Odd question

My wife is watching Dr. Pimple Popper and I'm reading a book. She asks me, "Jo what's is this drag queen thing? They seem to be a lot different from cross dressers like you. Are they just entertainers? This guy is not even trying to look good."

Ok how do I answer this? I say "I dress to look as close to what a woman looks like. That makes me happy. I think the point of drag is to exaggerate the concept of femininity to the point of satire. But I have no definitive answer."
She said, "I like the way you dress to look like a woman it's like you're showing me how much you love women!"

I sat there stunned. I think, she understands me! There was a drag queen on the show and that was the trigger for the question.

Drag Queens have often puzzled ME too. One Difference is nearly ALL Drag Queens are Homosexual while "Crossdressers", overwhelmingly are heterosexual. We appear to be "getting our "turn-ons" or "motivations" from different parts of our psyches.---which, of course WOULD result in a distinctive "Style" and look. --- I HAVE seen a (very) few drag queens who ARE heterosexual, perhaps they actually ARE motivated by the challenge and entertainment aspect. (and might be closet crossdressers on their time off)

My concept has always been the same as yours Jo - exaggeration of femininity to the point of satire, and at times entertainment, when they impersonate various movie stars or singers.

I think drag queens are offensive to women. Most are way over done. Far to much makeup. Hair way over done. Drag queens will wear stuff that a cross dresser wouldn't wear in the bedroom let alone out in public. And your right drag queens are predominantly gay men where cross dressers tend to be heterosexual men. Our outlook on women is completely different. I love women I love everything about women including their clothes.

I understand both concepts. I am Heterosexual. I have performed 3 times as a Drag Queen but did not go for the excessive wig and make up. Some DQ do not do that, they rely on their performance to entertain. I did get shot down once for actually singing my song instead of lip syncing.
I was doing Elli Mae Morris' - 40 Cups Of Coffee. I love her.

I've said this many times here that most of my life I was raised by my two drag queen first cousins..They have done pro drag since 1978..I love them dearly and they are not offensive to me at all... One has been Miss Gay Texas 3 times.
They are not trying to be women at all..they are first and foremost entertainers.Period. I personally think they are beautiful but I was raised by a whole gaggle of them..Iam grateful in many ways .. they made me bold,brave and very tough.

You shouldn't look down your noses at these guys . They are very confident ,brave and most (if not all) shows everywhere are also done to raise tons of money for children ,women , community healthcare , LGBT ,HIV/AIDS ,homeless, women's/children's shelters and all kinds of charity and fundraisers..its their passion...not whether or not they pass. Every week everywhere there is money being raised thanks to them.

You may not like them but their 'dressing' is very productive and helps thousands.

They have opened doors for an helped countless numbers of people

Right now one of them is holding a charity auction of their stage clothes and jewelry..they will go to other performers or their fans. Proceeds to help people in Ukraine...
I just went to his FB page and he posted this..

Unsolicited Drag Tip #1: Whilst performing, be appreciative of the tips you receive. That $1, $5, $20 bill is someone’s rent money, grocery money, gas money and they’re choosing to give it to you to appreciate your performance/drag. Snatching it out of their hand while u walk by them is not cute and further shows that you don’t perform with a passion but for the tip money.
I do one or more of the following: make eye contact, blow a kiss, mouth “thank you”, or take a few seconds out of the song to perform just for them.
#oldschooldragqueen

The "tips" are the money they raise.

Dutchess makes some really good points. Also, as someone who has been to drag shows in over two dozen cities around the country, I have seen and talked to a fair number of queens. I never asked any of them what their orientation is. Granted some advertised themselves as gay, but generalities can be error prone.

I will say that drag has made it a lot easier for people like us because of the popularity. So I am grateful for that. Interestingly, not all performers use over the top makeup, and some I have seen in performance would put most of us to shame with their beauty.

I just wish the girls would not scream so loudly at the shows : )

Sandi

Well first off, I have met quite a few other CDs and only two have them have been straight, the rest were bi.

As for drag queens, if your total experience with them comes from edited antics on television then you need to understand that the people who perform in drag are just a regular slice of humanity as are CDs. Some years ago I participated in a number of amateur drag shows (just my regular look, no exaggerated makeup) and got to know many of the queens. There were some absolutely wonderful people (and a few not so nice as you would find anywhere). And a few of them would classify themselves as trans to some extent and they would perform with a more regular look, no garish makeup.

It is all rather nebulous and I do not think there are any hard borders here.

I think of them this way:

Drag Queens r men who present as, "over the top", imaginary women.:eek:

Trans feel like they r women and r just trying to present as who they r.:battingeyelashes:

CD's r often men with female sides, moods. They present however they feel at the moment. Which can be all over the map!:devil:

Never forget that it was the drag queens who stood up at Compton's Cafeteria and the Stonewall Inn. It was their courage and commitment that helped spark The gay rights movement and the change in society's attitudes toward people like us that we enjoy today.

