Women?s activities

Well, we dressed up as a woman, once, twice, tenth, hundredth time.
We are reasonably satisfied with our appearance.
And what next?
We gather our courage, show up in public, somehow manage to blend in, and head out to go shopping or to the theater or cinema.
Euphoria! The innermost fantasies fulfilled.
Well, what next?
Next shopping, another dress, lipstick, earrings.
And another shopping....
And another...
And again ...

Don't you get bored with this fun?

Maybe you have other ideas for women's activities, besides shopping?

Yes there is a danger there Betty! "More wants more".

You are in a special category, different from many if not most here. You are fortunate to have very female facial features, and judging from your resent accounts, you also have the ability to simply present in such a way that others take you for female. Most of us here do not have that, or at least we don't think we do, which then holds us back from even trying in fear of the possible immediate or resulting consequences.

For some people, taking on a challenge like a sport or a hobby, or learning a new language, is a test of themselves to see if they can do it. Then when they turn out to be a natural at it, they lose interest and look for another challenge.
With CD'ing there are many sub-challenges involved such as makeup, hair styling, walking in heels, sitting, standing etc etc. Many of us enjoy the little victories in mastering some or several of those and we spend a lot of time practicing to get better. Some get it all together, some never do.
Some of the sub-challenges are more difficult to master such as body language, showing confidence, and some just feel impossible to overcome such as voice, body size, adams apple and so on.

But for those who are able to just get to a natural female presentation, and who can muster the courage to go out in the real world and test it out, their challenge can become what to do next to keep getting that "high" from it they experienced the first time. What happens when the challenges others struggle so hard with just seem easy and maybe even trivial, then what?

Well ... I see a a few potential outcomes from that situation. You can keep enjoying the hunt for great outfits and keep making the rest of us envious of your outings. Or, just check the whole dressing thing off as "Been there done that" and look for another challenge. Or, accept that you are good at this, and you have the option to chose to just live as a woman.

- Suzie

That's what women do.
I also do the housework, go out on our boat and enjoy sunning and swimming in one of my swimsuits, do occasional yardwork and lots of other things.
What else did you have in mind for us ladies?

Well I'm just viewing from my wife, they just never get bored of shopping. We will go for coffee 3 or 4 times a week to a patio cafe. Next door there is a women's store with women's cosmetic ideams, and she will go into that store ever time we go and come out with something. I believe I would probably be the same, just never have enough and just keep changing and looking and keep up with the fashions

I love shopping enfemme and never get tired of it. My wife hates shopping? Go figure. Lol

Grocery shopping has to be done, why not enfemme? I go early Sundays, when there is less a crowd. More time to chit-chat with cashiers about the weekend. Garage sale season is upon us. As a lady, it's fun to browse the clothing and jewelry. I have enough tools anyway. Craft fairs or a sewing class. Local historic tours, museums. Sit at the Library and just chill out with a magazine.

Just be yourself.

Woman’s activities?
Really?
In case you live in a cave WOMAN can and do everything & they have clothing on.

Just be yourself and enjoy and you can also do it ALL.

Like, Di, I'm confused, Betty. If u r a trans and dress female all the time, u must feel u r a woman? So everything u do is what women do!:battingeyelashes:

Unlike CD's like me. Who do not feel we r females and have no desire to present as female constantly. Most of my shopping is done for Sherry. But, I have zero interest in dressing to go shopping or to lunch at Wendy's!:thumbsdn:

I dress for special T friendly events and clubbing and bar socializing! Was out Friday nite at small bar with a live band that really rocked! Where Sherry met some trans and other new, friendly folks!:hugs:

If u have never tried this, I strongly recommend going to similar venues near u dressed! Too much fun!:)

I'm at the point in my life where I just LIVE it with all its mundane events, as well as the surprises it throws at me once in a while, so I don't really reflect on my gender identity as I go through it. As to clothing, I no longer think of them as women's clothes, but rather as MY clothes.

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Originally Posted by ShawnaL

As to clothing, I no longer think of them as women's clothes, but rather as MY clothes.

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We have a winner!

Well, Betty. I hope you never ask this question in the company of a bunch of GG's - you may have to duck and cover. My son works with a 40 something year old, stunningly beautiful, female member of the Ironworkers union. She may hand someone their backside if they suggested "what are other activities besides shopping?".

