

I'm not going to give your wife a pass on gossiping to her friend. I feel it is a real violation of trust. The combination of ultimatums and gossiping about you is a real red flag. I don't see a loving spouse there. I agree with other members that the secret you shared with her will not stop with her friend.

Hey Nikki very sorry to hear about your situation.

Perhaps you should give your wife an ultimatum. She must wear skirts or dresses at all times, pants are for men only. Hair must be kept long.

In all seriousness I'm in agreement with Doc about building up hostility. If you can truly purge and control your interest you'll be fine.

I also agree with Joyce, your wife broke your confidence. I would not tell my wife's embarrassing secrets to my friends and expect her not to tell mine.

Nikki -- you've made a choice. Good luck and I hope your path takes you to happiness. That's really all I can say.

As for her breaking your request for keeping it to herself, I don't understand why we can understand her need to talk with someone, without similarly insisting that she understand your need to dress. It would seem to be a lack of a willingness to agree to mutual compromise on her part, but of course I have not heard her side of things and so may be judging unfairly.

I am a firm believer that marriage is a compromise, and that it isn't 50/50 but 100/100 from each party, in all of this what is she compromising for your happiness?

Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place. If you quit your wife is happy, and you probably wont be in the end. If you carry on in secret, and she finds out, especially after saying you had stopped, the brown stuff will hit the fan. I sincerely hope things work out for you.
Diane.

I think you need to have some 1 on 1 discussions in your sessions. You are turning total control of your life to your wife. That is not healthy and will lead to bigger problems down the road. I doubt that you will be able to totally walk away from something that has been in your life for so long. These are my opinions only

Your wife is basically expecting you to spend the rest of your life being unhappy. Is that fair? Isn't it "normal" to want the person closest to us to be happy? I gave up dressing for "the sake of my marriage/wife" for seven years and we are still dealing with the fallout. I thought I had dealt with the pent up resentment but I haven't. We argue (about anything) and I go for the jugular. Why? Because I (still) resent her for driving me to the edge of suicidal depression. Four years down the line and change of heart from her in the last year or so (she still hates my dressing but she doesn't let it stand between us anymore) and I'm (only now) slowly starting to open my heart up to her again. A good marriage takes TWO people to be happy, it's no use your wife is happy but you are falling to pieces. SHE WILL END UP REAPING THE REWARDS FOR THAT! And it can be brutal, like mine has discovered. My advice: Get your gloves off and fight for yourself. Do it now or BOTH parties will end up paying the price.

Nikki,
Please don't feel bad about your wife telling someone else. I told my wife she could talk to who she liked about if it helped her and that part of her life was none of my business. If that helps to get you out of this situation then let her continue .

When it comes to counselling my wife wouldn't accompany me , I was the one with the problem so it was up to me to sort it out . Like you my wife has never seen me , we have tried to work with a DADT situation , but that has been a short term fix, living a compromised lifestytle is eventually no life. We go through all this because we CARE, we don't want to hurt them but like many once you've done the reveal there's no going back the damage is done .

You have to accept most of us are born like it and it's for life, we have an inner need , it's not a game or pastime we can pick up and put down. I appreciate we have to be realistic with our partners but they must also be realistic with us, they want us to live half our lives with the other part hidden , I now ask the question do we expect that of them ? How would they like it and could they do it ? Because they don't have that trait it doesn't exist so they don't understand it .

In the UK the government is pushing the issue of openness and acceptance of the TG community and yet we still have to live our private lives in the closet hidden away because of the person we married.

Ask yourself the question will I be a happily married man in this compromised lifestyle to try and appease my partner , who is being fair and unselfish ?

OK I now accept this couldn't go on so we are amicably separating , we both now realise we will be happier apart than struggling to live in a compromised marriage . We will both still support the children and grandchildren we still plan to go on some holidays together , so think hard is it a better solution ? Once the decision was made we both felt relieved that we could have that breathing space .

At some point totally coming out has to happen , otherwise seeing a counsellor is a waste of time, the more people that know the easier it gets , not harder .

I respect your choice, but I, too, am wondering about the counselor. I have a daughter who is a therapist and in her work she tries to help two struggling people find a middle ground, i.e. to set boundaries. Nobody should have to give up something so fundamental as the expression of their true identity. That is simply not right. As Racheal said, the solution is establishing some boundaries that may not be fully comfortable for either but is sufficiently comfortable that it will not be a major issue. One sided ultimatums serve only the one who set the ultimatum unless the other person fully agrees to the ultimatum. Sometimes it is for the best, but more often it will create other issues because the loss of freedom leaves a hole that has to be filled with something and that something is sometimes resentment. I wish you the best of luck, but I think you may need to take a different approach and question the counselor about the importance of compromise on both sides.

