Restroom incident last night.

Hey y'all! :) Yes, I know it has been a while since I've posted, I've just been busy, busy! LOL

Anyway, I went out as Kimberly last night and went to the bar that I've been hanging out at in Tupelo, MS. I'm not gonna post pics, cause I really didn't take any. But anyway, I've been there several times, mostly on Saturday nights for karaoke but this weekend, I got home late Saturday evening and I wasn't able to get dressed up and go to the bar for karaoke. So anyway, there's a woman and her husband who frequent that bar, (from what I've been told, they go there EVERY day), she sings on Saturday nights and she has also heard me singing. Now I've said on here before that I can't sing like a woman, so I get up on stage, dressed like a woman and sing like a man! LOL So obviously, this said woman has heard me singing.

Now of course, I'd been using the ladies' room ever since I've been going to that bar and last night was no different. So the woman whom I mentioned, she walked into the restroom, JUST to confront me about using the ladies' room. She had walked in just as I was washing my hands and she said, "You know this is the women's room". I said "Yes, I know. All I intend to do is my business, wash my hands and get out". Then she said, "Ok, just wanted to let you know". I said, "Ok". Then, she kinda shot me a dirty look, whipped around and walked out the restroom door.

She seemed to be the only one there who has had a problem with me using the ladies' room at that bar. Even some of the female bartenders have seen me in there, washing my hands and thay'll say, "Hey" or just nothing at all and everyone goes on about their business. On another occasion, on a Saturday night, another woman was in the ladies' room at the same time I was and while I was washing my hands, she complimented my singing! So obviously, she knew I wasn't a GG! LOL

But anyway, the woman who confronted me about using the ladies' room really upset and angered me..... Keep in mind, she is NOT an employee, bartender or the owner of the place, she's just a customer same as I was. It seems that she's the only one who had a problem with me using the ladies' room; the bartenders don't have a problem with it and I'm betting neither would the owner. Now, what, if anything should I do about this?

I think she'll go to management and since she and her husband are such good customers they'll tell you to quit using the ladies room, or her husbands will confront you. I'm a non-confrontational person. If either to those happened I wouldn't go back. I might not go back now, before one of those things happens.

I always have tried to find unoccupied or single user restrooms. There was a fast food restaurant that was in the area I used to go out a lot that had a clean, single user ladies room and I'd make it a point to stop there. I always bought something, usually just a drink. It was always late and they were never crowded at that time. I went in one night and was the only customer. I used the ladies room and when I came out one of the employees said, "The owner said to not let you use the ladies room anymore." I jsut said OK and never went back. Like I said, non-confrontational.

I agree with Rhonda Jean, I would no longer go there cause next time it will be the husband and his friends. Sometimes things are just not worth it. Believe me I learned this the hard way, not over trans issues but just the road of life.

Hmm. sounds like you ran into the hater type. I totally understand being upset about being confronted like that, which is the reason as a crossdresser I often use the men?s facilities. I know it seems to be almost a right of passage on this site, but I grew up in the Deep South as well, where boys just do not go into the girls room, and that got burned into my head permanently. Granted I have used the ladies rooms a few times but mostly in LGBT clubs and never had an issue. Still, there is always a slight risk.

I am not sure if I would go back there as it would be unpleasant running into her and she is likely to be there. That would spoil the fun for me despite knowing I am giving in to their intolerance.

Sandi

I would go about my business as usual. Rock up next Saturday, sing, use the ladies as you always have done.

You have no real idea what this person will do about it. She may do nothing. Don't try to second-guess her!

If she does complain to management, they have three options. They can either do nothing about it, or they can speak to you about it, or they can tell her to mind her own business.

Please don't try to pre-empt the situation. It is not your problem at the moment. It only will become your problem if the owners do receive a complaint and they decide that they don't want/need you as a customer anymore.

If these two things do occur, then you might want to go and sing somewhere else on a Saturday night.

I'm probably more risk averse than most. Nice way of saying "chicken". I have never used the men's room crossdressed and hope I never have to. I'm not comfortable going in there with just polished nails and a purse. If my gf is with me I have her hold my purse. It's not often I have to use the restroom in public anyway, and when I do there's almost always a "family" or single user restroom. If I'm driving, stopping at a hotel and using the restroom in the lobby is my best choice.

