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What do most of you consider "the talk"? I originally thought it was when a CDer had a talk with their SO (maybe for the first time) about being a CDer.
However, several times, I have seen where some of you write that your SO knows, is accepting, but you haven't had "the talk". Am I missing something? Please explain.
Char, i think you have defined The Talk pretty well. Of course, one hopes there might be subsequent conversations. Maybe some mis-apply the term ‘acceptance’. Grudgingly tolerant (not ending the relationship) might in some minds represent the lowest level of acceptance.
From the examples I have seen, it seems to be a situation where the CDer suspects that his wife is aware of what's happening in her back, generally after a few mishaps on the CDer's part, but the she chooses to not broach the subject on her own initiative. Some kind of DADT that hasn't been formally discussed. There are even examples where the wife clearly spots her husband dressed but leaves the scene and doesn't talk about it. Since the second shoe didn't hit the floor, the CDer is left wondering if he can ignore it too and continue like nothing happened (denial can go a long way in the CDing tribe), entering a gray DADT zone, or if something is hanging there that needs to be addressed with The Talk.
For me (and I'm still new) it's that I mentioned it to my wife on a car journey and it slightly built from there and we have occasional lighthearted short chats or have fun at RuPaul, Strictly Come Dancing outfits, etc and I occasionally ask something like dressing in a nightie to bed or joke about things. Or she'll come home and make lighthearted comments about her dinner not being ready as I'm the "wife" (she's really not serious about that though it's fine by me right now).
But we've not had a serious sit down and talk things through, where I *think* I want to go with it, what she can't cope with, etc. So, nothing structured and detailed and serious.
HTH,
Sam
Is the talk with the wife anything like the dreaded LOOK we receive from our wives? lol
I can only speak on my situation but if she wants to talk we will and I will answer her as honestly as I can. I do it this way because I won?t overload her with information about her husband that she might not want to know. I know my wife better than anyone after 30 years of marriage and if she wants to talk we will. Until then we will just keep on living our lives the way we have been.
Nice thread, Char. I am equally confused when a number of dressers here refer to the "talk" but their SO's already know they dress.:eek:
Maybe we should call the one, "the talk" and all the others, "a talk"?:thumbsup:
Now, let's define what DADT means, too?:doh:
I would guess having the talk could have several different levels.
1 The SO has no idea and its all new.
2 The setting or alteration of boundaries.
3 Have you decided or are contemplating transition.
I am sure there maybe more options.
I think that "the talk" comes any time that there is a new development. As an example, you could have 5 talks:
The talk #1 being the first admission
The talk #2 being setting boundaries
The talk #3 being escalation to going outside
The talk #4 being to sharing with family
The talk #5 being transition
I guess as far as "the talk", that's it. In my case that never happened because she knew from the time we got together as teenagers. I was never NOT a crossdresser, although neither one of us had a name for it back then.
Thing is, the talk is a moment. Knowing how to navigate the next however many years is more important. I was WAY out in the open with her, or so I thought. Given perspective on it, I wasn't. Communication dwindled at approximately the same rate as her acceptance. I can't tell anybody how communicate, but I'm an expert on how not to.
I always considered "the talk" to be when I first told my wife I liked to CD. However, I could see having "another talk" in the future. Right now she's fine with me dressing all I want at home; but, she prefers I don't use makeup and wear a wig. She's seen me with full makeup and a wig on several occasions; but, not often. I would like to approach her about wearing makeup and a wig whenever I want. However, I know that if she acquiesced on that, I'd be in makeup and wearing a wig every evening. Since I know she's not a fan, I don't want to overdo it. And, knowing myself as I do, if she said "go ahead" I'd likely not be able to restrain myself. Bottom line, we've had "the talk" and maybe we will have "another talk" sometime in the future. And, maybe we won't.
BTW, she has seen me leave home fully en femme on several occasions when attending Pride events. We had no talks about it other than I simply asked her if she'd have an objection if I attended dressed en femme. She said it wasn't a problem.
