No female identity

I don't have a female persona, I don't roleplay while dressed nor imagine I am a woman, I don't call myself Diane (this is so far just a forum pseudo), and feel weird when my wife or any other member of these forums (but especially my wife) refers to me as "she", "her", etc. I am just a male who enjoys the magical experience of presenting as a female and the troubling feeling of female attire (the crossing in crossdressing). Crossdressing isn't a way of revealing my true nature, quite the opposite, I want to venture as far as I can from my true nature and usual self when I do, and I love to be back to my male self when I stop, like a traveler can enjoy an exotic trip and still be glad to return home. I am also irritated by this common pseudo-wisdom that all crossdressers dream of transitioning like we all were made from the same mold, but of course that is just me being delusional (the advantage of that theory being that it is not refutable since if you're not there yet someone can always tell you that you aren't there - YET, and if you're not there at 80-something then it's because you missed the train and can't anymore).
I sometimes feel very much alone on this forum. Any other chap for whom this rings a bell?

I may be wrong but to me you seem to identify more as a crossdresser and cisgender rather than non-binary. Any way you personally identify is simply *you* and totally acceptable.

I feel that I fit seasonably well under the transgender/non-binary category. I must return to the male presentation under some circumstances, but I do so grudgingly and uncomfortably. I love when my friends and strangers refer to me as she/her. And I do tend to fall among that subset of individual who denied and repressed my desires and actually feared that if I allowed myself, I might succumb to an unstoppable momentum towards transition.

Diane, you are probably happier with your occasional visits to exotic lands than I am as a one who would immigrate if I could.

Georgia, you are right in your analysis and thanks for the words of encouragement. I am still not sure about the definition of TG and wanted to post this in a non public forum (a little long to explain why). - Mods - please feel free to move this to the main MTF section if it doesn't belong here.

Kim, I feel indeed that the dressing and the dysphoria is much more a heavy weight to bear for some fellow members than it is for me. And you are right, the dressing always made me more happy than it caused suffering (the one who suffers is my wife, actually). I experienced the fear of being outed (which is different from actual shame) but never guilt. I do experience guilt now that I revealed it to my wife and she started hurting because of it. Guilt of deception during all these years. Thanks for the kind words and for sharing. Always interesting to read you.

By the way I hope no one took my words about the pseudo-inevitable transitioning of crossdressers as a hostility against people transitioning or considering it. They are certainly not. I respect everyone, I just get annoyed when people are thrown into pre-made categories and denied their individuality. We are a broad spectrum. We may share some common feelings and life experience, and that is an opportunity to bind together. But that doesn't change the fact that each of us is unique and must follow her/his path, and not patterns imposed on us.

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Yes, DianeT. I consider MY CD sessions as "A vacation away from myself"---I too, do NOT identify as a female Nor would really like to be "stuck" as one (although that prospect has its own masochistic erotic element about it) It disturbs me how CDers are often suspected of being Homosexual or Transsexual by most of the general public-----Although most of that is out of general ignorance. I honestly think that MANY adults really do not know what Homosexuality really is, and stick to the "Kids definition" of a man who think's he's a woman"----And of course anybody who cross-dresses MUST be "Gay". -----I strictly define a Crossdresser as a person who wears the clothing of the opposite sex and is NOT Gay (or TS). I consider those Cross dressing males who IDENTIFY with women as being really, to a degree, as Transsexuals (if they really want to transition or not) And Homosexuals as People physically attracted to those of the same Biosex.----I do not mean to insult anybody with these definitions but we must have clear defined terms to discuss or even think about these conditions.---And all of us usually CROSSDRESS----let us not confuse WHAT we do (the verb) by our "definition" of who or what we are.-----I know some people do not like "Labeling", but personally, as a Scientist , "Things" HAVE to be named, or else we cannot even THINK about them, much less communicate on the same page with others,---the mind works with WORDS.---But we can all have our own definitions, so long as we are self consistent.

Diane, everyone's journey is different! If you are relatively happy where you are, you are fine! All of us are different, but the same! Although I am a transwoman, I totally support you and your differences from me! As I have said before, let your self be yourself! Best wishes on your journey where ever it takes you! Hugs Lana Mae

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Originally Posted by DianeT

I don't have a female persona, I don't roleplay while dressed nor imagine I am a woman, I don't call myself Diane (this is so far just a forum pseudo), and feel weird when my wife or any other member of these forums (but especially my wife) refers to me as "she", "her", etc.

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That was my experience from the start but I never wanted to come back to the male role. I didn't want to live as a male but wasn't ready yet to embrace trans womanhood. For me this feeling came, but with time.
Good luck on your journey and don't be afraid to explore and ask questions. Chart your own path.