Several of us do construction projects, change oil, tires, mow lawns, drive tractors, ride motorcycles, fly planes, race sail boats, have jobs, many with advanced degrees; there is no end to what GG's do and (as Di said) we all have clothes on while being a GG.

I will add that many of us do not like shopping (me included).

Just live your life and do all the necessary day-to-day things as a woman.

Thank you all for your ideas and hints.
Suzie, you haven't seen me on a daily basis - just an ordinary aging, badly shaved guy. Since you write what you write, it means that I probably managed to disguise myself well.
The exhaustion of my crossdresser bucket list is probably the result of a lack of reason and caution.
I've recently learned my lesson and probably no more going out in public for a long time.
Probably Cheryl's and Fiona suggestion - the role of a housewife will be good.
The lesson I received was not the harshest but I still experienced 10 minutes of total stress, fortunately without further consequences.

LIFE, that's what's next.

Going out and living life. Pretty much whatever you want. I like to play pool. My best friend (GG), rides a Harley along with a couple of my other girlfriends.

Going out and making friends has nothing to do with passing. It has to do with you and who you are. If you don't have problems making friends normally you will not have any problems making friends when you're dressed.

Or you could just run around by yourself. I sometimes have more fun when I'm running around by myself than with my friends.

And then when we get too bored there's always a road trip. A close friend of mine Mr k was looking for a change of scenery so we took a trip to Palm springs. Had so much fun the following weekend we went to Long Beach. There we partied with his sister and her friends.. both places we had no trouble making new friends. So much so I have another trip planned to Palm springs for next month with my best friend.

There's also bowling my friend Mr k is an excellent bowler. So I ordered a pair of pink bowling shoes and pink bowling ball. We've been a few times.

So go out and enjoy life, love Jean

I've been out shopping a number of times, always with a goal in mind. I have a male driven notion of hunting, not so much shopping. Consequently, shopping is tough on my budget. What inspires me to get out is to meet up with CD friends I have made. In their company I can 'shop.'

Let's not call them "women's activities", shall we? Let's just say things to do while dressed.

I've been to 4 plays, 5 concerts, flown three times, gone out with my GG friends (including a day out today with my friend Michelle), restaurants, bars (only my favorite bar closed recently), walks, a Cardinals game, train travel, sightseeing, etc. The only limit is your imagination.

I am with Di, Char, Shawna and others; women do what men do plus what women do and pretty much everything else. There are a few things women do that men don't generally do and the other way around is also valid. I hate to bring this up, but it would probably be best to not bring up stereotypical behaviors as those are nothing but distortions of the facts to fit a particular point of view that is generalized. We are all individuals and even though there are necessary and natural distinctions between males and females, for the most part men and women are more alike than different when one adds the fine scale features.

I get what you mean.

Yes, unfortunately, that's been a lot of it. Also, I've always loved the salon. I could easily spend the day. This hair salon, that nail salon, brows at another. Depending on what you have done, that's about a day. I always did facials in male mode because you obviously can't wear makeup when you're getting a facial, although male mode used to be a lot different than it is now. It was still pampering that I more or less considered girl time.

Although it's gotten pretty repetitive after 50 years and sometimes I've gotten bored with it, a day or a weekend always went by too quickly. I didn't always follow the exact same schedule, but taking a typical Saturday at a hotel. By the time I got showered and shaved it'd be around 9:00. I'd spend 45 minutes on my hair, even if I was going to get it done. By the time I figured out what I was going to wear and did my makeup, I wouldn't get out the door before noon. I usually skipped lunch (and I never ate breakfast). I almost always got my hair done. If I was doing it all, that mean color with foil highlights followed by a roller set. I don't think I ever timed it, but that's more than 2 hours just on hair. Next I'd do the nail salon, and the fastest mani-pedi is 45 minutes, usually more like an hour. Travel time and a even a short wait and you've killed another couple of hours. Off to the brow salon. Waxing or threading only takes 15 minutes. Add in tinting and you'll spend an hour or so there. Before I've done any shopping it's almost dinner time, but I prefer to put off dinner to as late as possible. By this time I often felt like I needed to go back to my room to shave and redo my makeup. Even if I didn't do that, I'd be ready to go to my room for a bathroom break and freshen up and change clothes. Only after all that would I be in shopping mode. If things went perfectly, I'd shop till the stores were getting ready to close and find someplace for dinner at about 9:00. I'd finish dinner at around 10:00 and head back to the hotel. If I was staying at a hotel with a bar or restaurant, about half the time I'd get a drink before heading to my room. I was almost always back to my room by 11:00.