If you go back in there I'd like to know what happens.

OMG...I was at a LGBTQ bar and when I needed the restroom I used the men's room without even thinking about it. It's a one room with a locking door but it does say men's on the outside. I don't think anyone even noticed. Not even me, funny...

Upsetting you was her goal. She is an ignorant boor. Don't give her the satisfaction. Your response was more than enough to show her that you were not about to be cowed.
As for the worry about the assholes going to management, if the management does anything but invite said assholes to leave, you are in the wrong venue.

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Originally Posted by Kimberly A.

Now, what, if anything should I do about this?

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Do not allow a hateful bigot live rent free in your head. Continue to go about your business, minding your own business.

What really occurred was, you were harassed at the establishment. However, life isn’t fair.

After thinking about this it occurred to me that a bar is probably the last place a crossdresser needs to be. More bad judgment occurs in bars than any other place.

Kimberly, Keep going. Your money is just as good as hers.

Hi Kim :hugs:, It's probably best not to Press the Issue,

I am be dense or its late at night. Were you en drab in the ladies' room when the woman confronted you? If that is the case that is different than en femme using the ladies' room. Are you certain or you just assumed she identified your voice as belonging to a man attired as a woman?

In my city, all single occupancy restrooms must be identified with male and female signage. That was instituted at the request of the transgender community.

If you decide not to return to that bar, you should contact the management and explain, while naming names why they have lost a customer and mention the possibility that they could lose even more. In other words, stick her attitude right up her rear end.

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Originally Posted by Stephanie47

I am be dense or its late at night. Were you en drab in the ladies' room when the woman confronted you? If that is the case that is different than en femme using the ladies' room. Are you certain or you just nassumed she identified your voice as belonging to a man attired as a woman? .

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Those were my thoughts to. I would only use the ladies if presenting enfemme. In drab it'd be the mens room. That seems to be the accepted rule.

It's often easy for us to underestimate the transformation we undergo when we put on the slap and our femme clothes. People will ot connect the two people they've seen together, voice or not.

If you opt to go back there then if enfemme ladies, drab mens.

For context, it states "I went out as Kimberley"

Reality check for all the Dear Abbys on here: Kimberly was in Tupelo! Not Boston, not LA, not even Nashville. Tupelo, a town of 37 thousand people where nothing significant has happened since Elvis Presley popped out of his mom. The fact that this is the only time that Kimberly has experienced anything like this is a wonderful testament to how far we've come as a society. So she ran into a jerk. Once. So what? It's bound to happen to all of us. I'm not going to stop going to a place where I'm welcomed just because one jerk decided to question me. You keep doing you.

Hey, Tupelo is not really some "Red Necky" place, It's my second-favorite MS town, a major transportation hub, a short trip from Memphis, TN. ( Biloxi, on the Gulf coast, is my favorite) I like to think of Tupelo as Biloxi without the beach. Everything you want is there from Shopping malls, Theaters, banks, etc. within a radius of a few miles, and people can afford to own nice Houses.

I would have a talk with the manager, or owner. I would tell them what happened & ask which bathroom they think I should use.
If the management is OK with using the ladies room, I would go back & ignore the customer.

Kimberly, I am sorry you had to go through such an obnoxious situation. I guess many of our responses here are concerned with your safety. You are in the best position to evaluate the risks.

All my experiences in bathrooms when dressed are really fun, most of the nightclubs we go have some queues and usually as people are a bit inebriated there is some space for small talks and they are usually very positive.

When we were in Buenos Aires last year, asked my girlfriend waited outside the booth; one girl asked her when did I started my transition… lol.

Stand your ground, but in a reasonable way. You don't know what that woman did after that incident. You could talk to the management and not complain but just them know you are a regular customer and what happened. If there is a shift in the attitude of others next time you go then you will know something about what resulted from the encounter but still not know what. Otherwise just go about your business like nothing happened. It is just her opinion being expressed; the majority have no problem with your using that bathroom. The fact is there are a lot of those kind of people around and you crossed paths with one.

I think some of y'all are underestimating the danger here. You can be right and still get your ass kicked.

Unless it would violate some draconian, not-yet-thrown-out, un-Constitutional law, I would politely stand my ground. Haters are cowards, by and large, and while there might be a lot of bluster, only the dimmest (or drunkest) is likely to resort to violence. I, for one, will take that beating (assuming that my own response to an unprovoked physical attack is less than effective), on the assumption that the outcome will be far worse for the hater.

