What are your thoughts on how to look nice while presenting as male and wearing a skirt?
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What are your thoughts on how to look nice while presenting as male and wearing a skirt?
I think it is a difficult thing to do in the Western World. In many other places it is much more acceptable. I have found that even a kilt is often read as an attempt to break the rule of pants for men and whatever for women. I have a hiking kilt I sometimes wear on hikes or even walks in the city. It is like a magic potion that tends to make you invisible to many. On the trail it is more acceptable.
That said, I am sure there are ways you can make it work well. After all there is that fellow in Germany named Mark who gets along very nicely in corporate life with feminine from the waist down and masculine from the waist up. So, it can be done. Maybe it just takes a lot of courage. Personally, I think he looks great and very acceptable. But then I am biased.
The Mark that Gretchen referred to is our own Mark B who just recently was featured in many newspapers for his wearing skirts and heels.
My thoughts are, I wouldn't do it.
Wearing a skirt while otherwise presenting as a male will only call attention to yourself and not in a good way. If you have a family or job that you care about, it would be a bad idea.
While some may enjoy that and the attention it garners it's not something I wish to do.
My presentation is all female. I have no desire to be seen any other way even if I do wear women's t's and jeans and shoes now and then when not in full female mode.
My thoughts are please don't.
It's hard enough for transwomen to be accepted without guys running around in skirts for fun.
If you absolutely must wear a skirt in otherwise male mode, wear a Utilikilt.
I have been toying with this idea. I disagree with Kristi and Cheryl. I think others would be more inclined to accept a male presenting as such in a skirt as a quirky style or maybe an expression of some femininity. You might get a second look but might not get the stares or snickers if clocked as a cd when in full attire. I think if more of us were bold enough to do it it would start to be acceptable.
I would not do it in a professional environment depending on where you work. But out running errands pairing the skirt with a complimentary top might be just the balance you need to express both sides of yourself.
The shoes are where I hit a block. I guess it would depend on the type of skirt. I have a jean skirt that I wear often. If I were to go out with it I?d probably just wear my male sneakers or sandals. But if it was a dressier skirt I might want to wear more fem shoes.
All this to say. If the skirt seems to go with the rest of the outfit, I think it is an unconventional but acceptable fashion choice.
Wow! I never expected these responses!
If you want to wear a skirt as a man I can't think of a better example than Mark. I can't imagine any bad confrontations, at least any worse than many here presenting as a woman and don't pass.
Kelly, if you do it, do it with style.
I vote No. With all that?s going on, the community isn?t ready. One rarely sees a woman wearing a skirt or dress, let alone a guy.
I often did on vacation - not sure I would do it at work (though I am tempted). Mark B does it well - looks sharp and extrudes confidence.
The only problem with this approach is that it makes other people's ignorance the responsibility of the wearer. Assuming things about trans people based on seeing a guy in a skirt is a flaw of the observer, not the observed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
I couldn?t disagree more with the general consensus expressed below. It all comes down to confidence, just like Mark B. you either live the life you want and embrace it or not, it?s hard but try not to come from fear. I have personally experienced nothing but love and embrace when I wear a skirt out as a guy (yes even with stubble). Again my experience is that it all stems from confidence.
I feel the world is changing and embracing individuality and not conforming to stereotypes is totally acceptable. My kids and there friends don?t bat an eyelid if I?m in a skirt or dress either as a guy or in more feminine facial appearance.
My vote is do as you please and people like Roberta need to rethink their position on these issues. The more people embrace individuality and uniqueness the closer we get to a world of love and acceptance vs. categories, labels, stereotypes and people coming from fear for not conforming.
Hold your head high and wear what the hell you want. Just own it.
This might be the most exclusionary thing I have read on this forum. As a MIAD most of the time my CD issues are just as real as anyone else?s. We are not running around in skirts for fun but are trying to find ways to express this CD side of ourselves. Maybe I should just ignore this as some have advised me on another thread. But that would mean that the discrimination I feel goes unchallenged. I have more to say but I will stop here for discretions sake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
Whatever blows your hair back! As long as u can handle the flack and attention that dressing different creates? Go for it!:thumbsup:
Like everything else in life it goes to confidence, if you want to wear a skirt out and feel comfortable then do it.
Nancy Sue, You got that right. A skirt or dress, is a nearly extinct thing around most places now.
Kelly,
Personally it's a look I can't take to , I do try and see both sides of this debate but when I look in ther mirror if I'm doing a quick try on to decide what to wear for the day I need my makeup and wig on .
To a point I agree with Roberta if the guy just wants to do it for the fun of it because it's also undermining the work and stress some TGs have gone through to find an acceptance level , having your confidence knocked takes sometime to regain it .
I'm still undecided about Mark B , I find there are some unanswered questions and motives in his presentation .