This was only about 1 weekend a month. Most of my girl time wasn't so all-consuming, and a lot of that was kind of what you're talking about. Get dressed at home, run to a couple places, then right back home. There were times (still are) when I wondered where else I could go just to get another hour out. I never had a really good answer for that. I've spent some time in downtown office areas trying to look like I had someplace to go, or trying to find some creative way to waste time without looking like it. Although it can feel contrived, I loved even the most mundane.

In my most recent "trying to get back into it" mode, I've spent A LOT of time out, mostly on extended business trips. I'm getting better, but I'm usually still coming home wondering if it's worth it. I guess the answer is yes, because I keep doing it, but it's not what it used to be. More on that in another thread (maybe). I can't blame all that on it getting boring. I've just got to adjust to a different phase of life.

As I no longer venture out much at all. I get on with the house work and enjoy computer games and chatting here when dressed. But mostly I dance. I love dancing always have always will. It's warm today though. Better watch those arm pits.:o

So interesting that many of us share our experiences on here that are not shopping focused and still folks (in which are bored with shopping outings) cannot come up with doing other activities that are not shopping based or what were considered to be “women activities” back 60 years ago!

I stood back from this one to see how it played out. Given my age, I suppose I would be expected to see womens activities as Ladies Aid, quilting, and general household stuff. But as I grew up, married and worked in a variety of jobs I realized that childhood perspective was only what I noticed of womens lives, rather a narrow and selective view it was. Granted, women of my parents generation were usually spared barn cleaning duties, but got involved in pretty much every other aspect of farming, while still (in those days) being expected to clean the house, do the laundry, prepare and serve fore and afternoon lunchs, midday and supper. This did not leave much time or energy for other activities.

My two wives (in series, not at the same times) worked outside the home, cared for the kids, and so on, and although I helped as much as I thought possible, their days were full and exhausting too.

There was a brief interval, basically while we were dating and pre-kids, when there were more nights out either as couples or her with the girls, but looking back those were pretty rare events as well. Not much clubbing and only as much shopping as our tight budgets would bear.

For clarification, I don't at all consider the things I do while dressed to be the length and breadth of the things women are capable of, or of the things they do on a daily basis. It's just the things I do. Things were I'll have minimal encounters with males, things that I can do anonymously and alone, things where I'm not in any danger. In general, things where I can safely kill time and be out, control the amount of interaction, not sweat too much or have to speak too much.

It strikes me that what this thread is really about is what men can't do or are afraid to do.

Touche', April! More than a little truth in that. :)

April, you hit the spot.
It is known that women today are liberated and can do whatever they like.
They can paint their nails or lift weights at the gym,
try on a colorful dress or chop wood, etc.
And men? Chop wood as much as possible, lift weights at the gym - too.
But the alternatives listed? Well, rather not.
When you dress up as a woman you get a pass to another world.
How do you use it?
Almost everyone on the forum writes about shopping, the braver ones a hairdresser or a beautician.
Other ideas are lacking?:heehee:

I would say to be comfortable in YOUR skin. Then go do what needs to be done. Remember that you have every right in this world to express how you feel and to go anywhere.

I love the opera idea. That must have been fun. The bathroom thing did work out for you. All that noise that you spoke about earlier (standing in line) was really inside your head.

Be free! Just remember to clean shave first. (at least I make sure I do)

Other ideas? I mowed my lawn and painted my house. (I have an old wig for such occassions). More outgoing activities? I do love my visits to the local coffee/wine bar and at least once each summer I will travel up to the headwaters of the Mississippi to hike along the trails, visit the gift shops and have lunch at Douglas Lodge.

Great:)
But all these activities are available in małe mode too.

Granted, none of those are exclusively womens activities. Other than getting a pelvic exam or birthing, the range is pretty much open to all genders.

