Do You feel that Crossdressing is considered Cheating on your relationship with your SO ?
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Do You feel that Crossdressing is considered Cheating on your relationship with your SO ?
I don?t. For me it?s expressing another side of myself that I can?t share with my SO at this time. She wouldn?t understand that I can have a side that very male and a side that is very female.
If you are keeping it a secret and doing it behind her back, then it is definitely being dishonest in your relationship but cheating, no
When it is a secret and you are hiding it there is definitely a level of dishonesty there. For your consideration: Crossdressing could be considered the second most intimate feminine relationship a guy could have. That could be considered as cheating.
Definitely not cheating but could very well be considered lying, the lie of omission.
Its an age old question asked on every CD site I have been on over the years.
My answer is no because there is no real other woman.
Just my opinion and if you feel differently thats fine.
I'll give you this: For the brief period of time I hid my CDing from my wife, it FELT like I was cheating. I didn't like that feeling at all. But now that I have come out and she is accepting, none of that feeling at all.
Very well said, Kris. Our own perceptions affect us the most deeply (perhaps we know which of our own buttons to push for maximum effect). While I was hiding Bre from my wife, I felt dishonest. Now that it is out in the open (at least at home), there is no more dishonesty, either real or perceived.
Crossdressing when your wife or SO doesn't know is NOT cheating (IMHO)! The reason they don't know (i.e., the CD hasn't come out to them) is fear of losing a relationship that was very good in all other respects, as well as fear of ridicule (or worse) from ignorant bigots. It's a tradeoff between coming out and risking all kinds of stress and distress, or hiding and feeling relatively safe and secure. I know it's the "lie of omission," but it's better for the relationship, until and unless there's some kind of opportunity to come out safely (like positive attitude of wife/SO toward friend or relative who has come out as CD). I strongly believe that our American society (and probably most other cultures) is cheating US by forcing us into hiding and shaming any of us who DARE to present ourselves in public dressed the way we feel most comfortable.
No! And my wife does not either. But she does think that not telling her about my crossdressing is lying. Even though she never asked! So what is worse, a cheater or a liar or are they comparable?
Thinking it?s neither cheating nor lying?.it?s a personal disclosure if all one does is dress, make up and have feelings of satisfaction. If on the other hand, one dresses and hits the road to pursue a sexual or romantic relationship, then it?s both. Having said that, if the relationship is purely casual in person or on a site such as this, then thinking that would be like and the same as having a male friend when in male mode. Also think that there may not be a right or wrong answer.
I somewhat agree with the comments that refer to not saying in fear of destroying a relationship that may be OK in other aspects. Somewhat a personal issue that may have variable and multiple complications.
Jess?.
When my wife discovered Danielle she had no thoughts of it being cheating but was very upset at the deception and hiding the truth about my crossdressing. She was more hurt about that than the crossdressing itself. On the other hand I also understand those of us who keep it a secret because they know their wife would not be accepting at all and the marriage would end in divorce.
I guess I've just been really lucky. After a period of a few months after coming out to my wife, she had processed everything I told her, read articles (and this forum) to learn about crossdressing, and realized that she didn't have to worry about me being gay or wanting to transition. Rather than feeling that she was lied to, she felt sorry for me having to hide this part of me for so many years - all my life; she's the only one who knows. So while she doesn't actively participate in my dressing (and Larissa's clothes are, in general, more feminine than hers), she's helped me a lot by taking pictures, buying clothes and makeup for me, shopping with me, and most of all just understanding how difficult it was for me before, and letting me know it's ok, and I'm ok, now and forever with her. My first wife would never have understood or condoned any of this "nonsense" (as she might have called it), so I really feel for my fellow CDers who have to live in situations like that. I hope this forum, and the many events and activities out there for us, have and will continue to help.
I'm out to my wife and she is accepting and encouraging. However, if I had never told her, the question would be does she think it's cheating?
No, I feel it has enhanced it in so many ways , but every case is different. My wife is accepting
I told my wife as soon as I realized the relationship was serious because I didn't want to live a life of lying and repression. So I suppose in that sense I viewed not telling as lying. But cheating? To me that seems like a term of escalation. It's like something you'd spit out in an argument to throw fuel onto the fire. Something you'd say out of spite.
If a married man, or woman, occasionally masturbates; is that cheating? Is it cheating if, while you are doing it you are thinking about something other than the marriage partner?
