And maybe be a bit curious how their guy would look dolled up ?
I would think Gals by now would no longer be shocked to catch their guy seeing what its like to wear fun Girl Clothes.
I'm not sure if women even react at all these days to seeing actors doning dresses and heels for what ever reason ?
Any thoughts ?
Does your S.O. even say anything if you are watching TV or a movie in which a guy ends up putting on women's clothing ?
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Robbie,
The problem is they are mostly comedy shows which may not do us any favours . On the other extreme they are often shown as very camp or some sort of sexual deviant .
There's not much storyline in just showing a guy who happens to be commfortably TG .
The answer is no.
No. Male actors playing female parts goes back HUNDREDS OF YEARS and yet crossdressing still isn’t accepted. “Bosom Buddies” isn’t going to change anyone’s mind. (By the way, what ever happened to the guy that wasn’t Tom Hanks? Do you think he’s just sitting around hating his life?)
Micki, Peter Scolari? He's still working: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Scolari
Robbie, besides what the others have already said, your examples are from the way-back machine.
That's it, in a nutshell.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teresa
No, "Ru Paul's Drag Race" isn't really helping us, despite it's popularity.
Things are changing, albeit by small increments. "Orange is the New Black" and "Supergirl" come to mind as shows which regularly feature trans characters, but we still have a very long way to go.
No. Media versions of crossdressers are jokes, caricatures and negative stereotypes. Perhaps the most common version is those ladies on RuPaul's Drag Race. They are so over the top with heavy makeup and sequins that they're not relatable.
You know that they’re doing DRAG right? It’s a performance art. It’s for entertainment. Bringing drag into this conversation is like saying “you know kabuki isn’t doing anything for us. The over the top makeup and dated costumes are not relatable”. Please don’t criticize drag if you don’t understand drag. Also, drag does a LOT for the trans community.Quote:
Originally Posted by suzanne
Okay How about Jimmy Fallon and Rudy JuilianoQuote:
Originally Posted by Macey
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Tv is not real life. So no, I don’t think women are.
WE know that they're doing drag, but the rest of society, thinks all crossdressers' goal is to be like that. And when you look through the pics online here, and the youtube crossdresser videos, it certainly seems like they're right a lot of the time. How many here think heels are sexy, and wear them despite the obvious discomfort? And lets not kid ourselves; they're uncomfortable. When you choose a shoe to wear for a 20 mile hike, no one chooses heels. NO one. Wear heels and be on your feet all day? What's the first thing you want to take off when you come home? Either the shoes come right off, or you get off your feet ASAP.Quote:
Originally Posted by Micki_Finn
Looking sexy is the goal; after all, it is for GG's, and so as it is for most of us. Despite all the talk from women 'I don't dress to attract men', for some reason what they think looks good on themselves, just happens to emphasize their sensuality as well. Body hugging garments, revealing every curve and a whole lot of skin, just coincidentally is what they think looks good, and what men want to look at too.
My ex didn't understand why ANY man would want to wear woman's clothing. Let's face it, women don't need the psychological comfort of wearing female specific attire; we do.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robbiegirl
When they want to feel comfortable at home, they wear granny panties, no bra, sweats, wear ugly fuzzy slippers, and put their hair in a bun.
When we want to feel comfortable at home, we put on every frilly undergarment, a fancy snug dress, wig, make up, all the accessories, and heels.
Few, VERY few, women fantasize of dressing their mate up as women. They want masculine men. Not feminine ones. That's why gothic romances like Harlequin series sell so much. The hero riding up on the white horse to rescue the damsel in distress is a classic. That's what most women want, not dreaming of being a dominatrix ordering around a submissive crossdresser.
It does seem too many people think TV is a real cross section of the general population.
Kind of sad really because the father in many sit coms is portrayed as a bumbling idiot and the wife controls everything.
Of all the families I have known personally none of them are even close to a TV family.
I stopped watching TV in 2007 or so and don't miss it one bit.
My wife thinks nothing of it. and she knows what I look like in girl cloths every day. :hugs:
Angie
TV shows in general do not show men that cross dress in a positive light, they are there for comic relief.