I clearly identify as male in front of society. I think there is an element of dysphoria when you go the full nines in presenting as female, but while this seems for some members to be driven by discomfort or distress in male mode, it is more driven by curiosity of the other gender in my case. I don't want to identify, I just want to explore the other side. If there is an element of dysphoria in my case, it is more psychological. I am not pleased with some stereotypical traits males can exhibit, or be expected to exhibit, aggressiveness, selfishness, sententiousness, misogyny, etc. In a word, I identify as a male, no question, but I am not always proud of being one when looking in from the outside. I don't want to enter stereotypes about feminine qualities, demureness and all, but sometimes wish I would, could follow a path in between. The first times I went the full nines triggered a game of "what if"?. What if I had been born a girl? How would I look like, how would I behave? When dressing, and for a while after coming back to male mode, I am usually soothed, and cooler than my usual self. I wish I could stay that way. Then you get caught in the whirlwind of real life again.

-- EDIT -- Some responses removed after the move to a public thread.

Diane, I think that this post is in exactly the correct space. Even though you say you, yourself identify as male, to me you are essentially asking what is it that is the difference that makes some of us, those who gather here, different from the those, like you who dress to go to an exotic place.

Me, I'm happy to call myself trans. I think that in the world in general there is a misunderstanding of what trans actually means. For me, and I think that this is the more accepted use of the word trans, it doesn't mean that I was assigned male at birth and I now identify as female. What it actually means is that the gender that I identify as, is not male and is not the gender I was assigned at birth. We live in a binary society and so, the only way that I can openly display that I am not male is to identify more towards the female, though, in doing so, I am not identifying as female, I am identifying as not male. Hence the non-binary tag that I am happy to live by.

There are many reasons why people assigned male at birth will present in the world as female and there is a vast difference between the reasons that many on the male to female public board dress to those of us here. As you said in your OP for you, you go on a journey, you enjoy it while you are away and then you are happy to return to you, being you as you understand yourself to be, and as you identify to the world.

For me, it is not a journey, it's more fundamental than that. It's absolutely core to how I identify - it is the very essence of what makes me, me. I presnet as the way I do, I enjoy being miss-gendered, I enjoy passing as a woman out and about, because I can't live as a male, I don't identify that way (as a male), and I never did. When I was growing up I had to conform to the binary world, but that world has now passed and I am able to be me, being me.

As I said before, the reasons for us being here are varied and being one way or another doesn't make one right and the other wrong. Both are correct as they come from inside each and everyone of us. We're all on a journey, yours are short and you return each time, mine is longer and I'm still traveling, I don't know what the destination will be and I probably won't know when I've got there. What I do know is that at the moment, I'm in as good a place for me and I can be and it feels right.

I wish you every success and hope that you can sort through your feelings of guilt - you've nothing to be ashamed or guilty about.

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Great discussion
I moved the thread per your request DianeT

I hope you don’t feel alone Diane, Sher also said she could not relate to many here and that just makes you unique.
Being able to talk to others and support each other is important.
Everyone is different and everyone is included.

(That was shocking, Di. I went to post my response to Diane and meanwhile the thread got moved. No harm done; just a Twilight Zone Moment.)

Diane, I think you are fine. To me the rule in this behavior pattern is that there is no rule. I formerly wrestled with many of things you mention. Am I male or female; am I a man or a woman or a shape shifter; am I this or am I that? Then I discovered that conceptually all of this either/or thinking is a result of the habit humans have of, for example, calling cats cats and therefore they are cats. They are not cats; they are creatures with certain characteristics and that is all they are. Is a chair a chair if you stand on it to reach something high or, at that moment, does it become a stool or a ladder? In other words its reality shifts from one identity to another depending on how that particular structure is used - sit on it, stand on it, use it for an elevated storage structure, use it for a desk or table, etc. That structure has many linguistic identities besides chair which is only something you sit on. It doesn't actually change shape; only the concept changes depending on the use. Is a chair a chair if nobody is sitting on it or using it in some way?

In the concept of the gender binary, gender is very static and is often thought of as though it is the same thing as sex. With deep apologies to the intersex folks, there are only two sexes - egg producers and sperm producers. Been that way, in various forms, for the last 2 billion years; before then we were all the same - we replicated rather than reproduced. Like bacteria. There are no male or female bacteria, but bacteria still have unique characteristics and do exhibit individual differences, although those are really hard to see. I suspect they don't have any trouble telling each other apart by the efficiency of their talents in organic chemistry. Do they care? Probably not. It is just life.

To me, gender is an important social behavior that is not actually even necessary, except in social creatures that have different roles within that society it is good to conceptually differentiate them. We use sex but we could use a lot of other things. And those other things (differences in height, body shape, hip width, foot size, whatever) would work as well if they define a group within a functioning society where individuals tend to work together to survive and therefore have different roles. But we chose sex perhaps because humans are almost always horny and tend to engage in an awful lot more sex than most other creatures. We are pretty unique in that way. Problem is that is all statistical and pertains to the population as a whole. If the population has a very narrow range of variance then it is sensible to assume that most individuals are very similar - like blue petunias. But if the variance is very large then picking an individual that represents the whole is next to impossible - they are all different in so many different ways and along so many dimensions. Genetically, humans exhibit very little variance in physical characteristics when compared to many other animals. Our genome is really pretty small and so there isn't a lot of variation that can occur.

