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Honesty’s the best policy the say but telling you wife (now soon to be exwife) just doesn’t seen to be the best policy to me. Needing help and being put on a appointment by priority list where yungers tg’s are seen as more important. Having to deal with this on your own no wonder so many of us choose to check out! ...
how do you all deal with this turmoil? Any suggestions are welcomed
Sorry to hear about your wife! It probably would have happened anyway since she probably would have caught you in your"lie" (with holding the truth!) ! Suggestion: set a goal for when all this can take place and just live your life in between as they say one day at a time! Not easy but it slowly gets you through! If you can get a therapist or some one you can talk about it with, it really helps! Best wishes on your journey! (I don't know if that helped but I hope so!) Hugs Lana Mae
Ley Lana Mae the therapist is the «*priority list I am on*» I know I need to talk to someone and fast but doesn’t seem like anyone understands... I saw a psychologist in February after a 4 month wait just to be transfered to a new center with this list! Thanks for your reply
Lisa,
Do what you're doing and keep on talking here on the forum. Also find help or social groups to join .
I separated just over one year ago and I'm happier now than I have been in a long time . I did get to keep the dog which is great , I made friends within days with some lovely people , they all know about me being TG despite what I said in a thread I do walk my dog in the afternoons as Teresa .
As I said in the M/F section you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink , I lived with DADT , so it really doesn't matter if you tell the truth or a bunch of lies , they just aren't listening .
I'm assuming Canada is like the UK , the gender clinics are overflowing , I'm not sure if age is the criteria , it appears to be more like pot luck .
Hi Teressa, I guess things are probably busy here also but focus really seems to be set on the younger ones.. in my opinion they can get any resource they need but being older I guess they figure you can handle it! I dug down really deep to come to my realization and when she asked I told her the truth ... now she doesn’t know how we could ever come back from where I have put us... and refuses to see a couple therapist because I insisted it be someone familiar with GD.
I’ve been,exactly where you are, Lisa, and not so long ago. Telling your truth was good and right. But your (soon to be) ex is entitled to her own truth as well. Mine simply could not stay with me when it became apparent that I wanted to live more openly as a transgender person. She was angry with herself, depressed and finally just had to move on.
now, more than 3 years later, that still hurts. But I’ve come to realize that, although I loved her and she loved me, that...even sixteen years later, people can grow apart unexpectedly.
I tried denial, I’ve ridden a roller coaster of emotions for years...in the end...time does ease the pain and life goes on. A therapist can help you challenge mistakening beliefs and self destructive thinking, but the real work goes on inside your head. It’s not fun, it’s not easy, but it’s a necessary part of healing, analogous to pain during physical therapy.
I can see where it would seem like honesty was not a good idea. You believe that it led to the end of your marriage. Am I close? If your marriage had a chance of surviving, with you being who you are, it would have been more likely if you had been honest from the start. The deception only adds insult to injury.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisalove1976
The best thing you can do now is to be kind to yourself, and honest to yourself. You are who you are. There is no shame in that. It is not some kind of "failing", no matter how many people will try to get you to believe that. Yes, that's asking a lot right now, but that's where the honesty comes in. You don't need to "get better" because there is nothing wrong with you. Yes, you might suppress it for a time, but at some cost. So take a breath and accept who you are. Counseling will help with that, and with finding ways to cope with a gender identity that isn't "standard issue". You can be who you are and happy. You will be neither if you give up.
The reason that this particular honesty has not paid off is due to a full relationship's worth of lies and hiding. Honesty is the best policy. When I met my wife I said I wanted to wear panties (as that was as far as i had realised at the time). When I wanted to start wearing women's clothes, I told her that day - no problem. When I discovered my need to transition, I told her, that same day. She's been with me all the way, and will be. I recently told her I will need to go further in transitioning; again, fully accepted. Why? Apart from her amazing beingness, it is because there was no lie, ever.
Starting a relationship knowing about one's proclivities, and hoping that love and time together will mean she does not want to split once the truth comes out; well, that is the foolish plan. Just. don't lie.