If you can purge EVERYTHING and put crossdressing behind you forever, AND lead a happy fulfilling life, then good for you --- you'll have done something most all of the rest of us could not do. On the other hand, if you think with a wife like that you can merely go back in the closet and she'll never find out, keep your divorve lawyer on retainer. Sorry to be pessimistic, but the true odds are against your plan working out.

Thank you all for the advice and words of encouragement and support. I truly understand the pros and cons of all this. I will add that I'm not putting it away and storing it forever and never to be seen or heard of again. I guess as one put it "back in the closet". I've had this part of me in the closet for years and I thought with the happiness and closeness my wife and I shared this was something else I could share with her. I was wrong. That being said I have to put it back in the closet again and leave it there. I do agree it's not fair to me, my feelings, and emotions. But in the greater scheme of things I do have to pick the lesser of two evils. I don't like the ultimatum and I do agree a marriage should be a give and take relationship not a dictatorship. But in the end we have children together and they are the most important part of my life. This is also my second marriage and we've been married almost 14 years in January. I've already seen what divorce has done to my oldest 3 and the effects and I'm not willing to put my younger ones through that nor can I myself emotionally handle another divorce. So I think I'm going to be the bigger and better person here and suck it up and drive on. It is hard I know but I'll live.
Nikki

My wife asked me to stop dressing 2 years over ago. My marriage was more important, but damn I'm struggling to hide my desires right now. It will pass again, but it's the waiting and trying to pretend I'm feeling okay that sucks

If you have enough willpower and can avoid temptation, go for it.

I feel that your wife is a controlling person and wants to have you on a string.

A puppet so to speak.

I admire your commitment to the kids and your marriage. I hope someday your wife can come to appreciate the kind of strength it takes to put something this central in your personality away. As Sherrie said, be aware of the tendency to become angry or resent her when this need isn't being met. You will have to work as a team through a variety of issues and I hope that she finds loving ways to help you find meaning in the relationship to replace some of what you will be missing.

As with the others who have noted the dead space in what you've reported from the counselor, I'm not confident that person is the best one to be handling this issue. One sacrifice your wife may be asked to make could be the selection of a new counselor who has a solid understanding of gender identity issues.

Best of luck to you and your family.

Nikki, when my wife and I were still communicating about my cross dressing one of the big issues she had was not being able to talk to a confident about it. I don't know if she spilled the beans to the person closest to her who is a cousin. Her cousin has never given me any indication she knows. It's difficult to maintain a secret, especially a significant one.

Anyway, I read your post of January 1, 2015 and it seemed to be rather positive. As stated many times on this forum a woman can and will change her mind. I am not one for ultimatums in a marriage. If you believe you can give up cross dressing, then give it a try. However, what happens if you start climbing the walls? What happens if you become irritable? Another thing I know will happen is a woman will not forget you wore women's clothing. That fact will never escape her. If you're lucky she will not espouse negativity about cross dressers when encountered in life or the media, etc. I think the life Judy has been living exemplifies the worst that can happen. Be prepared to have an alternative plan if the road is not smooth going forward.

I have gone through long periods of time where I have not been able to dress when I need to or want to. I accepted that because of the circumstances. My wife taking off from work due to cancer treatment really brought out the male protector in me, which I think is part of the dynamics of a person or at least me. I found participating on this forum rather than ignoring it helps keep me balanced. I may not be able to dress as often as I need, but, I can express myself.

I stopped dressing to appease my wife. For 7 years I was nothing more than her lapdog. Four years ago I said no more, even if you don't agree with me (because you believe you have the moral higher ground) I will no longer be walked over. I stood up to BULLYING. We argue like cats and dogs now, but you know what? For the first time in our marriage my wife ACTUALLY RESPECTS me. Yes, she respects the man whom she's seen in a dress, something she NEVER did with the "manly" (dressless) weazel. Jenny helped me grow a spine so decide for yourself whether the path of least resistance is really worth it.

