One thing I don't like about crossdressing.

One thing that annoys me about crossdressing is being called girl. That is crossdressers being called girls. I may be wearing a dress and heels and have altered my face to look more like a woman's but I am a man and a man can look like I do. Until men have equality I still consider a woman in trousers a crossdresser. Oh you might say but they are not men's trousers they are tailored for a woman's body. Well then why is a dress tailored to fit a man's body not men's clothing? I love wearing a girdle and todays girdles fit me better than those of the fifties. That is because todays female body seems to have less hip spring than back then. Thus girdles are made with less hip spring. Should this not be a man's garment then? I rarely comment on others photos because what I really want to say is well done mate,you look really beautiful. Commenting on the presentation rather than any attraction to the person. What I would like is to wear clothing that is appropriate to what I am doing. Trousers and protective clothing and dresses or skirts in my leisure time. I would like to get the same praise for doing this as women get.

Georgina,
I understand your thoughts , but obviously it's different for Cders with GD they want and need the female labels .

I see the clothes we all wear as a window on how we feel inside, if you're a happy guy then the male clothes tell it all, if you're TG then the female clothes tell the story , I don't worry too much about what undergarments I wear , no one sees them as long as they do the job they are intended for and give you the right shape and appearance for your outerwear .

I intend to go full time and that is proving harder than I thought, I will be walking my dog and doing my housework , tending the garden and doing the everyday shopping , dressing down is harder than dressing up, having to learn how little makeup to wear . As for the girl label well I'm sure I will get all sorts but I'm not going to lose any sleep over it . People are bound to slip up it won't always be deliberate .

I get annoyed by being called “girls” because it’s demeaning to a grown person to address them like a child. I know guys that will throw hands in an instant if you called them “boy”. I am not upset being misgendered as the gender I’m presenting as. If I’m going to dress up as a woman, and to my best to like like such, it would be pretty rediculous to expect people to know tha I want to be gendered the opposite of how I’m presenting.

I agree with Teresa here it’s hard to dress down and like her I’m going fulltime too.
Your right in one respect true CDs are emulating women and are men. Me I’m a trans women who is going to live as a women would from head to toe and it helps me when I’m called a girl or women. Am I fully one no I accept that but I want
to live as one.
So I can see the difference
Rachael

I for one don't have a problem. A group of women are often reffered to as girls as in "Have a good night girls". A woman's breasts have be now as "The girls"

Encouraging a woman of any age, the term "You go girl !" is used. I think it depends on the circumstance and situation.

We will have to agree to disagree, Georgina, at least in part. While agree that we should be free to dress ourselves and denote our gender however we see fit, the fact of the matter is that certain types of clothing are universally categorized as female. I absolutely do not get the whole "man in a dress" fascination. I confess that I also resent the in-your-face attitude of some MIAD's and the ill will it draws to the TG community in general. Yes, it does. As wrong as it may be, to lump us altogether, it is a common response as most of us suffer for the confusion the MIAD's introduce.

When I dress, I want to be referred to as she, her, or ma'am. "How may I help you, ladies?" is one of my favorite things to hear. Yes, that's just my preference, so we're going to have to figure out a way that "the normals" can know how we prefer to be addressed.

The key is whether it is a term of endearment or derogatory. My wife used the term 30/40 years ago. The girls are going shopping today. The girls are getting together this afternoon. Our daughters use it to describe their friends. The south side girls. It was the same back in the 50s and 60s. My sisters would ask if I wanted to be one of the girls. I always said yes.

The same with boy. Older guys often call younger guys, boy. Hey boy you better catch that calf ...

I'm not a fan of gurl or some of the other terms used to refer to CDs or TGs, but that is just my preference. I see women using girl on tv shows. Especially some of the housewive shows.

"If it walks like a duck....."

If you are presenting as one gender, why get upset if people refer to you by that genders terms (girl, lady, Ma'am, etc)? In today's hyper-PC atmosphere, we have individuals ready to sue if they are 'mis-gendered', can you blame people for erring on the side of caution? Not trying to be confrontational, but this sounds like another example of "I'm offended and I'm looking for a reason!".

I too am in the disagreement camp Georgina, I want to be called a girl or a woman when I take the time and effort to dress and present as one. I would be insulted if people called me a man even if they knew that genetically I am one.

