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First the media were obsessed with Tranvestites then it was Crossdressers and now its Transgender. Got me thinking is Gender Fluid the new name for Crossdressers?
Gender Fluid: Non-binary people may identify as having two genders, moving between genders or having a fluctuating gender identity.
Sound like me.....lol x
:thinking:
Imagine we have a white-hotly contested labels discussion. We've had plenty, but imagine one twice as hot.
In the best case scenario, imagine somehow we reach consensus :gh:.
So now we're all chatting away happily with our newly clarified labels which everyone agreed upon, until... you talk to someone who didn't read that thread --and there will multitudes more people who didn't read it than who did.
So now you're back to square one. All that contention for a short-lived, non-universal solution.. and that's assuming a consensus was reached in the first place.
:strugglin.
- L.
Does crossdressing equal gender fluid?
No, because gender fluid means you actually feel like the other gender. While most crossdressers will adamantly argue that they don't have gender issues. They just like dressing up like a woman.
Right now I consider myself gender fluid even though I am actually transgender. Because I go out in public in both boy or girl mode.
Vicky,
The more I go out in the RW the less I think about labels , the most important to me is my name and earning the right to use it . I have a thread running at the moment where I registered in my lending library as Terri , I then had two options in the gender box male or female , when I mentioned other labels such as NB she admitted she didn't understand them and they weren't offered as options .
I agree with Lydianne...labels belong on inanimate objects, products or goods that need to be identified as such, are reasonably easy to define, and not overly complicated. Human beings are far more complex and cannot be categorized that simply. We are a combination of genetics, upbringing, and environmental influences, and each of us comes with our own unique set of intersecting neuroses.
As for the O.P.'s original question, my response would be that yes, crossdressers might typically regard themselves as being gender-fluid or non-binary on some level, but it doesn't necessarily follow that all gender-fluid or non-binary individuals are interested in wearing the clothes typically associated with the sex opposite to the one that they were assigned at birth. You know, the way that drag queens usually claim that they get no particular thrill from wearing women's clothing as part of their acts, unlike us garden-variety crossdressers... ;)
Don't care much about labeling, I love to get dress every day and that's me, and enjoy being me.
happy dressing to all !
Being Gender fluid is part of the trangender spectrum as is crossdressing part of the transgender spectrum.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
Names may change over time, but it's when you learned the word, that is what you will remember, and be prone to use. If you look at someone who is still using the word transvestite, you will find that there culture and age have a bearing on why they are still using that word. The same can be said for the words, crossdressing, transgender, etc. If the new word, or catch phrase is gender fluid, it too will become the common word with those who, first used it, or heard it. What's in a name, if you wish, you could call yourself a pickle in a dress, but then again that would foster many questions.
Considering my obsession with shaving smooth, painting my nails clear, pierced ears and plucked eyebrows I put more emphasis on that than dressing. That is likely due to my circumstances and I'd be dressing daily if I could. The last time I had as big of a pink fog as this current one I started contemplating transition and that scared me so much that I lifted and avoided dressing for a number of years. I don't know where I fall in the spectrum but if I had to guess I'd say somewhere between gender fluid and trans. The fog came to a head over the holidays when we hosted family and I came face to face with macho hunter relatives. Imagining taking this public and coming out to people like that stopped me in my tracks but now I can feel it coming back again.
In my case my mother died of a tumor on her pituitary which secrets hormones that are connected to gender identity and sexual development. That happened in the early 60's and her doctors believed that it was the cause of miscarriages prior to me coming along. That could have caused hormone levels to be off but I can only speculate that it has any bearing on my gender issues.
I think more than using the trending label to describe me I'd like to find out what I really am and how to manage it. I am working towards that goal and that is more important than knowing the latest jargon.
While I agree with you. Most CD's don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vicky_Scot
I posted an image of a "transgender umbrella" that included crossdressers a while ago and crossdressers came out of the woodwork to claim they were not part of the TG umbrella and don't want to be lumped in with "those people"...
This is why I don't go to support group meetings anymore its nothing but what name am I? Am I gender fluid or gender non conforming or etc etc etc or one of the 52 other gender idioms.
Why are so many obsessed with putting a name with everything?
I don't want people trying to put me in some sort of category.
Yeah that is solely a question of innate identity and what you feel within yourself. If you truly feel like a woman or a man or a mix of the two and it changes at different times then gender fluid is right for you. Your presentation is just an extension of that identity in that case so no gender fluid people are not crossdressers. And crossdressers are not gender fluid.
While I have been thinking lately that gender fluid or non binary might be the best description for me, personally, it is obvious that there are plenty of MIADs on this site that don't identify that way at all.
I don't really know what my pronouns are or what I should be described as and I don't really care that much.
But, hey, if you want to spend energy on it , be my guest. I'm in favor of terms of convenience, changeable at will.
Hi Vicky :hugs:, I am just a strait guy that enjoy dressing like a pretty lady and just having the best of both worlds.