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

I think some of y'all are underestimating the danger here. You can be right and still get your ass kicked.

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Yes, I think that the answer to whether Kimberly goes back or not really does come down to the following.

Are you able to hold your own in high heels?

Who will those around you side with?

But most of all:

Is the potential damage to yourself, your livelihood etc worth it for feeling pretty?

Only in America, the Land of the Free. It seems so sad!

On a somewhat lighter note, the only reference to Tupelo that I have had until now, Bobbie Gentry refers to (fictional)) brother getting married and buying a store in Tupelo, in 'Ode to Billy Joe', which I play on the 3rd of June every year.

I would talk to the management, and take their lead. If they say yes, I would continue. If they say no, I would leave and never come back.

Good point Brenda though it is still Mississippi. We are not talking where you are from or the northeast or California etc. The south is still very redneck and our safety is more important than making a statement.

The bottom line for anyone who goes into a restroom is that they should use it for one of the purposes it was designed for. If a man went into the men's room to pick a fight with another man, that would be inappropriate in the same way as a man going into the men's room to solicit sex with another male. (It's simply a matter of degree.) If a fight were to erupt in that situation, what the owner of the establishment should do is to kick out the man who picked the fight. I don't see any reason that the rules should be any different for women.

I think the thing to do is to carry on as before and to keep your cool as you did. If you have a female friend -- maybe even one of the female bartenders -- get her to accompany you when you need to go in if this woman is present, so that you have a witness that you didn't engage in any inappropriate behavior. Or maybe tie a bow on your private bits; if the cops arrive on a call of indecent exposure, you can ask the cops to query her about whether there was anything unusual about what she allegedly saw, then prove her wrong. But I really believe having a witness is your best defense.

Another potential issue is that the woman could say that you attempted to assault her in the restroom. In that case, it is her word against your word and you will be going to jail for many years. It is not worth it. I would not ever go back there.

You are just going to the rest room. Every one does it. So one person does not appreciate that you present as women at those facilities. Clearly she is a regular as you are. If possible talk to her again and befriend her. If not ignore her for now and take it as it comes.

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Originally Posted by Jamie001

Another potential issue is that the woman could say that you attempted to assault her in the restroom. In that case, it is her word against your word and you will be going to jail for many years. It is not worth it. I would not ever go back there.

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It's pretty weird, that we have to think about going to the restroom in pairs to avoid being attacked by cis women. :idontknow:

Yes, I believe that it is necessary especially with all of the hate propaganda regarding trans folks from politicians and the media. We are being demonized and are like the communists of the 1950's. All it takes is a GG to say that you touched them in the bathroom and your life is over. It is very say. We are living in the 21 century and things should be getting better, but unfortunately the media propaganda and new laws to regulate our existence are multiplying very quickly. It is our new reality.

It really is sad but Jamie is correct. Should that happen, and yes it is only a remote possibility, it could ruin your life.

Its not cis women and you know it , ( I hate the term cis )
It's her husband and his friends and you also know it . Stop the game playing .
I came from the south born and raised, many years back and even I would not go into a place like this because I dress like Janis Joplin and I am now from California . The people who are not from the US have no clue how violent and dangerous the deep south can be . None .

As for Amy , last I looked she was not a sacrificial lamb for "the cause" .. if you want to take that beating go ahead but I doubt you will be willing to pay her hospital or worse bills .
Peace out .

Medical bills, not to mention the LEGAL bills that are almost sure to enter the picture in today's litigious society. Most police, when showing up at a potentially violent situation arrest both parties rather than play judge, jury and executioner. And however innocent, getting a judge to believe you is likely to be VERY expensive. Call me a chicken, but I would be out of there rather than risk "taking hits" for the trans team. I doubt they'd be willing to foot ANY bills of any kind.

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Originally Posted by Dutchess

Its not cis women and you know it , ( I hate the term cis )
It's her husband and his friends and you also know it . Stop the game playing .
I came from the south born and raised, many years back and even I would not go into a place like this because I dress like Janis Joplin and I am now from California . The people who are not from the US have no clue how violent and dangerous the deep south can be . None .