I think you're completely off base, Georgina! Whether it's CD's or GG's; if your calling folks "girls" when they're in their 20's, that could be demeaning. But, nearly all the dressers I know r far past their 20's! So, calling them girls is actually meant to be endearing. And, most take it that way!:battingeyelashes:
If being referred to in a female context is so offensive and being a male is so important to u, why don't u call yourself George?:straightface:

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Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly

We will have to agree to disagree, Georgina, at least in part. While agree that we should be free to dress ourselves and denote our gender however we see fit, the fact of the matter is that certain types of clothing are universally categorized as female. I absolutely do not get the whole "man in a dress" fascination. I confess that I also resent the in-your-face attitude of some MIAD's and the ill will it draws to the TG community in general. Yes, it does. As wrong as it may be, to lump us altogether, it is a common response as most of us suffer for the confusion the MIAD's introduce.-------------------------

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Let the education lessons start here! Aunt Kelly, I have met 100's of dressers of all ilks of those, I can count on the fingers of one hand those that can pass nearly all the time. So, you're saying that all those other wonderful, extraordinary, friendly, and self confident trans give all trans a bad name because they don't pass?:eek:

Please tell me how many dressers you've actually met? Of those how many could consistently pass? Pics don't count. Almost anyone can can come up with one pic that makes therm look fem.:straightface:

Apparently not u, tho?
And, here u r throwing stones at MIAD's and u don't even post a an avatar pic? Please don't misunderstand, u r entitled to your opinion about MAID's. But, when u claim to speak for the Trans community? That kind of ticks me off!:thumbsdn:

Not buying into the whole MIAD argument Doc, but there is a huge difference between a MIAD and a person who dresses at their best but doesn't pass. Its about intent...

I respect Georgina's opinion, but I disagree. I would be honored to be called girl, lady, etc. That is what I am trying to emulate when I dress.

Having said that, the ideal world would not care whether a man wore a dress. If I could, I would. But the world equates feminine fashion with females, so that is the world I live within. Given those parameters, when I dress en femme, that is how I want to be addressed.

Society is just starting to get used to the concept of transgender. Let's work through that as a society, then focus more upon our preferred forms of dress being okay regardless of our biological sex.

Each to their own. I don't mind being called a girl since I am presenting and trying to act and be one. However, I do not like to be called Sweetie, Honey or Dearie by sales clerks and the like. Just personal taste.

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Originally Posted by Georgina

One thing that annoys me about crossdressing is being called girl.

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OK. If someone calls you a girl correct them and that's that.

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Originally Posted by Becky Blue

Not buying into the whole MIAD argument Doc, but there is a huge difference between a MIAD and a person who dresses at their best but doesn't pass. Its about intent...

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Becky, u r a dresser. As such u r more likely to judge the differences in trans that try hard to look fem, those that do the best they can, and those that don't care.:daydreaming:
However, to the vanilla public not familiar with trans, they r likely to see us all as men in dresses. Because at the end of the day, that's what many of us r!:straightface:

If you're going to be a crossdresser, you need to develop a thick skin.

Thick, but soft and smooth..... :battingeyelashes:

I can not remember ever being called 'girl' except at a few CD meetings or at the local 'Drag Queen' bar were I take photos of the DQs.
What with my age when I am out dressed, I am afforded the title as ma'am, or lady.
The title normally used with SR women in polite company.

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Originally Posted by Micki_Finn

I get annoyed by being called “girls” because it’s demeaning to a grown person to address them like a child. I know guys that will throw hands in an instant if you called them “boy”.

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And yet, 80 year old men and women will often refer to each other as 'the girls', or 'the boys'.
Way too many people these days just need to find ways to feel offended by something; if there's nothing, they will search until they find something they can complain about.

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Originally Posted by Georgina

One thing that annoys me about crossdressing is being called girl.

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Really? A bloke chucks on a dress and then gets offended because a stranger uses a female pronoun? Seriously?

Put yourself in the other persons position. They see someone dressed as a woman. There are two possibilities, either they think your are female or they think you are a bloke rather badly trying to look like a female. In both cases, and without any further information available to them, the ONLY option available is to use a female term as it is least likely to offend. So now you have a go at them for trying to be polite in, what is for them, a confusing situation. Pretty sure a polite person is not thinking you want them to refer to you as "Oi you, bloke in a dress".

