Cost/benefit calculation for cross-dressing

This is a thread to support Confused, as we can't pm her, in understanding how we balance the benefit we personally derive from crossdressing against the cost of relationship conflicts that arise from showing ourselves to others, in our effort to gain acceptance!

For me, it is a life or death matter- to show myself as I am and have relationships based on that, rather than on pretending.

The benefit to me is deep peace and reconciliation with myself, and the cost is that a large number of people, including my wife, look at me and think I am weird. There is nothing to do but be positive and bid for acceptance.


How do you balance your costs and benefits?

For me, crossdressing in secret was something I did while I was figuring out who I was. During that time I never thought I would go out. In fact, I started small with underwear and each time I looked at people who went further I'd think "those folks really take it too far." But then I'd eventually get to where they were and I'd find it made me happier, so I figured I stop there and the folks who went further than that were really taking it too far. And it went on like that in dribs and drabs (no pun) until one day I did the whole thing -- full outfit, full makeup, good-ish wig and I looked in a mirror and received the shock of my life -- there was the person I had always been looking for when I looked in a mirror but never (up to that moment) had seen. That revealed a fundamental truth to me and changed my cost/benefit calculation.

Once I knew that truth about myself, then NOT showing that person felt like lying. And the weight of constant lying was dragging me down. At that point, I had to start going out and loudly proclaiming (albeit in non-verbal terms) my truth. Later events moved me to transition, but it was the same impetus -- I needed to show the real me to the world. I could not go to my grave with the lie.

So, initially and for many years, I crossdressed with no intention to ever go out. My impetus was simply to be happy. And until I discovered the new truth about myself I didn't really have a lot of conflict about that. When things changed, I changed too. ;)

Phili,
I feel my wife is paying the cost now for what she has lost if she could have come to terms with my dressing needs . Almost everyday now I take another step out as my recent threads show , my conflict had gone it was called DADT . Some days there will be inner conflict we only have to read the TS section for that to become apparent , I don't believe those little inner voices ever totally go away . Without doubt I'm getting more of the benefits of the stuation .

I'm still wondering after reading your beard thread question that without conflict and the lack of acceptance from your wife the beard would be gone and so would MIAD . I can't help feeling the beard remains as a consolation to your wife to show her man is still there .

The only cost is shopping and the benefit can't be measured.

I really don't know what all this has cost me, but the benefit has been friends in a different circle to the norm.

hello,
If we are talking about financial costs: compared with other pleasures crossdressing is not that expensive. Think about it: compare the price of a pair of panties with a glass of beer. Then remember that you can only drink that glass of beer once.
The emotional cost - well that depends on your situation. For me dressing up brings pleasure, contentment and lack of stress. But I did have to go through a lot of confusion in the past.
luv J

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Originally Posted by Pat

For me, crossdressing in secret was something I did while I was figuring out who I was. During that time I never thought I would go out. In fact, I started small with underwear and each time I looked at people who went further I'd think "those folks really take it too far." But then I'd eventually get to where they were and I'd find it made me happier, so I figured I stop there and the folks who went further than that were really taking it too far. And it went on like that in dribs and drabs (no pun) until one day I did the whole thing -- full outfit, full makeup, good-ish wig and I looked in a mirror and received the shock of my life -- there was the person I had always been looking for when I looked in a mirror but never (up to that moment) had seen. That revealed a fundamental truth to me and changed my cost/benefit calculation.

Once I knew that truth about myself, then NOT showing that person felt like lying. And the weight of constant lying was dragging me down. At that point, I had to start going out and loudly proclaiming (albeit in non-verbal terms) my truth. Later events moved me to transition, but it was the same impetus -- I needed to show the real me to the world. I could not go to my grave with the lie.

So, initially and for many years, I crossdressed with no intention to ever go out. My impetus was simply to be happy. And until I discovered the new truth about myself I didn't really have a lot of conflict about that. When things changed, I changed too. ;)

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Pat, u so beautifully and perfectly described my dressing! Only in my case I want to see a woman in my mirror. Any woman that is not me will do! As long as she is pretty, fem, doesn't remind of me of me at all, I'm quite happy!:daydreaming:

Dressing has not cost me more than money.

