Why do I have this need?

So, I understand if this topic has been addressed a million times already, so apologies up front. However, I've been thinking recently why it's so important for me to 'pass' (not that I ever would), which led me on to a few other questions:

Is it because I have the need to be accepted by the world as the woman I believe I am? Or, is it just to align my outer appearance with my inner perception? In a perfect world, where we could dress freely and be accepted for who we are, would I still feel the need to 'pass'? Maybe more importantly, in the current world, do I have the courage to be the 'real' me, knowing that I will face rejection?

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks. Rian x

Perhaps there is some hope in a Virtual sense----and perhaps some INSIGHT. Go to "Second Life" a "virtual world" its not really a game as such, but you can design and create your own realistic AVATAR and socialize and interact with others there. It is free at its basic level. You can create your "real you" self and try it out, socially, with others who are also there.---SL has many places to visit and things to do. you can talk, dance, party, build, buy and sell. I recommend it

Rian I know what your saying, while I love doing makeup I wish it wasn’t important for me to just be me and not be bothered by folks, especially when dressed quite feminine. I think though it’s just a reality of those who are transgender

In the same boat, the only way I'll ever pass is only on light less nights when viewed from a 100 miles away, while blindfolded.

The point is, I beat myself up enough regarding how badly I can pass. I don't need any help from everyone else helping/reinforcing that personal attitude. Being able to pass helps reduce the personal negative mental point of view.
My shrink is helping me work on this, but it is still the biggest problem I have.

My take on the desire to pass is that there are several reasons many seek it as the holy grail.

One reason is certainly fear of public ridicule. That fingers will be pointed, we'll be singled out and mocked by the crowd. Coupled to this is a worry about personal safety. This is a good thing as it stops us doing things and going places that even in drab you wouldn't go.

Add to this the desire to simply look as good as we can. We spend time and money choosing outfits, forms, shapers and makeup, all that to make us look attractive so why is it surprising that we want the entire package to be at the same standard?

I don't pass but if I make a good enough effort with my makeup and dress to blend I can move through a crowd virtually unnoticed.

And, let's not forget that not all GG's are catwalk models. We to can get drawn into the notion that buy this that and the other and we to will look that good.

However, the one big reason we seek to pass is fear. Fear of rejection, humiliation, ridicule. It's the belief that the world is populated by only haters, a belief reinforced in our heads over and over again.

From what's written here so often, the only real way to overcome this is to actually experience being out and about. Support from counsellors might help you get over the doorstep. However only the getting out will finally slay the fear.

I think it is more for personal acceptance. Or it maybe payoff for all the work and money we put in to our appearance. And for people who are more TG it is adapting the outside to inside.
Sara

If you ever figure out why, let me know.

Its interesting to say "need to pass"....its less constructive than saying "need to present as a woman" or "need to present as myself"... expressing your "femme side" in cd'ing or your female self in trans people is the absolute key to living with gender dysphoria whether you pass or not.. and the idea of passing is about other people and not yourself

i cant lie...i wanted to pass what im saying is a healthier thought would be i want to express my true gender...looking my best is just part of it... and this may be interesting to some...once i transitioned and began to pass, i started dressing much more basically and rarely wear anything but jeans and sweats, very little makeup etc... i guess im just not "girly" at all but its more important to be myself .. and transitioning gave me the freedom to do that, and yes so did passing...it made it much more comfortable

so to me passing is a quality of life thing...and our need is about expressing gender, passing or not

many many cd's are in the closet and dress happily at home or privately
if you need to go out and meet people as you express your gender , thats a pretty good sign that you are doing more than "just cd'ing", and if you feel that need but dont go out, in my experience you will likely suffer it until you do go out

Thank you everyone for your input. So, I'm definitely TG and hope to transition at some time in the not-too-distant future, at which point the whole 'passing' thing really becomes a mute point because I'll have to accept the situation for whatever it is. However, I really do have this (unrealistic) desire/need to be 'seen' as a woman, but I'm trying to figure out if this need is internal (self-acceptance), or external (validation from society). I understand this is all conceptual, but it still leaves me asking the question "In a perfect world, would I still have this need to be seen as a woman and not a TG?" Note: no comments please regarding a TG is a real woman etc.... I use the comparison for simplicity, that's all.