I find it interesting in some Space type shows/future time, they have dropped of the Ma'am all together and use 'SIR' for all officers regardless of gender.
Just like now we just have actors, not actors and actresses.

G'day mate and well done.
Cheerio

I'm not going to argue too much.. everyone is entitled to their opinion, and chat forums are the place to express them.

I think that you'd be hard-pressed to find someone in our scene who doesn't like to be called "girl" by their friends.

Saying that women in trousers are "crossdressing" is always pretty ridiculous. That's clearly not the case. Womens clothing vastly comprises the amount of clothing made on Earth, so I'd bet my last dollar that more trousers are made for women than are made for men.

But all means, if it upsets you, go ahead and be as male as you want, insist that everyone call you "bro" and wear those dresses and girdles. Can't guarantee that you're going to get a bunch of praise for it, but who cares? You do you, dude. The wonderful thing is that nearly all clothing is legal provided your private parts aren't showing. So you're free to do as you please.

I see no problem of being called girl or mam or suchlike, in England in some places you can be called dearie or ducks or some such like they are figures of speech and accepted as such on the other hand don't we at times refer to our sons and daughters as children even when they have grown up at times calling them my kids or " where have the brats gone irrespective that they are not inf act brats at all but good children.
So when it comes to being called girl does it really matter and are we being a bit insensitive to some of these terms most of the time meant innocently without and intended disrespect.
I would love to be called girl one day, however I wait in hope for that day.

I wrote that I was annoyed at being referred to as girl, but I am not offended, there is a difference. In N.I. women call me dear and love etc. in male mode, and I am not offended in any way. Is one of the reasons that male crossdressing is not fully accepted, trying to look like a woman. A woman in trousers is still a woman. I am not confrontational, and I do believe in freedom of speech, but I think some of the justifications people come up with for looking like a girl/woman, are just as silly as others think mine are for not.

I don't think I've ever been called a girl. About 5 years ago I was introduced to the idea that other CDs prefer to be referred to as she/her and that has become my way of addressing others.

I probably don't dress in public as often as Georgina and others here which might be why nobody has ever called me girl. I think I would actually like it unless I'm in male mode of course.

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Originally Posted by Kelly DeWinter

I for one don't have a problem. A group of women are often reffered to as girls as in "Have a good night girls". A woman's breasts have be now as "The girls"

Encouraging a woman of any age, the term "You go girl !" is used. I think it depends on the circumstance and situation.

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Lots of women refer to men as boys in the same context, such as boys night out, the boys are going fishing tomorrow and so forth.

Really, I don’t see the public ever understanding your point of view without explaining it to each one separately.

I was out having dinner with a friend (GG) last night. She told me she doesn’t like to be called ma’am. She see it as someone calling her old, she is 56. The server referred to us as ladies.

I’m referred to as a girl all the time, and I like it. My close friends will use female pronouns even if I’m presenting as a guy. Very few people see me present both ways, so this is a small number, still I appreciate it.

Georgina,
Though I'm not offended by being referred to as "girl" I agree with your point. I'll take it a step further though.......why does it have to be called "crossdressing" in the first place?

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Originally Posted by DaisyLawrence

Really? A bloke chucks on a dress and then gets offended because a stranger uses a female pronoun? Seriously?

Put yourself in the other persons position. They see someone dressed as a woman. There are two possibilities, either they think your are female or they think you are a bloke rather badly trying to look like a female. In both cases, and without any further information available to them, the ONLY option available is to use a female term as it is least likely to offend. So now you have a go at them for trying to be polite in, what is for them, a confusing situation. Pretty sure a polite person is not thinking you want them to refer to you as "Oi you, bloke in a dress".

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Love your reply.

