Why is it difficult for women in general to accept their partners as crossdressers ?

I think that man in the feminine world is the masculine tag which integrate to their inner sexual belonging attraction feelings , for example ...women are attracted to men by nature and vise versa ,,,, where they feel the need to expose their beauty and loveliness to their loved ones ,,, .......that is why this contradiction in the image process( as crossdressers) becomes exhausting to them ....they want to feel that men needs their love and attention and not the opposite reaction ,,I think women ( especially wives ,girlfriends )looking at us as women might be scary for one reason ,,,,they might think that we will no more desire their beauty anymore and become the compitition ....and believe me that is scary to them .....that is why we should always show our love and support to them all the time as women and as a loving partner as well .what do you think ????

In my case, it was my wife thinking I was going from Bruce to Caitlyn that scared her. And understandably so. Had she read some comments here about how that is inevitable, we probably wouldn't last. Once she realized is a fetish and nothing more she was ok with.

Many different reasons people CD. Many different reasons wives don't like it. If the tables were turned, I wouldn't like it either

Rian,
I know some members will say it should have been disclosed before a permanent relationship formed but I know it isn't as simple as that .

Sometimes I felt I was trapped in a male straightjacket doing what was expected of a boy/man , on the whole I've lived up to that for many years but for many the female side has to come into being . In that process the male may or may not disappear , for some closet dressing is enough for others transition finally has to be the honest answer .

So the question who are we really cheating , our wives /partners or ourselves ? I had all the accusations thrown at me but no matter how guilty or ashamed I was made to feel the need just became stronger and stronger . I love to read other members stories of wives/partners who still see the true value in their CDing / TG partner , they are determined to make it work and the majority succeed . They may have lost a husband but they have gained far more because they're not seen as competition or something scary , they still find they can be attractive , nothing has taken that away and as a bonus they have somebody very special to share it with .

I appreciate my wife may not to live with me now but I know she regrets not being more accepting and understanding , she just didn't believe I could go on and live my life as a woman who would be openly accepted by everyone and not go on to live a lonely life as a sad recluse they predicted .

In answer to your thread question , it will only become easier when members like myself are free to openly live our lives and show many of their fears are unjustified , we are not bad people , we are still a good partner and father/parent to their children . The World does not end !

This is a deep and complex question, and has many answers, even though your original premise is somewhat of a generalisation. I know many women, I am married to one such, who is more than happy to share her life with me whatever my gender identity. But to cover some bases, important things in this include (there are many) "not being the 'man' I married", "secrecy" and "how far will you want to go?" It's not helped with it be a bit of a taboo subject in the real world either. As Teresa says, the more that Trans is seen in the real world, the more 'normal' (society's word, not mine), it becomes.

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Originally Posted by rian

women are attracted to men by nature and vise versa

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This is not always the case is it?

Why is it difficult for women in general to accept their partners as crossdressers ?

Take a minute and put yourself in their shoes!!!! X x x

My wife has struggled with my dressing since I first told her 2 years before we married in 1969. She has probably related every classic question or comment in our many conversations about my dressing. "Are you gay? Do you want to attract men? Real women do not wear dresses all the time. You look better in a dress than I do. I don't want to dress all girly like you. What if someone recognizes you? Do You want to become a woman? Are you like that Caitlin Jenner? I don't understand why you would want to go through all this to look like a woman." I've heard it all. I have been as honest as I could be on many of these points and lied about a few to preserve my marriage. I do love her but she will never understand the feeling of completeness that we get from appearing as the whole person we are, if only for an occasional day or two. And I will always love her. She gave me 3 incredible children who gifted us with 7 wonderful grandchildren. That's a pretty great thing considering all we have been through.

When I was "discovered" by my wife (long story) we spent weeks talking about this. Of course there were many tears as well but there were particular things that she presented during that time that seem somewhat universal.