Hi Kelly,Quote:
Originally Posted by Aunt Kelly
the problem with honesty and dysphoria in my mind is that when we started talking back 20 years ago (wife and I )I was a cross dresser or at least that's how I felt back then... since then my reality has changed and she never understood that GD is fluid so when she would ask me a question like "would you ever have the operation" the answer 20 years ago was NO... over the years that honest answer now became a lie and the fact that she doesn't understand or want to know really anything about it doesn't help matters... Did honesty kill my marriage, no living with this issue and hiding behind walls I had to out up so that no own would see the true me has caused issues that will be the end of it.
hugs
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Hey Pamela... as I replied to Kelly honest answer today can become a lie tomorrow... and the fact that my wife never really wanted to know (DADT) or find out about GD most likely didn't help.... I reached down really low to find answers to her questions and now she says there is no way back from it....Quote:
Originally Posted by pamela7
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Hi Kimdl,
I really look up to your girls that have moved to your new life... I just can't get over the fact that this move will most likely mean taking what I have built up over the last 40+ years and scraping it. IO am trying to see a therapist and have been put on a waiting list which I have NO IDEA where I sit on the list and waiting is killing me. We really love each other but also realize we are both on different paths but that doesn't make it any easier :(
Lisa,
I have to come to your defence over this .
The honesty issue is a two way situation , how many wives are honest with us before the wedding day , I feel cheated at times by my wife when I look back . Also many of us believe that our CDing is a passing phase , we may no longer do it if we marry . The point you make is also a valid one , you CDing/TG needs have moved on as indeed mine have .
The honesty issue can suggest we are doing something wrong or bad , we should feel guilty and ashamed , it's getting to the point now where it's flaunting human rights issues .
sorry
First off... I lied... I was wrong... I totally hid my dressing....and it was a terrible thing to do to my wife...
when I got married I loved my wife...I wanted to be married...I suppressed my feelings and I hoped they would go away...
when it didnt it was too late... and I hid for almost 20 years...ugh..
so I did not practice what I preach, and I deeply regret it... I can use the excuses laid out above, but I think that's crap...they are just excuses for not doing the right thing...
maybe there are cases where the person literally doesnt know anything and it evolves after being married.... but that is not what we are talking about here.
my behavior HURT HER..... BADLY.... over the years we have come to terms with it...she has grown and learned and accepted what happened and after our divorce we've raised our kids and become best friends talking daily...
++++++++++++++++++
its true that our needs can change...we can identify one way or another over days and years...its difficult... but here's the thing...that's the truth...thats what you tell her..
you have to say....there are NO PROMISES...I have GD....its BAD.... I cant function and it overwhelms my life, my feelings, and my productivity.... I have to deal with as best I can and I honestly don't know what's going to happen.... nothing is off the table.... that's it... that's the truth.... and she DESERVES this truth.....
its not that its bad.... even tho so many of us feel guilt and shame, we also have to understand we are not bad ...but it is IMPORTANT...it crosses the big red line of things that are necessary to discuss and not...
its not like cheating...some people say life is better if she doesnt know... but cheating is just a thing...a moment... a choice...an act...
GD is meaning of life stuff... it impacts everything about your future and if you have it bad you will likely find that nothing can stop it other than expressing your gender, whatever that gender is...
that's what wives need to and deserve to know...
everything else is excuses, and bad ones at that...
Kaitlyn,
This is one of the best advices I ever read. Can't think of a more eloquent way to say it.
Katya
Kaitlyn as usual is right on the money with her response. Attempting to blame your former spouse for any part of seperating due to gender issues is completely BS.....They deserve to be happy also and asking them to stay in a relationship when you have transitioned is equivalent to asking a straight person to be gay for you. Like Kaitlyn my former wife and i are still best friends and co-parent our child very effectively and with love.
Lisa the telling the truth may hurt now but in time it will get better. That day may not be tomorrow, next month or next year but eventually it will get better.