Again, thanks for your input. Rian x

For those of us girls that have a very strong inner feeling of femininity, many want to do what females do in every day life, and that includes being out and about. Doing our best to blend helps in passing, I think, and I'm finally going to put it to the test tomorrow and Sunday. I will learn from any mistakes I make so that my upcoming DLV experience will be as fun and memorable as possible.

Rian,
Firstly we can never 100% pass , there are so many tell tales that give us away, I have been called convincing by GGs so that is the best I will get and I'm happy with that .

OK an AGP trait is wanting to be seen and accepted as a woman , I'm not saying it's your problem but it is something I've learned to live with . I believe the outer appearance is a window to show the World how we feel inside , I will be going full time or as close in a few weeks no matter if I pass or not , up to now there hasn't been a sense of rejection when I'm out socially. Some may have avoided me or backed away but that may be more of their problem than mine, some people don't know how to deal with the unexpected and that is what we are on occasions .

I haven't been able to pass since childhood. I still have fantasies about being able to pass, but unless you are dressing out in public passing is overrated. I know there are real ggs who have problems passing as a female too. Rain Dove is a 6'2" muscular female who has problems passing as a female. https://www.instagram.com/p/BZyvlbqF...=raindovemodel

She says that when she wears a dress she feels empowered because it makes her an activist for transgender rights. I would like to think that all of us who cannot pass as a female are activist too. By challenging social convention each of us can help transform society and promote greater freedoms and tolerance.

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Originally Posted by 2BArianwen

So, I understand if this topic has been addressed a million times already, so apologies up front. However, I've been thinking recently why it's so important for me to 'pass' (not that I ever would), which led me on to a few other questions:

Is it because I have the need to be accepted by the world as the woman I believe I am? Or, is it just to align my outer appearance with my inner perception? In a perfect world, where we could dress freely and be accepted for who we are, would I still feel the need to 'pass'? Maybe more importantly, in the current world, do I have the courage to be the 'real' me, knowing that I will face rejection?

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks. Rian x

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I think we have to look at Gen Males and Females to see the answer.

Some Males and Females will work out and take grooming very serious to look the best they can, while others could care less or have given up.

I think if no one cared about what people wore or how they looked including MIAD, there would still be many that wouldnt be happy with what they seen in the mirror, not unlike G Males and Females.

First, only you know your answer to your question, and finding that answer requires a lot of self reflection to eliminate all the baggage you have been saddled with by society, religion, family, etc.

One thing I am dead certain of is that it's better to be a woman than a man. Yes, dead certain. I have lived many lifetimes in this world, some as a man, some as a woman. One must experience both in order to learn and teach all the lessons of life, and I know that despite how heavily patriarchal our world is, women have it better. The biggest issue is motherhood. Nothing a man can do, not even the great empire builders, compares with the experience of bringing a child into this world, feeding her from your own breast and being there as she grows. Another is how freely a woman can openly feel her feelings and form close bonds with other women. Men just can't

I believe transgenderism in men has something, but not everything, to do with the deep, spiritual knowledge that something is missing that you need to reconnect with. It won't help us become moms, of course, but the women who meet us in the world also know intuitively that we are more like one of them than your average man. No, they might not want to be married to us, but they can certainly relate to bonding with a sister over a new dress or pair of shoes.

I'm not going to try to tell you that all this has anything to do with your situation. This is my truth, but maybe it provides a slightly different viewpoint from the neurological biochemistry model that medical science provides today.

Here is my obviously unscientific thought on this. At conception we all start as females and then the genes take over and some of us develop as male and some as females. Maybe we did not get the complete message and still have the female mindset and thus desire to pass as we really feel.
I know I strive to look as passable as I can, realistically I know I don't but this feels right for me and thus I go out and present as Nikki. I also feel that if I was to wake up and miraculously be 100% female, I would have no problem in adapting. Does this mean I would go through surgeries and hormones etc to accomplish this goal. At my age I don't feel the need nor do I think I would become a convincing female. If I was young and was growing up in today's society, the answer might be different.