Firstly she felt I was compensating for something she lacked. Be it aging, weight gain or other she felt that my attraction to her had diminished and I was making up for that with my dressing. It was difficult for her to understand that she was Not the reason. I am slightly older and when I told her I wore stockings before she was 10 so how could I be compensating it was still hard for her to see that wasn't the case.
Secondly she felt I was competition. To this day she will buy a dress or a top, try it on and not like the way it looks. Then she'll tell me to try it and say that everything looks better on my. I happen to have changed little since high school whereas she has gained some weight. She initially felt if we went out that I was trying to out do her, to look better, to show her up. She saw me as women see their girlfriends when the dress and go out. It took a long time for her to accept that I wear what pleases me and what I feel good in, not what will make her look bad.
Thirdly she had the usual concern ... "are you gay?", "do you want to be with a man?", "do you want to transition and become a woman?". Again, it took time and conversation to work through those concerns. She was afraid she was losing her husband. Now she sees that she has not lost him, but she has gained a loving girl friend. She has someone who can handle repairing the car and then sit down and watch "Say Yes to the Dress" and discuss the gowns, how they look on the brides-to-be. We watch Wheel of Fortune and talk about Vanna's outfit every night.

There are other things as well. It was difficult for her to "visualize" her husband transformed and accept that image as the same person.

Time, open Honest conversation and love were the things that allowed my wife to become fully accepting and I love her all the more for it. Many women won't take the time, can't handle the conversation or don't really have the love to try. So many things are involved. It's not easy...for either of us.

No. It’s because straight women aren’t attracted to other women. The other possible reason is sexist attitudes like this where men think they can somehow “out woman” women.

Briefly, I am blessed with a supportive wife. 🙏 I told her before we wed...expecting her to bolt. She didn?t. We spent many, many hours talking, reading, thinking, etc. In my case, to this date, I still don?t understand why I cd. I just know it?s a permanent part of my life, beginning early in my life. So, if I don?t understand why, how can I expect her to understand? I can?t and don?t. Don?t we all, to some degree, fear things we don?t understand? Other items include: items mentioned by others...sexual orientation, competition, expenses, image, fear of outing, social non acceptance, etc.

Well we can guess and imagine all kinds of reasons why....

But it comes down to most GG's are atracted to GM's. Spacifically GM's who look and act like a "traditional" GM.

They just aren't atracted to GG's or GM's that want to look like, act like, or become a GG.

That's just nature, I don't understand why we have such a hard time accepting this.

The biggest issue I've seen on this forum is the broken trust issue. If you hide it for a long time and then reveal it or worse, are discovered, that is a very difficult issue to fix. Relationships are based on trust.
Those of us who reveal it very early on have a much easier time.

Marion

"If I wanted to be married to a woman, I would have married a woman!" That was the plain and simple answer to my cross dressing. That led to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell."

Obviously its different for everyone....but in my opinion there are two primary reasons.

1. Women want their men to be men. And until they realize that CDers can still be their men and as masculine as they need them to be, this is an underlying image that blocks what they initially signed up for. I realize this isn?t black and white in every situation.

2. I may get blasted for this, but I think Crossdressing is often very selfish. The very nature of it is very self-centered around the CDer. Selfies and the mirror become your best friend. Crossdressers can be compulsive and not let up with their wishes...it often becomes more than just underdressing, etc and it can take a life of its own. Im sure many Crossdressers are passive aggressive with their spouses...partially because men and women communicate differently. The woman struggles to understand the need (is it a fetish, is it going to get worse, etc?). Couple this w/the point above, and I think you have a perfect storm of sorts.

I think if most husbands would make sure that their spouse is #1. Put her first...her needs, her overall welfare. If you have children, make sure you put family first. Are you an average husband, good husband, or an awesome husband? When you married her, you would likely have done ANYTHING for her. Its natural for that dynamic to change. Spouses sometimes have other emotional challenges...marriage is hard even when all cylinders are firing. Anything that is added to it, adds friction and more challenges.

Anyway, if Husbands are careful, if they serve (not expecting anything in return). If they are good listeners, good lovers too, then you can start to set up a safe place to start talking about these things that are important to you. And IF your wife knows she is first, that will be easier, and she’ll more likely not see your dressing as a threat. If you dont even do the little things (dishes, make the bed, clean your crap, dont pull your weight in general....good luck w/that).

Some will say that you also have to be happy, and of course thats true. But I can tell you from my 25+ years of marriage, that when you put your wife and family ahead of you, things work out just fine...and you also will have a better way to manage your feelings and challenges associated w/the Pink Fog.