But our big difference lies in having unusually large heads that contain large and unbelievably complex brains that allow an amazing diversity in behavior that can change on a dime and head in a different direction. Our personal identities (how we recognize ourselves) varies all over the map - everybody is unique in spite of the limited possibilities present as a result of a small genome. Nothing is absolute except for the morphology and physiology and even those vary quite a bit. Beans have a different digestive effect in different people.

What does this come down to? In all these responses I think Lana Mae hit the nail best. Be yourself. You are a majority of one when it comes to your identity. You really can't be anything other than yourself and that also applies to everybody else. There is no right way to do this; you can only do your way. That may change and may change dramatically - or NOT. Be well, be happy, be yourself whoever you are. Period.

If there's anything one should not feel here, it is alone. Look about the various threads and you'll find more reasons for crossdressing than there are members - some of us change our minds or feel differently one day to another.
I enjoy crossdressing and feel I create a female persona or at least a persona other than my everyday self when I even think about it. She has a name and a personality. That others might feel nothing where I have have a construct doesn't bother me at all. That others might be more advanced or more intense in their sensation of their female self also does not trouble me.
I think in one way, crossdressing is a symptom, like sneezing, and may be evidence of a broad spectrum of causes or reasons or mental states.
Also, the benefits may vary.
What I feel here is kindness and acceptance and love and hope to return these as well.

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Originally Posted by DianeT

I don't have a female persona, I don't roleplay while dressed nor imagine I am a woman, I don't call myself Diane (this is so far just a forum pseudo), and feel weird when my wife or any other member of these forums (but especially my wife) refers to me as "she", "her", etc. I am just a male who enjoys the magical experience of presenting as a female I want to venture as far as I can from my true nature and usual self when I do, and I love to be back to my male self when I stop, like a traveler can enjoy an exotic trip and still be glad to return home.
I sometimes feel very much alone on this forum. Any other chap for whom this rings a bell?

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Diane, I think I understand what you are saying here, especially when you speak of the "magical experience". Although I do enjoy the persona I have created, role playing and fantasy when dressed, I find it it enhances the adventure you describe. I can and do return to reality, happy and satisfied, looking forward to the next opportunity I can do the same. I very much like your analogy of the traveler on an exotic (and perhaps erotic) trip. I hope that trip never gets old, for me it's WAY too much fun, and presents psychological benefits I could not experience otherwise. So, although we all are different in our approaches to CD (which is also great) you are not alone at all. As for me, I am happy to be part of this community with all the differences it presents.

There's an old joke: what's the difference between someone who is trans and someone who is a crossdresser? A few years. Regardless how true that is, I used to feel different as gen, now it's just me. The only real difference is how I'm dressed. I don't feel different one way vs the other. It may effect the way people interact with me and that is ok. I'm just me being me. I never felt any dysphoria or like there was a mistake. At some point I decided I liked being gen and I was ok if that was all the time. Existing in the middle space gets awkward sometimes and old. Maybe I'm just afraid of the last step for no particular reason. That's ok too, for now.

It's true! Way more CD's here than trans, Diane. It's just that many of the active posters here trans. But, there many 1000's of CD's who lurk and never post!:straightface:

I've been here for many years. And, I've seen countless CD's become trans. Then, eventually vanish from this site. Because they're too busy living as females to be bothered with us "wannabees" anymore!:heehee:

My first 2 years here I kept waiting for that "woman inside me" to show herself.:battingeyelashes:
Until I realized I don't have one!:eek:

U have no idea how many members relate to u, Diane. I certainly do!:hugs:

You are NOT along, Diane! Often reading this site it seems like the "norm" is to be on some level of transitioning, wishing to transition, multiple personalities (M and F), etc. But each time something like this is posted quite a few will come out and state that they are merely crossdressers, not women.
That's me. I'm a guy, like my name suggests, and I don't think I'm all THAT weird. I have no female name, my wife would never refer to me as a "she" or "her" (to the few that even know I like skirts and such). When many on here ask for help of advice I often see things like "any of you girls ever do this?" I always feel weird reading that, because even if I have done that I'm not a girl. I just love girly clothes.
To be fair, there are very few here who intentionally shame folks like us. There was one who was quite notorious at putting others down but I haven't seen her on here for quite a while. (I used to have fun with it by trying to guess how she was going to put the poster down. She's also the main reason I lurked for so long before becoming a member)

Diane,

Yes, interesting thread. Oddly enough when I go out fully dressed, I give people my real name. I do not try to change my voice. I make it pretty clear that I am a crossdresser, not someone who is transgender. I was so into dressing for a while, I was not sure. After thinking about it a lot, I realized there are far too many real hobbies and projects I like to work on as a male. So I definitely fall into the dressers only category; however, I do feel a bit different from the group as a whole. It does not seem too many are into the clubbing scene like I am. I have some friends here for sure, but I have a hard time relating to some things. Dressing does nothing for making me more calm for example. I believe everyone who say they experience it. It is just different for me so in that sense, some of us feel a bit out of place, but it?s all good. We get to share our feelings here, and someone will always relate to a particular thread.