However there have been times I have started looking at needed mens clothing on JC Penny website, spent $300 total and only bought 1 mens item

Pat says, "My impetus was simply to be happy." That about sums it up for me, I am just looking to be happy. I am fortunate in that the only sacrifice the I am making is not going out in public dressed as I choose. In other threads I have voiced how I would dress if I went out in public. My wife and I have discussed this issue of going out, and this is my only boundary. This boundary is only for visible outer clothing. My wife and I see this as a win-win situation.

For starters, Phili, thank you for the support, it's really appreciated. Reading these answers, I am left wondering how come the emotional cost to those around you doesn't come to play so much. Before you bring out the pitchforks, please hear me out because I am asking with the utmost respect and the clear realisation that I would never have the metaphorical testicles to do half of the things most of you have done. Every woman I have ever met in my life has had to sacrifice a big part of herself in order to minimise the cost of her "truth" to those around her. Be it her role as a mother, her career, her relationships etc. We always weigh the cost/benefit of every move we make. If we didn't do that, I can promise you society would be a lot more broken than it is. I sympathise with your position as having the real you "closeted" since your partners are having trouble with what you call accepting. To us, this is every day life. Of course, my opinion is totally biased as I am one of those women. If you are lucky, then she will decide that the cost of accepting it is lower than not accepting it. If she considers the price too high, then she will leave. I think it's your responsibility to make the benefits more valuable than the emotional price she will have to pay. I am sorry if I offended anyone, I promise that was not my intent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by phili

This is a thread to support Confused, as we can't pm her, in understanding how we balance the benefit we personally derive from crossdressing against the cost of relationship conflicts that arise from showing ourselves to others, in our effort to gain acceptance!

For me, it is a life or death matter- to show myself as I am and have relationships based on that, rather than on pretending.

The benefit to me is deep peace and reconciliation with myself, and the cost is that a large number of people, including my wife, look at me and think I am weird. There is nothing to do but be positive and bid for acceptance.


How do you balance your costs and benefits?

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The financial costs are a pittance. The emotional costs is where it gets expensive. I know my wife would much rather I not be a crossdresser, and I’d go insane if I had to be completely in the closet. But I try not to get lost in the pink fog so much that I cross boundaries. My wife, bless her soul, will usually give me feedback, and I adjust my behavior accordingly.

I don't see this as situation that can be readily analyzed in terms or benefits and costs. (this presumes a choice) One might as easily compare the benefits and costs of being alive.

I exist. I'm 6'2" tall, grey haired with blue eyes, of variable weight, right handed, and somewhat hard of hearing. None of these attributes are choices. Similarly, I didn't choose to be transgender....to cross dress. Its just one of the things I am.

I recognized very early in life that being this one thing was a problem....was forbidden....a perversion. So, I made the choice to suppress this part of myself. Choosing suppression and denial did have costs, costs that were borne by myself and those closest to me. (self loathing, depression, episodic anger and impulsiveness) I made that choice and bore those costs for the majority of my 65 years. Benefits of that choice were two kids, two wives in 35 years of marriage (in sequence, not at the same time) and the semblance of a 'normal' life. My most recent ex-wife managed pretty well in accepting my behavior so long as it could be rationalized as a sexual kink. But acknowledging it as a fundamental part of who I am was too high a cost for her, and she asked me to leave. I have no idea what I might have done to make it possible for her to accept me as I am. I suspect it was not a matter of insufficient "benefits", but rather that her "self image" felt diminished by being associated with the person that I am. I couldn't compensate for that.

Blue lace sequin gown $60, Silver 5" heel sandals $40, Long brunette wig $49, Feeling while wearing it all
to a fancy gala dinner...........Priceless :D

Well, plenty of men who also happen to be cd’s sacrifice much in other areas of their lives, working in jobs they hate, staying in relationships they don’t want to stay in, living in places they don’t like, giving up hobbies that are too expensive, not executing on impulses or desires all for the greater good of family or other reasons.