One more factor...I also think a lot of men are clueless about how to cross dress...how to be subtle and their opinion of what defines the feminine image is sometimes based on their stereotypical sexual image, thats coupled with a heavy dose of makeup and clothes, that dont fit and now youre likely to add to the old transvestite stereotype that isnt flattering on an already very masculine looking man. Obviously this is tougher for some than others...some of us are 6’5”, 200+lbs and hairy beast...and its tough to make that look into a cute little girl...especially if youre just getting started...so go slooooow and I would say, go subtle. I think if you can also make your manly side more attractive, cleaner, hygienic, etc...youre gonna be better off too.

My two cents.

It is very selfish to see it only from our perspective. What if it was the other way around ? If our SO, started crossdressing behind our backs (as most of us have done), would we be as accepting and loving ? Would we love them as we did when we first met ? Would they still attract us as much ?

DT does make a good point. Frankly until I accepted myself as being transgender, I often thought of my crossdressing as the apitome of narcissism.

There was a post about this long ago in the "ask a GG" thread (I think) where a GG lamented about how some crossdressers make everything all about the crossdressing. She related how she felt they couldn't even go for a walk without him making it into a big crossdressing thing...

for me it has always worked because that is what she wanted from the beginning my wife wanted a wife in the traditional role and it works. sometimes when we go out she will dress like a man in a three-piece suit with a realistic fake beard and we go out as man and wife we have fun with this.
I think if women got to know the person before they are married and it's all honest and natural. there are no hidden agendas this way many people will find out late in the marriage about crossdressing and what it means for their future. my wife and I have spoken to many people about this subject in the past and you would be surprised how many women will read an erotic story about a guy dressing and living full time as a woman. and they like the idea of having a crossdresser in their lives.

Praderas,
It depends what drives the need , gender dysphoria can be experienced by either gender . The problem comes when some members call it a hobby , I would think it very unlikely women would take it up for a hobby , to us the would be so inplausable to here them talk about a drawer full of Yfronts .

I was acuused of being selfish amongst other things but name calling helps no one , dealing with dysphoria can hardly be called a selfish act .

DTelia ,
There are some holes in your assumptions . I worked 8 days a week to please my family and also bury my CDing problem , when it finally came to it , it turned out to be worthless as far as my wife was concerned . As far as my children are concerned I had done more than enough not to lose their respect and support . To support the family selflessly can backfire , the assumption then becomes it will continue no matter what , at some point you have to consider your own needs otherwise it can turn to total resentment .

The selfish label works both ways , I agree it can be a very self centered act but when entering counselling looking for answers does it still remain selfish ?

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Originally Posted by Teresa

Praderas,DTelia ,
There are some holes in your assumptions . I worked 8 days a week to please my family and also bury my CDing problem , when it finally came to it , it turned out to be worthless as far as my wife was concerned . As far as my children are concerned I had done more than enough not to lose their respect and support . To support the family selflessly can backfire , the assumption then becomes it will continue no matter what , at some point you have to consider your own needs otherwise it can turn to total resentment .

The selfish label works both ways , I agree it can be a very self centered act but when entering counselling looking for answers does it still remain selfish ?

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I don?t disagree. Relationships are complicated. I apologizing for not being more sensitive.

But a couple things... I wouldn?t look to avoid or bury the CD?ing, knowing that the pressure, stress, etc. builds. And I think every case is different. In an ideal situation, the spouse knows more about this going into the marriage as was my situation...granted I know every case is different.

Balance is key...though I still maintain that in many, maybe most cases (I don?t have evidence, only what I read here and elsewhere) that CDers are self centered and often think of nothing else.

Women may have a hard time because society has conditioned us all to believe that a woman's place in the world is beneath that of a man. Therefore, why would a man choose to risk ridicule in order to diminish his relative power in a social context? Also, why am I (she) learning about this now? What else has he been hiding? Well, a woman might conclude that her man's willingness to risk ridiculous and social ostracizm must be because he is transsexual, or he is trying to attract men or there is simply something wrong inside his head. Any of these possibilities spell doom and gloom for a woman in a relationship.

...and that's why women may have a hard time.

What Micki said and thanks for that because its true . I also agree with DT's post

Micki's whole post ,plus yes, the hiding and the lying and the extreme narcissism that can many times come with this and I like androgynous guys and do not like really masculine types at all - so its not that .

