To you "What do you do to look passing? What spoils that passing?
For me in my mind's eye I rarely look passing.
And I know it, as a fact, when I speak. How about you.
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To you "What do you do to look passing? What spoils that passing?
For me in my mind's eye I rarely look passing.
And I know it, as a fact, when I speak. How about you.
What I do to try to look passable is try to look like any other woman out and about that specific day.... Nothing really spoils it for me since I assume that everyone already knows I'm not a woman.... and I don't really care what they think...
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I just try to enjoy who I am. I love going out for the day just being a lady.Attachment 320111Attachment 320112
This is just my 2 cents... although it is nice to have high aspirations, I think most of us might be a tad unrealistic on our expectations of what we should look like when we go out. Seriously, go somewhere in drab and just sit and really look at the GGs walking by. They are NOT all Doris Day! They, like us, come in ALL shapes and sizes.... yet that does not keep them in the house does it? I say, get real, make yourself as pretty as you can and go out there and rock that stuff.
Again, just my 2 cents..... Hugs, MaryAnn.
I assume they know it's a guy in a dress but they don't know it's ME in the dress--and I want to make sure it's a pretty dress.
I've been out going on 250 times in the last 4+ years and I've never had an issue, and have gotten compliments and made friends.
You'll KNOW when you've passed. It's happened to me a few times out at vanilla venues on Halloween. People treat u completely differently when they have no doubt you're female!:straightface:
The first time it happened was many years ago. But, I'll never forget the astounded looks on people's faces when they heard my voice and realized I wasn't a woman!:eek:
Here's a photo of me. I appeared to be a woman in a mask like others there.:daydreaming:
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I’m with doc, though I don’t know all the girls here are astute or observant enough to catch all the subtle signs.
Passing to me is being able to go out and walk, shop, take a bus ride without being rumbled. It's not so hard if you are observant, take it one step at a time, dress to fit in. The first outings were the hardest.
For me, the true definition of passing is having someone talking to you and being 100% convinced you're a female. Hence very very few pass. I'll also accept that there will be some who in the same situation leave the onlooker with just a tiny amount of doubt, but it has to be tiny and it's most likely to be the voice that causes that.
Now I know i don't come anywhere close to the above. However experience has taught me that it's relatively easy for me to hide in a crowd and for the majority of people I pass while out and about to not give me a second glance.
The signals I send out, dress, shape, hair, accessories (bag, scarf etc) say female. Closer inspection and I'll be read, the voice is always a giveaway. That said displaying confidence helps enormously and treating people with kindness and consideration, being polite and engaging, in a way, negates the negatives.
So if I can blend well enough to pass most people by unnoticed then I'm more than happy with that.
If you relax and stand up straight shoulders back and walk like a lady and look like you don't have a care in the world you will have a greater chance to passing. There are a lot of ladies out there that have male features, padded hips is the big ticket.
I have been out in public numerous times. I think that self confidence plays a huge role. I'm lucky since I have a slight build; 5ft 6 135-40 ads, so I don't have to worry too much regarding the physical aspect. I do find the older I get, soon to be 67, the more male and female features become a bit more similar. Having said all that I always try to make a conscious effort to effect female mannerisms.
Leslie,
When this question first came up some years ago I asked the counter question , " Pass as what ? " Do we really have too many male traits to be totally accepted as female ?
Then I turn the question round and consider it from a female perspective , women come in all shapes and sizes , some are very feminine and some come close to being considered a man . Whatever they look like they have to live with it , so what makes us so different ? In the mix of looks we will fit in . If we think we are going to pass as catwalk models then we are in for a big disappointment , wearing a short skirt and very high heels aren't normally the right credentials .
I feel we need to drop the word " Passing " and consider alternatives but it really does depend where you wish to go and who you wish to be seen by . My alternatives are " integrating " some might use " blending " , I'm choosing those words because I'm full time , I go out everyday and live my life as Teresa . Others may just want the opportuntiy to look good enough to enjoy a night out , close scrutiny and voice may give the game away but for those few hours does it really matter ?
In my personal situation the biggest mistake I was making was dropping the " wife " label in the conversation , I've had more odd looks over that than my voice or any other male traits , I've been underestimating how much I've been read as female rather than male . Perhaps the biggest hurdle is stop thinking there's man underneath , this doesn't mean going OTT with trying to be female but possibly tone down how a male would do certain actions or the type of reply you would give .
The more basic ones to consider are stop looking over your shoulder for a reaction , I found if you don't look for one you will not normally get one . If people do give you a second glance it may not be because you've been read , they may just like what you're wearing .
The bottom line is the more you do it the easier it gets , many of the fears and worries usually fade away .
I avoid using the term. Even if the rare event that I feel some stranger may not have read me, I realize that is a momentary illusion, like a mirage.