If you are leading a secret social life, out drinking and partying and being approached by men, that muddies the waters. That starts to approach cheating. If you are just dressing up in the house when nobody else is at home you are actually exercising a kind of self restraint; indulging a strong drive in the safest available way. A sort of safety pressure valve.
The tone of your thread title makes it seem like this question is really bothering you. I hope you can get some reassurance here. These are tough and frightening times. We need to be gentle on ourselves. You are not invading another country or cheating on your taxes. In the end it is justifiable self exploration and cute clothes.
PM me if you want to discuss this more.
Not telling about your "hobby" could be considered lying by omission. If you withhold yourself from your spouse because of your dressing, it could be considered cheating the same as if you withheld yourself because of an affair with another woman. Afterall, you are not giving your spouse all of you, especially if your spouse seeks it or needs your attention and love in whatever form.
Absolutely NOT unless you are going out and seeking attention that would be considered cheating
I felt it was when I was still hiding from her.
I would find reasons to stay home if she wanted to go shopping and such to have a few minutes to dress. The guilt I felt about not sharing that time with her is what eventually drove me to come out to her fully. Now that she is completely aware, understanding and accepting I no longer feel that way. We share it all now, unlike before and I feel it's brought us so much closer.
Maybe the question should also be posted in the "Ask the GG's A Question." To me, cheating implies some sort of violation of a rule. Several years ago a GG on this site posted not telling a woman about cross dressing is "lying by omission." The man has not given the woman the opportunity to choose whether or not to be in a relationship with a cross dresser. That, in itself, is a valid point.
A question I always have is "What is wrong with being a cross dressing man?" Why is divorce the immediate response for some women? Why are you tearing the house apart looking for his clothes? Why the ultimatums?
My wife and I went through "The Talk" in the mid 1980's. I got it. She does not want to participate in any way, shape or form. I do not do anything to stimulate a reaction; I do not do any body modifications. I do not wave the red cape in front of the bull. So, if I buy feminine garments without her knowledge, is that "cheating" when she explicitly said she wants nothing to do with it? IMHO, buying feminine clothing is no different than spending money on golf balls, club and green fees. The issue would be, if any agreed upon amount is being exceeded at the expense of milk for the baby. If the agreement between husband and wife is he stays in doors while she is away, then going out to any venue is a violation of a trust, i.e., cheating.
"Lying by omission" is nothing more than skirting the issue. What's really bothering you?
No need to ask the GGs, they've been responding to that question for 12 years now in that very forum. The thread (in its recent, second installment) can be found at the top of the Loved Ones section : https://www.crossdressers.com/forums...-a-GGs-POV-two
Good reading!
In my case I have a boyfriend who is incredibly accepting, supportive and encouraging so I never have to feel that way. He loves it that I wear lingerie to bed.
The consequences of both can be the same .However I believe cheating involves Somebody else. Solitary CD in my view is not cheating.
If it is cheating, guess we will never prosper?
It doesn’t matter what is the "other-thing" that is lied about or kept secret, or done behind a spouse’s back without saying anything, whether or not it involves some form of sexual release. If such a "thing-other-than-the-relationship-with-a-spouse" exists, it means obviously that priorities lie elsewhere than with a spouse. It can be any form of compulsion: gambling or drinking, or even any behavior that would be seemingly "normal" if it wasn’t done to excess to the point of lacking balance in a person’s life.
And if the behavior involves sexual release in my view it violates the sexual commitment made between couples because then the spouses are not equally invested in their sexual relationship. For example you have a wife who expects her husband to be as much into her as she is into him, and a husband who gets more out of sexual release to his CDing sexual fantasies … or more out of an affair with someone else. And over time, this imbalance is felt by the wife even if it is not named. She can then slowly get turned off, which deprives the relationship of something that was once essential to it - there is now a wedge in her relationship with her husband and she doesn’t know why. Oftentimes she will blame herself.
And I haven’t even mentioned the betrayal a spouse feels upon learning that they’ve been lied to!
So yes. The minute something else takes priority over the relationship, it is a form of cheating and the consequences can be just as dire as if there had been an affair.
I believe it's not cheating (as in adultery) BUT if your secret dressing activities take an inordinate amount of time away from activities you would normally do together or somehow negatively impact your feelings for or your relationship with this woman who you presumably love then you are cheating her out enjoying what should be a happy, fulfilling husband/wife relationship.
Well, there's "actual cheating" in the manner of having an affair outside of the marriage or the (alleged) committed relationship which also includes a sexual component, and then there is "emotional cheating" of the type described by Reine, where the perpetrator's priorities - be it either a golf addiction (or the like) or else crossdressing in our case - rest elsewhere, and this creates a distance between the partners.
I can't speak for the others here and how they rationalize their crossdressing, but I know that in my case...and a strictly DADT one at that...my wife knows of "Leslie", but has never seen or met her, and never wants to. She has often told me that she considers "Leslie" to be the "other woman" in our relationship, even though she only exists virtually and in the manner of an avatar.
When Princess Diana spoke of Camilla's effect on her marriage to Prince Charles and likening it to having a third person in it, thereby making it too crowded, I think that this pretty much sums up my wife's view on the matter as well. In the end, it doesn't really matter whether or not I think that my crossdressing constitutes "cheating"...what matters is how she perceives it.
I have just a couple more comments on this thread. First, we must all remember one of the (if not THE) most important reasons WHY we have to keep our crossdressing secret in the first place. We're not trying to purposely be deceitful to our SO's and somehow take illicit pleasure in sneaking around like some kind of criminal. When I was hiding my crossdressing from my wife, I felt bad and guilty about it. But getting back to the primary reason why I kept it secret: As I and others have stated before, it's the FEAR of the ridicule, ostracizing, possibly losing a job, friends, and partner, AND the fear of being physically attacked or KILLED if we were to find ourselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.
The final comment that I'd like folks to keep in mind (again, repeated elsewhere by me and others on the forum) is the crazy double standard our society places on the way males and females are supposed to dress. GG's, imagine (or remember, if you're old enough) HAVING to wear dresses or skirts to school, work, church, etc. I bet you wanted to wear pants but just couldn't. Since the 70s, you've been able to wear whatever you want, including suits with ties that look like traditional men's suits. That's great! Now, reflect on the REALITY that men can NEVER wear skirts, dresses, leggings, heels, makeup, or certain hair styles, jewelry, hats, etc., without the fears and possible consequences I mentioned above.
So my conclusion is that the idea of cheating has nothing to do with keeping our crossdressing secret. We hide in fear of getting caught, period.
I know there are a lot of different situations and the above opinions are mine only. They may apply to others, but they are my reality. Fortunately I don't have to worry about my wife finding out any more (out to her a couple of years ago), but I do have to worry about most friends and family finding out.
What I read in many posts is essentially self-justification, not empathy with spouses, and it only goes so far.
I used to lay down the same arguments, but quickly stopped doing so. Why? Because the main problem with this kind of debate is that the CDers tend to justify and rationalize from their particular point of view. That CDer point of view is irrelevant to the matter of determining how a spouse can be affected by the hiding. Only the spouse's POV will affect her/his feelings. If it equates cheating for her/him, then your self-justifications are pointless. Otherwise, it'd mean that you could do any kind and level of damage as long as you thought it may not be entirely your fault.
Well you can probably find all kinds of rationalizations to justify burning down your neighborhood.
It doesn't change the fact that you burn people.
Get real.
I totally understand how much of a shock it is when a spouse finds out, especially after years of a marriage where nothing was suspected, and how confused they must be. But after getting over the initial shock, how about showing a little compassion and understanding, not of the crossdresser's "point of view," but of his having to live in fear and hiding for all those years? Those are real experiences, not self justifications.Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeT
Depends if one does it secretly or not. IMO
Larissa, I lived with that fear all my life. I understand and share this feeling, believe me.
But it doesn't change the damage I have done to my couple and the freedom of choice I stole from my wife, because I could have done much better if I had chosen to grow up. Feeling sorry for myself won't change that. Feeling sorry for my wife can hopefully mend some of the damage done and make our life better. That's what I mean by "getting real". You can't change the past. Try with the future.
And to the OP: I covered this in another Loved Ones thread long ago, but basically the hiding of CDing is possibly worse than cheating for some wives.
-- EDIT --
For anyone doubting that the hiding can equate cheating, you should read (in case you missed it) the post made by ReineD in the current thread. I think it is remarkably explained.
The implication is that CD'ing is equivalent to sexual infidelity. That's a false equivalence. Yes, both involve deception, which is never a healthy thing for a relationship, but there the similarity ends.
ReineD at #25: "The minute something else takes priority over the relationship, it is a form of cheating and the consequences can be just as dire as if there had been an affair."
So true; A golf widow perhaps? A guy works over time Monday through Friday while his wife wipes kids' butts all week, and he goes off and plays golf with his buddies on Saturday while his wife continues to wipe butts. Substitute any activity; not just golf. How many times will a guy's wife profess absolutely no interest in his activity and encourage him to go it alone? Insert any activity. Now, you can switch it around. It's applicable to both.
In my relationship, my wife and I are sort of joined at the hip. Due to a visual impairment/depth perception problem resultant of being struck by a car when she was twelve, she does not drive a car. I have become her chauffeur. Most of the time I'll engage with her activity; sometimes read a book in the car. I encourage her to engage with her friends; female and male. Yes, her high school sweetheart sits at our kitchen table sometimes, even when I am not home. I am totally trusting; otherwise why be married. She is not my possession.
Enter my desire to wear women's clothing on occasion. I honor her requests that she does not want to engage. I am fortunate and thankful that she does not berate my desires; call me names; track down a not-out-for-everyone-to-see-wardrobe; cast dispersions upon cross dressing. Yet, it hurts not to be able to share any part of my soul. So, I and most others are left to struggle through life feeling unfulfilled.
What's a guy to do? I cannot seem to get a straight answer from any woman on the subject. Sure, I understand some of the extreme behaviors upset a woman. But, what is the true reason? Is he less than your vision of a man? Will their social standing in the community take a hit? Church doctrine says he is a pervert? As one always asks "What's really the reason?"
I dont know , you all tell me .....
This is one of the reasons I parted ways with my ex husband.. we were no longer intimate( for years after I accepted too) because he was only intimate with Monique..his alter ego. Period..and to act like that doesn't happen with people here is ridiculous. Of course it does .. if you do that to the point that you no longer have any sexual contact with your spouse then its certainly something like cheating/neglect etc ??
I'm not going to live like that.. he can have garish Monique all day now ( in his car where he lives due to job loss over her too ). Yes he had many other men also but Monique will never go away. Sadly Monique became everything and there are those just like that right here reading this .
And no for the 1000000th time..there's no double standard.. people wear what they want and gg's aren't trying to impersonate men (usually) when they wear pants or mens wear . Thats the difference and its been talked about many times here
I really wanted to end my participation in this thread, but I do feel obliged to respond to other posts directed at me. So first of all, Dutchess, I'm sincerely sorry that your ex husband caused you such anguish and grief. Your situation represents the wife's worst fears, and I feel for you. However, we're not all like Monique. In fact, most of us who are out to our wives go out of our way to accommodate their concerns, and stay within the boundaries we've negotiated with them. HOWEVER, you can't be serious about there not being a double standard!!! Women wear whatever they want with no consequences, and if men wear "women's" clothes, hairstyles, or makeup, we are laughed at, physically attacked, lose jobs, lose relationships, and suffer severe mental anguish if not mental illness as a result. Am I somehow unique in this observation of the current status of our society in this regard? I strongly doubt it, but still, it would be nice to hear from others who agree.....Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchess
Larissa, women are discriminated for work, salaries, all kinds of rights (list too long). They are used, abused, ridiculed, mocked, despised.
Men don't wear the clothes they want.
OK, this is getting ridiculous. You're comparing apples and oranges. Of course what you say is painfully true, but it has NOTHING to do with men crossdressing or what this thread is about. I quit. Are you satisfied?Quote:
Originally Posted by DianeT
Oh from reading this forum over the years many are like Monique - Ive been here and in this community a long while and there are many women just like me . The men I see almost all wear what they want ..male,female or in the middle. My guys can't be too sheltered ..my life experiences would be too much for them. Mine all wear nail polish and dont try to hide it, LONG hair , ears pierced 20-30- 40+ years ,slight make up etc etc so my life is different from your and I won't be changing my stance.
Plus Im straight,, I don't mind your clothes but it would be wrong of me to be with someone who thinks/wishes they were a woman.it wouldn't work.
If you do not believe me about the double standard issue the GGs have spoken about it in the ask a GG thread..so Its not just me..
I realize you are frustrated about your situation but many men DO do dress in very androgynous ways if they cannot wear a miniskirt ...
About the fabled double standard...starts at post 151
https://www.crossdressers.com/forums...GG-Three/page7
My responses always seem to hit a nerve.. if you are spending more time with your alter ego than your wife, only you can change that.
I live alone so there is no deception or cheating issues to discuss.
And even if I had an SO, I don't dress to turn myself on OR to attract anyone, and would never 'date' a guy anyway, so it wouldn't be cheating then either. Nor would there be deception, because I'd tell her if/when things became serious.
I do not think it is cheating, it is more like stealing some of your family time from others. I am lucky. I live alone, but sometimes I do feel as if I am stealing from my children, partly because they do not like my life style.
Surely you must realize that in your location (Hollywood, for crying out loud!) societal standards are radically different from the other 99% of the country. In the numerous cities and regions of the country where I've lived and recently traveled, trust me, the double standard is alive and well. Also, the Hollywood men who wear skirts (sometimes just kilts) or dresses always have facial hair and short hair on their heads, perhaps because they don't want their manhood doubted or questioned. (Billy Porter and Dan Levy come to mind.) And FYI, I do not have an alter ego. Larissa is an integral part of me, so your suggestion about how I spend my time is baseless. I spend most of my free time with my lovely wife, regardless of what I'm wearing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchess
Mod note:
If you have already responded to the OP in this thread, don't argue with others how they feel. Everyone has a different opinion, but it doesn't mean keep commenting on other opinions.
Warning: If this continues, your posts will be deleted.
This line from Dutchess kinda says what I was going to say, but I'll say it anyway...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchess
Responding too the OP's question of "Is it cheating?" Well, I'd have to say that it can be - sort of.
Are you more interested in spending time with "HER" (your female side) than you do with your SO?
Does your time with "HER" involve sexuality - perhaps even to the extent of your SO getting less attention?
Do you find yourself wanting your SO to look or act more like "HER?"
If your SO is not OK with "HER", do you find time/ways to sneak in some time with "HER?" Is she finding "HER" things around the house?
I could go on, but I think I've made my point. From the SO's perspective, how is this significantly different from cheating?
In a sense, she is losing her man to another woman, one she can't exactly say "stop seeing."
It must be tough - especially for those ladies who truly lose their loved one to the pink fog.
I just wish that we could make the ladies of the world understand that so many of us would cherish you forever if you could only find a way to embrace the totality of who we are. We're not evil, freaks, or perverts.
What we are is UNIQUE - just like everyone else. :heehee:
Wow! There are certainly various opinions on this subject. Wrote a brief comment a few days ago and still agree with it, but, since then i sort of re-enforced part of my opp. Today, my wife made a comment about a person who was involved with a particular situation many years ago. She commented that a guy was weird for several reasons, one was cause he was a CDer. I just said, oh, he?s not weird cause of being a CD, but is for the other issue, which was being jealous of his son?s success and that he was a hypocrite. Anyway, my point being, I don?t consider myself weird but she would if I shared with her. I had no trouble sharing I was Bi, but have reservations about this. Besides, I think people should have their own space which includes things that are private, as long as one is not hurting or causing pain from their thing. I consider this my space, etc. Also, besides, thinking she may already have suspicions.
Additionally, I tend to agree with some of Larrisa?s points of view.
Thanks,
Jess
I won't challenge your assertion, but in my experience, there's always something that's suspected, especially when there's a real lack of satisfying (for both parties) sexual intimacy. In and of itself, that lack of intimacy creates a kind of suspicion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Larissa Cassandra
And there you have it, from a previously married GG's mouth and loaded with the truth of experience. The lack of intimacy already creates problems/suspicions and -- even without proof of physical infidelity -- the feeling arises that one is being cheated on because sexual arousal now comes from an alternate, unknown source. This kind of infidelity wouldn't hold up in any legal sense but, emotionally, it has a powerful relationship-altering effect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchess
My conclusion is that, yes, it is "cheaty" when defined in the way Dutchess has above.
Agreed, but the case of the fetish dresser is rather a subset of the wide variety of TG people here. Nevertheless, your complaint is valid for any partner who feels like their relationship is impacted in that way. While I still would not equate it with infidelity, it can be just as destructive.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dutchess
Crossdressing may well be considered cheating by your wife or SO if she feels neglected or unsatisfied.
"I don't know, you all tell me...." Dutchess at #35, posted right after my post at #34.
I've read Dutchess' comments over the years, and, all I can say is, if I was her I would have dumped the guy. Marriage is more than a sex act. Unfortunately, I have known too many marriages that have ended in divorce, even though the sex act was there. What was usually lacking was intimacy. Sort of get your rocks off, and roll over and go to sleep. I totally agree with Dutchess. If a guy wants to adopt a female personna at the peril of losing his wife and not attending to her needs for intimacy, the marriage is doomed. The sex act does not equate to intimacy. If your idea of intimacy is to get en femme and get your rocks off when your partner is not on board with that, then you definitely need some marriage counseling. Don't get hung up on a word; look at the situation.