Observations as you experiment with ladies' clothing (learning experince).

I've noticed a few things with crossdressing that show crossdressing can be a learning experience. Examples.

1) My first experience of crossdressing was in my mid-teens with a pair of tights (within a week it was bottom half then fully dressed a week later ? I was a late developer let?s say). A programme on television and made me wonder what they'd be like and I thought I'd give it a try. As suggested elsewhere on here, there was no turning back once I tried a time of women's clothing (I wonder how many potential crossdressers there are out there who are yet to sample ladies clothing), but that's another story. You quickly learn the art of rolling hosiery onto legs rather than pull them on like pants.

2) Most other items of clothing were straight forward pull on and fasten as appropriate. Where a skirt had a zip fastening, I soon learnt to do it at the front then twist the skirt round to place the fastening at the back. Blouses were most confusing, with fastening being to opposite to men?s' shirts.

3) Walking in heels is an acquired act if the heels are too high. The positioning of the foot in a high heeled shoe is not the same as a flat shoe and you have to learn to place your foot such that toe and heel make contact with the ground roughly together and you don't have the same push up with your foot in a heeled shoe that you do in a flat shoe. This is easily learnt with heels less that say two and a half inches (as far as I think I'll push it as higher starts to hurts the ball of my feet), but harder above that height. I will make the strange comment that I have a long term knee injury and in heels, there is less pressure on that injury due to the change in posture.

4) Fastening bras and suspender belts can be interesting with hook and eye fastenings at the back. Bras especially, this is an acquired knack that takes a few goes to get right. I've seen a suggestion of fastening the bra first then pulling it on over your head and into position as an alternative. Separately, I don't think I'll ever find a bra comfortable.

5) Tights versus hold-ups versus stockings and suspender / garter belt. It's a toss-up between tights and hold-ups as to which are easier to pull on. Wearing them, hold-up elastic dig into your legs and there is a tolerance level whilst tights feel clammy in the crotch area and eventually seem to start sagging.

Stockings plus suspender / garter belt are to me the most comfortable and convenient once in place, the obvious thought being wearing the panties over the suspenders so going to the toilet meant just pulling the panties down and doing the necessary without having to undo anything else. With tights and potentially but less so hold-ups, it can be a hassle to put things back in place after the fact. However, stockings with garter / suspender belt can be the most difficult to put on.

The suspender belt is straight forward as is pulling or rolling on the stockings. But then comes the fastening of the stockings to the suspenders. Learning first to adjust the length of the suspenders to correctly fasten to the stockings then push the button through the hole then push down to fasten the stocking in place was a little tricky. Harder was fastening the rear suspender (four strap) or suspenders (six strap) until I realised, I could fasten the rear strap at the side then twist the stocking round the back to put in place, before doing the front strap last. I see why women get annoyed with them.

Another issue is the right sized stockings. If you've long legs, you need large or plus-sized stockings or the stockings can pull on especially plastic fastenings (hence recommendations of metal fastnings) and come undone.

But once you get the stockings and suspender / garter belt combination sorted, then yes, I find that the most comfortable option of the three.

Indeed, it?s a learning but enjoyable experience.

Sue

I think we all have figured that out at one point or another.

I fasten the bra in front then spin it around and put my arms through, easy peasy.

Majella, every GG I have seen put on a bra, including my mother, every girlfriend, and my wife put their bra on by hooking it in the front and spinning it around.

I have asked my wife about hooking it in the back and she just laughed and said "Nobody puts on a bra that way unless maybe they are tiny and the bra only has one hook".

I can undo a bra one handed very easily now. My girlfriend is always amazed at me doing it when we're getting frisky.

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Originally Posted by Robertacd

Majella, every GG I have seen put on a bra, including my mother, every girlfriend, and my wife put their bra on by hooking it in the front and spinning it around .

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You saw your mother putting on a bra? Damn my sheltered childhood.

When walking in heels, one does NOT put the heel and toe down together unless you want to look like a drill-team marcher. It's heel-to-toe, just like in flats, or guy shoes. One just takes smaller steps.
Jon

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Originally Posted by southerngirl

I can undo a bra one handed very easily now. My girlfriend is always amazed at me doing it when we're getting frisky.

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My wife did notice how easily I undid her bra once, oops.

Lol the good old days!

Sue,

Yep, we've all been there. Learning to do bras up, I do mine around the back, no trouble, lots of practice I suppose. Dresses with zips on the side, left or right, same for skirts. It's something discussed here many times, and for the record, they go on the left.

Heels is a two stage process. learning to walk around the house only partially prepares you for walking outside and for any distance. Only worn stocking a few times. Holdups I feel make them sort of redundant. I can see they have a certain glamour, sexiness but practicality wins out for me.