It is a rare male that can pass as a female. Some are very, very good at being passable, but there will always be something that people who look closely will detect that indicate this person just "MIGHT" be trans. For most of us it is pretty hopeless to be passable. But it is fairly easy to be PRESENTABLE as a woman. Just look at some of the photos posted here and you will see not many would pass, but an awful lot are quite female-like and feminine looking. In a casual environment it is unlikely anybody would notice that "that woman looks a little masculine." Some women do and we can fit into at least that category with some care and practice.
First, we must define "passing".
Walking down the street or through the mall as a woman, you have a much better chance of passing than sitting in a restaurant for a half hour and giving people chance to study you. Or going to a club or bar and talking to people.
The key is, dress for the occasion. Do not wear heels and a ball gown to the grocery store. Wear what your wife or girlfriend would wear. And dress your age.
I can sometimes pass in a headshot. I will *never* pass in the streets, or across a room.
I'm 6ft 5, 220lbs, have massive hands and feet, a deep voice, and have masculine body language for 90% of my movement.
Like Charlotte, my height will make it very hard to not stand out and be questioned. I am 6'2" without heels. I can present as very feminine looking, and if sitting or driving or at a distance, might be mistaken, but up close and having to speak, I would ruin the illusion. If you know of a girl's basketball team I can hang out with, then maybe I might be considered their female coach.
Hugs, Ellen
Passing is the confused looks you get when you try to pick up your order because your name doesn't match the perceived gender.
Marion
I used to dream of passing.
Then I realized that it's not all about passing but for me it's about acceptance. I present myself in the best light possible. I take care of myself, I dress in manner that is appropriate for wherever I'm going, I carry myself with dignity, poise and confidence. I fully realize that few of us can truly "pass". Only a small percentage of us have the features, be it height, weight, or facial that the masses would see as feminine and be fully accepted as such. The world has too much variation and if we look about and are honest we can see it's not about passing. Take a look at women next time you're out. Do they all look "like women"? No, they don't. There are many who have strong features that could be interpreted as masculine, yet they are women. And there are many men, not TS, TG or CD that have very feminine features and could easily be accepted as women.
I simply want to be accepted for the person I am.
I'm taller than the average woman, I'm heavier than the average woman, but I can still be the average woman by how I present myself.
Passing to me is when I got my second ear piercings and the lady said I need your license. I gave it to her and her eyes opened wide and said I never knew! Or when I stand in line to use the ladies room and the lady behind or in front of me starts chatting. Or cashing a check at the bank and when I insert my card at the teller window she says I need your card, not his. I dress to blend and feel confident. It helps a lot.
Like many others, I pass until within the event horizon of another person. Although I think I actually distract as I am always far more gilded than most. Women have such an extraordinary range of clothing options, it would be a colossal waste to not take advantage of it! Wear what you like, not what the unimaginative people do. Normal is another word for average.
One of my everyday happy high looks while recently on a retreat vacation with my BFF's. No makeup except for some almost worn off lipstick. Wonderful and one of many a "I don't care" moments. You only have to please yourself and enjoy it all.
Allie
"What spoils the passing?"
How about six foot and 200 lbs! I "googled" average height of women: 5 foot 4. Average height of same age man: 5 foot 9. That makes me eight inches taller than the average woman. In family pictures or with friends guess who is the tallest guy in the picture unless my six foot four son is in it? Moi!
"What do I do to look passing?"
I am primarily an in-home dresser as that is my comfort zone. I do venture out for an evening stroll and a stroll in a quiet residential neighborhood. I'll wear flats instead of a high heel; a pair of wedges with sole deadening material to avoid head turning. I always wear a dress. I do not wear women's pants. Some say that it itself will attract attention. Perhaps. However, in the neighborhood I take my strolls there are two 24 hour grocery stores. I'll carry a tote as if I am on the way home from the grocery store after work. None of that going to a closed park and chancing running into unsavory creeps or thugs. I prefer a gently falling rain so I can open an umbrella which to some extent does obscure my height and definitely my masculine face. I learned a long time ago by taking some pictures that the minds eye seems exactly what the mind wants to see. Take that picture and it tells the truth. The picture is more apt to show you what others see.
I've gotten over the unrealistic assumption that all women are number ten raving beauties. I'd settle for the average womanly look, but at six foot and 2oo lbs it ain't happening.
Good for you Angela. Glam is more fun!Quote:
Originally Posted by AngelaYVR
As others have said, there are "levels" of passing. Can we pass at a modest distance, just walking down the street, or browsing through a grocery store? Some can, and I dare say I have, given enough makeup. I'm luckier than some. I'm not bulky like some men, and I'm 5 feet 11, which is tall for a woman, but not greatly so. I once worked with a woman who was 6 feet 2--and very attractive too. A fair number of women are as tall as I am if they're wearing high heels. At a distance, people are not comparing heights that precisely anyway. That's what I'd call "Passing, Stage One."
But what if we go to the checkout line, and stand there for some time with people close by studying us?--in pre-Covid days anyway, before "social distancing." I'm not so sure about that.
