This is a take off on my "transbian" thread. There seems to be some disagreement on this point.
Altho the dictionary says lesbians r females, some members here describe themselves as lesbians when dressed. These members r attracted to women, not men apparently. I am, too. But, would never refer to myself as a lesbian because I'm not female.:battingeyelashes:
How about u?
If u r dressed and attracted to women, do u feel calling yourself a lesbian is accurate?:straightface:
No I do not, I always think that the term Lesbian should solely be atributed to women who love women and sometimes form partnerships no way can a man who dresses up like woman be called a lesbian because of being the wrong original sex.
This is what I said in your other thread. It's still how I understand it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Patience
I am only attracted to females whether in dress or drab. I wouldn't describe myself as a lesbian when dressed because underneath all the make up and hair I am still a male, and would only have a hetero sexual relationship with a woman. By that I mean I have no desire to have sex with a woman while dressed en femme.
No, just plain no.
The best you can do on this one is Eddie Izard's "I'm a male lesbian", but that's stupid and IMHO degrading to the Lesbian community.
I love woman. Always have and always will. Not interested in men. I do not think of myself as a lesbian, but would love to be "with" a female while dressed
My personal feeling is that if you identify as Crossdresser, then the lesbian label would not apply. If you identify as trans, as the trans community will tell you, trans women are women, therefore lesbian would be appropriate.
In my DADT marriage my wife told me if she wanted to have a relationship with a woman, she would have married a woman. I guess with or without a dress I'm still a heterosexual man (in a dress).
I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body.
Me too, I've always described myself that way.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky_Scot
Nope. It fails on too many parts of the definition and it also fails to show respect for the special relationship lesbians have with other women.
For me its a blurry line. But if they feel like a woman, look like a woman, and the other woman is attracted to them as a woman, sure sounds like a lesbian. If only there were some other word like transbian to describe this scenario :)
Bingo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky_Scot
That's how I feel.
I think a lot of the replies are missing a major point here. For it to be a lesbian relationship it needs to be between 2 women. What clothes you are wearing has nothing to do with it. If you self identify as a man then it is not a lesbian relationship, if you identify as a woman then it is. From what most in this forum have said, they identify as a man therefor it would not be a lesbian relationship no matter what was being worn.
If you want to call yourself a lesbian, that's your choice since you can call yourself whatever you want, but you need to remember that the rest of the world may not see it the same way and some may rightly take offense to you doing so.
No, a man in a dress is not a woman.
I describe myself as Lesbian, but only as a fun "in" joke with my S.O.
No not a Lesbian; I will always be a Bio-Boy, no change for me, I am way to old for that.
How ever I still like girls, and want to be with girls, but I am also wearing panties and a bra.
So i guess that makes me a boy in disguise.
rader
Well put, Paula. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not to their own facts. The plain fact is that lesbians are women, not men who dress like women.
I cross-dress and I am only attracted to women (I have no idea how they can find the male form attractive. But I am oh so glad many do!) that being said I would not consider myself a lesbian unless I had lesbian equipment below the waist and I have no plan or desire to make the switch, so no!
No not a Lesbian.
But if a trans woman wants to identify as a Lesbian, There is really nothing I can do about it other than say they are misusing language to suit their needs. Sucks for the Lesbian community i guess, Many Lesbians Iv'e read want a real woman. This of course is viewed as bigotry on the left when in reality it's just personal preference.
This topic is pretty spicy, i wonder where the admins are to censor it =P
I've often (jokingly) thought of myself as a "lesbian trapped in a man's body", but I don't really think of myself as a lesbian, because I'm not female - I just often wish I was.
I don't think of trans women as being women either, and unless they can do something to morph chromosomes, they never will be. So a man who has had the hormones and surgery would still not be a lesbian if he/she was attracted to women.
Just my opinion. I have nothing against trans people.
I've been called a lesbian but if asked I just say I like girls.
I have no idea how anyone can find the male form attractive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sarasometimes
But since that pesky testosterone has afflicted me with a male form, I am oh so glad that there are women that do!
I think it depends on whether or not the person has transitioned or not and to what extent. I think if you’ve had SRS and now have a vagina, you can definitely say you’re a lesbian. A mere CDer? Definitely not lol.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki_Finn
The lesbian community would probably differ with you on that; part of that is due to the obvious visual, tactile, olfactory, etc., differences in GG and MTF TS genitalia (despite medical science being able to construct a vulva/vagina out of tissue which is externally visually similar, the internals are still quite different). The number of GG lesbians who are sexually attracted to a MTF TS are probably even fewer than the number of GG's who are interested in crossdressers. The lesbians I have known are pretty much in agreement with this, but of course, that's only a small sample size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kas
AFAIK, there are no studies on this, but it would be easy enough to go to any lesbian dating site, and ask. Just be polite.
I tend to agree with you notwithstanding a few others who don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki_Finn
I have joked that I am a lesbian trapped in a man's body. However, my negative interactions with lesbians tells me, no.
I guess we could be described as a lesbian with benefits, but no lesbian would agree with that.
For me lesbian tendencies would be in the fore.
Traditional lesbian relationship views of men does not even bear thinking about
This! It may be a fantasy for some and that's fine, but I don't think any of the women I've known who are lesbians would think that, except in the case of someone who is trans.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki_Finn
The quick answer is, NO
The fuller answer is, if you think you're a lesbian, then ask an actual lesbian, as they're the best placed to know what being a lesbian really is, and see what answer you get.