Little skills and tricks we learn along the way. Putting a skirt over a blouse then lifting the skirt to pull the blouse down to get it even all round is one example. Then there's the first time you wear false nails and nearly take an eye out because you forgot they were longer and more pointed. It's hard this CD'ing thing.

I taught myself to put my bra on with the hooks in back. To me it wasn't a hard skill to learn.

My wife commented on it while fixing her bra in front and turning it around to the back. She said that's how all women fasten them but I didn't believe her until.....

I was watching a really bad sci-fi movie with Don Johnson (A Boy & His Dog) and the female lead in the movie was dressing in the background. Yup, she fastened her bra in front and whipped it around, easy peasy.

I've done it that way ever since.

I was surprised by your "I don't think I'll ever find a bra comfortable" comment. It sounds like you may be wearing the wrong size bras. I have some very comfortable bras as well as some that are not as comfortable that I bought because I liked the look of them. If you pick the right band size to fit snugly but overly tightly, and pick the right cup size so the underwires are positioned correctly and are the right length for your body, and stretch out the bra slightly if the fit is close but not perfect (hook the bra and overnight put it over the back of a padded chair that is slightly wider than the width of your body-repeat for a few nights if necessary-a lingerie store employee gave me that tip years ago). If you do all of that then there shouldn't be any real reason your bras shouldn't be reasonably comfortable. With my most comfortable bras I can wear them for hours and barely notice I have them on.

I've always put my bras on by hooking them in the back. Perhaps I'll try hooking them in the front and then turning them around. Never thought about it. I have a couple of racer back bras that are front hook, very easy to fasten and unfasten. I find the racer back bras tend to fit me best. The straps stay in place a lot better. It's always a struggle to find the right combination of band size and cup size. Someday I'll work up the nerve to actually get fitted properly. The first time I tried on a pair of pantyhose I tried to put them on like a pair of pants. I'm sure that we all know how well that works!!! Makeup is a complete mystery to me.

Sue, I generally wear long line bras and it would be an impossibility to get eight or so hook and eyes to match up, so no option other than matching them in the front and twisting the bra around. With my girdles I often attach the snap to the stocking before pulling it up.

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Originally Posted by Helen_Highwater

Sue,

Yep, we've all been there. Learning to do bras up, I do mine around the back, no trouble, lots of practice I suppose. Dresses with zips on the side, left or right, same for skirts. It's something discussed here many times, and for the record, they go on the left.

Heels is a two stage process. learning to walk around the house only partially prepares you for walking outside and for any distance. Only worn stocking a few times. Holdups I feel make them sort of redundant. I can see they have a certain glamour, sexiness but practicality wins out for me.

Little skills and tricks we learn along the way. Putting a skirt over a blouse then lifting the skirt to pull the blouse down to get it even all round is one example. Then there's the first time you wear false nails and nearly take an eye out because you forgot they were longer and more pointed. It's hard this CD'ing thing.

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I hear you, but the elastic of hold-ups I find uncomfortable. That said, they are simpler.

The bra comments in that you fasten round the front and spin round make sense as I've found this with the suspender belt.

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Originally Posted by Aaron Zwidling

I was surprised by your "I don't think I'll ever find a bra comfortable" comment. It sounds like you may be wearing the wrong size bras. I have some very comfortable bras as well as some that are not as comfortable that I bought because I liked the look of them. If you pick the right band size to fit snugly but overly tightly, and pick the right cup size so the underwires are positioned correctly and are the right length for your body, and stretch out the bra slightly if the fit is close but not perfect (hook the bra and overnight put it over the back of a padded chair that is slightly wider than the width of your body-repeat for a few nights if necessary-a lingerie store employee gave me that tip years ago). If you do all of that then there shouldn't be any real reason your bras shouldn't be reasonably comfortable. With my most comfortable bras I can wear them for hours and barely notice I have them on.

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I don't think I've ever found a woman say they find a bra truely comfortable to be fair.

Sue,
Like others I just found the easiest way with a bra was fasten at the front and twist it round , all the GGs I've known have never fixed it from the back .

I agree with stockings and suspenders , they have so many good points , stockings are harder to buy on the High Street , I've found a good source of Charnos 24/7 , whcih are a great everyday item , being available in 3 sizes and 4 shades in double packs .
As for hold ups the simple answer is they don't ! I've been let down too many times with various makes , there's nothing worse on a freezing cold day than feeling them sliding to the knees hoping they don't go any further !

Heels are a tricky one , I have more comfortable higher heeled ones than some lower ones, it really does depend on the fit , I had no problem dancing all night in 4" ones but for the day my boots are easier on the eye at about 2".