Not really. My wife laughs about the movie, But won't let it happen in her bedroom
So according to you, thanks to TV, women should be used to extraterrestrial life forms (star trek), paranormal phenomena (the X-files) and a total absence of black people and other ethnic minorities in New York city (Friends, Seinfeld). Ok, my TV references are dated. So what, I don't really watch TV anymore.
Anyway, if you expect women to be educated to accept your world view from TV (a very selective world view at that, considering the variety of programming), maybe women expect the same of you. The vast majority of males on TV don't spend their time trying to look like women, they'll argue, and they'll be right. What would you say to them?
Hollywood portrays Cd'ers as being clowns, idiots, and something to be made fun of. At the same time Hollywood portrays most fathers and husbands as being clowns, idiots, and something to be made fun of. Everyone needs to be treated with dignity and respect, don't look to Hollywood, because isn't to be found!
Robbie, It is so seldom that TV shows use crossdressing as other than the but of a joke, I don't see the benefit.
Teeny-tiny references to crossdressing come up from time to time on my wife's favorite shows. Mainly Law and Order and NCIS reruns.
She does not appreciate it and I get a major eye-roll. Gay men and women in the episodes get pretty much the same skeptical attitude.
However, NCIS has been fairly sympathetic.
That is the beauty of support groups and cd conventions. After a few minutes, ones brain adjusts. Panic mode and freak-outs fade away. It is back to business as usual. Really, its no different than Halloween drag outfits, drag shows, Ru Paul, and Rocky Horror Picture Show. Same person--dressed different.
I mean really--weren't you freaked out when you first saw your wife wearing jeans, no makeup and slept-in hair?
Gay men typically don't like crossdressers.
Crossdressers try to emulate women but TV'S just dress like women and very seldom shave there body.
Drag queens exaggerate femininity and make fun of it .
Showgirls do drag and or crossdress usually for pay.
Rupauls drag race is a mixuture of drag queens,crossdressers and transitioning TG's.
Being TG/ crossdresser still a 2nd class citizenship.
If you discount documentaries TV has little good to say about most sub-cultures and a lot of showing men as idiots. I figure we're strong enough to take it though.
But if you do take documentaries into account we fare a little better. The trans community certainly does. Movies too are getting way better at LGBT characters, themes, and stories.
Abbie,
What you don't see are members of the TG community just going about their normal business ,if it's a drama then it has to be dramatic because ordinary doesn't pull the audiences .
What we need are members of the community taking roles as newsreaders , weather or program presenters . I realise the problem with that is if they have transitioned they may not want to make an issue of it .
In my own circumstances if I do get my art group off the ground what label will I wish to be known as , maybe some might attend out of curiosity but I'm sure most won't wnt to consider the labels as long as they feel comfortable with me as a person .
That was pretty much her every day outfit. Dress or skirt? Maybe once a year, but NEVER casually. Make up? Same. At least she brushed her hair each day.Quote:
Originally Posted by JenniferR771
She was never a 'girly' girl.
I totally agree, Teresa, but your post highlights a central issue. Unless a programme or film is directly about trans issues or the plot concerns a trans person's identity then being trans is irrelevant. It's the same with anything. Race , gender, sexuality, religion, politics. These all form parts of a person's identity but they're not going to be touched on on-screen unless they're directly relevant most of the time. And rightly so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Teresa
Take your example of news readers, why would it matter to anyone if they're a GG or trans. The trans woman in question would likely be fine with the question never being raised. But once it was, that one thing alone would likely dominate all conversation and perception of her. So you're obviously right about things needing to be matter of fact and it needs to be treated nonchalantly, I guess. Mentioned in passing, but even then, particularly with programming that's not non-fiction audiences would be expecting it to be a plot point.
Call it the curse of Chekov's gun, if you will. We'd love for trans people to just be part of things without extraordinary comment but audiences will expect such a 'niche' thing to be relevant (like Chekov's gun). Why? Well, a lot of audiences haven't be exposed to a lot of things, anything other than 'just like me' baffles them. And so when minority interests are featured they're usually front and centre, often in a well-intended effort to break that ignorance, but also, at least as frequently, in an exploitative capacity. Dog Day Afternoon features a trans person almost incidentally, but given the results it hardly reflects well on the trans community. Likewise Murder by Moonlight in which being trans is literally used as a disguise (I'd apologise for spoilers but it is literally 30 years old).