If it had been left to the closet crossdressers, where do you think we'd be today?

Dutchess, you made some great points and provided unique insight. It's quite interesting to me how many of us in this world tend to form narrow opinions about everything under the sun and are so quick to judge others.

The irony is that we often cast stones from the security of our homes while wearing pantyhose, dresses, high heels, etc. We're an odd, eclectic group who should probably be more open to diversity, considering our own personal predilections.

I don't pretend to understand the motivation involved in the drag queen community; however, they deserve everything that we all aspire for: tolerance, kindness, humor, acceptance, and peace. I'm pretty sure that they have a difficult time understanding why heterosexual men want to present themselves as women without any pretense of entertainment pageantry as inspiration.

Having said all of this, I hope everyone had a fantastic St Paddy's Day.

I think the origin of Drag, as others have said, has to do with satire and mockery. But it's not women or femininity they are mocking; It's the stereotype that all gays are hyper-feminine men who want to be women. That was the prevailing view when I was growing up. Drag was a kind of protest by mockery against that stereotype. It's not the view nowadays but Drag has taken on a life of it's own. Now it's Drag for Drag's sake. BTW, my wife LOVES Drag Queens and gays in general. Some of her favorite shows on TV are stuff like Queer Eye, Drag Race, Pose, Dancing Queen, and etc. I only watch true crime shows and murder mysteries. I think my style of dressing is closer to drag than the typical CD in the sense that, like DQs, my style is more abstract and I have no desire to pass. But our motivations are different otherwise. I'm only mocking my own anxieties with respect to sexuality and gender.

Thank you, Dutchess. I had various ideas about them, including exhibitionist, men who dislike women, men who love women and for some reason want to exaggerate, entertainers, a type of gay, etc. I was quite undecided and swamped with various speculations and no real data. Your explanation is very sensible and seems to be the explanation that is most realistic.

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Originally Posted by 1Ladyjade

I think drag queens are offensive to women. Most are way over done. Far to much makeup. Hair way over done. Drag queens will wear stuff that a cross dresser wouldn't wear in the bedroom let alone out in public.

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I have to disagree with this statement.
We have been to a number of Drag Shows and the audience always seemed to be predominantly female. Yes they ae always "over the top" but that's the whole point. They are not trying to be female they are doing Satire. If you watch the Ru Paul show "Queen of the Universe" you will find them to be quite talented.
We are always entertained and sometimes surprised by the talent we see at these shows.

Also, after some of the local shows the Queens do a "meet and greet" where the audience can come up on stage and meet them and have photos taken with them. It seems that at every show like this the women are the ones running to be first in line.

Personally, I do not find the concept of "drag" to be offensive. To me it is just entertainment. It's just not my cup of tea. What motivates a man to do "drag?" I don't know. What motivates any person to do anything? The people I personally know who have disdain for "drag" also do not like gays and lesbians, transgender men and women, and cross dressers. They dislike anyone who does not fall into the assigned roles of life, as they see it. Most women I know do not view DQ's as mocking women because the presentations are so over the top, it does not represent womanhood; so out of the norm. Those women, if there is mockery to spread around, view cross dressing men as an affront to their womanly image because the ordinary look is achievable; whether jeans and top to formal wear. I find the men who express an opinion are more repulsed by DQ's or CD-ers than women as they take it as a personal attack on their own manhood. These are my personal observations and not a statement about 100% of the populace.

I wish I had something meaningful to add to this subject. I really do not. I simply agree with the view that drag performers are exactly that - performers. From the times I have been present at drag events, their audience seemed to include a significant number of of women who seemed to appreciate their over the top presentations and performances. And the women that I interacted at these events seems also to appreciate my hopefully competent and sincere attempt to present as a woman?.not a performance artist.

Stephanie47. I tend to agree with you about how many people dislike DQs, CDs etc. I think that those types still carry their childhood version of what a "Gay" person is "A man who thinks he is or wants to be a woman", so in their confusion, they lump anybody with "unconventional sex/gender tendencies" TOGETHER as being the SAME thing----A dislike for one, say Homosexuals, translates to hostility for all.--- buying into the worst stereotypes while not knowing what ANY of them actually are.

Worried adults often tell (or told) pre-adolescent kids "inaccurate" definitions when a kid asks what "Gay People" are. As kids do not understand the concept of "sexual attraction". and the kid's peers tell each other. So there STILL is a portion of the adult population that has erroneous concepts of various groups. Fortunately, I avoided the confusion as I looked up the terms in BOOKS when I was young and did not depend on my peers or ignorant adults for my information. Not everybody has done that.