I know I sound harsh and exclusionary but I am tired of being called a man in a dress or being asked to use the men's room because " You are just playing dressup and it makes the ladies nervous.".
I get it you all just want to have fun in a skirt or are trying to decieve people that you are a GG. I am not dressing because it makes me "hard" and I am not trying to fool anyone into thinking I am a GG. So yeah I have a hard time with people who are because while you can go home and put the dress away until next time. I am dressed all the time and your antics makes my life that much tougher than it should be.
In the spirit of understanding another point of view. Please explain how a man wearing a skirt undermines TG acceptance.
Go for it! I admire the fortitude of anyone brave enough to live how they want to. It's not my thing but then again so many other things aren't either. Live and let live. Certain people here have conniptions over anything that does not fit their narrow views.
Robertacd,
I understand that you are full time. Those who post in the MtF section are here because many are not full time. You are certainly entitled to your feelings, however, there is no need to complain about those who just crossdress, particularly in the MtF section. Everyone has their own reasons and their own lives to lead.
I also vote for whatever floats your boat. I also with others in that wearing what you want does not in the grand scheme of life matter one way or another. I don't always like a lot of what some people wear, while at the same time I celebrate their right to wear what they want, and that includes cis-women and everyone on the trans spectrum and under that big umbrella. Comics who dressed as a woman for a comedy sketch or a movie have actually helped us by getting the situation out in the public. The more that the general population understands that we exist, in all of our shapes and forms, the better all of us will be, now and most definitely into the future.
Before blaming others for not passing, one needs to look in the mirror to see if they may be right! I strive to blend, but there is just so much I can do with my 73 year old body, skin and face. I, as have many of those told not to dress "that way", have learned how to accept themselves and deal with life. Some here need to do the same. Live and let live!
Wow. Just wow. As a "life long" cross dresser, up until this year, I'd ventured out literally a couple of times. In the dark. Usually in the car. In the past month/6 weeks, I've finally summoned the will/nerve to go out. In broad daylight, "fully" cross dressed, out and about, shopping etc. Not just clothing stores, but the mall, grocery store etc. As yes, sometimes I've worn a skirt (probably about 50% of the time actually).Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
I'm not passable. I did wonder if "I was betraying the sisterhood" by not being passable? But you know what? I'm not.
OK, I'm "careful" where and when I go, and, so far, nothing has happened, and nothing has been said. I KNOW some people have looked. And, I'm amazed that I don't really care. (I've also had a Ma'am and a Miss directed at me...)
Kelly, you have one life to live. My advice to you, is the advice I gave to myself, just be careful out there. You could run into someone who doesn't approve of your clothing choices. Running into it here? I guess that's what the "Add to Ignore List" is for...
If your confidence level is up to it, be you, what ever that may be! I am 24/7 pre-op transwoman and until the confidence reached a certain level going out dressed was always a little uncertain! Now it is just me going out! Everyone has the right to live their life as they see fit! You only get one, so just do the best you that you can whatever that may be! Hugs Lana Mae
I was at a shopping centre recently and saw a young man wearing a skirt and presenting as a MIAD.
If wearing skirts or dresses, most male shoes wouldn't really look as good with them if presenting as a MIAD but there are plenty of more androgynous sorts of shoes that would work.
Some sort of bags would be necessary because of the general lack of pockets in ladies clothes
My legs are just very nice to look at; Therefore,my skirt or dress wearing will stay at home.
Rader
I tried to read this with an open mind, but all I can see is snarkiness. It's quite a leap to assume that the non acceptance you may experience and a person's choice to blend male and female attire to have a direct correlation. Life is rarely easy for the majority of ppl in my opinion. Something I learned a while ago is that the onlything you control in your life is yourself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
I don't know where you live, but there are areas where the mindset can't comprehend anything outside strict conservative views. Buck those norms and outspoken folk will let you know. Nothing will change their minds. Maybe that's your situation. Maybe not. Blaming others actions and behaviors they engage in to be happy isn't a solution.
I often wear my kilt.
I just bought two VS skirts to wear with my collection of high heels. They fall just below my calf muscles.
http://www.tracyvargagroup.com/how-t...-skirt-length/
My lap cat loves it when I wear a skirt or dress.
Marion
Depends on what you mean by looking "nice". All I can say is that many,many years ago before my total dressing and going out as a "female" I would wear skirts,maxi's and midi's mostly solid colors only,all other clothing from the masculine side of the gender spectrum. Of course there was no mistaking about my gender as I hadn't begun to "feminize" my body or mind in anyway, and my job required a masculine physique. I might add that I did require a handbag(purse, somewhat unisexed) so there was that. If you don't care what others think about you GO FOR IT. It did help in my adopting the attitude that allowed me to now live as a woman 24/7/365.