Take care,

Sandi

Hi Diane

Your post has caused a great deal of thought and introspection. I have spent quite a lot of time trying to define myself and it seems that I don't seem to fit into any one box or definition. I identify with nonbinary, transgender but most particularly gender non-conforming.

I agree with what you said about not feeling comfortable behaving in the socially defined male manner. I am not a beer swilling, profanity spouting, loud, agressive, sport loving Dude.

I prefer quiet chat, female company and generally more female defined things.

Like yourself I don't have a defined female persona. I am not a 'woman trapped in a male body'.

My avater name is purely for convenience but seems to fit me better. I do feel much more comfortable wearing female attire and regret having to change back but I don't dislike my body or the fact that I was assigned male at birth.

Looking objectively I think there are more expressions of self than stars in the sky and I don't think anyone can ever share the same journey or gender identity but we all share curiousity about ourselves and eachother.

To paraphrase Heraclitus
No person ever steps in the same river twice, for it's not the same river and they're not the same person.

Take care

Martine x

Diane, i can relate to you a lot. I think i have crossdressed for a number of reasons. My father never wanted sons, but got three, and i was the last one born and not really wanted. I was bullied in schools everywhere i went. i am a HSP highly sensitive person. I was bullied and ridiculed byu my older brothers, too. I hated myself most of my life, and started experimenting dressing with my sister and mom's things at age 13. Stopped for many years out of guilt and shame. Did not buy dresses, wigs, and heels and all the extras until mid 50's. I have agonized for many years abut it, went out in public around 25 times, met 4 admirers, but did not have penetration sex, and recently took a 7 month break form dressing. I like my male side more than i used to, accepting it finally, and i agree, that the dressing up to the nines, has been a temporary escape from the loveless world of an old low income bachelor, who has not had a steady girlfriend in my life, nor wife. I think my brain and spirit are a bit both male and female, but i am a male and have to accept the good things of it now.

@Suranne I totally get not wanting to be identified as a male. The reason I am comfortable with the male tag is because I was raised as one, and looking in a mirror that is what I see, a male, sexually speaking. So it's got more to do with how I am built and how people will therefore categorize me, and not much to do with how I think and feel, which can be more of a blurry line, since I would be very much challenged to define for example what "thinking as a woman" could be (the books I chanced to read that tried to define it were just a collection of unimaginative cliches). Males and females have the same minds (I'll keep thinking this until proven wrong with convincing facts which failed to present so far), education (by our family, by society) is what dispatches us in the male or female social roles. My body has a sex, and a gender to some point since I accepted the social male role so far (but not all its stereotypes). My mind has not. So when I say I have no female identity it means that I don't try to emulate or fantasize about being a female as a social role. Did I wonder what it could be to be a woman, living a woman's life? Many times. But it had little to do with my crossdressing. And being identified as a male socially speaking, as long as I can be my own definition of it (which doesn't involve typical gentlemen's activities such as cars or sports talk, boys nights out etc.), is okay with me.

@Gretchen Good read. I hope you didn't have to rewrite it from scratch due to the thread move. Very much like the idea that destination is what makes a chair a chair, or something entirely different. That we call a male, a male, and then an individual feels pressure to look, walk and talk like one. This is absurd. Because apart from a few domains (biology and medicine), I don't see much use to categorizing people between women and men and the examples abound in everyday's life of situations where these distinctions make absolutely no useful difference. As a student I was a male babysitter (one in a million female ones) and never had any issues with the fact of taking on what was universally considered a female role (which you could tell from the fact that no matter which place I went, I routinely found out that 2 or 3 female sitters had declined before I was called). Like many fellows, identifying as male doesn't mean I can't take on traditional female roles (babysitting, taking care of babies, not watching sports on TV, asking bystanders for directions when driving...).

At one dinner meeting of our transgender group our guest speaker, a therapist who deals in gender issue, said "when you've met one transgender person you've met one transgender person".

I consider myself a crossdresser, because of the historical meaning, but being a CD is part of the transgender spectrum. I have a female name, Dee, because it makes life simpler when I am presenting female. I'm still the same person under the clothes. I refer to others who are presenting female as she because it's the right thing to do.

Everyone here has their own story and there is no one mold that we all come from. There is a big enough umbrella here to fit a lot of unique individuals.