As for Amy , last I looked she was not a sacrificial lamb for "the cause" .. if you want to take that beating go ahead but I doubt you will be willing to pay her hospital or worse bills .
Peace out .

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Duchess is correct. I used to live in Florida and sometimes vacationed in Georgia, Alabama and Mississippi. It can be very dangerous there and feels like going back to the days of Mayberry RFD. I would take the encounter restroom encounter with the GG as a stern warning and would not return.

Agree with Brenda. I always believe in standing your ground, but It is best to back-off and take your money elsewhere if need be.

Using the restroom is a touchy thing...
Bad reactions are inevitable if you give it enough chances to happen.

I agree with standing our ground, but the laws vary from state to state; it's not a nation wide right. And bathrooms are a dangerous place to exercise that right. It's a great privilege but I'd be reluctant to believe very many judges would agree, especially if a genetic woman lodges a complaint that management agrees with.

I agree with Linda. It is very problematic in the southern states where they have passed laws within the past several years that require you to use the bathroom that corresponds to your biological birth sex. I believe that Mississippi is one of those states and if true, the GG that confronted you in the bathroom could have you arrested.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Dutchess

Its not cis women and you know it , ( I hate the term cis )
It's her husband and his friends and you also know it . Stop the game playing .
.

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It's not often I take umbrage with the point of view of a GG on this website, but this is simply ridiculous!
To blame the husband of the woman who acted in a threatening manner in this instance is clearly absurd!
And then to include his friends ... way out weird!
The woman showed that she is bigoted!
All else is mere speculation ...

Excuse me ??? Take umbrage about what ??? You dont , you just want to make something else of my comment . You know what I meant .
Who lived there and grew up there ?? Me or you ??
How on earth am I blaming the husband ???

I am not , what I am saying is that he will back up and defend her if she feels ( or he feels or even perceives) she is in anyway in danger . Just because people do not like this does not mean bigoted .. that's partly what people are sick of in this country ( and everywhere ) .. being called names for not blindly agreeing with something that they do not like .
In this country a husband will take up for and back his wife and you better believe in that area with these types that is exactly what will happen and he will ,in all probability, include some of his male friends in it for fun and no I don't think Kimberly( keep wanting to call her Amy for whatever reason - I guess that makes me a bigot ) should deal with that .. She will be grossly outnumbered .

Take that anyway you like .

Member mode -Was not going to weigh in but I fear I must.

Although I like to educate and stand up for wrong.
You will not educate anyone who is drinking
With things going on now this is dangerous.

I do not see in this situation like someone suggested talking to the woman. Drinking and ill informed people in a bar . Not a good mix.
Time and place
I do try to educate but you really cannot when drinking it involved. Things will just escalate.

Seriously as a GG I dress in gypsy skirts and somehow down south that is threatening lol.
When I was taunted by women ( saying aren’t you special? )and their hubbys big mouths backing them up.
They wanted to know where I was from…..said Canada….then they decided I was from a communist country and all the ignorant comments….
I swear twilight zone !
Making a statement and taking a stand with the drinking is lost cause and they only wanted to fight .
So trying to say ….although not the same …..even myself was confronted by a woman who was drinking …..over nothing who wanted to fight.
I was thereto hear the band :)




Mod hat on
No back and forth
Everyone is trying to help from their life experience…just because you never experienced it count yourself as lucky instead of putting down others .
Edit your post to add
Not having anyone calling another member out.
Give your opinion
Do not make it personal.

Stephanie, I was 100% en femme..... I'm not dumb enough to use the ladies' room in drab! LOL

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LOL You're so right about that, Monica!

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Very good idea, prw..... Probably the best idea yet in this thread. LOL

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Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean

I think some of y'all are underestimating the danger here. You can be right and still get your ass kicked.

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VERY true, Rhonda!

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Ok, I'll reply to just one last one in this thread, since there were SO many replies to my post..... First of all, of course I did see where some of you said that you tend to go to places with single restrooms, (as in, one locking door with one toilet, sink, etc). Well, the bar that I went to doesn't have that. It has the men's and women's restrooms, with several stalls and a couple of sinks. It was rare that I was in the restroom by myself, especially when it was crowded at that bar, so that wasn't an option for me.