OP, in no way are any of you going to become any kind of competition and thinking that way will get you nowhere , also , if you think about it we do not want the kind of men you are going to attract . Yeah we may be with one because we don't know but no way would I voluntarily go for a "chaser".

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Originally Posted by Teresa

I worked 8 days a week to please my family and also bury my CDing problem , when it finally came to it , it turned out to be worthless as far as my wife was concerned . As far as my children are concerned I had done more than enough not to lose their respect and support . To support the family selflessly can backfire , the assumption then becomes it will continue no matter what , at some point you have to consider your own needs otherwise it can turn to total resentment .

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This is a perfectly normal statement from a selfish person. When you decided to marry and then decided to have kids, supporting them wasn't/isn't something you negotiate. It's simply something you do, like the bird that finds food to bring back to the nest. It's what you signed up for.

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Originally Posted by Micki_Finn

No. It?s because straight women aren?t attracted to other women. The other possible reason is sexist attitudes like this where men think they can somehow ?out woman? women.

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I think this is spot on.
After all, we all dress our best, whenever we dress.
Personally, i sit around the house in a little black dress and heels etc, which i can understand that Women may consider this over the top.
"why do you need the make up?"
"Why do you need the boobs?"
and so on.

It took years before my wife would finally admit that she found me erotically attractive when I was dressed. Before that she decided to listen to her friends who asserted that I was on the way to complete transition and so could never bring herself to fully accept me. Once she finally decided to ditch her friends’ advice and listen to me instead things got amazing. But what a waste of those years! In retrospect I wish we had gone to joint counselling at the beginning, I would now recommend that to anybody having problems.

CDing by itself may not be the entire issue. Attitudes and behavior have a big role the way some women see CDers (beyond the clothes). For instance, how many people do you see on this site get excited about the attention that men give them? I could name many "behavior" examples but everyone here has read most of them.

Yes, Micki has a good point.

There?s a truism that most men are attracted by physical attributes of a woman (looks) and most women are attracted by accomplishment and standing in the world. A woman?s perceived standing in her world is largely determined by how others view her choice of mate.

A woman can be ?proud? of her firefighter or paramedic husband?s ?hero? status. Only less so of a factory worker?s status.

Crossdressing, because of the general public attitude, lowers a man?s potential standing in the world and therefore most women?s perception of herself as she relates to the world. Some women will naturally fall outside the norm and others will only come to terms with the situation with some effort and soul searching.

Obviously that?s a generalization and oversimplification, but I can?t help but think it captures a fair portion of most women?s motivations and demotivations.

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Originally Posted by Bea_

There?s a truism that most men are attracted by physical attributes of a woman (looks) and most women are attracted by accomplishment and standing in the world. A woman?s perceived standing in her world is largely determined by how others view her choice of mate.

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My wife convinced me to put up my University diploma and numerous awards in the office at work. Easily the largest collection.

So what does it mean where you have the seniority and status to wear whatever you want?

Marion

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Originally Posted by Maid_Marion

My wife convinced me to put up my University diploma and numerous awards in the office at work. Easily the largest collection.

So what does it mean where you have the seniority and status to wear whatever you want?

Marion

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My take is that your wife takes pride in your accomplishments and sees them to be worth celebrating. And, she may feel a certain sense of pride that you will own your style.

Just reading the forum, it's obvious that there are both exceptions to the truism and extreme examples that 'prove' it. Your wife seems exceptional.

Micki said it all, in few words and very accurately. Bravo.

Monica,
That is a totally untrue statement , of course I realised my responsibilities but as it turned out there was far more to the situation .

Without a second thought I spent any spare time renovating two homes for my daughter and then two for my son . When my wife and I decided to separate I spent 7 months renovating her new home before I was in a situation to buy mine . In a heated agrument after my wife declared I hadn't done enough for her , at that point I did become selfish because I was totally ****** off . Please don't give me lectures about being selfish , I couldn't have done more for my family over the years .

Enough of the personal back and forth .
You made your points DROP IT .
Keep the discussion to the original question / post.