I think Diane has touched on an interesting / tricky aspect of this site. It encompasses such a wide spectrum of individuals and their goals. I am a guy, have always been, always will be. I like who I am and what I can do. I actually regard dressing up not that dissimilar to wearing a disguise, or playing a part. I find it interesting and fun. Those who pursue it as a 24/7 lifestyle are no better or worse than I, only different, as are all those who fall in between the two extremes. I believe it would be bad for me, personally, to pursue such a degree, but it only holds for me. Allowing that I get to really dress once or twice a month for a few hours, it should be obvious that my male self is dominant/normal. I hope to clean up my face someday and really dress out -- to see what I can do. After that I may take a different direction (which would probably be along the lines of less dressing). If my status / goals are regarded as poor, nearing unacceptable, then I'm barking up the wrong tree.

I don't ever plan on looking like a female when I dress.

When I do crossdress, I enjoy the feeling of all the clothing that is involved. The only thing I enjoy that makes me look like a female is my breast forms. I enjoy the "feel" when they "bounce" when I am walking around the house. But I am almost as happy when I am dressed as a male. I do wear panties 24/7, but that is because I find them more comfortable than men's underwear. I do know I feel more relaxed when I am wearing women's clothing, I even sleep better while wearing a nightgown.

If I wasn't afraid of being ridiculed, I would wear women's clothing out in public. I do not own a wig and don't plan on it either and I also have very thin hair. Also I do not wear make-up, but each of my wives have put make-up on me, I just enjoyed the attention they gave me while applying it. I know that there are several that would tell me just do it, but the town I live in doesn't have much tolerance to outside the "norm". I've heard the conversations of co-workers and friends and I know how they feel towards crossdressers. Not once have I ever heard anything positive about crossdressing in the town I live in.

On colder days I will wear more women's clothing out in public, but that is because I can hide them under my jacket/coat.

I came to this site hoping to find others like me. I can dress openly in front of my wife and she never has anything bad to say (unless I am dressing too much). I don't want to transition into a woman. I have no desire to be with another man.

I believe that everyone should be able to wear what ever they want. I applaud those that go out fully as a woman. I feel sorry for those that have to hide it from their wife/girlfriend, since that has to be very stressful on them. For those in a DADT relationship I wish you could fully dress in front of their wife, but also realize that would probably put a strain on their marriage.

I've learned a lot from this sight and I look forward to coming here daily.

When I was a child, I would dress up as a cowboy, pirate, etc. During those playtimes I realized I was just a kid having fun playing pretend but I enjoyed the break from reality and immersed myself into those moments. I liked being a cowboy or a pirate.
Being much, much older I still recognize the fun of make believe. I'm a man and I identify as a man. However, it's still fun to play make believe for a few moments

Diane - I too have difficulty with being called her/she and I am still grappling with the idea. I sent a PM to someone outside this site and mentioned my issue with it, not sure if I should be calling someone a girl or woman and if they will take offense to it. I asked how that person would feel if I called them a girl and they were okay with it. So I got to thinking, I don't think anyone here has any ill intentions when using those terms so I just roll with it. I don't take it personally, I actually take it as a compliment. It means that I am doing the right things to present myself as a woman for when it is time for me to step out on the other side of that doorway and go out into the public.

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

I've been here for many years. And, I've seen countless CD's become trans. Then, eventually vanish from this site. Because they're too busy living as females to be bothered with us "wannabees" anymore!:heehee:

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As straight forward and honest as ever Doc, it's one reason why we love you. For me I relate to my self as Jane dressed or not, despite being in the closet, others call me by my male nomenclature. We are all simply who we are and over time hopefully we learn to except and just live our lives for that reason. My perception and understanding of who I really am took well over half a life time to realise. One minute I was definitely trans the next simply ( If you can call it that) a CD. Society and we our selves too often try to attach labels. Don't, unless there is a specific need for one, just try to be who you are and get on with life.

Diane, While I like being really referred as Jamie, she, her, if that's not for you that's fine. There is a whole spectrum of crossdressers and no one can define you, other than you.

Diane, I am with you. I do not identify as a female, the female persona Chantal is mainly used for social media and anonymity when meeting people I do not know. The friends and family that do know my male identity is welcomed to us my male name or he/him while I am crossdressed if they are comfortable in doing so, if not then they would use the female persona and her/she. I am good with strangers using he/him/sir (prefer it), just feel weird when they self correcting themselves and saying sorry for doing so.