It's not a lie if you don't know something about yourself. Yes, it can feel like that to others. If I had known 23 years ago that I was TS, I might not be married today. I might not have been a lot of things, but I might have been a lot more. I spend very little time bemoaning what might, or might not, have been.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lisalove1976
When it comes to relationships, all we can do is be honest and loving, from start to finish. Megan is right, again. In these scenarios the only thing that deserves blame is deception.
trust me I don't blame anybody other than myself for our separation... Yes she could have learned more about GD or even asked me and Yes she could have been more supportive but she never signed up for this and neither did I... she mentioned yesterday that she has no choice in destroying what we have built up in the last 20 years and she looses it all, I mentioned she was right but I loose all that plus possibly every friendship, family, career ect going back up to 40+ years.... I hate this uncertainty....
I get it..
I know its rough to hear...
she says "im losing everything..."
your response is "im losing more..."
that is not taking the blame...its really not about blame...
its about the responsibility....this is 100 percent about YOU...and thats just the way it is...
and so to me the way out of the vicious circle is to change that dynamic between you both...
take the responibility for the action.. 100 percent of it..she bears no responsibility to your GD
You have to explore this path...you may lose alot ....and that cannot change...that's not a negotiation.. and the outcome is not known... its a rough thing
you are doing what you need to do
she cant control what you are doing and needs the space to do what she needs to do... and for her to do that, she needs to know everything she can..
and she deserves to have her feelings fully respected with no caveats or attempts to make her feel bad or keeping things from her...
I know im brutal...im truly sorry for it... but it seems to me you keep going back to what she could have done, what she might have done, and how your feelings are hurt too...
For your and her good I hope you can get over that
I lived this, and learned as i went along, and it was harsh.
The world is unkind to those of us that repressed our GD and tried to man up and share a family life
So I will not sugar coat it... its also very unkind to our SO's who are even more scared, more upset and more confused than we are
We all have to fight through that.
+++++++++++++++++
There is no guarantee, she will do what she does but the positive side is you can set the table for the future
...your honesty and strength right now could give her reason to feel like she can still be a part of your life even if today that seems impossible... it may help her cope with reality and give her space to come to terms with her feelings...it may help her remember why she went with you from the first place
or you can keep secrets, feel sorry for yourself and set the table for bitterness and conflict for both of you
Kaitlyn,
Brutally honest you say!!! but appreciated :) thank you.
I realize that she isn't responsible for my GD and that this issue was given to me as a life challenge (yes a bit spiritual) and that the hurt, fear, unknown ect all comes with it. I still need to open up to her about one last issue and it might be the stray that breaks the camel's back but at this point the dysphoria is what it is and the path it has set out for me needs to be addressed.
I really appreciate all the comments on this subject and the feed back has been amazing... thank you all :)
Lisa,
You may have reached the point of no return , all you end up doing is throwing more fuel on the fire !
You need space and time , I've just past my first year , the dust is just beginning to settle . At some point you just have to accept irrepairable damage was done , maybe faults on both sides in that process, I also realise there is no going back, nothing will put things right , the only way is looking to the future .
Also partners don't disclose everything , I now beleive my marriage had run it's course , my TG issues made the situation easier to decide not harder for both of us , I'm afraid it's just life, people move on and sometimes away from each other not closer .
I truly hope you get a good outcome
I'm rooting for both of you
Well saw my psychotherapist yesterday as I couldn't wait any longer to see the Psychiatrist...
We discussed a lot of things and mentioned she would be willing to see BOTH of us and see if there is any salvaging our marriage but after further discussion she said she needed to see me for another session first to "set out a plan" as right now I am my worst own enemy (which I already knew) then she will see both of us (if Wife agrees).
I know she wants/needs me to stop flip flopping and finally give in to the fact that my GD has won and that no amount of fighting it will ever make it go away... back to the title of the thread I guess "loss" (I LOSE)
Lisa,
Maybe she'll try and get you away from this thought of losing , and concentrate on you and your happiness , you are the one she's treating not your wife , she will obviously do her best to bring her on board . I do know what it's like to be alone with counselling/therapy, I felt like I was hitting a brick wall , I had no one to talk to at home because I was the one with the problem and it was up to me to fix it . ( My Wife's words ).
Yes.
Black and white thinking is not productive. Again i speak from experience
I suffer from this.
You can actively notice this thinking and then without getting down on yourself and just do your best
It’s not all loss It’s just not. Wrenching change? Scary? Some loss? Ok. I buy that.
But don’t many people face these kinds of moments in all facets of life?