Still, how hard do people look? I've looked hard myself at women at the checkout counter who seemed notably masculine. Look at the hands; are they big for a woman? That can be a giveaway. And at a detailed level, if it's visible, is the index finger longer than the ring finger, or vice versa? If it's the latter, hmm...! But I only know about that stuff in the first place because gender is a natural topic of interest to me as a crossdresser. Most people don't even know about that business of finger length, and as for the more obvious clue of hand size, they won't be looking to begin with! They take in the big things first. What do my hairstyle and face look like, superficially at least? Am I wearing a skirt and a pretty top, with an obvious bust? Then I must be a woman!
Another woman I worked with seemed very masculine in her size and build, including her hands and a very low-pitched voice. Partly due to high testosterone at some stage, I'm sure. Yet it didn't take much "study" to conclude without doubt that she was a genuine GG. (And attractive, a nice woman too, and good to work with. Unlike some, I have no prejudice against "big" women.)
When it comes to hands, mine are naturally large for a woman's, and yes, I do have that long ring finger--but who's looking? They're more likely looking at the large ring on my finger, thinking it's pretty! If my hands are larger, that's set off by the relative slenderness of my fingers. I don't have "stubby" fingers like some men, what I call "mechanic's hands"--strong and competent like my neighbor's, but unmistakably masculine. My mother always said I had "piano fingers." I guess I have what's called a "gracile" build.
So maybe I'd pass visually at the checkout counter, as long as people don't look too closely, and detect things like "beard shadow" underneath my thick makeup designed to cover it. "Close quarters" is what I'd call "Passing, Stage Two."
But then we get to the next stage, which is not visual but auditory. What if I'm asked a question and I'm forced to open my mouth to answer it? "What is your date of birth for this bottle of wine we're selling you?" That's an annoying and intrusive policy recently introduced in my local Fry's grocery stores. So dumbass stupid when we obviously left our 21st birthday behind long ago, and why ask anyway when we're free to lie, since they're not checking IDs. So even if I pass Stage Two under most people's scrutiny, I'm not going to pass Stage Three, since my voice is bound to give me away. Even if I speak in an artificially high voice, it's going to sound false--which is why they call it "falsetto"! I'd fail at Stage Three.
Even if I could train my voice sufficiently to sound passably feminine--there are matters of feminine cadence to master as well as pitch--I can't imagine passing Helen Highwater's final test, which I'd call Stage Four: talking with someone close up and extensively and leaving them convinced that I'm a woman! There's just too much for them to see through. Helen is right that not many would pass it.
All I would say is, if anyone is going out in public, don't ignore the most basic giveaways. Frankie Valli and the Four Seasons may have sung "Walk Like a Man" nearly sixty years ago, but that is not the thing to do if you want to "pass" even at a distance when out in public! The right shoes may help you to walk more like a woman!
Stephanie, my friend is 6 feet and 220 pounds. She goes out in heels and makes friends everywhere. Do not hold back if you really want to go out more!
There r no "levels" of passing. A person either believes u r a female or doesn't!:battingeyelashes:
Very few of us will ever pass. Get over it!:thumbsup:
Which is why I dress for myself and not for some squint eyed toady staring me down at Dennys. Or, for that disapproving ignoramus chuckling loudly at me in Walmart! :doh:
I'm a CD. So, fortunately I don't need to dress to vanilla venues to get my T kicks! Or swoon, thinking I've passed because some SA or server called me "Maam"!:heehee:
The more I think about it, I really do not care about passing any more. The reason is that if I can look attractive, get compliments, have a great time, and even more importantly be treated like a lady, who cares if my size or voice etc gives me away, I still had a good outing and to me that is what it is all about. I do what I can with what I have to work with and let the chips fall wherever they land. So far it has been a fun ride and worth going out. Now if I could improve my dancing, that would be a real plus ; )
Sandi
The question of passing or otherwise often originates from the home environment , many say the first big hurdle is stepping out you own frontdoor but the problem that is often behind that is stepping out from a DADT situation .
The biggest hurdle many face is what the wife /partner thinks , my wife would throw so many obstacles in my face in an attempt to put a stop to it all , even now I live alone that little voice sometimes nags in my ear ,the little doubt creeps in .
We possibly don't really need to pass 100% even if we wanted to or could , the biggest change for me was having the freedom to be me , passing is very much connected with confidence and with that confidence we gain accpeptance . The phrase often used on the forum is " Own it " ! Believe in yourself and try and forget what aspects may or may not let you down . I openly converse with anyone , my belief is what they see sets the stage very quickly , what you sound like is often overlooked if you act normally . As I mentioned earlier talking about my children and grandchildren is fine but I've learnt to stop referring to " My wife " in those conversations because they have caused raised eyebrows . Am I considered a mother and grandmother , it's hard to say but it is a nice feeling to think they do .
I think Blending is very important,