I will admit it is a learning curve , I don't think we ever stop learning , some things become easier , like makeup and somethings do get discarded , going full time I still found as hard if not harder because I had to learn how little rather than too much with my makeup and then discovering appropriate clothes , that is when you find the holes in the choices in your wardrobe . I also admit accepting wearing jeans / trousers but then learning how to dress them up or down , for all that I could never go back to male mode .

Just another vote for the fasten and rotate bra club. By the way I rotate to the right so the tags on my bra stay aligned with the bra band. Just thought I would add that information for those who wondered.

I used the same technique for years, but have just lately begun being able to fasten the bra behind my back.

I fasten my bras in the back, always have and never found it difficult. I don't like that "abrasion" of spinning the bra around.
I can unhook my bra with one hand, and take it off without removing my shirt.

I prefer thigh highs with the silicone liner, as they stay where you put them.

Like Joni said, you walk in heels the same way you do any other shoe. The only time I ever see women land both heel and toe at the same time is on the runway and it always looks intentional, and uncomfortable. Just take smaller steps.
If you really want the practice, get a treadmill and use it to walk in your heels. Start with something short, I'd say nothing over 2"

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Originally Posted by Mackem Sue

I hear you, but the elastic of hold-ups I find uncomfortable. That said, they are simpler.

The bra comments in that you fasten round the front and spin round make sense as I've found this with the suspender belt.

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I don't think I've ever found a woman say they find a bra truely comfortable to be fair.

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I agree that can be a real issue for women, but assuming a woman is wearing the right size bra I think the discomfort has more to do with transferring the weight of the breasts to the structure of the bra than with the bra itself. Without that breast weight a bra is really just some elastic and fabric wrapped around your chest, so assuming the elastic isn't too tight against your skin, underwires aren't digging in where they shouldn't be etc I see no real reason for a bra to be all that uncomfortable.

Typically when I wear a bra the cups are either empty, slightly padded or have a set of 'enhancers' in them which weigh much less than breasts. I rarely wear forms that weigh the same as breasts, and if I do it is usually only for a few hours. When I do wear forms with realistic breast weight for hours yes the bra is less comfortable, but to my earlier point that is from the elastic now digging into my skin because of that weight transfer from the breasts to the bra band and not because the bra itself is intrinsically uncomfortable. That is a trade-off I can make as I don't have any actual breast weight, and my response assumes that is a trade-off you can make as well.

1. I don't 'roll' my stockings. I gather them up in my hands, and let them slide off onto my legs as I gently pull them up, stretching them onto my legs, and then clip them onto my garters, or if pantyhose, continue to slide and stretch them onto myself.
2. I have no problem zipping up a skirt with the zip at the side or the back, once it's pulled up to my waist.
3. Walking in heels is the same as walking in any other shoe; you land on the heel, and then fall onto the ball of the foot, and then push off with the toe.
4. Bras I do the 'clip and spin' method of putting them on, just as I've seen countless girlfriends do.
5. Tights and pantyhose will naturally slide down during the daytime as we move. I work primarily with women, who periodically need to pull their hosiery back up, but almost always do so when they go to the ladies room to urinate. So it's just a periodic natural adjustment of their clothing after that. Though, several have agreed that cheap pantyhose will often wind up with the crotch area winding up at their knees.
6. If you wear the same brand of stockings, the garters will be in the same position as with the previous wearing, unless you have intentionally released the clamps. So no adjustment is usually necessary. Most women don't automatically wash their garter belts (and many their bras as well) with every wearing. Normal sized women don't perspire as much as men do.

Okay, so here is the super secret, long time bra wearing, wonderful gg women I love, process for installing most bras.

Hold the bra to your back, upside down. Fasten the hooks in front. Spin bra while inside out and upside down (straps down). Use the straps to raise the bra as you are threading your arms into the straps, cupping the girls as it raises, and flopping the base at the same time, and wallah.

Works great.
Hugs
Meesh

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Originally Posted by Robertacd

Majella, every GG I have seen put on a bra, including my mother, every girlfriend, and my wife put their bra on by hooking it in the front and spinning it around.

I have asked my wife about hooking it in the back and she just laughed and said "Nobody puts on a bra that way unless maybe they are tiny and the bra only has one hook".

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This is why anecdotal evidence is just that. Anecdotal. I know a lot of men AND women who don’t need to do the “clasp and spin”, my wife included who NEVER puts on a bra like that. For the record my wife is anything but tiny and regularly uses bras with 3-4 eyes.