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Originally Posted by Betty70

April, you hit the spot.
It is known that women today are liberated and can do whatever they like.
They can paint their nails or lift weights at the gym,
try on a colorful dress or chop wood, etc.
And men? Chop wood as much as possible, lift weights at the gym - too.
But the alternatives listed? Well, rather not.
When you dress up as a woman you get a pass to another world.
How do you use it?
Almost everyone on the forum writes about shopping, the braver ones a hairdresser or a beautician.
Other ideas are lacking?:heehee:

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I'm sorry, but this post is even more condescending than your first post.

Women are liberated because they can chop wood?

Women's rights to control their own bodies in the US are currently under assault by predominantly white males in a number of states and five white guys on a certain legal body.

Women consistently are paid less than men. Women are more vulnerable to physical and sexual assault.

Do you really think women have it better? What planet do you live on?

And you chose to insult women by referring to "Women's Activities"?

At the same time, you are going to stop going out because, heaven's forbid, you had to stand in line for TEN MINUTES to use the loo at the opera? Oh, the injustice of it all!

If you want to go out, find something you like to do and go out and do it dressed. But quit moaning about what women do--and whatever others on this board do when they are out.

Don't take what I wrote so seriously.
The juxtapositions I used were meant to be humorous in my understanding.

I'm sorry if I offended.

I just wanted to ask you about activities that society customarily assigns to women rather than men and that you enjoy while in disguise.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

Other ideas? I mowed my lawn and painted my house. (I have an old wig for such occassions). More outgoing activities? I do love my visits to the local coffee/wine bar and at least once each summer I will travel up to the headwaters of the Mississippi to hike along the trails, visit the gift shops and have lunch at Douglas Lodge.

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I use a weed whacker extensively on the front lawn. I've taken a few rock hits to my legs. One even bruised. Only for this reason I decided to save the boobs for later. That could be an expensive accident.

Let's see....This morning, I went to work out class. Then stopped to take pictures of some eagles that built a nest nearby. In a few minutes, I will be mowing and raking the lawn. Just finished helping load and unload wood from our pickup truck. Later today, I will be getting my bike ready for a ride. Tomorrow, I will be washing our sailboat, then helping put sails on, and take it for a sail if time allows.

A few weeks ago, I went to Tree Runners and did a zip line course. I also work at a concert venue and worked last weekend.

My hubby did some volunteer activities "dressed" (updating spreadsheets at the Cancer Society). There are volunteers at the art museum, libraries, Kid's Food Basket, maybe the Red Cross, many thrift stores, lots of volunteer opportunities. You could get a part time job at some summer concert events. Check your local area and see what events are happening and see if they need volunteers.

Hmm, I guess I'm not sure which "women's activities" are acceptable to you? Are they only activities that you have a pre-conceived notion about?

Do you HAVE to wear a skirt/dress/heels to do "said" activities? If so, are you limiting yourself to a 50's housewife type of dressing/activities? You do have the option of wearing jeans, shorts, skorts, all purchased from the women's department.

Do anything that you want, just wear whatever makes you happy while you are doing any activity.

I have a single father, a divorced brother, an ex, a current husband, and several sons who live with their wives or girlfriends. Whether living with a female or single, all the men in my life (plus my male friends) shop for groceries, clothing, and household goods, go to restaurants, bars, concerts, shows, outdoor fairs, etc, go on walks, bike-ride (except my father who is elderly), go on vacations, cook, do laundry, clean the house, do yard-work, do DIY home repairs, tend to children, spend time with friends and family, in addition to their careers (except for my father who is retired) … in short, they do everything that all the women in my life do.

Also, I and my female friends and relatives ready ourselves for the day just like men do. We shower, brush our teeth, get dressed, and get on with our day, so the business of "next shopping, another dress, lipstick, earrings" doesn’t really apply to us except on very rare occasions. I’ve worn makeup just once this year, to go out to a special dinner in a nice restaurant. And I didn’t feel compelled to wear jewelry, a dress, or heels. :)

So what is women’s activities exactly? Maybe you just mean doing things that both genders do, while being dressed as a woman in a magazine?