If you Take care of yourself and you are in a better place to be there for your wife.
Btw. One subtle thing I have seen with therapists more than once
It can be a problem if your wife feels ganged up on. That happened to me and it made her angry.
What seems to you as a helpful explanation can come off as coercion. So just be careful with that.
Kaitlyn,
How true , I know that was part on my wife's problem she knew she also had skeletons in the cupboard but as far as she was concerned they were staying there . Therapy to her and her family was a weakness .
Pamela, your comment “The reason that this particular honesty has not paid off is due to a full relationship's worth of lies and hiding.” seems really harsh to me. Speaking for myself, it took me almost 50 years to accept that I needed to transition. For many years, in my teens, I convinced myself that I could live a normal life as a normal man. So when I met my wife it was not a “lie” that I didn’t immediately tell her about the fact that I was transgender. At that point in my life that was a secret I’d shared with no one and fully intended to take to the grave with me. In time I did tell her but not until years later when I realized that even though I’d found the woman of my dreams it did not make the transgender aspect of my life go away or even get any easier. Those feelings persisted and grew stronger as time passed. Fortunately, to this day my wife and I are still happily married even though I am on the road to fully transition and have lived as Sara for more than a year and a half. Sadly Lisa’s wife may not be able to deal with having a transgender spouse. That does not mean that you can blame Lisa for this and accuse her of a relationship full of lies and hiding”. I strongly disagree with that sentiment and in fact find the statement kind of offensive.
Sara is right. For many of us, our own acceptance, realization, whatever you want to call it, takes time. You can't call that dishonesty. You can't share what you do not know.
On the other hand, not telling spouses or partners in serious relationships what you do know is dishonest. You can't hide something like that and have a healthy relationship. Been there, done that, so I know. 23+ years ago, I told the woman who would soon become my wife that I was a crossdresser. I am convinced that we would not still be married if I had hidden that. If you had asked me two years ago about my gender identity, I would not have used the word "transsexual". Today, I do. When we had that talk, she was not surprised. Indeed, she seemed to know before I did, but that's another thread. :) My point is that being open about something like this is important, vitally important. We both know that we will have may challenges to work through, but if it can be done, we will work through them together.
Thank you Teresa, Sara and Kelly... if fact Sara's point was brought to life last Thursday when I went to see my therapist and she asked me point blank so how do you describe your present state... I said without hesitation "I am trans-gendered you know that" and she pointed out that that was the 1st time I actually used the words... I often refereed to having Dysphoria but never ever said I was trans-gendered till last Thursday....saying it is a new reality, like Kelly I was always a crossdresser and it was always enough till one day it just wasn't.
I really appreciate all your comments
Saying the words is powerful medicine, all by itself. I can promise you that, with that clarity, things will get easier. I can also promise that other things are going to be difficult. The difference is that the dysphoria has a face now. When you can see the whole of it for what it is, dealing with it becomes a good bit more straightforward - No more "Am I, really? Should I?"
Worked that way for me, at least. :)
I certainly find that there is a difference since I've faced the truth but now I find that the path in front of me is now greyed out and no longer clear which scared the crap out of me the type of person who needs to know when and where....
Lisa to be honest it’s not easy, I’ve now been divorced for a year and a half and I still have days where I just wished I had
never spoke a word of my gender differences with her and just figure a way to express myself in another way. Unfortunately
the cat got out of the bag as it were early on and it was just to hard to suppress myself. I loved my wife and I was not a great husband mostly because she never could fully accept this side of me. So I’ve had my tough lonely days, tears and
wonderings as to why me, why did this have to be me. It will take time but it will pass and you will find a way to move
forward
Blessings to you Rachael
Hey Lisa,
Gender identity never goes away. It can't. It is the way you are hardwired. Unfortunately a spouse's nonacceptance can't/ won't either much of the time.
My G.I. was a malignant tumor for twenty years in my marriage and resulted in the death of the relationship.
The loss? Only my home, much income, 1/2 savings, friends, all family, reputation, etc. I think about my loved ones every day, including her. I grieve terribly.
BUT, I have gained something that few people ever experience, authenticity. I am now free to be myself instead of pretending to be what I thought others expected me to be. I have often paused to think, could I go back? The thought of it makes me ill. So, actually, the was no choice for me.