I have to agree with Dutchess. I have been to 3 drag shows with my wife plus some friends. I love the shows & the efforts put forth by the queens. All three shows were for some charity that they supported. Normally helping troubled kids/teens, maybe a little older. The people that have no place to go because they were put out on the street by their parents. I always tip every single queen plus I actually danced one time in Drag garb. It was me & another female on my birthday to raise money for the charity. It was a blast. All the queens have always said thank you as they took the tip.

I did not read all the replies but....

Drag queens are indeed most all gay .....and like to make a sort of a mockery of females by exaggerating everything.
CDs on the other hand want to present as real females.

BTW there used to be a rather large gay bar on the outskirts of my town and they used to have great drag shows on weekends
Anyway, i have been there a few times as female and I was quite welcomed there by all.
In fact, I sensed that they felt a kind of a kinship to CDs even if they really did not understand us.

MOD HAT ON

Seriously?

Making disparaging remarks about someones sexual Preferences or
dress always get me .
The cd community wanting acceptance for who they are- but say such things about others never ceases to amaze me.
If I have to edit anymore of the prejudice, unkind remarks this thread is done.
The OP is sharing how her wife opened up and asked questions and they had a conversation to understand the dressing better and the thread turns into put downs .
Address the OP and keep your comments about being gay, mockery of women blah blah blah out of it.

THE RULE
Ridiculing members/non-members, or the manner in which they express themselves. This includes any complaint about the way females, males, transgendered, or any other cross-section of the membership or non members dress or the way they express themselves (such as spelling and language skills, and any mention of religious beliefs, political preferences and affiliations, sexual preference, etc.)

I suspect you can be very happy your wife accepts and understands your cross dressing and regards it as an expression of your love of women. My take is all crossdressers are in drag when dressing. The difference is, as your wife observed, drag queens are entertainers. It really doesn't have to be any more complicated than that.

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I think drag queens are offensive to women.

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That statement in MY opinion it in its self, is so wrong, I am measuring my words as I type.
Back to the original post, you have a special friend, your wife, who you love and to your question on how I would have handle that conversation. Go buy some flowers and tell her she is priceless.

Joanne108,
I'll avoid the whole discussion on the subject of Drag Queens beyond saying that for me, "It's complicated - and confusing."

But I WILL say that you seem to have landed yourself a real keeper of a wife there. Be sure to keep treating her like the treasure she is.

Drag queens are entertainers and artists. The tradition goes back a LONG time. The outfits and makeup are not any more ?over the top? than what you might see on a couture runway. It?s about turning yourself into a living, breathing work of art. It?s no more offensive to women than a Picasso (REAL women don?t look like that!). It?s ok if you don?t ?get it?. If anything, some could say crossdressing is MORE offensive to women because queens don?t hide the fact that they are men, whereas crossdressers are trying to ?replace? women and ?invade? their spaces. Like I said, it?s an art and like any art, it?s not for everyone, but if don?t get it, please don?t disparage.

PS drag dates back to the early days of theatre when women weren?t allowed to perform, so men played all the roles.

I don?t understand the point you are trying to make ?

For the record drag is a performance art. It is meant to be over the top and outlandish. Then there are female impersonators. Often those are also drag performers but more in tune with whom they are impersonating. Don't knock drag queens or drag shows. Many times they are done to raise money for charities. I have begun preforming with a group here. It is the Emperial Royal Sovereign Court of the Desert. Yes we go out we put on a show we look and act rediculous. But we raise on average $1500 at a time. This money is going to be distributed between 4 organizations thay help the LBGTQIA community here. Becaise you don't understand something is not a reason to knock it. This group should know thay from experience. And I know the organization I am there because of can sure use the nearly 10 grand they will recieve begining of next year.

Hi everyone,

I am not an expert on Drag queens but for the last two years I have been over 30-40 drag shows in Sao Paulo. From singing challenges, to group presentations, to shows that honours iconic drags in the Brazilian history.

They are artists. As someone mentioned here, drags are as old as theatrical plays, when women weren?t allowed to perform. I believe that assumptions of their sexual orientation irrelevant and even offensive, specially in this forum, where we look to accept diversity.

I have seen many cis woman performing as drag queens and drag kings.

I leave here a some IG profiles, one of them of a theater company focused on drag if someone wishes to see some performances.

@ciacanastradeteatro
@alexiatwister
@gingermoondrag
@valentin_don

A very interesting discussion. I've often pondered the difference between drag queens and CD's like me. For what its worth, I've come to the conclusion that we are very different but sometimes just look similar.