Sorry to be nit-picky, but I’ve fought all my life against gender inequality and other than still existing inequities in salaries I’m glad to say that in our day and age, I don’t see any differences between men’s and women’s activities, except those involving manual labor that requires the brute strength that some men have and most women don’t have.

As to the ideas you request, just do everything that everyone does, that I mentioned in my first paragraph. You just want to go out dressed … it doesn’t really matter what you do.

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
Quite by chance I found myself an example of activity, of the type I was trying to ask about:
I hit on a sale, literally for a few pennies a very nice dress, unfortunately I knew immediately that it is definitely too big on me.
Nevertheless, I bought it. There is a sewing machine at home, I will try to taper it myself and shorten it a bit.
As for me, it is a kind of activity just of a feminine nature, however, if this thesis should offend someone, I apologize in advance.
On a daily basis, I enjoy DIY: carpentry and electromechanics.
This would be the equivalent of DIY in the female mode.
It will be interesting to see what comes out of it.
Greetings:)

It is the opposite for me. I bought a couple sewing machines to alter my guy clothes to fit.
There is a large selection of women's clothes in my size so I can usually find something that fits off the rack. I'll buy crop sizes instead of hemming.

I took typing in high school when few guys took that. An extremely useful skill that I still use today!
When I started working our department had two secretaries. Their jobs were eliminated and everyone was expected to do the stuff they used to do.
Our company was progressive in that they tried to promote one of the secretaries to an editor position but it was too hard for her.
They had better success with our current editor. She started at the very bottom as she dropped out of the work force to raise her kids. Then the discovered she could write!

How could one possibly ever get tired of shopping. I go to multiple thrift stores once a week sometimes two just to see what I can find.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

<snip So what is women’s activities exactly? snip>

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I think everyone may have just missed something: To me, 'women's activities' are simply just plain old activities of any type, which are done just ever so slightly differently, when done by a woman. This is easily demonstrated, by watching the girls and women in our lives, and seeing how they do things, differently from how we and other males do things. It's not even really a conscious thing, it's just something that we automatically 'just do', differently between the sexes, because of how we grew up doing those things.
One simple thing, is how we take off our tops. Women tend to use both hands, while men typically just grab the collar from the back with one hand and pull it over.
Or perhaps the practice of sitting down and keeping their knees together, from way back when, when pretty much all females wore skirts and dresses, and were careful to avoid exposing themselves, while men had no such care.
The way a woman with long, carefully styled hair, puts on her coat or jacket before going out into a windy day, so as to avoid instant mess, as opposed to a male who typically has short hair doesn't bother with it, or a male with long hair who simply doesn't care if it becomes a rat's nest mess.
The care needed when sitting down to eat at the dinner table, to be careful not to let her hair get into her food while she's eating, or onto her plate, bowl, or cup.
Spending time detangling long hair, and caring for split ends.
The care needed to get nail polish / make up, just right.
Or drinking using a straw, instead of shoving a can or bottle up to our lips, because they don't want to ruin their lipstick.
Using fabric softener while doing laundry, so that the cloth becomes soft and smells nice, where as I, as a kid, grew up doing my own laundry, and didn't care if my jeans and other clothes ( even underwear) were stiff as boards or wrinkled all over; we 'were men', and weren't supposed to be concerned with 'girly' things like having soft, nicely ironed clothes.

All of those, and more, 'women's activities' which are different from the very same activities done by a typical male.
Hope that explains things a bit better.
During my childhood, when I was growing up and really believed that some day I would wake up as the girl I was supposed to be, I watched my sister, mother, classmates and other girls, in order to learn how to do all the things in life, as girls did, so that after it happened, no one would ever know that I had ever been a boy. So I watched, and practiced, 'girl's activities', meaning, as how it's done 'by girls'.