That being said, there’s nothing wrong with the “clasp and spin” if you can’t get it fastened behind your back.

For more info, see: https://ravishly.com/swoop-and-tuck-...r-bra-properly

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Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard

I fasten the bra in front then spin it around and put my arms through, easy peasy.

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Now why didn't I think of that?

My girlfriend usually leaves the hooks fastened and then pulls the bra down over her head, kind of like a t-shirt. I think fastening it the front of you, spinning it around and putting your arms though the straps is much more feminine looking. But hey, to each their own.

when I wear a garter belt I fasten the back first pulled a bit to the side then spin back then do the front.:hugs:
Angie

I've always hooked my bras from the back, and have never had a problem with that. It just seemed to come naturally, and every woman I have ever known has done it the same way.

I'm surprised by the number of comments here claiming that most GG's prefer to do the "fasten-and-spin" routine. Yes, I can see that if they have mobility issues, arthritis, or rheumatism etc. in their joints, or are so "curvy" that they have a hard time getting their arms around their backs. That seems counterproductive, though. Being "large" also pre-supposes having big, hefty breasts, and why would anyone want to drag a snug bra band across those with the attendant chafing...especially in the sensitive nipple area, if they don't have to?

My Wife is fairly large and always fastens her bras to the rear and then leans forward to settle her boobs into the cups.
I also always do my bras up to the rear.

I often have to zip my skirts up the front and spin as I am a little overweight around the middle and find it easier to get the zip up properly that way. When I have lost a little weight it is a little victory if I can do a skirt zip up at the rear!

I have some sports bras with a lot of straps and no hooks. I find it easiest to step into it and pull it all the way up. This may be an even easier technique if you have no hips.

my wife and previous girlfriends have always hooked their bras inback. A girlfriend taught me to put my arms through the bra arm openings and bend forward and adjust the bra cups to cover the girls, reach behind and hook the band. Then stand up and adjust the straps to give support to the girls. Bras today have the adjusters in back so you can't do that anymore. I can reach behind and hook them. My*wife does the back thing with triple hooks.

My mother did the hook and spin as did my sisters. One doesn't wear bras, no boobs I got them.

My biggest learning experience was "Do Not, and, I repeat Do Not try to squeeze into your mother's bra!!!!" As a teen I had only one source of women's clothing....my mother's. This was before the invention of spandex or other stretchy material in bras. Or at least my mother's bras. I squeeze into her one and only black bra and snapped a strap. Duh! WTF to do? I tucked it back in her lingerie draw and prayed she would never have any need for it. Nothing was ever said to my brother or me, but, I was the chief suspect. The hunt was on and my mother and father tried their best to catch me. Never did, thank the goddess! Life would have been very short.

So, buy your own clothes.

Bras:

On the first date with my future wife, we were in the van after the club closed and making out. I reached around and tried to unhook her bra. I couldn't find the hooks. Eventually she whispered (we were both a bit tipsy) "It unhooks in the front." Yep her bra that night had the hooks in front between the boobs.

Me, I hook the bra in front and rotate it around until the hooks are in the back and the cups are in the front. I have a couple of skirts with rear zippers and I have to do them the same way.

I have a different way of hooking the bra. I have my butler clasp the bra.

When I did wear bras I would do them in the front and spin, just because it seemed easier and more reliable though I had no issues hooking it in the back directly. My wife always hooks in the back and when she had issues with her back still didn't want to try the front and spin method and would just rely on me fastening it.

I like the idea of hold ups but never seem to stay so I prefer stockings and garter the few times I am not barelegged.

Never had to spin a skirt, though I prefer skirts with belt loops or elastic waists so they can handle a wider range of sizes.

Definitely lots of learning initially when embracing ladies' clothing. One I think was even though used to my flat wedding ring, a ornate feminine ring on my right hand would interfere with things I did and snag on stuff sometimes. Learning how to tighten a corset. Experiencing a wide range of styles and fabrics not normally seen in menswear.

Always spin the bra after hooking in front.

after practice, I learned to walk with heels, practice makes perfect and pleasurable .

Love to have a variety of tops and skirts and love to mix n match.

At 16 I learned from my GF to fasten it in the rear. After several years I gained weight to the point I had to fasten in the front and spin it, but then I started buying front closure bras and absolutely luv them.

Men eh? Got to have a giggle at them don't ya!

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Originally Posted by Majella St Gerard

I fasten the bra in front then spin it around and put my arms through, easy peasy.

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Same here, seems like the easiest way to do it.

Hi Majella, If at first you don't succeed, try, try again! Especially with heals and eye makeup, well makeup in general. Thanks for sharing.