When I dress, its because I love the clothes and want to look as female as I can. I enjoy the process and, even more, I enjoy just being dressed. Still I've fantasized what it might be like to go "over the top" as some of the DQ's do. It might be fun.

OTOH, Drag Queens are primarily entertainers. As such they are playing a part. Some may chose to be really out there. Others are just trying to be pageant queens. But either way, their act is similar. Mostly designed to shock you with ribald jokes/comments. The audience is in on it.

It seems to me that CD's might go out in public dressed as a woman, but DQ's typically do not. Once the show is over, the person reverts to male.

Drag as an artform is extremely diverse in its expression. There are hyper-realistic queens like Farah Moan and Plastique Tiara, and there are more abstract artists like Juno Birch and Trixie Mattel.

Femininity is the common thread but the range of expression is limitless.

Also it's worth bringing up that a lot of times exaggerated drag makeup is similar to that of Las Vegas showgirls, designed so that those way in the back can see your features.

Actually I think 'drag' goes much farther back into time, even earlier than the Egyptians. But you are right in that it has to do with theatrics.

Hi Joanne, I think that you Nailed it, >Orchid**0:daydreaming:0**

Hi My wife watches Rupauls drag race and is always amazed that the contestants which actually look like women are usually the first ones booted off. She doesn't like the over the top parody look nor the totally plain jane look with hardly any effort put in, she prefers me to dress sexily at all times but be passable.

Drag Queen: The way a gay man expresses his femininity, often within the context of entertainment or cultural events

Cross-dresser: Most often a male with a deep psychological need to express himself as a woman by dressing and presenting as one. Sometimes the need is so great they transition as women.

Transgender Women: A women who was assigned male at birth. Often transitioning physically and culturally

Joanne, I agree with your analysis.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Di

MOD HAT ON

Seriously?

Making disparaging remarks about someones sexual Preferences or
dress always get me .
The cd community wanting acceptance for who they are- but say such things about others never ceases to amaze me.
If I have to edit anymore of the prejudice, unkind remarks this thread is done.
The OP is sharing how her wife opened up and asked questions and they had a conversation to understand the dressing better and the thread turns into put downs .
Address the OP and keep your comments about being gay, mockery of women blah blah blah out of it.

THE RULE
Ridiculing members/non-members, or the manner in which they express themselves. This includes any complaint about the way females, males, transgendered, or any other cross-section of the membership or non members dress or the way they express themselves (such as spelling and language skills, and any mention of religious beliefs, political preferences and affiliations, sexual preference, etc.)

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Wow, I agree 100%. Are re really going to criticize the Drag Queens? Shouldn't we know better facing all the social pressure and misunderstanding we face? How would you feel if you read a post in a Drag Queen forum criticizing CDs? And comments about CDs being more hetero than drag queens? Come on!

That's a way of being part of the hate, not the love this world needs and deserves.

Sorry for my ranting, but I'm upset

Going to Drag Shows and taking photos of and for them is one of the things I like doing. They like my photos. frequently I make a few 8x10 prints of my photos and give them to them. At one location they were hung in a Rouge Galley of the performers in action.
They are some of my good friends.

The question itself is not so odd, as married couples are expected to talk about things, even though we live in an age in which all collected knowledge of humanity can fit in a device that can be carried in one's pocket or purse. I suppose your wife just wanted your personal take on Drag Queens.

What makes it odd is that asking a Transvestite about Drag Queens is a bit like asking a sheep farmer on how to raise cattle - they have similarities but are completely different animals.

Anyhoo, my take on DQs is that Where Crossdressers emulate, Drag Queens exaggerate; and while a Crossdressers' aim is to blend in, Drag Queens want to stand out, and while Drag Queens are almost always homosexual, Crossdressers are not.

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Originally Posted by Violetgray

Drag as an artform is extremely diverse in its expression. There are hyper-realistic queens like Farah Moan and Plastique Tiara, and there are more abstract artists like Juno Birch and Trixie Mattel.

Femininity is the common thread but the range of expression is limitless.

Also it's worth bringing up that a lot of times exaggerated drag makeup is similar to that of Las Vegas showgirls, designed so that those way in the back can see your features.

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I think these are great points.

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Originally Posted by Patience

Anyhoo, my take on DQs is that Where Crossdressers emulate, Drag Queens exaggerate;...

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Yet, ironically, most GG's/SO's think crossdressers are the ones who exaggerate since many dress in attire deemed wholly inappropriate by most women (i.e., "dressing to the nines" regardless of venue).

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Originally Posted by Patience

and while a Crossdressers' aim is to blend in, Drag Queens want to stand out,....

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Stand out? Perhaps. The major difference is that ALL drag queens are public. As far as "blending in", the vast majority of crossdressers will find it hard to "blend in" if they're never seen outside their own front door.