I wasn't going to respond to this topic but, having read all the posts and, in particular, today's responses from "sometimes_miss/Lexi" I'll add just a few sentences.
Yes, age does come into it. I grew up in those long-ago days when, as others have remarked, skirts/dresses/slips/girdles/nylons, etc were just about universally worn and, yes again, women's roles and activities were generally different from those of today. Those clothing items have been very largely rejected by most women, partly because they found it easier to widen and deepen their roles and activities when not wearing those things.
Back in those now-distant times I admired both the clothes and the women wearing them and very often wondered what it would be like to do the things they did while wearing those clothes. I found out by, in a very limited way, putting on the clothes. I can say without doubt that my admiration for the women around me increased as a result. I never got round to the make-up or the hair styling - too much effort - but finding out how it felt to go about even basic activities (only around the house and garden) wearing those clothes confirmed my view that women were harder-working and made more effort than ever I did. Although I regret the passing of those "old days" from the clothing point of view, I most certainly understand why women's preferences in clothing have changed so much and in no way regret women's changed roles.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

ITo me, 'women's activities' are simply just plain old activities of any type, which are done just ever so slightly differently, when done by a woman.

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Hi sometimes_miss, long time no see! :)

But why do you feel as if women do things differently than men do. Examples: in the kitchen, the men I know do things exactly the same way I do. In the yard as well, or the way we hold a paintbrush to paint a room, or a screwdriver to fix something, or the way we all back our cars out of the driveway into the street. My SO and I hold our laptops on our laps and type the same way. I'm running out of examples.

As to your examples, you mention putting on a coat with long hair. A guy with loose long hair will pick up his hair and get it out of the way of the collar just like a woman with long hair would. And he certainly will also do his best to not get his long hair trail into his soup bowl when eating. lol. And it stands to reason that both men and women with longer hair will need to pass a comb through it more than men and women with shorter hair. As to going out on windy days, I think everyone gets their hair mussed up, women and men with shorter or longish hair. Women no longer get their hair styled weekly at the salon with tons of hairspray the way my mother did, requiring a scarf when out on windy days for protection. At outdoor events, I see both men and women drinking sodas or beer out of a can. As to the different ways we sit, I'll give you that one. Men have extras between their legs that make it uncomfortable to sit a long time with thighs together like women do, and so the difference there is simply due to having a different anatomy. As to using fabric softener, my sons do the laundry just as much as their wives and they all do it the same way, whether they use fabric softener or not. As to ironing, honestly I don't see any of my daughters-in-law ironing. I don't even know if they own ironing boards. lol. I cannot remember the last time I ironed something but if I did it was likely a man's dress shirt ... not my own stuff. Most casual clothes don't need ironing, and they all (sons and wives) dress pretty casually most of the time. Also I've seen my sons take their Tshirts off in the yard. They use both hands just like I do.

I wonder sometimes if CDers perceive things differently than how they are, because they seem to put females up on a pedestal so much?

Well for me, never tire of the day to day routines. Shopping-love it, selling old outfits-love it, buying new outfits-love love it, watering the yard dressed each morning-love it, cooking meals in heels-love it...

I just love wearing my things and doing whatever needs to be done.

I do not seem to assign gender to activities. I do find however that I seem to bring slightly different attitudes to activities when in femme mode. For example, when I sit down at the piano in a dress I favor slightly different styles. This is just a personal quirk, not a reflection of any larger trend. . . . vale

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Originally Posted by ReineD

Hi sometimes_miss, long time no see! :)

But why do you feel as if women do things differently than men do. Examples: in the kitchen, the men I know do things exactly the same way I do.

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Well, Reine, it's really pretty simple; you and I have observed different sets of people.

I have enjoyed revisiting this thread. Several rather PC posts. Men and women are still very different creatures, IMHO. Many of the stereo types remain and some will always remain. I will always enjoy the part of me that understands the more female side of society. As to understanding a typical male I honestly feel less connection, mentally. I feel there are huge differences. Many have historically been social. But I can't help thinking many are physical in our brains. I think I understand transgendered, mentally that is me. Physically I am 100% male, with no hope of ever convincing any one else otherwise. Yet life goes on, so we must each enjoy ours buy what ever route we take.

For me the most I could do was photo shoots with new outfits.
I tried to come out to the wife but it went very bad.
I do feel I have some great photos to look at.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

A guy with loose long hair will pick up his hair and get it out of the way of the collar just like a woman with long hair would. And he certainly will also do his best to not get his long hair trail into his soup bowl when eating. lol.

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Bowl. Long hair. Bowl and long hair... Mmmh. Oh, right! Note to self: next time I dress, go out to a bar with a GG friend and pull back her hair when she's busy over a toilet bowl after a couple too many drinks. So feminine!