DianeT What an interesting thoughtful post, i think it's great you are really thinking about this but as the years go by the point of seeking a definition of who i am in regards to wanting to present as femme or a woman started to stop because maybe i just fused it together. i dunno. but transgender in the traditional sense never felt ok all the time and as does being a crossdresser. i guess whilst i have euphoric presenting a woman in the world i have also felt equally at peace with myself in my male form or whatever, it's a part of my identity but it doesnt have it's own box it's not compartmentalised so much as it appears to be for some people. i never really cared much about pronouns either when dressed, solong as people are cool with me and how i am i dont mind. i also get the assumption that we all seek to be transwomen i remember when i was in my early 20's where i did feel some pressure to define myself as a trans person. I do however think it is a journey just some may get to their destination earlier than others and that depends how much space that person has to find themselves or hell even create themselves. i guess im just ok with being whatever i am and it seems like you are too. this is the important point everyone should ask themselves,if one is happy where they are at. i hope that made sense.lol

Diane, this is a wonderful topic, thank you for staying it.
I totally understand where you're coming from. I thoroughly enjoy wearing bras and panties. That's really all I need. This site, though, has made me consider a lot of "what ifs". There are a lot of things discussed here that I think I would like to try. But I also consider my wife's thoughts and feelings and as a result I'll probably never fo most of those things.
I'll continue what I'm doing because I enjoy it and I think I'm much calmer. And I'll dream about the rest.

Although I sometimes wish that I could be a female, the reality is, I am a male and always will be. I dress as a woman quite often and try to look and act like one as much as possible. Wy wife doesn't call me by a female name or refer to me as a "she" and nobody else knows about my little "hobby".

There are members here involved in all ranges of crossdressing and even beyond. Don't feel alone.

Somewhere along the roads of life I lost the concept of maleness and femaleness (if that's a word). It really pisses me off when I hear a young woman or girls thinking her options in life are limited. I have been chided over the years for not being some sort of domineering male. I find that funny because I've done some things I know for sure they would run away from. So what happens when I don my female garments? Mentally; Nothing. I am happy to be a male. If I was born a female I'd be happy too, although I would not have liked being been born in the 1940's as a female because of societal limitations thrown in the way of women of the 1950's to 1970's. I saw that crap heaped upon my wife of fifty years.

When I first started dabbling in my mother's clothes I felt disgusted. I heaped self loathing upon myself. I did not fit the mold of a manly man/boy. It took a lot of self examination to become comfortable with who I am. If I were to just wear a dress and otherwise look life a guy in a dress that would not sit well with me. I view it as insulting to women and specifically my wife. My wife asked "Why would a guy wear a bra when he has nothing to pack into it?" Whatever motivates me to do what I do? I figure I have to do it as best as I can. I never look like a slob in male mode. Why would I look like a slob in female mode?

I have always said a person should not box himself or herself in with describing oneself with a single word. Talk in complete sentences and paragraphs. If you're uncomfortable with yourself; change. If I am comfortable with myself; leave me the heck alone. In the past there were some "militant" types on the forum with whom I sometimes had contentious words. I am glad to see they melted away. I have opinions on many things and they are intended to be my opinions. If a person does not agree with them that is alright. It's just a matter of mutual respect.

Quick remark : when I said I feel weird being referred to as a she, it's not in a negative sense. It's weird, but it's a gentle and respectful thing to do on your part. Please keep doing it (my wife will, too), as I'll keep doing too with you (I did a lot of mistakes in PMs when I began as a member here as that part wasn't natural to me. I have gay friends but never had trans or TG ones so had to learn).

@Crobeson I understand the desire to create a persona. We are beings with imagination and curiosity. And it can make the experience more intense. After all it’s all about how you want to live the experience, and frankly the sky’s the limit :) And it’s nice that you feel kindness and acceptance here. That means that this forum is serving its purpose.

@Kris Burton I agree with the therapeutics of crossdressing. It’s impossible to explain to people who don’t dress, but it’s really making me happy a good while before I do it, then while I do it, then for a good while after.

@Genifer Teal You have obviously reached what I would call your point of low potential energy, where antagonist forces are in balance. I would like to find one for my wife and I, that would be less hurtful for her and still fulfilling for myself. Currently it is more a compromise, but one that is working so far.

@Linda K. Female pronouns and names feel weird to me because when I see my wife typing "Diane" or "she" in a post (that "she" person being virtual to her since she's never seen me dressed), I feel like she is writing about another person. But my wife and other members here using female pronouns are just being respectful and following the etiquette here. So, while it feels weird, I must say that it also feels nice to be treated nicely.

@Docrobbysherry As a matter of fact I read countless stories of the inevitable transitioning of CDers. It frightened my wife (like a good many others). I did a lot of research and introspection on the subject. The result is that two years after my coming out strictly nothing has changed in my desires and way to dress, so I just hold this as a non universal truth. It concerns some of us, and some others not. If there is no driving force, chances are there will be no move. For example, I would be much surprised if a trans friend on the forum declared to me that she never saw it coming.

@OrdinaryAverageGuy I very seldom felt judged here for being a CDer, the overall impression is of acceptance and support. It feels weird to to be among the "girls" :) Note that, as a non-American watching a lot of US series, I always find it strange too when a group of GGs is referred to (or refer to themselves) as "guys". Of course words end up having the meaning people use them for, so it's not THAT strange.