My wife is a combination of multiple issues already discussed. She is not happy that I hid this from her (I denied it myself and never told her about my history of it as a teenager due to shame and once I got back into it I told her within months, but she says I should have been honest about my teenage history a long time ago and it wasn't truthful to hide it). She is not attracted to women and does not find me dressing as one or partly as one attractive. She does get annoyed when I "out women" her, in particular she can't wear heels due to her medical history and never a fan of the more womanly outfits (and after telling her she went on a shopping spree for dresses for months).

And I don't think you can say well I would accept her if she crossdressed because I think society is more tolerant of a masculine woman vs a feminine man so it isn't a fair comparison.

There has been a lot of good points made here. I agree with that wives expect their husbands to be men.

As far as as acceptance, if can be difficult to understand why some wives do, and sometimes don`t. Starting with a good relationship helps emensly. If the relationship was strained before it won't get better when your wife finds you dressed. Some wives can be narcissistic. You can be a great husband and father and when your little world revolves a little less around them and a little more around yourself they get angry. No matter what you won't please them. Narcissism runs rampant in my wife's family so get a first had view of it, luckily my wife didn't inherit the trait.

I love buying my wife things, I always have, simple things. I found out if I buy myself a dress or heels it gets forgotten if I buy her something too. It can be about anything. I have bought her some inexpensive dresses that are pretty trampy. I like them on her and she knows I like to see her in them so it works out for both of us.

I help out around the house. I do laundry, I cook meals once in a while, or help my wife prepare a meal. I help clean house, I could go on. When my wife found out about my desire to dress it got very stressful. I even asked her if she wanted a divorce, her response? "Hell no, we will get through this, and besides, all the other men I know would make terrible husbands!"

In small towns and possibly some bigger ones, a woman's status is at least parlty determined by her husband's status. I do not defend this - it is just the way things are sometimes. If a man dresses as a woman, he is lowering his own status to that of a woman, which in turn affects his partner. If a little girl wants to dress as Superman she is encouraged, but if a little boy wants to dress as Elsa, this is discouraged - because he would be lowering his status. If we want to be free to wear our clothes more and cause less distress to our partners we have to do our bit to ensuring that women have equal status to men, and it is a sad reflection of our society that we are nowhere close to that yet.

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Originally Posted by Maid_Marion

The biggest issue I've seen on this forum is the broken trust issue. <snip> Relationships are based on trust

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It goes far deeper than that, though. After all, plenty of women 'hide' some of their own unpleasant personality traits from their mates before marriage as well, yet feel entitled because they feel it isn't important that he know. And that's what it really comes down to: Whether we consider our 'hidden' thoughts and behavior to be important to our potential mate or not. And that's where the problem comes in; as most of us were crossdressing for long before we met our wives/GFs, it became even somewhat normal to us, and we forgot just how weird the rest of the world thinks we are.
And women have had through nearly all of human history, relied on men for protection and support. Finding out that we might not be the 'traditionally masculine' male that they expected, can disrupt everything they expected to find in us. And then the attraction can be gone, and so will she.
Think about how many women stay with men who abuse them, treat them terribly, and even eventually kill them. Look at the prisoner junkie girls who eagerly contact convicted felons, and await them to be released from their incarceration. It's the macho, masculine idea of those men that get those women attracted. And it's something that our penchant for dressing up as a girl, just simply destroys the attraction for them.
In my case, I thought I had 'beaten it', or grew out of crossdressing. I hadn't done it in ten years, and thought I never would have again. Yet several years into our marriage, the stress of everything else, would no longer allow my mind to repress the crossdressing desires, and it all came back stronger than ever.
I knew it was going to be a problem, but in every scenario I could imagine, I truly believed that all the other good things about me would surely be more than enough to outweigh my crossdressing, right?
NOPE.
I hadn't understood that sexual attraction isn't based on what we are, but on what others THINK we are. They fall in romantic love with who they think we are.
Anything that disturbs who they believe us to be, can destroy any love they have for us. Doesn't matter if it's we who actively deceived them, or if they who ignored all the signs that we might not be who they thought we are; they will blame us.
Why do we not tell up front? Perhaps because we think it's not important. After all, we cannot tell someone else absolutely everything that has happened in our lives; it would simply be impossible. So we tell what we think they need to know. And hope for the best.

Susan,
I'm going to agree there is something in that comment .