So this is the topic that inspired the epiphany that I am transgender. For most of my life I thought I wasn't or couldn't be because of my behavior and what I liked or didn't like.Like shopping, I don't like random shopping. There are tons of women who don't like it either. Everything I enjoy doing there are women who do the same things. Now I just do the same things I normally do only dressed the way I want to be dressed.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Well, Reine, it's really pretty simple; you and I have observed different sets of people.

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We don't "see" the world. We create a representation of it in our mind by picking the signals and cues that are salient to us and rebuilding that complex clockwork into a simpler model that we can understand and process (whoever had to deal with discordant testimonies from witnesses of the same remarkable event will know what I mean, so imagine how it can translate to more subtle things). You built a model of women that fits your internal schemas. Reine did too. I do too. We all do. At some point, we need to confront this internal representation to the reality of things. It may match sometimes, and sometimes not. Some will try to defeat it in the hope of testing its validity, incrementally adjusting it to make better predictions. Their model will evolve constantly. Child do this a LOT, notably by testing people and trying things. Some adults, on the other hand, will try to confirm it by carefully selecting the signals that keep proving it right. At some point, they will get the hang of it and their internal model will not evolve anymore. People who do not make their model evolve will eventually face a situation when the world has changed to a point where the model so visibly fails to work that even cherry-picking facts and signals won't cut it anymore. They may then reconsider the model, or chose to keep defending it, which may require a lot
of efforts, efforts which will intensify as time passes and the disconnect grows.
Both you and Reine have seen the same world. But you retained different things. I don't live in North America (although I spent quite a few months there) so I won't comment on the gendered mannerisms out there. I think girls do tons of little things that guys don't, and vice versa. In my heterosexual mind (and maybe my CDer's too), these things are seductive, because they are markers of a sex I love. But I may also be interpreting (inventing, in a way) a lot of it, and missing a lot of the rest. And anyway, they are very small details, and these differences tend to wane with every new generation. In the end of the day, like Reine, I don't see a difference between a girl drilling a hole and a guy doing the same. And I don't see a close resemblance between how modern women dress and how I do when CDing, even if I have a strong impression of dressing "feminine", and that's ok, since that's not my original aim. The disagreement with GGs will begin if we try to apply our pink lens to the world and say that the world is so. No. Our CDer's model of women is so. And women are whatever they are and not concerned by it. This thread is choke full of such confusions.

P.S. About women being described as shopping addicts: I observed that many women spend a lot of time shopping for clothes for their husbands (who don't care to go the mall to renew their wardrobe) and children. When my wife and I go to a male department on sales days, we see a lot of women shopping alone (and although that doesn't count as a statistic, the only time I have seen a husband shopping for his wife was to buy her lingerie). Easy test: ask a wife the sizes of her husband. Then do the same with the husband (a non-CDer if possible) about his wife's sizes (you can even try his OWN sizes for some :) ).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Well, Reine, it's really pretty simple; you and I have observed different sets of people.

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DianeT has an excellent point about most people seeing what they want to see in order to conform with their belief systems. But I think this is mostly true if someone has any given strong agenda, whether this is political, spiritual, or social. They are determined to only see, or value, or believe things that confirm their bias.

I do firmly believe that CDers have an elevated opinion of all things feminine because they are constantly striving to imitate that which nature has not given them at birth.

It is also true that men and women share lot of things, including emotions, likes and dislikes, hobbies, career choices, behaviors, etc. If you just look around and see both men and women experience joy and grief, pleasure and anger, jealousy, pride, etc, enjoy the same sports, engage in the same careers, take responsibility for the same things financial and household related, etc, ... and the only real difference between them is their genetic sexual differentiation.

The gender gap has narrowed considerably in the last generation to the extent that it no longer exists in many areas (career choices, financial and household responsibilities, leisure-time choices), and all of this does influence attitudes and behaviors. I see it all around me, from my children, nieces, nephews, friends' children, young neighbors, etc.

Hello Suzie,
apart from shopping for women's clothes I don't do anything "feminine".
I do much the same things as my wife (and vice versa).
I don't go to the hairdressers and she does not play guitar.
Life is good!
luv J