As someone who thinks of himself as male however dressed (when I am out in these clothes I am acting apart, not living it) I have no problem with being called by female gendered terms - as has been said above - you are basically inviting such terms by presenting as you do. Though I would like to take the use of female terms as a compliment to my acting, the people using them always know I am a man and one explained to me that in a room full of women she could hardly refer to me as 'he' the way I was dressed so she used 'she'. In other words it was easier for her - so why not? There is a difference between a man wearing a dress and a man dressed as a woman. I myself prefer not to be addressed as girl but it is the term not its gender that I dislike. I have no problem with endearments from women however I am dressed but on a site that caters mainly for heterosexual men I feel an element of discomfort when endearments are used here. Though women use these terms to each other there are no male equivalents unless you count bro (ghastly) or mate. I have been addressed as mate by a taxi driver in York when fully presenting as a woman but when I mentioned this to the receptionist in the hotel I was staying in she said that women get addressed as mate all the time in York and it often happened to her. When I opened this thread I expected it to be about the discomfort of a wig or the difficulty of removing eyeliner. Considering what happens to crossdressers in some countries being called girl hardly registers as a problem.

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Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly

I absolutely do not get the whole "man in a dress" fascination. I confess that I also resent the in-your-face attitude of some MIAD's and the ill will it draws to the TG community in general. Yes, it does.

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I have yet to experience an "in your face" attitude by any MIAD but I have personally experienced that attitude from others in the transgender community to the point that I left this site for over six months.

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Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly

most of us suffer for the confusion the MIAD's introduce.

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I wonder if the MIAD suffers for the confusion the rest of you introduce.

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Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly

we're going to have to figure out a way that "the normals" can know how we prefer to be addressed.

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I don't have an eggshell skin. So, it doesn't bother me if someone chooses to address me using the proper biological definition they learned in school. I will not force them to pretend I am a woman just to satisfy a subjective sense of what I am.

I like this perspective well put.

In a previous job with all female colleagues I became officially 'one of the girls', and being the way I am I was thrilled with that. Out and about I would also love to be addressed with a feminine name.

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Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly

I confess that I also resent the in-your-face attitude of some MIAD's and the ill will it draws to the TG community in general. Yes, it does.

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Originally Posted by Tracy Irving

I wonder if the MIAD suffers for the confusion the rest of you introduce.

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I don't think you can talk about us as a TG Community if you don't carve out space for the MIADs, the "just a CDs," and all the other folks who ARE part of that TG Community. Transgender acceptance will have failed completely if only the pretty are accepted. The public has to come to understand that yes, there are many different ways of expressing and yes, some look more or less ridiculous depending on your point of view -- but they all have the same right to exist; the same right to eat in a restaurant or go see the latest Start Wars movie as any other person on the planet.

And failure is a huge possibility if we continue to try to segment our already-tiny demographic. It's OK to not understand MIADs -- I don't. It's OK to not understand people who say their gender experience fluctuates day-to-day -- I don't understand that either. But I do this: I beleive them. And I accept them. And I understand my success hinges on their success. No matter how pretty you are, once they start picking off the easy-to-discriminate folks, they'll be coming for you.

Well said.

To be called a girl, honey, dear or whatever name when your dressed all depends on each individual.

I have no preference on what anyone calls me when dressed, I have my own feelings and know who I am.

What others think of me is none of my business.

Thank for that, Pat! I thot I came down kind of heavy on Aunt Kelly. But, u explained brilliantly why her post bugged me!:sad:
Like it or not, to the vanillas, we're probably all MIAD's! As such, we'll sink or swim together!:brolleyes:

I think for the most part people who may be well aware we are not GG, oops, biologically female.... that was not an oops, actually that girl is used in so many different contexts of all ages. One is never to old to have a girl friend or a boy friend.... anyway, IF someone genders us as we appear, even though they know that is not our biologic gender, I think they are attempting to be genuinely nice to us, showing acceptance or an attempt at respect. Most of us do enjoy being gendered female while presenting as such, and a lot of us don't mind it at any time.

True miads, or a gender queer presentation, would either gender work? it should, technically. I don't think anyone in that kind of presentation should feel any negative emotion over it, personally.

Pat said in an earlier post to simply correct someone. Who would have thought of such simplicity.... We actually should be thinking and acting with more of that simplicity. For ourselves and others it would benefit. Last sentence spoken in Yoda accent....