For people with gender dysphoria, equating those things above to expressing one’s gender identity is a false equivalency. It’s likely close to impossible for someone without GD to really understand that. And of course not all or maybe not many CD’s have GD.

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Originally Posted by Nikki_P

Well, plenty of men who also happen to be cd’s sacrifice much in other areas of their lives, working in jobs they hate, staying in relationships they don’t want to stay in, living in places they don’t like, giving up hobbies that are too expensive, not executing on impulses or desires all for the greater good of family or other reasons.

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Absolutely, I didn't mean to make my post sound like this is a competition about who suffers the most. I was referring to our emotional needs and inner self that might be supressed equally as much in our desire to keep the price that needs to be paid for our benefit. Dysphoria is certainly a situation where I would think the SO has no choice about whether to accept it or not. The same way that the person going through it doesn't have a choice. And in theory, at least in my head and with my limited understanding, only a person of bi sexuality could work in accepting it. Naive of me to think so maybe!

the benefit for me is selfish and the cost is enormous.

I rarely buy men's clothing and have a public storage full of women clothing shoes,makeup,wigs etc.

there is a exotic dancer next to me in my storage who has made her storage a dressing room.

My wife said that she had the benefit of always knowing that she could count on me having some
extra pantie hose around when she ran out.
It was fun supplying her with little extras.
Rader

Confused, I think maybe the root of your question is not confusion as much as just wondering if there aren't rules about how much one is supposed to sacrifice for the public good, or the family good, or the neighborhood good.

The tension between personal sacrifice and group good is never-ending, and each person makes it all the time- whether it is cheating on taxes or your spouse, or sending your kids to public or private school, etc. As a female you likely were trained to expect the sacrifices you made, and it was ok to resent them to some degree, but since most females were making them as well, it didn't feel too out of line,and perhaps virtuous, or simply necessary.

The crossdressing urge is very powerful and often starts very early in life. It is like addiction, in terms of intense happy feelings. It reaches deep into us and feels transformative. It is long wished for freedom from very pernicious aspects of masculinity, many of which are manifest in the 'toxic masculinity' we can read about today.

My wife is steeped in the man/woman, Tarzan/Jane, breadwinner/homemaker paradigm, which is taught all of us from early in life. She says she is liberal with regard to other men, but she does not want to accept my genderfluid nature. I think she is afraid of the rain of shame she feels she will be subject to as a woman who accepts a man who 'isn't all man'. The cost to me is huge- she is fearful and frozen and unhappy when she sees me crossdressing.

The benefit to me is that by crossdressing I can connect to the deep emotional being I once was, before being trained to be a man. I'm old enough to see the end of my life, and I don't want to die without knowing myself. I see pretty willing acceptance of me in the rest of the world. I do not feel shame any more- as I understand who I am and find comfort in not being alone. My wife is afraid, so I compromise- I do my best to limit her exposure to it. So an additional cost to me is that compromise.

For her the cost of disliking me is huge, but the benefit is staying clear of the social shame she expects. I'm hoping that she will find there is no social shame, and we can both enjoy knowing each other more truly and loving more fully.

Phili,
There's the rub , the social shame !

I was having this conversation only yesterday with my sister in law, she was qusetioning if I'd been back to my old home town dressed , ( I'm afraid I lied and replied no but I did venture down to see a film about Monet's life last Saturday night ) she was saying if I was seen what about the embarrassment to the family ? The chances are no one would recognise me ( sorry Phili but that's also a benefit of not being a MIAD ) besides what real difference would it really make ? We aren't the only ones . When I spoke to the girl in the Art Centre reception desk she told me several CDers regularly attend the functions held there , some come with their famillies . The ones that really can't accept suffer the most because they refuse to open their minds to the reality of the situation . As my counsellor told me assumptions trapped inside the mind are so destructive , at some point the cycle has to stop .