Hm. A couple things:Quote:
Originally Posted by Robertacd
-The thread is entitled "wearing skirts in male mode." That is by very definition the exact opposite of trying to deceive people into thinking one is a GG.
-How exactly, can ladies tell the difference between someone who is "just playing dressup" and someone who is not?
-You are sorely mistaken if you think that people mistreat you because of other people. They call you a man in a dress because YOU are wearing a dress. Because they're being disrespectful to YOU. Their behavior is not our fault. Their behavior is not something that WE are doing to you.
Honestly, I think this take is influenced by your biases. Literally no one else brought up "getting hard" or "trying to decieve" people, but I believe you did because but these things are part of your overall idea about what a CD is, and the disdain is palpable.
I say go for it! Life is about doing what makes ya happy. I think some guys can pull skirts off! If anyone is offended that?s on them.
I would love to wear a skirt, stocking and heals in Miad mode, with a Ben Sherman, every day That would be my dream.
I am just a guy who love's female attire, I don't claim to be anything else, but I know it would not be accepted as anything like standard male attire.
This is a shame really a person should be able to wear anything they want casual, formal and work, it all about being comfortable and happy with how you present.
I am lucky that over the years playing sport being told that for a bloke I have great legs and these, and once they are exposed below a shirt, in some nice stockings and shoes I must admit I am happy with the look.
I say wear your skirt with pride. I love skirts and dresses and I like seeing them worn by men or women as long as it's done tastefully. It is not necessary to be trans(anything) to wear female clothes.
All guys will "pull skirts off"---if its a GG wearing them...:-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Peach13
I think you are right Violet. The discussion has veered off of the original subject. Often happens. It is interesting but maybe it would be good to return to the original subject of a MAN wearing a skirt.
It's appropriateness is culturally related, but I don't think appropriateness is part of the subject either. It seems to be more of a question of just doing it. Is it cross-dressing related? Depends on the reason the person is doing it. Wearing a kilt is usually a very masculine thing but sometimes it can be a substitute for a skirt. Kilts are a special kind of skirt. Roman soldiers wore a kind of skirt and it was often kind of a mini-skirt length. Not everything that involves clothes involves gender expression. It can be just a preference. But if you want it to be a gender expression then more power to you. Wear the skirt with pride and I think Mark B looks great even if some are shocked or offended. It is confusing, but not to Mark B or apparently Mark B's colleagues at the engineering firm in Germany where Mark B is employed. (Note: see how pronouns become difficult when there is gender uncertainty? Is a Scotsman in full military dress - kilt, shoes, socks, sporan, hat, etc - saying he is a girl? Certainly not, but in a Argentina (for example) maybe so. But even there one can't be sure. Point is don't assume or read things into it that may not be there.)
If anyone can dress outside the norm it is a talented engineer. There is an enormous amount of pressure to be creative and few can "deliver the goods" consistently.
Yet they get paid far less than what managers make, even though they may be more valuable to the company. And is is easy to identify who is contributing.
And the return on investment often has a short timeline, unlike that of scientists, who's work may take decades to be proven useful.
Marion
Sorry folks, I used to not care until a recent thread in the TG section where someone posted about their but they make sure all the ladies in their swim class know that they are "just a guy out having fun in woman's clothing". You know, nothing to fear.:doh:
As I said before, it's exactly stuff like that that TERFs and other transphobes are protesting against.
It's my turn to disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by SophyV
You feel it may make it more acceptable so let me relate something.
My wife and I heard that a local "finishing school" was doing an outing one Saturday at our nearby Dress Barn.
We we going to be in that area shopping and were curious about the "ladies" that would be part of the outing and we decided to go there around the same time. Yes, I was dressed. I was casual in jeans and a cute blouse, women's shoes, full makeup and hair. As we entered the store we didn't see much activity so we started looking through the racks. Then I noticed women talking to a few of the sales associates and we knew that they were discussing something under their breath with little finger points towards the dressing rooms. We kept shopping and I seemed to go unnoticed, especially when a few of the "ladies" came out of the dressing room. One was your MIAD, obviously not trying to disguise the fact he was male. Another was an older person, with her hair in pigtails and wearing a pink Tutu and pink tights with light makeup and an obvious 5 O'clock shadow. There were about 8 in all and only a few were fully dressed.
The women now were giggling, acting like school girls and we could over hear the comments and they were not the nicest.
Yes, these people had the right to dress as they see fit. They had the right to be there shopping and present themselves in the way they did. Kudos to them for having the bravery to do so.
Unfortunately the response was less than encouraging and certainly was not one that would help promote our cause to be accepted by the populace. We may think that all manner of dress will aid in acceptance but personally I don't believe it does.
As much as I would be slightly cautious with attire such as high pointy heels or shiny pantyhose because they may send sexual cues (yes, even with Mark B., and he mentioned a slight incident about high heels), a knee-length (hide the parts :)) or longer skirt, stubble or not stubble, really. If some people can be outraged today I like to think that we will laugh about it in a couple of decades (and hopefully sooner).