Having read through this thread, personally I'm not bothered either way. However, I do feel some replies veer towards dangerous ground. I refer to those who seem.to imply that those who make a big effort and pass more successfully are somehow more 'worrhy' than those who do not pass so successfully. Well, I don't pass, I'm far too manly of frame but I'm as tg as the next lady, girl, man, boy or miad. People like me do not muddy the waters for others, we do not confuse the 'normals' out there. We have as much right to express ourselves as everyone else. I sometimes think that I fall in the category that some things can not be polished, but that's just me. As I've said before, if we can't accept each other in all our shapes and forms, then why should we expect society as a whole to do so?

All the girls I saw at a GNO the other night were overweight, well dressed and all on their fiftys or more.

Overweight? Badly expressed, just a middle aged spread on all of them.

They were all GG's and havin' a good time.

A lovely group of girls I might add.

As long as someone greets me, call me what you like but just don't call me "late for dinner".

I will spare you my "women in pants are not crossdressers" rant. However, I have never seen "dresses tailored to fit a man's body" for sale in the men's sales department (other than a kilt).

Funny, most CDers want to be called a "girl" or woman. I guess society just can't win. People are being trained to call people the gender that they are presenting but obviously that is not what you want.

Your comment makes me think of my son when he was four years old and wearing a batman costume. He wanted people to call him batman until he tired of the batman comments, then he would say, I'm really a boy.

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Originally Posted by Georgina

One thing that annoys me about crossdressing is being called girl. That is crossdressers being called girls. I may be wearing a dress and heels and have altered my face to look more like a woman's but I am a man and a man can look like I do.

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As a MIAD (man in a dress), I can kind of relate, although I'm not offended at being referred to as a girl. I hate being called a sissy, though -- that's definitely not me. I love wearing a bra, dress, and panties, but I'm not trying to pass, and I don't want to become a woman. I'm a man and just like wearing feminine clothing, bras and dresses in particular.

Bob

:iagree:

Nailed it, right there.

I think Georgina is bringing up a fascinating point. (I haven't read all the comments, so forgive me if I'm rehashing.) There is a clear spectrum here -- on one side are those who like to dress but don't want to be thought of as women or mistaken for women (does that describe you, Georgina?) and on the other end are those who want to transition and don't feel like men at all. In the middle are some who like to feel like women part-time, but also like being men. And many other variations! I'm in the middle. When I'm dressed, it is my desire to blend in and be thought of and referred to as a woman.

Georgina,

Sorry to hear that it annoys you, but to each their own. I personally like the affirmation of being recognized in the feminine when CDING. It means I did a good job. But don't let that stop you from commenting on others photos, just be sensative to the fact that THEY may not like being called mate or dude. Use their name or dear or some other neutral epitaph if you must. But feel free to participate.

In fact, start by telling me how pretty my eyes are !!!! Ok, fishing for compliments is crass, but hey, I'm a crossdresser and flattery real works on me....

As far as women vs girls, that seems to bother a few people, but oh well, there are worse things. I've been corrected for referring to a group of women as "you guys" for me it was generic, but some do take offense, including older males who hear you do that. Again no offense meant, but I'll try to watch it in the future.

This is supposed to be fun, isn't it?

P.S. my bestest bud here calls me princess. I'm straight, but it still makes me swoon!

I don't get mad. It's happened more than once and at first, I would slightly smile then laugh because I was surprised, but now I just go with it. Why not, right?

The only thing I don't like about crossdressing is the fact that general public still consider us as people with some behavior disorder. I would love to wear female clothes every day without everyone around thinking I'm not a normal person.

To me it's all about intent, i.e., to demean or not to demean. I get called on the carpet by my wife for using the phrase, "Let's go guys!" meaning everyone. Cut the old man some slack. The usage of "girls" on the site use to irritate me to some degree because I know, as a cross dresser, I am not a woman. To place me in the same category as my wife, daughter and granddaughter just seems totally hollow and false. Recently, I have been finding myself referring to my seventeen year old granddaughter as a "young woman." She is not longer a girl.

Well, I suppose we could go back to "y'all" and "you'uns" (which is "y'all" plus three ...)

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Originally Posted by Meghan4now

...... start by telling me how pretty my eyes are !!!! Ok, fishing for compliments is crass, but hey, I'm a crossdresser and flattery real works on me....

.....
This is supposed to be fun, isn't it?

P.S. my bestest bud here calls me princess. I'm straight, but it still makes me swoon!

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Why, princess, what beautiful eyes you have .... :)