My wife feels exactly like that over the status I built up with my photography business and also the work I put into building a nice home for the family . As I've said before eventually it feels like a male straightjacket . Because I now choose to live my life as Teresa none of that has gone away , I still have the same capabilities . The other flaw in this thinking is women are incapable of doing the same things as men . I knew some very succesful female photographers and I also knew women just as capable as me at DIY jobs .

I may put my foot in it but some women do like to play or accept the role of the " Weaker sex " .

DTelia, you are spot on! Great commentary.

Teresa, the question was "Why is it difficult for women in general to accept their partners as crossdressers ?". I think that you are missing the point when you go back to "gender dysphoria". I am not saying that gender dysphoria is not a reality, but you are not stepping into your SO's shoes to see the situation from their perspective, and the person that they originally met and loved, versus the one that is facing them now.

I perfectly understand why most women wouldn't and never expect them to. I don't pass and I'm sure most women would feel awkward being out with me as a women, I'm fine with it all.

This is a really good compendium of all the reasons- and my wife feels- uh- all of them. Being a CD or TG make for a classic Greek tragedy- with two people doing what makes sense and is right for them but it keeps being irreconcilable. Of course we are always going to want to be known and loved and accepted, and I have had to accept that in my marriage, and for many more of us, we won't be.

The gender performance construct is so thoroughly developed, and deeply engrained in people's identity and their idea of safety that this is not a surprise- it is just a mountain of a problem for people to get out of it if they are mired in it. It is like quicksand. My wife says she doesn't care about other men- but her husband- no- it is not allowed, not something she wants, not something she will accept, ever, etc. I am sure she is terrified of the uncertainty that lies beyond accepting me.

But, in practice, she is not going to divorce me. She punishes me with coldness, but she understands that she is being defensively abusive. She has her own huge problems with deteriorating health. She said she feels I am encroaching on her turf- with bread making, with sewing, with clothing- even while admitting that she had different tastes and style and there is no actual competition. She understands that I need to feel alive and to follow my heart. She wants me to do it in a way that doesn't bother her. At the same time, she can lay into me viciously, and then say, if I get mad, "Why are you punishing me for just sharing my feelings? " She can't sort out her own contradictions, so stretching to manage mine is beyond her.

So that is kind of a bandwidth problem. But as has been pointed out, in the end everyone is bargaining with life, in the person of our spouse, trying to have more of what we want. It is a risky business trying to find a solution. Some of us get lucky and wives come around, so we can justifiably hope, but some of us lose our wives emotionally or in reality.

I have found peace by realizing that I had to know who I am, first, and work through my own justification and I have seen to my satisfaction that I am a part of normal, I am harmless, I am valuable, and I am as good a person as any husband can be. That helped me take the pressure off my wife, so she can at least feel I am centered, not leaving her or pressuring her, just being myself. And I am watching for signs of how she is managing that information- whether she is still interpreting my dressing as a dangerous fire, or as corrosive rust, or just as annoying, a reminder that she can't control the world [she is the daughter of an alcoholic father].

I try to make sure each day I am more attentive and at ease, rather than stuffed up and resentful. Day to day experience is showing after all that we share a lot of joy together, so why not choose that!

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

I hadn't understood that sexual attraction isn't based on what we are, but on what others THINK we are. They fall in romantic love with who they think we are.
Anything that disturbs who they believe us to be, can destroy any love they have for us. Doesn't matter if it's we who actively deceived them, or if they who ignored all the signs that we might not be who they thought we are; they will blame us.
Why do we not tell up front? Perhaps because we think it's not important. After all, we cannot tell someone else absolutely everything that has happened in our lives; it would simply be impossible. So we tell what we think they need to know. And hope for the best.

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I think this is totally true but goes well beyond sexual attraction. Any aspect of our being and character can be idealized to the point where there is NO WAY we can live up to the expectations. In non-CD areas of my life, the disconnect between reality and ideal has caused almost irreparable harm.

A large portion of the population STILL considers Cross dressing associated with Homosexuality/Bisexuality---Even though that is a myth, many are still not educated in these matters, nor do they bother. This goes for Women as well as men. That accounts for their disproportionate "discomfort" with CD. Yes some Homosexuals Cross-dress, but most CDers are heterosexual, but many people who got their sexual info from their High School peers don't know that