I have tried to approach the subject on many occasions with my wife, but it’s as if she knows but doesn’t want to acknowledge it. She accepts me wearing bras and panties, but always changes the subject when I attempt to bring it up.
Well, it seems to me that "The talk" isn't needed if the SO already knows, but it's almost certain that there will be a lot of "A talk" opportunities afterward.
Now, if the SO is still unaware of something (I'm thinking of transitioning, I want to go on hormones, I have a secret life you don't know about, etc.) -
then there can certainly be another "the talk", about that subject.
I guess the difference between "a talk" and "the talk" is the magnitude of the discussion - and maybe an introduction of something new to the relationship.
There is that period of time after she knows you crossdress but you haven’t discussed the full extent of the dressing, or desire to dress, or boundaries. It can be difficult to have this talk if she is repulsed by it and doesn’t want to to talk about it.
I would hope "The Talk" is an ongoing dialog about comfort levels, acceptance, and boundaries. And it should go both ways.
Lets just say I have a very workable DA/DT And leave it at That,
I cannot speak for others, but when I use the term "The Talk" it relates to the first conversation my wife and I had about my cross dressing. That conversation, as many others have stated, centered on sexuality or sexual identity other than straight male. I think there must be an element of confrontation and deep questioning.
I think it is possible for a husband to fully engaged with his cross dressing without having that sit-down with his wife to discuss 'What the hell is this all about?" In order to have a conversation you need two people to be engaged; i.e., moving their lips. IMHO, "The Talk" does not exist when the husband declares a "Take or Leave" attitude; nor when a wife berates her husband and leave not opportunity for him to respond.
I've noticed on many threads over the years that as time passes, most relationships evolve, and desires and agreed upon boundaries change. What used to be acceptable on the day of the talk, may not be on day 365. He may want to increase the frequency of dressing beyond what was agreed to. He may want to add MANY new aspects, e.g., wigs, breast forms, etc., that had been agreed to be left out of the activity. She may simply realize that she couldn't handle things as well as she thought. I think the scenario of: "You asked for and inch and I gave it to you; now you've taken a mile!" needs to be avoided at all costs. Sadly, I think many members ask for that inch with full intentions of taking that mile. Any changes need to be discussed in advance, but I seldom read about such discussions on the forum. Priorities can change, or be undefined and haphazard from the very beginning. I seem to be seeing that a lot of that recently, and I worry about those members.
Communication can be complex, and successful communication depends on many variables. Such as desire to communicate, desire to be complete and honest, and avoiding lying by omission at all cost. It seems very common for the priority of maintaining the relationship vs the priority of being an active crossdresser is often very confused or even unknown, especially at the beginning. And I think that is why so many genetic women are so reluctant to just be "accepting, participating, anything is okay, he's just being himself" partners. Quite a juggle of priorities, communication, and above all, HONESTY.
Those are my observations and thoughts as succinctly as I can describe them. Not trying to be judgemental or offensive to anyone.
AFTERTHOUGHT:
Sadly, I've seen cases on here where someone went from an agreed upon DADT situation to "my desired frequency has increased and I don't care if it's now in her face", and some other members ADVISE them to sacrifice their marriage/relationship in favor of increasing the level and frequency of dressing. And I just find that very sad.
Very well said Linda, and I agree.
I had "the talk" the first time I wore more than just a skirt in front of her. But later we had expansions of "the talk" after minor escalations, eg. the toe ring the anklet each made her wonder if she had missed something the first time.
I initiated our ?talk? shortly after we got engaged. For me, it was necessary to be honest, with no secrets. Long story, short. When the big moment came and I told her, expecting her to run, I was surprised and pleased that she kinda knew. Female ESP, I guess. We had many talks, mostly clarifications, like history, gay, bi, trans, etc. After these items were thoroughly discussed, I was astounded by her ?no big deal? acceptance, with one condition. Don?t wear any of her things. Agreed. For my birthday, she bought me panties, pantyhose and some makeup. We went bra shopping too. Looking back, it was the best thing I ever did. Her support and help has been and continues to be amazing. Now retired, I?m free to and do dress daily.