Nikki,
I see the problem is more complicated because it's your second marriage and you are trying to keep this one together. Even so you still need Nikki time , being forced back into the closet and piling on the lies you've already been accused is going to get harder. As you are seeing a counsellor you both accept there are issues to be sorted and obviously a need for some understanding and acceptance , you are doing it because you love her and care about her feelings doesn't she feel enough for you to give you some space .


Jenny,
Good to see you dropping in again , how are you doing, maybe PM me to bring me up to date .

My wife was devastated when she learned. She may have talked to a person she trusted...I hope so. Our solution was put all the clothes in a suitcase (had to throw out a few things to fit) and "we will talk about it in a month". That was in 2013.

Frankly, I could not live with a person like the one you describe but love is love. I am 60-ish now but would still be out the door. I still make my fem side apparent once in a while. Kilts, kilt blouses, miniskirt under baggy pants, occasionally bra & forms but I'm subtle and clearly eccentric. Most people are too caught up in their own lives to give a flying quack about me.

Quit to save the marriage, if you must. Just don't lose this CD site address...you'll be back. If nothing else, it is best place to chat.

That said, is anybody thinking about coming to the US Virgin Islands soon? St Thomas or St. John? I need to meet some real people who are like me. I am finally ready. PM me if you wish.

:kiss: Robbin Sinclair at your service!

As one more or less in the same boat, you have my sympathy and my prayers. It's a tough row to hoe.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nikki2014

Thank you all for the advice and words of encouragement and support. I truly understand the pros and cons of all this. I will add that I'm not putting it away and storing it forever and never to be seen or heard of again. I guess as one put it "back in the closet". I've had this part of me in the closet for years and I thought with the happiness and closeness my wife and I shared this was something else I could share with her. I was wrong. That being said I have to put it back in the closet again and leave it there. I do agree it's not fair to me, my feelings, and emotions. But in the greater scheme of things I do have to pick the lesser of two evils. I don't like the ultimatum and I do agree a marriage should be a give and take relationship not a dictatorship. But in the end we have children together and they are the most important part of my life. This is also my second marriage and we've been married almost 14 years in January. I've already seen what divorce has done to my oldest 3 and the effects and I'm not willing to put my younger ones through that nor can I myself emotionally handle another divorce. So I think I'm going to be the bigger and better person here and suck it up and drive on. It is hard I know but I'll live.
Nikki

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All the best and good luck. This is all I can say.

I usually have something to say, some possible solution, a hopefully helpful suggestion, but I got nothing....I am so sorry and I hope you both have a soft landing however it turns out.

Crooked therapist alert! My wife did the same thing long ago. She insisted upon marriage counseling for our problems. She knew that I dressed but it was not near the top of the list of issues at the time. She chose the therapist. I smelled a rat right away, but when she chose a male therapist, I foolishly went along. By the second session, it was so obvious the I had been set up that even someone as dumb as I am could figure it out. I quit the therapy and told her the reason is that her (emphasis on female singular adjective) therapist is a crook. Then the bills came in, proving that he was indeed a crook. A clean exit was expensive.

Not to be discouraged, she tried again. This time, she chose the therapist's wife. It was a husband-wife therapy business. No way would I go along with such a brazen setup. Ever since then, I am the bad guy in my wife's eyes because I will not submit to marriage counseling. Never mind winning, I have no hope of breaking even in this marriage counseling racket.

Your therapist goes along with her ultimatum. You, my friend, have the symptoms of a crooked therapist. Get out of the quack therapy while you still have some of your wallet.

I understand staying together for the children. I did likewise. Just before our youngest left the nest, my wife developed an incurable autoimmune disease that will eventually kill her in her 80s. I know the disease well because my mother spent a lifetime as a nurse caring for patients of this and similar diseases. It is honest. I am not such a horrible person that I could leave a sick woman. So we remain together, her issuing demands from time to time and me ignoring most of them. I spend most of my time at work or in my garden several blocks away. I rent a heated storage unit where I have an impressive femme wardrobe. She thinks she ended my dressing with a successful ultimatum. (If she had a clue, she would be yelling a lot louder.). You risk winding up like me if you agree to her ultimatum.

Hi Nikki :hugs:, I think that there are two kinds of Therapist's,

The one that tells your wife what she wants to hear and,

The one that tells you what you want to hear. >Orchid...:daydreaming:...

I have to concur with Blue... That is about as honest an assessment as you can find. ;-)

Blue,
There is a third kind, when they are the same size they donate some lovely clothes to give a nudge out the door !