A few years ago I have discussed this with my GG friend Dark AnGGel. I am a heterosexual man in a dress. If I were a real woman, I would be a lesbian. was our conclusion. Simple as that.It is not sex that caused me to CD, it is the feel od the cloths etc. Also dressing out does not arouse me in any way. Dressing out etc. does give me warm fuzzes. I just love the feel and excitement I get when I can dress, even if I am not going out in front of ANYONE.
The simple solution is just to state your attraction rather than use a label. For example, I would simply say that I am 'female attracted'. This does not change with clothing or just how much my gender dysphoria is pulling me one way or the other at any one time. I can be presenting androgenous (normal for my NB identity), fully female, or even stood there stark naked with my male body and in all these cases I am still 'female attracted'. Simple.
So well put!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaymees22
But to answer the question, it's a No from me, as I'm a friend with benefits too!
Stacy!
After some thought, I have concluded that only a woman can be a lesbian. But I do think that men who have transitioned would be counted in that number. But for the rest of us who range from infrequent panty wearers all the way up to those of us who may live and present as women full tim, as long as we have our parts, we are still heterosexual males who are attracted to women. I confess that it would be a fantasy of mine to be fully dressed, then undressed and then have wild sex with a GG but as femme as I might be in the entire fantasy experience, I would still be a mant having sex with a woman. Not really a lesbian.
This is a very thought provoking thread. I too have referred to myself as Lesbian because I present as female most of the time and only like women. It's a slippery slope because once you start questioning the labels it's starts getting very complicated. For example is a genetic female that considers themselves non binary, they them referring, that likes women a lesbian? Many would say YES. They most likely would disagree because they do not consider themselves women. To strip it all down to the root would be to say if you have a certain chromosome count then you are either male or female. Sex and Gender are separate things and the current definition of male and female does not seem to hold anymore with about 75 variations in gender and sex. I feel female inside most of the time even though I have male parts. I only like women. What label am I? I have no idea. I think it's dangerous to start questioning who is "woman" and who is not. There are just too many variations on the theme. We all need to step outside the box.
Roberta,
Eddie Izzard is making a statement to how he feels inside whether the term is right or wrong to others , I personally have to agree with him, part of me feels the same way . If a person makes a statement how they feel is it right for others to say it's stupid , I've been right with other gut feeling. When I expained my feelings along with my Cding history to my gender counsellor she did understand why I feel this way .
You simply cannot satisfy some people!
Roxanne
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No. Only if she is dressed in miedeivel armor!
Roxanne
Wikipedia has a good section on transsexuality, and uses the terms gynophilic and androphilic to describe attraction- and these can be found in males and females, trans and cis, straight and gay. It is a simpler solution than claiming membership in the lesbian clan.
But, phili, do u think many people would understand those terms? At least most people think they know what a "lesbian" is!:heehee:
That depends. People make stupid statements all the time. Saying that it's "how they feel" doesn't necessarily make it not stupid, especially their position is in contravention of plain facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teresa
This whole thread, two of them actually, is based on the glib or comic misappropriation of the term "lesbian". Trying to support an argument through such linguistic gymnastics is just plain, well... stupid. No one who can speak with any authority on the term, including every dictionary I can find, would seriously apply the term to a heterosexual man, his attire at the moment notwithstanding.
Aunt Kelly,
In your opinion for what it's worth !! Don't bother in making a reply I'm no longer interested in your opinion thanks !
folks in the wild just see a man in a dress. most people dont understand TG/non binary in general, but this made sense to me and thats who i care about these days.
sorry to boost this from another thread but its what this thread was attributed to.
i have a friend who affirms im lesbian, but i dont identify as "MAN"Quote:
Originally Posted by GretchenM
I do not even want to understand! I just want to love him, no matter what kind of girl I am!
Roxanne, A Sweet Girl
All I know is that I have a significant feminine side to my character, I like to dress up as a woman, I'm exclusively sexually attracted to women, and I'd like to try lesbian, non-penetrative sex with a willing woman, preferably my wife!!! (but she won't play so I guess it's fantasy land for me as I have no desire to cheat).
Whatever that makes me, is what I am...
Paula, you make some good points, However This does not take into account hetro cis women who married a man that later transitioned. By your reckoning they would now be considered a lesbian simply because they decided to stay in the marriage. I know several who would have a few choice words for anyone who dared to call them lesbian.
Paige,
It is not so much that the person labeled likes the label or not. It is whether the label is correct.
If the genetic female continued to have sexual relations with man that transitioned to a woman, then she is not a heterosexual woman at all any more in any way shape or form. Doesn't matter if she was married to her SO BEFORE the surgery or not. So, if she still has sexual relations with her spouse and doesn't like the label lesbian pansexual is a better label for her :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Paige Dehart
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As for the original question, my opinion is this. If you're a crossdresser and you're only attracted to women then you're just that, a dude who likes to crossdress. But if you identify as a woman and still are only attracted to women then you can IDENTFIY yourself as a lesbian to an extent. But a genetic female lesbian would likely have issue with a couple things if you were to ever try to have a date.
I do identify as a lesbian, and my cisgender lesbian friends agree. But I think of myself as a woman who hasn’t yet fully transitioned. If I thought of myself as solidly male, I would not use the lesbian term for myself. I started applying it to myself only after I accepted that a large part of my mind is female, and that I prefer socializing as a female.
See and in my opinion there's nothing wrong with that. You were born male, but your mind,your heart,your soul, and everything inside you tells you that you're female so you chose to live as and identify as a female. That doesn't make you a homosexual male just because you feel you're female. So really there isn't a correct "label" to put on it other than "identifying as a lesbian female"Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceera