Not A Man

My wife saw an old picture of me the other day and said, thats when I liked being married to you because you were a man. I said I still am. She said No you are not. I thought about what she said and she is right. I am neither a man or a woman, I am in between both, I am half man and half woman. A little background. I came out to my wife of over 30 years 4 years ago. I under dress in panties and pantyhose daily but want to wear more feminine clothing. I also shave my body. I dont want to have surgery but I would like to dress more often in private and be more of a woman around the house. My wife isnt attracted to me anymore, she has told me she likes masculine men. We are married friends, but she is unhappy and feels stuck in our marriage.

This seems to be the story for many here - wives accept because they love us, but sometimes are disappointed we are not as masculine as they thought we once were (I am not convinced I was ever that person)

Jade you are definitely not alone in that situation. My wife isn't happy with my dressing either. I am fortunate enough to have the ability to dress while at work. So I can dress for sometimes hours and then go back to drab mode to go home for my wife. She doesn't want to see me dressed. Said something very similar to what your wife said she married a masculine man that's what she wants to see. Sorry but you got to do some real deep soul searching and decide if your Jade or wife is more important to you. I love wife first but if she ultimatums me Jade or her I will have to do that same soul search. But I know Jade will win.

You brought this issue up in 2020. In that previous thread you posted that you left your hair grow back on your body and nothing changed; still lived as friends. If she is not going to change, perhaps it is time for divorce talk. Sounds like she has tossed you aside as you no longer fit her mindset of a masculine man. The issue going forward is whether living without intimacy is going to hold a marriage together when both spouses still crave it. That first sentence is this post is really telling if it came unsolicited. If she is expressing what she is actually feeling does that mean she does not like like being married to you anymore? If that's the case, then I'd say the situation is hopeless for the future. It's not going to make a difference if you meet all the other perceived requirements and accomplishments of a "masculine man."

Perhaps you could ask what qualities she values in a "masculine" man that you, in her opinion, no longer possess. Is it just the clothes? Her answer might be revealing.

They should invent a name for men like u, Jade. Like mawoman? 1/2 man-1/2 woman? Part man and woman?:straightface:

Wait! How about "trans"!?:)

Your marriage does not sound all that friendly, honestly.

Jade, I'm curious to understand what is holding your marriage together as a marriage. Is it for financial reasons, or what? It appears that your marriage as "friends" leaves you both with unhappiness and frustration. I wish you both good luck and hope your situation improves.

I think the same can happen in any marriage. I have been married for 30 years. The dynamics change , children circumstances etc. Its different from the initial dating years.My wife is non accepting but we still love each other. We have to adapt, change and compromise. Maybe you could too. I would definitely not throw it all away and have a talk. Try not to take each other for granted and sort something out.I understand your dilemma.

You can't blame her for how she feels.
She married a masculine man and that man has faded away.
How would you feel if the roles were reversed?

Jade, I'm sorry that things are not going well in your marriage. Not to pile on, but this is why I told my now wife before we got serious. I wanted her to know exactly what she was getting. She gets the guy much more than the girl, so I think she is happy.

It is hard, for sure. Sex is important in marriages. No doubt about it. Even though I wear panties, my wife has made it clear that she wants a man in the bedroom. I suspect there are more complicated issues in your marriage than your choice of underwear. My marriage improved A LOT when I asked what I could do to help her love accept and love me more and I listened and started doing those things for her. In my mind, in my marriage, she comes first, not me. But that’s how we did it. :-) Nancy

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

Your marriage does not sound all that friendly, honestly.

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Unfortunately I agree with Kim on this, I feel it is a bad situation for all involved

Sounds like its time for you two to have a talk. Perhaps with a counselor who can be a neutral moderator and offer you some suggestions that may work for you both either apart or together.

we all have our preferences. if my wife started wearing beards and prosthetics, it wouldn't work for me. i married a feminine woman and thats what i want. if i wanted to be with a man ...

I am also very much half & half. My wife likes it, but without the dressing part other than a little underdressing in her presence. I don't fully dress often and only when she is gone, but she wants no part of it. "I can't unsee that," she says.

Basically it fractures their image of us and blows apart their expectations. And it sounds like perhaps your wife leans more toward the "traditional" male-female relationship in marriage. But, as TAG said, you can't blame her for her feelings. Feelings just are. I also agree with Kris that you should ask her what it was about you in the past in regard to your "masculine" behavior that used to be there but isn't anymore. My guess is that she will have a hard to time being specific about what was then and what is now that is so bothersome. But, maybe not. Anyway that is a good starting point for more discussion.

But what TAG said about feelings also works the other way. She can't blame you for your feelings. And your motivation for dressing is really based in the feelings you have about your identity and your sense of self. The fact is, unless you are intersex, you are not half man and half woman - it just feels that way. That doesn't mean it is wrong or it is wrong to act on that - acting on it is part of life and living.

So perhaps a combination of what Kris said about asking for details and TAG's emphasis on the reality of feelings might lead to some kind of understanding between you. Unfortunately, people do change and sometimes they can't go back without leaving huge holes in the fabric of their feelings. If she thinks she has not changed but you have, well, I have news for her. That still doesn't change the validity of the feelings you each have - you just have to reach an understanding that life always changes and we need to adapt to that the best we can so we do not end up trying to force someone to throw away a part of who they are just because you don't like it. It is always a two way street.

In my wife's words: "You are more of a man than any 'man-boy' I ever dated as well as some of the clowns at work! You know who you are and you don't play that over the top macho BS that the majority of guys think being a man is about.", and her favorite I hear often "Clothes don't make a man! It what you do!"

As Gretchen M said its a two way street.

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Originally Posted by Paulie Birmingham

we all have our preferences. if my wife started wearing beards and prosthetics, it wouldn't work for me. i married a feminine woman and thats what i want. if i wanted to be with a man ...

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This is an important point IMO that I try to keep in mind. Even though I am bisexual if my wife walked around me presenting as a man I would not find that very attractive. I married a woman and I like her to look like one. If she dressed as a man around me every now and again I would be fine with it, but not daily or even frequently. I would also feel a bit slighted if she had not told me this before we married. In saying that it would not have been a deal breaker for me.

My wife has said I can dress around her, but I choose not to. My wife married a man and I did not tell her about my dressing until after we married. I don't think it fair to expect her to see me dressing as a woman when I did not tell her about my CDing before we married. If I had been honest with my dressing prior to marriage perhaps I would be more open to dressing around my wife. Further if I told her about my dressing before we married she could have decided whether that was something she wanted to deal with or not. TBH I think she would have been okay with my CDing. However, I selfishly did not give her that option. Interestingly I told her I had had sexual experiences with men, but I did not tell her about my CDing, despite telling women in previous relationships

I do still underdress at times, or put on a pair of leggings when my wife and daughter are not home and generally I am satisfied with that.

Well Jade, I came out to my wife at the same age as you, and slightly longer into the marriage. It rocked my wife's world upside down, and she is grieving for her lost husband, and for more innocent times when things were simpler, like not wondering when we scout the women's store section if we're looking for something for her or if I'm also looking for something for me. So, no, she's not completely lost her man, and yet she has, somehow.
Your wife says she feels trapped. My wife has this feeling too. And how else could it be when your husband reveals the thing after the marriage, and especially after a lifetime together like I did. Because as a wife, you don't know if you're going to cope with the thing. You don't know if the couple is going to make it. And if it doesn't, then half your life has vanished in a lie, all the while sleeping in the matrix dreaming you actually had a life. So there is a reason or maybe two to hate your husband. And for not wanting to see him in girl mode. And for possibly being grossed out by the mere thought of it.
Ok, that is the dark side of the picture. But there is a sunnier side. Most wives love their husband and will have a stab at keeping the marriage afloat. But this is a game that takes two to play. So, supposing that your wife is game for it, it boils down to how much effort you are willing to invest in meeting her halfway (knowing that she may already have done or even exceeded her own half, and that the efforts may end up being more from your end). From what I see in your post, the "friends" part, the daily underdressing, the shaving, the wanting to stroll the house in girl mode, it seems a challenge. But honestly, in the end, it will depend on a very simple thing: how much do you love your wife? If you love her much, if she loves you too, start talking with her and work something out together.

This is quite interesting in that so many have remarked "that if my wife started presenting as a male I would not find that attractive".
Er hello. Every time your wife wears trousers that is imitating a male. ( Yes it is more for comfort but put that aside.). Some ladies favour suits with pants (albeit with a feminine flair) is that not cross dressing in the opposite to us.
There is a certain hypocrisy here if you think about it.
With a lot of the members here it is all about the clothes.

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Originally Posted by Kris Burton

Perhaps you could ask what qualities she values in a "masculine" man that you, in her opinion, no longer possess. Is it just the clothes? Her answer might be revealing.

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I agree. Has there been a total makeover? Or, just something additional added?

Hi Jade :hugs:, Sounds like you are between a Rock and a Hard Place, >Orchid**O:daydreaming:O**

Sounds like my situation.

I feel the same about her, 1st 10 - 15 years of marriage she wore dresses and lingerie, not in the last 25, not at all.

I understand completely! It's hell being caught between two genders, not really fitting well into either!

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Originally Posted by Jade P

My wife saw an old picture of me the other day and said, thats when I liked being married to you because you were a man. I said I still am. She said No you are not. I thought about what she said and she is right. I am neither a man or a woman, I am in between both, I am half man and half woman. A little background. I came out to my wife of over 30 years 4 years ago. I under dress in panties and pantyhose daily but want to wear more feminine clothing. I also shave my body. I dont want to have surgery but I would like to dress more often in private and be more of a woman around the house. My wife isnt attracted to me anymore, she has told me she likes masculine men. We are married friends, but she is unhappy and feels stuck in our marriage.

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Both you and your wife are confused. You are still a "man".

You may be a man who likes to wear women's clothes, but you are still a man.

I'm sorry your wife isn't attracted to you anymore, but this often happens in marriages. Perhaps counselling would help or perhaps a divorce would be the best thing.

Discovering feminine things about her mate, can lead to all sorts of insecure feelings for a woman. After all, most women get part of their identity from the traits of the man they marry; what he does for a living, what he looks like, his status in the community, his financial assets, his family's place in the world, all matter. Physical security is important too, as she will want someone who will protect her from harm should the need arise. And, of course, someone who will provide income, support, and a stable home for her and her children.
So when you introduce the girly part of you into the equation, it can kill off the sexual desire she feels for you; once that is gone, she will want to replace that with someone else, and once she does, your relationship is essentially over, or at best, reduced to being 'just friends'. Sex becomes something that you have with each other just because it's convenient, the only 'legal' option, or for religious reasons.

IN short, women want masculine men, and men want feminine women. (usually, there will always be a few who want other things, but not enough for all the crossdressers to be able to find a woman of their own, who is turned on by a feminine man).

OTOH, Men primarily look for someone that they want to have sex with; everything else, comes a distant second.

Sad to read the original post. It's something I have spent my married life trying to ensure never happens. I'm me, there is a woman inside and a male appearance outside. Not much I can do about that without screwing up the lives of myself and others. I like to think I'm intelligent, so I live a massive compromise. My wife has been my rock my purposes for so many years. Her life/happiness matters as much to me as my own, it gives me a focus away from my personal desires, so I know I will never go further and accept what is. We have achieved so much together. No amount of personal achievement could ever surpass that. We are a team.

Biologically yes I am a Man. I am so feminine sometimes that both my wife and I feel I am not a man but also not a woman. I accept and love being gender fluid. I wont have surgery because I am fine with my body. My wife though isnt attracted to me, she wants a normal man. I agree with many that couples counseling may help but my wife refuses to go. I have gone to therapy and it helped. I understand this has always been a part of me and I should have told my wife before we married. Like many here, I try to compromise but also need to be who I really am and that can damage relationships.

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Originally Posted by Krisi

Both you and your wife are confused. You are still a "man".

You may be a man who likes to wear women's clothes, but you are still a man.

I'm sorry your wife isn't attracted to you anymore, but this often happens in marriages. Perhaps counselling would help or perhaps a divorce would be the best thing.