@Sandy Beech, I fall in the category for whom escapism, as some call it here, actually works and soothes me. But I share this feeling of loneliness you describe, for other reasons. Mind you, a little less since I started this thread. So you may want to start your own thread "Club, not numb" :) I hope you can find some friends who share your experience more closely.

@MartineCD I like the gender non-conforming concept. There's an element of freedom when I switch to female presentation. I once explained to my wife the process of dressing up, making up, putting on accessories, wig, heels, earrings, etc. Each of these steps breaks a taboo of my boy education. The preparation is a long sequence of getting rid of some chains one after another (if a GG is reading this : consider putting on heels, a girdle, a bra, as breaking chains, how is that for a paradox. But it actually is breaking a taboo. It is liberating. Of course it may also be exciting. But the element of freedom is very defining as far as I am concerned. As I put on one layer after another, I am symbolically peeling off social barriers from my psyche, one after the other, the more I dress and make myself up, the more I am bare as a being. I understand this as the reason why I totally feel myself when dressed, despite the theatrical stuff it involves. Actors sometimes tell similar things about acting in a costume. It is liberating and allows them to be more natural).

@Alice Torn Like you I started buying full attire in my early fifties. Many reasons, one being the thought that it was time to accept myself. I hope you can find a way to think of the dressing in a more positive way and enjoy it again, since you are doing absolutely nothing wrong. It is nice to see that you can enjoy your male self. I think it is very important to accept yourself before thinking about acceptance from others, and it may prove to not be the easiest thing to do.

@TheHidden Love the quote.

@Geena75 Your status and goals are just as fine and respectable as any other, keep barking that tree. I used to dress for so many years with a swimming suit, hose, water balloons and some makeup, very seldom some more conventional attire. I considered I looked like an idiot and hated to see myself in a mirror, but just loved going around the house, eating, lounging, like that. It was just funny and exhilarating. I felt like a total idiot, but an idiot having a good time, it was my thing, and I needed nobody's opinion about it. I matured my attire since, but I am still wandering in the house or lounging, looking at my hosed legs and heels like an idiot and I just love it (now my wife reading this, rolling her eyes).

@Happilymarriedguy Thanks for the kind post. The bouncy feeling, the touch from an arm, that was fantastic. It is to me the absolute non-masculine experience (no, our family jewels do not bounce like that!), so weird, so transgressive. But that was with water balloons. I bought silicon forms since, and they don't bounce. But they look good with the clothes, and that is more what I am aiming at now.
Like you say, hard to hear positive things about CDing. One of the reasons is few people really know it exists, at least the way many of us do it. We are a minority, walking under the radars.

@Cecily I totally relate to the make believe, and the theatrical aspect of it. That is the fun part. I find the dressing troubling, but there's a great element of fun too.

@Linda K. Absolutely. I don't take any offense being called a girl, referred to as she. Like I said it's weird to me, but that is my problem. People doing this are just being kind and respectful and I don't want them to change anything.

@Jane G Agreed, I don't care much about labels either.

@Jamie Thank you. Like I said, I don't mind being called that way. Don't change anything for me. It feels strange, but it is cool too.

I don't have a female identity either. In fact I don't navel gaze too much about my identity at all. All identities are probably delusional. It's much more interesting to know how others see me. Stevie is my birth name but I admit I'm not that little nor does anyone describe me as a sissy. For me, it's all just a dumb fetish that I neither asked for nor understood until late in life. Up until then I would periodically get OCD about whether I was gay or trans. But now I see it all as a coping mechanism for anxiety/ trauma surrounding my relationship to masculinity. Nothing more to it than that. A little weird but harmless.

Diane, I feel much the same way. No desire to transition, I just enjoy getting my fem on. I sometimes think it would be fun to go full out, dress up and venture through the streets, but I would in no way pass, my walk, the way I carry myself and my voice would scream man in a dress so I deal with reality and dress at home. Luckily I have a extremely understanding wife, we have our dress up nights, and I dress at home as much as I want.

This is a great topic for us to explore. Diane. I also have no female identity. I very much enjoy dressing like a woman at home alone occasionally, whether it is one or two articles of clothing or heads-to-toe femme, but I do not feel like a woman nor do I want to feel like a woman. I am pleased to have a beard and a hairy body, so I have no intention of presenting as a woman or transitioning. I do not understand why people have a hard time accepting that I have no inclinations towards femininity, I just want to wear the clothing in private whenever I want.

Diane - No I did not have to rewrite it. With long posts I always save the text to the clipboard and then paste it into a new empty "Reply to Thread" form. That eliminates the problem with being bounced from the logged in list while you were writing, having to log in again, and then sending the reply only to have it disappear. It is a good practice.

So many great posts in this thread. Crobeson96, I simply adore your reply. You have really caught the essence of the way Gretchen (me) feels about it.