>>>>>>>>Orchid .oO:daydreaming:Oo.
Hi Vicky, I am with Rayleen on this and I am all good being me. The only labels I like are in my dresses. Cheers
I'm not too fixated on names, except that I despise the word transvestite. To me, it suggests a psychological disease that needs to be remedied. Besides that one, any term that might help a muggle understand and accept us is a useful one.
Tracii, you're right society wants to put every one in a box. It makes life easier for all if everyone fits a description that society expects and accepts. Unfortunately life is way more complex than that And there aaint nothing we can do about it :sad:
I think it is more that there are a lot of varieties of us and the general public is only now learning of the various ones. We should celebrate both the similarities and differences we have :)
Attachment 309775Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
Looks like there is an umbrella for everyone...
The truth is labels and even more so what labels fit together under what umbrella all comes down to people wanting to differentiate themselves from others they feel superior to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tracy Irving
Gender fluid makes me think something has a leak .....
The short answer is no. CDer!= gender fluid. Long answer... it's often more complex than one label can suit, especially for the gender fluid. Labels are a term of convenience. No one is "just a crossdresser". A label may be apt, but it should never be considered to imply any more than what succinctly describes
I for one am gender man. I'm just a bit kinky in an all man way. I don't even want to give myself a girl's name, other than to hide my true identity. But by gum, I like seeing myself dressed up as a woman.
For me, - Crossdressers have multiple motives, some for the sexual release, some to attract clients, some because they just want too, some to shock others (my dad and his mate, both aged 18 back in 1955 England on the beach in shorts and a bra for a "dare"), etc.
For me, - Gender fluid is about who you are internally, while some float between both genders (but have the same likes & dislikes), others have multiple personalities (often with different likes and dislikes)
This topic is really always interesting to hear everyone's view on this topic. I've always thought of myself as a transvestite, or crossdresser, and now gender fluid. It's really a valid point that gender fluid does explain how some of us are. I have always felt gender fluid since I was very young.
I agree with everyone who has said that nobody can really be defined with a label. But the best way I've been able to explain to other people about me is that I'm a crossdresser and gender fluid.
Vicky, I'm not gender fluid in my dressing. I'm either dressed as guy, my default, or fully female in a dress, stockings and heels. So for me, there is not in between.
Labels, labels, labels. We use them for everything, mostly because Western languages tend to be based on objects rather than concepts as some Eastern languages are. Classifying people in terms of gender is really difficult. It appears to me that is because we associate gender with tangible appearance and presentation rather the performance of various traits and characteristics. Appearance is very tangible; for traits and characteristics you need to know much more about the person. I think we get the whole thing mixed up with expectations that tend to be cherry picked to fit our defined concept of gender, which is mostly superficial rather than based on internal feelings. As a result we tend to come up with classifications that are based on pretty superficial concepts that tend to be highly generalized. But we often think they represent reality - they don't. The classification groups are handy for conversation, but they may be completely inconsistent with the whole package which is mostly internal and personal.
The whole thing, in my view as a biologist, is far, far more complex than the linear constructs that we use on a daily basis. Gender is multidimensional and therefore nearly impossible to define with precision and consistency. To me fluid means flowing and excludes jumping. But flowing of what? To me it is inner feelings and a changeable sense of self. Clothes do not define gender but rather express the current mode of inner feelings. So it all comes down to what each individual feels inside in their sense of self. That sense is produced in the brain and is based on the structure of the brain which is roughly defined by genetics and then modified by experience as it influences the plasticity of the brain. So, using this concept, each person will be different which is useful for evolutionary purposes. Unfortunately, we don't think in those terms and as a result we resort to categorizing based on specific criteria. That is not a problem until we start thinking the categories constitute the reality.
I consider myself gender fluid and believe that is a mild to middle range transgender and is characterized by undifferentiated inner feelings with regard to self gender identity. But if a person professes that they just enjoy dressing in women's clothes with an internal sense that they are actually still male/masculine then they do not view themselves as transgender. I that is the case I respect that rather than trying to force their identity into a pigeon hole based solely on their appearance while knowing little or nothing about their more personal sense of self. They are just different from most people. No big deal. They are being true to themselves and not a rigid social standard and that is almost always a good thing.
Crossdresser - is a noun. Anyone that puts on garments associated with the opposite sex could be labeled a cross dresser.
Gender fluid - is an adjective (describes an attribute).
One could be both, either or neither couldn't they?
Good point, Ressie.
So on your driver's license, therefore you could check both boxes or neither box. Likewise for your library card.
"It is personal."
"My anatomy tends left, but my hormones levels are to the right. So I am both."
All I know is I wear Brassieres, I am Male, I am not attracted to Men, never been with a Man and loves Women underwear, puzzle solved.
No, I don't feel it's the new CD'ing.
I also feel that it part of the reason that the general public has so much difficulty accepting us and the transgender community. There are just so many different boxes that people want to tick off to be unique it confuses everyone.