Now, I'm replying to Di..... Thank you so much for your kind words and wisdom! :) You are 100% correct, of course. Alcohol and confrontations do NOT mix and do not end well. Tbh, I think when the woman confronted me in the restroom, she'd been drinking quite a bit. Also, about your gipsy skirts..... I was born and raised in Mississippi and while I can't speak for everyone, I'm not one who would judge you for it. Myself, along with I'm sure just about everyone else here says, wear what you're comfortable wearing, screw what other people think! LOL

Expect this to get worse in the red parts of the U.S. I grew up in a rural community in New Zealand. Very conservative. When I used to go out dressed I would still use the mens bathrooms. Not saying that is right, it is just that I felt it would cause less hassle. If I ever go out dressed again, I would still likely use the men's bathrooms unless invited by a GG into the women's restrooms. This should not matter, however I am afraid in the red states it does. I certainly noticed this when I was in the army stationed in various southern states. I remember going to one bar and a guy was wearing a KKK ball cap. Nobody had a problem with that in the bar. The South can be a very different world.

Yes the south is a different world entirely with a lot of good old boys. The best thing to do is avoid bars! Nothing good happens in a bar. Also, if you need to use the restroom find a Starbucks or another establishment that has gender neutral rest rooms. In the South if you are dressed and you use the men's or the women's rest room you are risking a beatdown and potentially putting your life in jeopardy. Be safe out there. It will get much worse as more laws are passed and the politicians get more folks riled-up about transgender issues.

Y'all are too afraid of the "red states" and the "south". You're stereotyping, and you're wrong. I know plenty of good people down here in the deep south that couldn't care less, I know people in the very liberal big cities that think we're all a bunch of freaks who should be shot.

I think it's sad when someone feels the need to retreat from a bully. The woman at the bar was a jerk. I also recognize the need to stay safe, and I understand avoiding a confrontation that's probably only going to land you in jail or the hospital, if not both. Crappy situation. I wasn't there and I'm not you, so my opinion on what to do next is meaningless.

BTW, I've been to very conservative bars and restaurants in FL and NC with a gay couple and a trans-woman, with absolutely zero problems. You want problems? Get on your soapbox and announce to the world why you're equal or better, then you'll have problems. Be just another person, regardless how you're dressed or who you're holding hands with, and you'll have few or no problems. Will you run into a jerk? Yeah, it's possible, and you can't avoid that completely without conforming 100% into "normal", and even then a jerk might single you out for some other reason. Because he or she is a jerk.

So, it seems this was the entire conversation:

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She had walked in just as I was washing my hands and she said,"You know this is the women's room". I said "Yes, I know. All I intend to do is my business, wash my hands and get out". Then she said, "Ok, just wanted to let you know". I said, "Ok". Then, she kinda shot me a dirty look, whipped around and walked out the restroom door.

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To be clear, if this was all that was said after a few years of you going out, I can see why you are alarmed but it isn't unheard of that some woman would say that. Maybe she thought you found yourself in the wrong restroom. Or maybe she just didn't like you being there. If you went to the management, they may or may not side with you, because after all, it is the "woman's" restroom. The potential dangers have been extrapolated out by many in this thread, but nothing negative happened after you exited the restroom in this situation. People can be worried about anything/anywhere but it doesn't stop them from living their lives.

I doubt most women would care that you are there. You know more about living in the south than someone that doesn't live there so you do what you have to do. However, there are other activities than going to a bar. Alcohol sometimes makes people say things they would not otherwise say.

Char makes a good point - I have had similar conversations with a man in the men's room (and I was not wearing a dress - just carrying a purse and wearing my own hair in a chin length bob)

This discussion has brought up some unexpected points. I have to ask, is this the first and only time someone has questioned you about using the ladies room? And in Tupelo, MS while singing karaoke with your evidently masculine singing voice. Frankly, if the environment was so hostile, my guess is the hostility would have manifest itself. The other thing is that looking back on the comment by the woman, she spoke her mind. Though I do not agree with her, I guess she does have the right to speak her mind, just as you do. Taking it to the management was itself an escalation. And I do have to agree with those who observed that there are more, better and potentially safer ways to enjoy the self expression of crossdressing than going to bars.

To the point about the south, and rural America in general, I can attest from personal experience to having NEVER had a bad moment in places as varied as restrooms, restaraunts, shopping centers, museums, auto repair shops, hotels and yes even a few straight bars in north Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas. Not once.