@Princess Chantal You appear to be out to friends and relatives. Congratulations! The only close person who I am out to is my wife at this point. It will probably stay that way.

@Xemmax Thanks a lot for your post, your bit about non-compartmentalization got me thinking. This is just my personal theory, but I don't believe that transitioning is the next step for all crossdressers. I believe that if you transition as a CDer, then you probably weren't just a CDer to begin with, there was something more. However if we take a non-compartmentalization approach like you suggest, this gets interesting. Because I don't think there is such thing as a "chemically pure" CDer. As beings, we are tapestries woven out of a multitude of patterns. If I was closely examined, my chromatography would probably reveal a spike of CDing with traces of gender dysphoria. Maybe I am 1% transwoman and putting on the clothes is enough to reach my balance zone while for others it may take a lot more steering towards female identification. Maybe after all, and to contradict what I said earlier about transitioning not being for every CDer, maybe transitioning IS for every CDer, but with widely varying degrees. After all, how far should a transition go before it can be called a transition? Since there is neither "chemically pure" men and women and everyone I believe is a gender mix, putting these clothes and the rest on maybe just expressing myself on the feminine side of my personal gender gamut, and my own transitioning destination, as modest as it is, and for as short a duration as my dressing sessions last.
In other words, no female identity, but no male identity either. Just my identity.

@Kelli CD Are you out to your wife? If so, you may want to discuss your needs/wants with her, and her limits too. As CDers, we may not always be good judges of our wives' feelings.

@Krisi Thanks for the support, and for sharing.

No female identity for me. I just enjoy feeling sexy and feminine while dressed up. I?ll wear panties out and women?s jeans now and again. But blouses, skirts are a home thing. Just between my wife and I. I?m very happy where I?m at. Nightgowns at bedtime most nights. I?m very much a man in a dress. I?d consider exploring more with my wife but have no real intentions of taking it further.

Before I told my wife about my dressing I was confused, "why"? What's driving me to do this? Why can't I let it go? When I told my wife she decided not to pack her bags and run but decided to see where it was all going and observe. About a year later she couldn't handle seeing me beating myself up with guilt and always apologizing to her for being that way.
She sat me down and started telling what she found out about me, her first thing was that I love being a man. The dressing isn't something that I needed everyday, it came in phases, sometimes I wouldnt want to for months and then I wanted to all the time. She didn't understand the guilt, in her eyes I wasn't doing anything wrong, there are much worst things I could do and maybe stop trying to figure it out and just enjoy it when I get the opportunity.
That was all the therapy I needed and that was the day I finally found my peace and understanding. I believe that's what I see in you, you found your peace of where you want to be.

I am just a man that likes to wear panties and a bra everyday

@Stephanie47 I don't think that GIAD (guy in a dress, a.k.a. MIAD) is insulting to women, we're just not used to it (like the average population isn't to CDers). As an example my wife has no problem with it. She'd rather have one at home instead of a DianeT. Of course she'd prefer that I wore skirts made for men, not for women. But even skirts made for women, and me keeping my beard, that seems to be okay with her (at any rate a thousand times easier on her than forms wig heels di-de-da-doo-daa.)

@LilSissyStevie It sure is harmless (it harmed my couple because I hid it, not because I did it). I never found it weird however :) More like excentric. As a heterosexual man it seems like the obvious thing to try once in a while, I don't understand heterosexual men not doing it (but are they really NOT doing it?). This said, non-crossdressers of course have my full acceptance :)

@Pumped You could probably go out with other CDer friends if that's something you'd like to do but are hesitant to.

@CeCe Agree. I made this thread in part because I grew annoyed of the stances about the inevitability of the road to transition, and wanted to see if I was alone thinking differently. Now I know I am not, we know we are not :)

@GretchenM Thanks, that takes a weight off my chest knowing that you didn't spend an additional hour rewriting all this :)

@Cacique82 Nice to see that you found a balance. Thanks for sharing.

@Maria60 Thank you for the kind words. I'm glad that you found your peace too, and that you and your wife be in such harmony.

@Stephj That sums it up in a few words :) In my case it's a little more complicated. But not MUCH more complicated.

I agree just a crossdresser here. That has done it for as long as I can remember. I love the clothes and the escape that it gives me. I will be out doing what is consider manly stuff this afternoon. I write this now sitting in a dress and heels.

I have no project of transitioning. I only like to dress. What about my female identity...I've never try to think about it till now...

I feel like the term that describes me most accurately is "Gender fluid", and that's how I answer those few people who have questions. I make no attempt to pass as female, but I am most comfortable in a skirt and heels. I feel that the look I put together is the best possible version of me and the way I feel most confident.

That's me, and I know it's not an approach that most forum members agree with, or maybe they even disapprove of it. But the one thing most of us can agree on is that you must do what makes you happy and works for you and your partner.