With a bra, I find that if I fasten and spin then the straps can get twisted, so I fasten it at the back. It's really easy and works for me.

When I was a child, my Mum worked night shift. Dad worked evening shift. Because I was the eldest and the only one still awake when she dressed for work, I spent the time with her while she dressed. It was a special time for us. My Mum always wore stockings with garters. I am a visual learner, so I knew at an early age how to roll stockings to put them on. I could apply makeup at a similarly early age. For makeup, I soon learned that less is more. The same less is more applied for perfume. I never saw her put on her bra but I was quite impressed at how well she could put on her dress that buttoned in the back. She was on her feet all night so she always wore orthopedic shoes. Even when she dressed for a date night with Dad, she never wore heels. It is probably no surprise to anyone who reads this forum that I was already thinking about getting my own femme clothes at age five and I dressed fully en femme for Halloween at age nine.

Because of how the local schools were organized back in the 1960s, I lived out of state with my maternal grandparents for my first year of schooling. I learned how Grandma and my young aunt dressed. Grandma wore the house dress of the era with the seamed stockings and booties with moderate chunky heels that we see in WW2 era photos. She normally cooked breakfast wearing her slip and her slippers, then finishing her dress and hair after I left for school. Auntie wore the midi dresses like all tween girls then. She wore her slip to breakfast just like Grandma but Auntie was too young for a bra. I often watched her put on her dress, ankle socks or knee socks, and Mary Jane shoes and finish her hair. I quickly learned what all was involved in dressing as a girl or woman. It has stayed with me for a lifetime.

So, moving away from the bra issue one of the many things that has come along for me is dresses and tops with lace or crocheted sleeves and trying not to snag them with my nails while putting my arms down the sleeve.

I have a black top with lace shoulders so that poses the dilemma of going for a strapless bra or having bra straps visible which sort of spoils the look. If strapless how do you make sure forms stay put?

Do you colour match going back to bras? I have a coral pink crochet top with a pink cami underneath so my instinct is to wear a dark red bra with it (it's the closest colour I have). Wearing something that rwally contrasts you soon learn again spoils the look plus if you are out and about GG's notice there things and know you've made the effort.

Yes, dressing is always a wonderful experience. My favorite part are making necessary adjustments. There?s nothing I wear that I don?t make some adjustments. My bras are my best example...first, second, third, fourth or fifth hook, shoulder strap adjustments, front hook, back hook, leaning forward to scoop, with or without forms. I also hook in front and spin to the right. I adjust my hose, garters, skirts, blouses, makeup, etc. As we know during the day, things shift...more adjustments. Fun.

Helen, make a fist with the thumb inside your fingers, and put you fist down the sleeve.

Exactly! One must learn to walk heel to toe or you look like you are walking more like a man, clumping along. I have worked with Phoebe Cross here in Atlanta and she loves my gem movements!

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Also, I never saw my mother putting on a bra. In the early years I may have used the front hook and spin method but later I became proud that I could hook it behind my back. Part of becoming a woman! I did see my mom on hose early on. That was one of the first lessons I learned was to gather the hose and roll it up my legs.

When I was a teenager it was easy to hook my bra in back, but age has limited my range of movement, so now it’s hook and spin. I still can unhook them from the back though.

I just learned from a friend, put the eyelash adhesive on your lids and not the eyelash.
Really helps get them on. Or, so I've heard.

I only have trouble with a couple of dresses, that have a lace or net covering, attached at only a couple places---When they get "Wrong side out" it is the devil to straighten them back up again to put them on.------As far as bras go, I find the "T-Shirt" method works best---Hook the hooks, and put your head and arms through like a T-Shirt and pull it down into position---quick and easy--if you have no REAL Boobs to get in the way.

I never thought about it in such detail as you have done. I grew up with three older sisters. I must have developed some skills through osmosis because I have always known how to roll stockings or pantyhose to properly dress in them. I always have hooked my bras in the back because I thought that was the best way and that's how my sisters did it. I did walk in on them by accident more than once to know. I even knew how the button up a blouse with back buttons. I find these kind of blouse are very feminine and always present with a pretty front while still affording a tailored fit that pull over blouses don't. Walked in heels for so many years that I stopped thinking about it a long time ago. However, like most real ladies of my years they are getting less tolerable than lower heels. Have fun learning,

All very good advice. I've ruined my fair share of nylons and stretchy-items doing it the wrong way.

And on the flip side for those not living by themselves or having concerns of being seen:
How do you get everything OFF as fast as possible when you hear a knock at the door or an unexpected car pull into the driveway?
It's like the reverse-fireman's-method~ :brolleyes:

Everything off together and sorted our later.
That's why the make-up option was such a rarity.