First off, 2B, those r your "needs" not mine. We r not all the same and don't all dress for the same reasons either.
Altho, it took me over 12 years to figure out my CD needs, I did! :)

I don't need or want to be a full time woman anymore. Like I did when I first began dressing at age 50.

I simply want to appear to be an attractive woman. Just enuff to fool me!:tongueout

And, I discovered I LOVE hanging out with other dressers!:hugs:
So, I do.

I wish I could tell u I want to do bla, bla, bla as a crossdresser. But, the fact is, I'm happy as a clam just being able to continue my life as Sherry as it is rite now!:D

I'm an old dame. I go out whenever I can, and so far I have never had a truly negative experience. There have been a couple of itchy moments, but my sense of humor carried me through--and I think made friends for us. When all is said and done, I have no idea how well I pass, but nobody has ever treated me with anything less than respect; and that's just fine, because I know who I am. I have both feet on the ground as myself, and there is great power in that, believe me. Be strong.

:) Lallie

hello,
many of us have our CDing needs and try to understand why... we have to push our boundaries in the hope that we all find that we can just accept ourselves.
luv J

Speaking as a man who enjoys women's clothing as opposed to a transwoman I'd speculate a cross dresser knows he is a man in woman's clothing. Looking into a mirror or even looking at the pictures posted on this site, we know there is a man in those clothes. Each of us probably have embedded in our brain what visual image of a woman should be. The brain is really keen on facial recognition. So, when I look into a mirror I know that face is my face and not some pseudo woman looking at me. The quest is to believe nobody else will recognize the man in a dress that I see in the mirror. I have to remember that not every woman is a societal drop dead gorgeous woman. Not every woman for her physical features draws my attention in public although their clothes do. I suppose I view the image looking back at me too critically. I do know when I look at photos of me as a man my eye sees what my brain wants it to see. The photo shows all imperfections my brain does not want to see. I may be able to pass as an unattractive older woman if I was not six foot tall. I speculate I would have a higher probability of passing if I was five foot six and plus size. That would add roundness to my face and hide the Adam's Apple and eliminate any need to perfect an hour glass figure.

Being rejected is a natural feeling. Everyone wants to be accepted in a group. There is plenty of stories on this site showing the negative consequences of being a cross dresser.

Like most other replies, I say, get out.

Get out be out and about and after a while you will feel comfortable and not notice others.

You will concentrate on what you are doing and possibly be annoyed by the occasional bra strap falling down.

THAT WILL BE YOUR ONLY WORRY...... :-) :-)

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Originally Posted by Helen_Highwater

One reason is certainly fear of public ridicule. That fingers will be pointed, we'll be singled out and mocked by the crowd. Coupled to this is a worry about personal safety. This is a good thing as it stops us doing things and going places that even in drab you wouldn't go.
. . . . (snip). . .
However only the getting out will finally slay the fear.

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Helen has her finger on the best realistic answer. Self Preservation in society is critical, so the best we can do is be as close as possible to female to avoid being singled out from the herd and chewed up. Crossdressers attempt to meet this goal and many do it very well, moving about in public with ease.

However, if ALMOST portraying a woman fails to satisfy your needs, you may have a different goal. At that point it is the expectation we have that is internally generated and that may be an even higher standard to reach. Regardless of where it comes from, that sets a goal that is much higher than outsiders can set. For someone who is transgender, that goal is to actually move across the gender divide. I suggest for some of us passing isn't just being seen as female, but it's the internal validation we receive that we have become female, even if we understand it's a temporary state of being. It's that moment when the self image and external presentation finally match and it feels as if the person is finally complete.

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Originally Posted by 2BArianwen

Is it because I have the need to be accepted by the world as the woman I believe I am? Or, is it just to align my outer appearance with my inner perception? In a perfect world, where we could dress freely and be accepted for who we are, would I still feel the need to 'pass'? Maybe more importantly, in the current world, do I have the courage to be the 'real' me, knowing that I will face rejection?

Thoughts anyone?

Thanks. Rian x

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Hi Rian,

For me, the standout question of your OP is his "the woman I believe I am". Is this a question as part of the bigger question, or your statement. If this is the true statement, then it's time to join the TS forum and explore your gender ID, right? Your question implies, most likely, that if the world were accepting, the need to pass "might" go away, but the other side of the coin is that your need to pass covers a desire to be the woman you believe you are.