But in the same time period, Twin Peaks featured a sympathetic CD (played by David Duchovny of all people) and his character's crossdressing wasn't a plot point nor a source of derision. There was some little humour derived from it, cos it's a little oddball. But then even lumber milling and coffee are a little oddball in that show. This in 89/90! It's worth noting however that the Twin Peaks community view 'Denise' as a trans woman despite no mention ever being made of any transition, and indeed 'Dennis' appears more than once. So while they're accepting and fine with a gender bending character they assume this to be indicative of a desire for full transition. The concept of a CD who's happier dressed as a woman but is still male and can present as such when required is a subtlety too far, even for a more broad-minded audience.
Coronation Street, likewise, had a sympathetic trans character and very well they handled her too, for FIFTEEN Years before the character ended her own life, but for reasons unrelated to her trans identity. Her death, in itself, is important because despite trans people killing themselves more than non-trans they chose not to make a point of that. Having her death be unrelated made her trans identity even less obvious and heavy-handed. That's pretty damn good for the UK's most watched programme.
So I do think we have improved, especially here in the UK. But obviously there's work to be done (don't get me started in bloody Mrs. Brown's Boys SMH). However, it's a fine line to walk in making it known and yet not having audiences wait for it to somehow be relevant to the plot. That level of nuance is often lacking.
One show that handled it close to "normal" was the Walton Scoggins character in Sons Of Anarchy - if "normal" could be used to describe ANYTHING on that show!
Comedies don't cut it when explaining cross dressing or transsexual situations. Visualizing a husband as a woman really does not cross a woman's mind. Maybe having a husband dolled up at Halloween may be an exception. However, even then there is no correlation being made between a 'costume' event and something more. Sometimes there is a local news report on the issue of transsexuals and transgender men and women. Many times those reports deal with very young children going through struggles. Within the last month my wife and I watched an episode on "Call the Midwife" concerning an intersex woman, and, an episode on "The Coroner" concerning a post operative woman who had been raped as a young woman and had a stillborn birth. I thought both episodes were well scripted to deal with a sensitive issue. Better than taking a comedy approach. I read an article on the internet from a woman's magazine which indicated many women have a mental image of what their husbands' may look like as a woman. Even those mental images have a negative effect on their marriages.
PS: When my wife and I went to see "Tootsie" in the movie theater she cringed at the idea.
The devil made me do it. Remember those lines?
Any body remember Flip Wilson?
What you see is what you get, honey!Quote:
Originally Posted by Georgette
IIRC he more or less retired at his peak in order to spend more time with his kids ... a class act.
As to the original post -- at best those tv shows are just entertainment without any roots in reality. Good for a few laughs, maybe a bit of relaxation after a hard day's work. Nothing more. At worst...
Or, to put it the way a "Real Man"(tm) might understand ... anyone remember The New Yankee Workshop on PBS? It was a TV show on wood-working... You Too can build all this wonderful stuff, if you have a shop with all the latest and greatest industrial power tools, every possible hand tool known to humanity, work space about the size of an airplane hanger, and so on. Us poor schnooks with a wobbly table in the corner of an overstuffed basement and a wonky circular saw ... oh well.
Fran
Women don't fantasize about how their man would look dressed as a woman. Like Lexi said, women want so-called "real men". A cruel reality for some of us, but reality none the less.
I think that the “shock factor” of seeing a cd on the street is pretty much gone but even so, I think the general consensus among most people, men and women both, is that crossdressing behavior is still strange and inexplicable to them. For the most part, people don’t seem to care and let it go with perhaps nothing more than a private comment however, sadly, there are still some pockets of intolerance as we all know. Television and movies still has not cured that piece.
All I ever see is comedic laughter at the scene portrayed.
Never any overt CD type comment.
Just a guy wearing a dress for laughs.
Most women do not believe a Crossdresser can look good dressed as a women.women see men dressed as a women as a Caricature, a joke,big shoulders, big feet, big burly man in a dress,obnoxious in a dress,.......
Even when you show women pictures of Transsexual /TG models living in stealth who don't fit the stereotype they still don't get it.they think they look like women or and models all there life and they are the Exception to there stereotypical view point of TG's/CD'S. .
Well certainly Flip Wison proved a guy can look pretty good in Dress and heels !
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