It was so much simpler when I was a teen. There were Transvestites, Drag Queens and Transsexuals. Now I need a personal psychoanalyst, personal trainer, personal style adviser and so on just to fit me into some category that tells someone else who I am. I've been trying to figure out myself for nearly 6 decades, how can I know now with all these choices??
I don't even understand any of that and it isn't a common factor, I guess, so it's likely it doesn't count
I will add to your confusion. There is also gender non conforming. Which means dosen't conform to the gender norms. You can literally use 10 different labels and all be correct in some way to be just one person. If you are fine being a crossdresser and feel that fits who you are use it. If not then figure out what fits you and use that. In the trans community there is no right or wrong way to be who or what you are. Outside of that, even with the LGB community that might not apply.
We were discussing this in our group last week and one of the girls said she may be just a crossdresser as a relative had brought that up. Our facilitator said crossdressers are welcome to if that is where you feel you fit. This is the nonbinary gender queer group. What I have found though is if you want to be there in any of the groups you are more then welcome to come and join in. This seams to be the morn in the trans community.
First of all, the "media" has too little actual news so they have to generate it. Don't take everything you see in the media seriously.
Second, where does anyone come up with the "new crossdressing"? "Crossdressing" is a person of one sex, usually male, dressing in clothes normally intended for the other sex. For the most part, it's men dressing as women. It's pretty simple.
Thank you all for your very informative and honest responses. x
For myself I have to take the position that there may be two identities lurking within my gene pool. Over the years I have become accustom to doing things I want to do without labeling them or making some sort of identification. Perhaps I am liberated in the sense I feel I do not have to conform to societal norms and expectations. Over the years I have seen societal norms and expectations change; female doctors, male nurses, etc. Some politicians feel their own self interests are being attacked when others do not conform to their self identities. What are they afraid of?
hello Vicky,
"gender fluid" is not a new name for Crossdressers; but some crossdressers can be gender fluid.
luv J
Hi, all. I guess I'm a little different as I am curious about the language used to describe groups of people, most specifically those of us who enjoy CD. Maybe it's my engineering schooling that has me studying processes, measure systems, and find a calculus to things. Perhaps it's me struggling to understand myself; to find some inner peace, which is still elusive. I guess I hope that the evolution and specificity in the language will help make it easier to talk with each other. Also to help others understand and develop comfort and compassion with our joyful endeavors.
My perspective on the terms at hand: I have made peace with "transvestite" as, technically, it is accurate, and even through it had a negative connotation, a lot of progress has been made, and we've agreed to move on from that place. I still like CD. It too is accurate and seems to reflect a non-standard "choice" of clothing. Gender fluidity and non-binary may be accurate for some where feelings, emotions, self-image, and desires move beyond mere dress play.
I miss the days when we were just the "TV/TS community", simple and easy.
When I read about using the proper pronoun the first thing that comes to mind are my struggles learning all that noun and verb stuff or whatever it's called. I can hold my own in conversation even having addressed large groups and I spent some time in Toastmasters. In spite of that I couldn't even describe what a pronoun is or what bearing the consulting the Greg's Reference Manual has on my gender issues and crossdressing.
I just know that I'm me and that sometimes I feel a pink fog that makes me feel good but causes all kinds of logistical problems in my day to day life.
What's the pronoun for that and what the hell is a pronoun anyways?
I know it's nearly impossible to remember middle school English class^ ;)
It seems these newer descriptive categories have surfaced because many younger folks wanna pinpoint exactly what they are, i.e. "I'm GQ (genderqueer) female pansexual."
Now that person fits into a special group of folks but each are individually unique. They really only have a few things in common.
I an remember when this board only had two main sections called "Male to Female Crossdressers" and "Female to Male Crossdressers".Quote:
Originally Posted by Vickie_CDTV
Now we spend our time trying to decide where we belong and who belongs there with us.
interesting b/c some trans mtf use cd label as a slur. perhaps they are not happy that cds look female without identifying as one or whateverQuote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
i personally think some cds are trans and to varying degrees
i could consider myself gender fluid when it comes to clothes b/c i do mix in female pieces w my guy clothes
From my own personal experience I believe crossdressers are transgender people in denial. You are right about it being used as a slur in some TG communities. I have heard the arguments against CD's and even more so MIAD's by TG people who believe CD's and MIAD's detract from them being taken seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by closets
BTW: I was a CD who has adamantly argued that I was not TG on this very board. Through the years I have realized that I was lying to myself most of all.
I don't believe you can get to trans without trying on a woman's dress so, yes, some crossdressers will ultimately go to trans.
How weird would it be if you were running around earth in boy mode for years and years and then one day, come out as a woman?
Oh, but Rachel that is exactly what some people's story is. There is a TG person in my support group in her 40's that swears she never had the urge to CD or felt the slightest bit TG untill a few months ago. Then it hit like a ton of bricks and they are already talking hormones and transitioning.