We're all so different, especially in the TS side of things, where already being 1% of 1% there are so few of us, but some thoughts:

1. there are times when I need/want to present as much as possible as to, while not pass, show my effort is such that I'm accepted as presenting as a woman and not caricaturing a woman. There are many more times when that does not matter one bit, where I'm being me without a mask, no pretense - and maybe because it is safe where I live, I can do this. Before I was on HRT my dysphoria was all the greater and therefore my need to present well was to compensate, but now I'm on them (and "mr angry" is gone) the need is relaxed.

2. clothing choices might be a considerable difference between the CD and the TS: the contrast between "sexual thrill and dressing as a tart" (as extreme example) compared with "creating my style, my wardrobe, dressing to express by female identity as a normal woman".

3. there are regional/local variations in female expression. Where I live, almost no women wear makeup, but last weekend I visited my cousin in Kent, and every woman was made up. In those contexts one seeks to match the local or do what is most comfortable in the context. This has a factor on passing levels.

4. The woman within might be the man's inner feminine, she might be the true self, or she might be "the goddess". a good psychotherapist might help explore this.

xxx Pam

Once again, thanks to all you have contributed to the discussion. I appreciate your comments, views and advice, even the challenges! It's comforting to know that I am one of many (relatively speaking). Hugs. Rian x

Rian, there could be many reasons why you feel such a strong need to pass and it is probably not one simple answer either. i would guess that a large part is aligning how you look with how you feel... perhaps being identified as a woman helps you truely accept what you are?

I’ve been soul searching for along time and still not sure why I have this need. My theories:
- I was born this way. Even in childhood, part of me always was intrigued by women’s clothing. I never wanted to be a girl and I never felt like I had the wrong body, but I always liked the idea of wearing a nice dress and heels. I felt comfortable playing with both the boys and girls as a kid, but around 5th or 6th grade when a girl started to like me, my friends made fun of both of us, so I learned to distance myself from girlie things.
- In my younger adult days, there was a bit of a sexual turn on associated with women’s clothing, particularly pantyhose and stockings. I’ll alway find them sexy even if most modern women hate pantyhose!
- Until recently, I worked in a male dominated career (military) and spent my life around gung-ho macho men. I excelled in this environment even though I never adopted the macho man attitude.
- I’m happily married, happy to be a man, and thrilled to be a husband and father... but deep down inside I’ve always had a hidden female persona buried within myself.
- I’m in my 40s now, and I spent most of my life trying to hide this and recently came to the realization that I no longer want to hide this. I’d like to develop and explore this side of me that I tried to ignore but realize that I just can’t and I truthfully don’t want to hide her.
- I’d love to get a full makeover from head to toe and see what I look like. I’m tall and skinny so I’ll never be able to blend in wearing 4 inch heels, but I think I could possibly pass in the right clothing, makeup, and environment. And just like any other woman, I want and need to feel pretty. I want curves, I want makeup, I want earrings, and I want a sexy outfit to tie it all together. In my mind, this is the difference between a simple fetish or kink versus having some degree of transgender identity. Genetic gender is mostly binary, except for some intersex individuals. However, gender expression and sexual expression fall along a wide spectrum. I see myself as a 100% heterosexual, 100% genetic male who would like to spend 95% of his time as a normal guy doing normal guy, husband, and father stuff. However, I’d like to be 100% girl 5% of the time. I don’t want to be 50% girl 5% of the time... so dressing to look good and pass is an important goal for me.

Like the very need or want to dress at all, there may be a variety of reasons, and they may change over time. For me, there are two big ones: accomplishment, and acceptance, followed by safety.

Everyone wants to be liked & loved for who and what they really are. There's great disappointment having to hold back information about ourselves when we know that the ones we love wouldn't love us if they really knew something. Been through this. Lost friends and relatives. I can't live completely alone, and don't want to jettison every friend and relative I have just for the cause.

I've been thinking about this today and I'm beginning to wonder if this is less about the need to be seen as a woman, and more of a need NOT to be seen as some kind of freak..., pervert..., child molester... just because I want to express who I am.