Roberta, sorry, I sympathize with you but strongly disagree with your stance. When you do something you like there is always a person to be offended by it for a reason or another. We can't oblige everyone. As long as we do no harm to anyone, we can do what we fancy, and that includes wearing a skirt even if just for fun. Our freedom is the guarantee that you have yours too.
Men wearing skirts are no different than women wearing pants. The reasons why men stopped wearing skirts were mostly war related in the 1700's. After that the wall went up where men wear pants, women wear skirts/dresses. Men should be free to wear skirts as men.
If I read posts right, many seem to believe men can only wear skirts if the are transgender or a crossdresser. Is that correct?
Cheryl I defer to your personal experience. I have been out full femme as a MIAD and have had the opposite experience. It might be a location thing or some other variable. Without a disciplined scientific study it is all anecdotal anyway.
So the uptake for the OP is try to read your environment to gauge your possible acceptance level and decide if you are comfortable with that.
I wear a skirt or dress all the time and otherwise male mode (no makeup, no fake boobs, leg hair, varying degrees of facial hair though hidden now behind a mask, etc). This does not set back the transgender movement, it moves it forward. The transgender umbrella includes non-binary and gender fluid. Forcing the binary just further shames non-binary to not be true to themselves. Wear what you like and want.
A jean skirt is a basic staple for me (pair it with a t-shirt or hawaiian shirt). Particularly if trying to keep some male mode, a skirt with pockets will avoid having a purse. Even before coming full circle back to wearing skirts I wore flip flops 2/3 of the year, and now find they work well with skirts while not being a feminine shoe. Sneakers go with some skirts (such as a jean skirt). I also have some flat black booties that are women's but not very feminine but work well for winter weather.
Even yeserday I was wearing a basic flat chested dress. I had to do yardwork so I put on socks and sneakers that matched and did multiple trips to the brush pile. I had to go to home depot for mouse traps and went like that, and got compliments from 2 women cashiers of "nice dress". I don't think I ever got a compliment on my outfit in male mode besides liking what my t-shirt said, but often receive compliments on a skirt or dress despite otherwise being male mode.
The question of dressing safely hasn't been mentioned , I feel fairly safe in the UK as Teresa but some sad and dreadful stories are told from US members . My thoughts are which group have been singled out and attacked more , is it the ones that integrate or the ones that choose to dress in mixed mode ?
From my own experiences I attracted far more attention when buying and trying on clothes and shoes as a guy , it became so uncomfortable I stopped doing it . I now struggle to understand why people would want to put themselves through that .
Hi all
Just to share my experience.
Before lockdown 1.0 I plucked up the courage to leave my flat without a single piece of male clothing. (Female shirt and woollen jumper. Tights and denim shorts). I had zero make up and made no attempt to hide my gender but I thought what the hell, I?m not exposing myself, I?m not causing harm to anyone so I drove out of my city and went for a walk in the countryside. A few people passed me and just nodded or said hi in normal hiking fashion.
It felt amazing to be out and about dressing as I wanted to. The day after, on a bit of a high, I went out early for a run in leggings then got back and changed into a dress and tights, again without make up etc, and ventured outside to take the bins out and for a little walk. I got stared at a few times, certainly judged and it made me feel really nervous. I haven?t been out dressed since.
It?s weird how certain dress rules are fixed for separating the genders. I am very comfortable being male and while I can express a feminine side with painted nails and hair removal, I just enjoy the way feminine clothes feel and fit me. I wish fashion wasn?t so attached to gender identity so strongly.
Even I have issues with that. That is why I said to the OP, if you do it, do it well. Take a cue from Mark and have some style and don't just toss on any old thing so you look silly or look like someone that bought their clothing from the dumpster behind the second hand store.Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheryl T
Why not? The more we do it the more acceptable and "normal" it will become.
I wore some women's style utility pants to the doctor yesterday because I knew I'd be all day... In the car, in the office, for testing, back in the car... and I wanted to be comfortable. The pants are incredibly comfortable. I mentioned to my wife that I have some other women's pants that feel even better but there is no questioning the cut. I said, "won't it be wonderful when we can wear whatever we want!" I'm pushing my envelope for me. Thank you all for pushing the boundaries for you! Some days I'm just a cross dresser other days I'm transgender... I haven't figured it out but I know what I like to wear and sometimes its a maxi dress, some days yoga pants, some days its just none of your dang business. I try to look presentable in what I'm wearing in public but when it comes down to it, if you're minding your business then you won't be minding mine. ;)
This is what we are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pumped
- L.
MIAD Sharing Thread ( Gallery ).
hello Kelly,
my Scottish ancestors have been doing it for centuries!
stay healthy,
luv J