I do wish I could have known years ago what I know now, but that would have a whole new set of consequences too. I wouldn't be where I am now, with the incredible friends that I am blessed with now.
The uncertain future? Yeah, that. You can't predict how others will behave in situations that haven't occurred yet, including yourself. However, there is a good chance that your future is brighter than you can possibly imagine because it can/ will be experienced by the real you.
There are unique opportunities ahead for you. Can they replace the things you lose? Hardly, at least this is what I have experienced. It takes time, many days, just take 'em one at a time.
Let me know if I can help.
It is incredibly hard for most of us to be open with a gender issue. When you grow up hiding, suppressing, denying, purging, etc., everything in you resists even the faintest whiff of truth. So I get that - and STILL fight it, in fact. Hard. I tend to immediately deflect any conversation about gender. Then I (usually) come back to it after my initial inner shock wave wears off. That took some training with a therapist, though.
But you can never defend deceiving a spouse. They have both the need and right to know what’s going on, else you are depriving them of some of their own life. It’s tough, but own it.
Wow such great insight...
Rachael I really appreciate your honesty and hear alot of me in what you said especially the "why me part"
Jeri Ann.. the realization that you can't beat yourself at your own game is a real hard one to swallow and I have been working hard to come to that truth... I'm a bad looser lol loosing everything is terrifying but also such a reality, the hardest part is knowing that If I stay in my mundane life the only one that gets hurt is myself, If I try to be in my happy place I possibly hurt many as you said I can't predict how others will react.
LeaP I hear you and working on tearing down the walls I have put up to protect myself if the biggest issue but you are right she does deserve the truth and to be happy no matter the cost
Lisa,
So much good advice has been posted, which I am sure not only will help you but it helps others, including me. Don't be too hard on yourself. Take one day at time and do not rush into decision making (I like to let some key decisions steep for a day or two or even longer). Believe in yourself that you can address the challenges ahead.
I so relate to Sarah's and Kelly's explanations of the journey from the early years to today.
Lisa I have to say your openness and willingness to share is going to serve you well
Just in a couple of weeks I have seen growth In your perspective and there has been a lot of really interesting sharing
Kudos to you. This is really tough stuff.
Keep working at it and I hope that your wife can find her own way to come to terms with this
Being open and willing to listen is a great quality and will help her.
I just wanted to give you that affirmation because I know you are going thru a lot
In dealing with the issues we deal with, we must be brutally honest with ourselves.
This Brutal Honesty with ourselves must carry over to those around us. Sure, we can be diplomatic in how we word things. But we remain Brutally Honest.
This is an early truth I learned from here around the time I had my epiphany moment.
The other truth I learned from here was that if we embark on this journey to Transition, we MUST be willing to loose everything.
Sure, we can still hope for the best in all that we do. We should also expect the worst.
I know this really doesn't offer much comfort because this journey we take is not one for the faint of heart.
It does hurt. But, that pain brings something that is so wonderful and beautiful that words fail me.
Everyone here is here for you if you can't get to a Professional right away. Feel free to lean on us, that's what we're here for. To lend support for each other.
If you can find a group where you are, then by all means GO. Just keep in mind, there are more resources available to you than you realize.
You just need to keep your eyes open for them and look.
One day at a time is the only way I can take it right now as the future is greyed out but with the help of you girl I am sure I will be able to get through it... I honestly am NOT usually the type of person that askes for help (didn't do it here) but some times really need it...
With the support of this group and all it's fantastic members I'm sure the light will return soon... what side of the tunel I come out on is a totally other story to be followed.
Thank you ALL
Love you
Lisa xoxo
Lisa,
At your stage it’s going to be hard to think of “loss” in the way I’m about to describe as your in the infancy of your journey and mine is over and complete... so i view it in a much different way....
Anyways when I look back at my transition and life so far the losses I experienced were actually blessings that pointed me in the right direction to an amazing life....
Yes i lost my spouse in the sense of our marriage but we remained friends and our bond is just as strong as ever... more like BFF’s now... we are both happier and put more of ourselves into our friendship than we ever did as partners...