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We all change as we age, although shifting from male to female may be a deal breaker for some if not many.
On the same note, 30 years ago I was 30#'s thinner, and to some that weight might be a deal breaker.
Best anyone can do is try to live the life they feel will make themselves and others happy.
To stay in a relationship BECAUSE...... Isn't health for anyone......
Come to think of it. Back in the dark ages and up till who knows when, women (many times) were stuck in what ever relationship they started off in.
Still today some people stay married for lots of reasons including love, but not limited to that.....
Considering the way the world is spinning, apparently MM or FF relationships are now considered as normal as MF.
So who is to say what is normal what is OK or what tomorrow may offer.....
SORRY for the rambling....
To say you are still a MAN might be stretching what society wants to define as a MAN.
If that were 10K % True, then we all would be able to wear whatever we desired w/o any fear from what others think.
And for most on this site, what others think of us holds us back from what we feel we want to wear in public.
Good Luck, you are in a no win relationship, might be time to move on...
No guarantees as to what tomorrow may bring.

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Originally Posted by Jade P

Biologically yes I am a Man. I am so feminine sometimes that both my wife and I feel I am not a man but also not a woman. I accept and love being gender fluid. I wont have surgery because I am fine with my body. My wife though isnt attracted to me, she wants a normal man. I agree with many that couples counseling may help but my wife refuses to go. I have gone to therapy and it helped. I understand this has always been a part of me and I should have told my wife before we married. Like many here, I try to compromise but also need to be who I really am and that can damage relationships.

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OK, you are at a crossroads with your marriage. You have to decide if you love your wife enough to make some changes in this "gender fluid" thing. Perhaps therapy would help, perhaps you can make the necessary changes on your own or perhaps you care more about "who you really are" than your wife and marriage. You don't have to be "so feminine", it's in your mind and being in your mind, it is something that you can change if you want to badly enough.

It's up to you.

A spouse that is unwilling to go to counseling is a spouse that is not wanting to be in the marriage. Counseling is not torture. It's not a death sentence. It's simply an expenditure of time and effort. If a spouse isn't willing to do that, they do not value the relationship in any meaningful way.

It's unfortunate that you didn't tell your wife before you married. But, that's the past. It can't be changed. There's no do-over.

Thing is, we are what we are. We don't suddenly become feminine because we put on a pair of pantyhose. Whether you are dressed as a woman to the hilt, or dressed as an unshaven man heading off to the grocery store on a Saturday morning, you are you and have always been you. Your wife fell in love with you, and whether she wishes to acknowledge it or not the reality is she fell in love with a man who has feminine aspects.

I can understand her view; there are many women who can't un-see their husbands dressed en femme and lose attraction for them. That's not a logical choice. It's an emotional one. Logic and emotion don't speak to each other.

Fortunately I told my wife before we were married. The first time I got a makeover she was shocked. I think she thought I would just look like a guy with makeup. She did go to a few cd parties with me but told me it really was not her thing. So she accepts my dressing and the fact that I am gender fluid. She just asks that I not wear feminine attire when we go out. This, in my opinion, is a reasonable request. I shop for women's clothes and makeup with her and we have a lot of laughs. Overall I am lucky she is so open minded.

My wife has told me that the only reason she stays married to me is because of our family. We are empty nesters and grandparents. So living as married friends is the result. We do have good times and bad mostly related to me being gender fluid. Separate bedrooms and no intimacy. My wife did agree to marry a man 30 years ago. My need to be feminine just increases over time. I accept and love the way I am.

Being feminine is less important that simply being yourself. My wife caught me dressed years after we married. She married the man. She still loves the man, but crucially she knows me. Who I am, that I won't change. So I can still be the man she loves and she accepts there is much more to me than that.

I hope you two can find that balance.

I first went to a councillor alone. Crucially my wife eventually attended one session, where a third independent party was able to tell her what she already knew. That I was a bit different to most men and would never change. That single session was a vital point for us. It was 30+ years ago.

My wife tells me in a good natured way, "You are not a man".

My wife isnt good natured about it but she isnt being mean either. I think she is just being truthful that she doesnt see me as a man anymore.