Personally for me my crossdressing has only ever been financial. I'm not sure that's a good thing or not as I have not been in a relationship for over 30 years and my marriage did not come to an end because of my dressing. Perhaps in a way I would have liked to have had a little of the emotional problems associated with dressing - at least there would have been some highs and lows along the way. Don't get me wrong I love my dressing and would never want to give it up, but sometimes just doing it for yourself is a little bland - and then I just buy another cute bra and all is well again.

Teresa, I think your sister-in-law hit the nail on the head with her comment about embarrassing the family - that, to a large extent, is why I don't go further than I do as I don't want to upset my family. If I lived somewhere where no one knew me and my family I think that I would probably dress full time and hang the consequence.

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Originally Posted by confused_cathreen

I think it's your responsibility to make the benefits more valuable than the emotional price she will have to pay.

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I agree with the above quote. I think it is our responsibility to be an ambassador to those who have no understanding of us. However, it is not an automatic that our SOs will "have to pay" any "emotional price." In many ways what I think our responsibility is, is to help assist with a mindset shift.

Take my wife and I, now together for almost 32 years. She told me once that if I were ever to chose to transition she would leave me for sure. Now that it is obvious that is what is happening it is what has actually saved our relationship. I asked her a few months back - is the cost that has to be paid worth the benefit (of me going on estrogen.) Her response, what cost, because all I (she) have had are benefits.

Everyone needs to understand that without even bringing transgender issues into it, in the US we have about a 50% divorce rate. From my research through data analysis of messages on these very boards the TG separation rate is about the same. Relationships are hard. Very hard. Mine has been the hardest thing I have ever done, but it is also the best thing I have ever done.

From my perspective the worst thing your partner did was to deceive you, not to be a CD. That price did not need to be paid. However he most likely did it because he was terrified of loosing you.

My best to you, good luck.

Sasha,
It's a hurdle that has to be crossed if transition is the next step .

I really want to get to the bottom of this question of embarrassment , the word is used to cover a multitude of ill conceived negative thoughts and ideas , because of the male stereotype .

Phili,
I can relate to Pat's evolution from just being a CDer through her eventual discovery and HAPPINESS. For me I guess the cost has been that I lived most of my life not being as happy as I am today, as I too have evolved and have come to terms with my gender identity. But yesterday and yesteryear are gone - water over the spillway of life. The benefit is the happiness I have found.

Without getting into a contest to trying to gauge whether men or women have to bear more than others in our society just look at the divorce rate for first time and second marriages. It's more than the desire to wear women's clothing causing these breakups.

I cannot even deal with whether or not society would ever openly welcome men who wear women's clothing as equals in every day life. Not in my lifetime. What has been the cost benefit of wearing women's clothing? As far as the financial aspect..nil, nadda, zero. Plenty of money for my wife and I to delve into anything we want to do.

Getting past the initial "The Talk" issues for me it has been the suppression of what I perceive to be an integral part of my inner self. My wife has benefited from the outward displays of my inner self which does lead me to believe there is some DNA involved with my desires. I never had a mother, aunt, sister or cousins who dressed me up. I was a rough and tumble little boy who got in a lot of mischief. I did all those things that are expected of men as far a military service. I thought it was my duty to work hard and raise a family and treat my wife with the utmost respect. I've observed men and women who have treated their spouses as trash. I suspect I would be the same person as I am whether or not I wore women's clothing.

The real loss for me is not being able to express myself to the one person I've loved for over 46 years. She is not accepting. I understand and respect her reasons, whether she has explained them or not. I accepted her with all her issues which predated ever knowing her. She knows that. She knows she has short comings. When we had "The Talk" she did say she regretted ever telling me of her sordid past because it would have made it easy to just walk out. She said walking out with me knowing about her past would have made her two-faced. I accept her, she rejects me. Still, she cannot come to terms with her man wearing women's clothing because of HER issues. She has benefited from my inner true self, while I have suffered in the sense I have to be secretive to really protect her. I would never throw my cross dressing in her face and tell her to deal with it. That's not in my nature.

Over the years I have supported her in every way possible. I have supported my kids, a boy and a girl. And, now our granddaughter. I suspect my brain is more female than male. I wonder what the answer would be from my wife if she is asked the same question.

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Originally Posted by Sashauk

Teresa, I think your sister-in-law hit the nail on the head with her comment about embarrassing the family - that, to a large extent, is why I don't go further than I do as I don't want to upset my family. If I lived somewhere where no one knew me and my family I think that I would probably dress full time and hang the consequence.

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I've been following these threads, and there has been a lot of good discussion and insights. Thanks for getting the ball rolling Cathreen.
Embarrassing the family... That is the potential price that I struggle to avoid. In a perfect world, we would not be an embarrassment. However, many in society appear to be less than accepting or tolerant. My wife doesn't understand why I dress. That's not surprising since I don't understand it. She tolerates it (what a great gal) but her biggest fear is that someone that we know will find out, and she is known as the wife of the town tranny.
If my behavior only affected me, I think I would dress as I want, whenever I wanted. If some someone has a problem with how I dress and wants to hurl insults my way, have at it. However, I think it would be selfish and unfair to those I love (wife, children or grandchildren) for them to have to deal with those insults because of my choices.
It's not fair, but one of the things I often told my children as they were growing up, was that life is not fair all the time. When it is not, deal with it and move on.

Part of my job is doing cost-benefit analyses. To compare equals to equals, it's required to monetize the intangibles.

As an example, what if crossdressing is the proverbial straw that breaks the camels back. The result might be divorce, possibly leading to the loss of half of everything you own, and some large portion of your future earnings. That could be considerable, depending on your financial circumstances.

It's pretty clear to me that two people can't live separately as cheaply as they can together. So, one should include a serious degradation in quality of life. When my brother got separated, prior to his divorce, she kept the house and he moved into a turn of the century house in a "low rent" neighborhood. Because this apartment had no insulation at all, he couldn't afford to keep the inside temperature above 60F in the winter.

Then, there's what I'll call "alienation of affection". My wife hasn't been interested in sexual relations in at least the past 6 years. She moved out or the marital bed 6 years ago on what may have been a pretext (the noise from my CPAP machine). However, she won't move back in because she says that she is no longer physically attracted to me. Most times, we are little more than roommates. Why do I put up with this arrangement? See the paragraph above about divorce. Also, because she "allows" me some girl time out of the house.

Cathreen is asking about how can sufficient benefits pass to our SOs for whom the cost of us crossdressing is embarrassment or worse.

Embarrassment people can be from mild, as in "well, it is a bit unusual to be seen with a crossdresser, and I wonder if anyone thinks a little less of me" - to a full blown fearful panic.

There apparently are tribes in Africa which basically kill unpopular people by stopping all talking with them. It was presented to me as basically being isolated totally renders a person hopeless, and the many ways we rely on others being impossible, the person goes crazy, wanders off, and dies.

It might be anecdotal, but here is an academic anthropological article on ostracism. http://www.freenation.org/a/f22h2.html

Social shaming is a form of ostracism, and embarrassment is the feeling of being caught, or connected with someone who is about to be punished. So my wife is embarrassed to imagine being caught as a woman with a crossdressing husband. She is also terrified of the ostracism that would result- her current friends no longer feeling like they really want to confide in her or hear her confidences, for example. She is afraid that her social network of support will vanish and she will be left clinging to a husband who is not only the cause of it, but someone who she does not feel loyal to in the sense of defending me, or even finding out if she might want to defend me.

In this scenario, there is no benefit worth the cost, of course. I keep myself going by imagining that if I become such a great person emotionally for her as a result of crossdressing, her fear will subside enough to notice that for the most part society is not going to ostracize her, or punish her, and that the cost is negligible relative to the benefits. Her girlfriends will be jealous that I am such a great husband emotionally, so there might be a slight positive! I don't think she sees benefits from helping break down toxic social norms, etc.