Yep i lost my career, many years of building myself up and creating a reputation in the industry was taken away from me... but i rallied and went back to college to get a degree in nursing where i work at both a long term care facility and the local hospital. My colleagues and I at both places of employment are like my second families, we do so much together and I could not imagine living life without them.
I could keep on writing about the good in my life but the point i am trying to get across is that by just accepting the losses, moving on and focusing my attention on rebuilding i created a better life than i ever could have if i remained in my old life with my former friends and former career. The old just holds you back from the growth you need to truly experience life as your authentic self.
Hi Lisa.
So many questions, so many decisions to take, so many people involved.
I look forward to possibly meet with you within the next month or so, as I have a few business trips planned in Montreal in April. I definitely do NOT pretend to have answers…. You’ve already received numerous words of advice/wisdom from many of the ladies on this site. But I’ll try to be the best listener possible while trying to help you see more clearly.
I’ll send you a private email with my agenda. Hope it works.
Adelaide
Hey Magan,
thanks you I can definitely see how looking back you could see that the hard decisions could be the best decision you ever took... I am glad to see that everything worked out for you and I hope all my decisions will lead to a similar outcome ...it's just hard to take that first step off the cliff.
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Hey Adelaide so looking forwards to meeting you also... I'm sure we can work something out :)
Lisa, from out of the ashes rises the Phoenix.
Making the decision to transition felt like tossing a hand grenade into the middle of my life! It was scary and exhilarating. Looking back it seems crazy to me what I tolerated for the "privilege" of a "normal life" and it turns out I didn't blow anything up that wouldn't have crumbled under the weight of a titanic amount of other issues let alone my gender identity. My first marriage was doomed before it started. I'm not really that sexually attracted to women so regardless of the GD the situation was untenable not to mention she was and still is a miserable person.
It is humbling to me to think how much heartache and pain I stupidly endured to reach my breaking point!
Guess there is no sense in trying to deny my stubborn masochistic streak!
I was so closed off from myself and incapable of accepting reality.
I try not to dwell on the negatives now, It occurred to me that there are always positives and there are always negatives. I get to decide at any given moment which aspects of right-now I choose to devote my mental and emotional energy to.
I know, I'm a mental giant! It's only taken me 42 years to "discover" these concepts that have existed, in writing for thousands of years in cultures and spiritual teachings around the globe. I'll be receiving the No-Bell prize for reinventing the wheel.
I'm by no means perfect and often slip into negativity, self-pity and depression I try to redirect my thoughts. at first its just a distraction but over time it's less about distracting from pain and more about deliberately choosing acceptance and just being OK
At the end of the day no amount of suffering I endure will improve anyone else life. If my pain brings anyone pleasure they are the one who suffers for no one can live a contented life seeking revenge, it poisons the soul.
Life is full of heart breaks and raw deals, as the Buddha said "life is suffering"
If I let the pain overwhelm me I sink into depression If I refocus my attention on what can make it better the pain can be a powerful motivator!
The situation you find yourself in is no ones fault and assessing blame is a meaningless waste of energy.
Time will tell what is to become of the relationship you have with your wife. Perhaps you will become friends or you could just as easily drift apart until she's just somebody that you used to know. either way the important thing to remember is you are not responsible for her feelings you are responsible for your words and actions.
Be kind, especially to yourself!
Trust me, you're gunna need it.
Unfortunately I'm in a similar position and after being on my own for 6 years, the turmoil, loss and pain are still there. Even being on hormones hasn't diminished these feelings. But your wife would have eventually figured it out, like mine did and that's when life changed. Wish I could figure this out and offer help, but no. This forum is a great place and I do drive 90 miles to my resources, it is worth the drive. Keep looking for a therapist or someone that can help you, All the best Patty.
Hi Aprilrain,
thank you so much for your insight, I realize that I am only responsible for myself but still find it really hard not to take others (especially my wife's) feelings into consideration thought if you think of it I take hers into consideration but she doesn't take mine into consideration... as I mentioned before I guess I really need to take that 1st step off the cliff and hopefully things turn out right in time.
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Hi Patty,
yes not to worry therapy is the one thing I am sure of and even if it is expensive I guess my mental heath is worth it.