I made some significant progress with my wife yesterday. After showering, I emerged from the bathroom wearing only my bra and panties. I asked her if this was too “girly” for her and she responded that if I was comfortable with it she was too. This is the first time she has openly acknowledged my preference for feminine attire and reassured me of her approval. I’’ll take it as a win and not push the boundaries any further for now.
Everybody wants to user their own definition, because "everybody's entitled to their own opinion...", yada, yada, yada. Conventionally, (at least in the context of this forum), "the talk" is all about that first reveal to one's SO.
Or you may read the title of the thread again, yada, yada. Reveal has already happened, just not on the CDers initiative.
I agree with Aunt Kelly. That is my definition too.
A great question, char.
Personally, I agree that "The Talk" tends to be the original reveal to one's spouse about their dressing. I suppose that such a "talk" may occur several times as the topic is shared with children, parents, friends, co-workers, others?
I would believe it to be rather rare that everything can be covered and resolved after the initial "talk" so there seemingly - invariably? - tends to be more talk. Maybe after that it could be referred to as another piece of "the conversation" for clarification, for request of new boundaries from either partner, other variables discussed. Perhaps that "conversation" continues for years until both parties have found their personal levels of acceptance on the topic as well as accepted their partner's level of acceptance.
Interesting to note is it feels as if the conversation could take much of a lifetime for some. For my wife and I things have been rather settled for quite many a year yet, as we see retirement on the not-so-distant horizon, there may be a re-opening of the conversation to reset boundaries and preferences. That part is likely an entirely different post.
Very interesting and relevant topic.
I had "the talk" before we were married and we then engaged in cd discussions for a few years.
Then work, kids, stress intervened and we went DADT for decades.
We're both retired now so, fortunately, we have reached a modest balance in which I dress while she's working in her office.
Pleased and grateful for this real progress.
I want more, as I enjoy talking about my clothes and outfits, but am very anxious to bring up any other cd topics.
I don't think my wife wants to talk more about it and usually shuts me down pretty abruptly when I bring up the topic.
She has left it up to me to be myself, to the extent I am comfortable.
Yes, complicated...
I think this is spot on. I am at 2.5 talk now.Quote:
Originally Posted by CharlotteCD
For some of us, there have been many many "talks" along the way, some moved the situation forward, some moved it back.
To me, having "The Talk" mostly means the initial conversation, or the gender reveal if you will ;)
This is the first time there is an actual conversation about him wanting to sometimes be a little girly, whatever that means to the individual. The outcome of that talk all depending on how it goes and there will likely be many more Talks to come as time goes by. A lot depends on how the wife/gf reacts to the initial reveal, and on what her general thoughts on gender is and how accepting she is to blurring the lines.
To reply to Char's original question, I am guessing that when people here say the wife/gf knows, but they are yet to have The Talk, it means that she might have seen something, maybe something has been hinted, maybe she is under the perception that he was just fooling around or making fun or something, but the fact that this has a much deeper meaning to him has not yet been talked about.
This is the conversation that might be very emotional for both and that can potentially ruin the relationship, or for the lucky ones, it can be managed and lead to an even stronger union.
For me, there have been many talks, including the initial one. I told her about this oddity in me already a couple of weeks after we started dating. I didn't know what it actually meant to me when we had the first talks, and over the years the Talks went from casual to very deep.
I never felt I needed to be full time or transition, not at all, but I didn't realize early on how important the dressing actually was to me. As I figured that out, and as she started feeling I got to be a little too good at it, her attitude changed from curiosity, over acceptance, to tolerance, to DADT, to what can now best be described as total denial. It seems like she has completely erased any knowledge she ever had of this part of me, and that even the thought of something like that being part of what makes me me, is just utterly disgusting to her.
So in some ways, I feel we are in a situation where she knows, but we would need to start over with The Talk.
As much as I would like to, I have no intention of bringing it up again, and after 10 years of silence on the topic, I have given up hope that she ever will.
As the saying goes, you can't have it all.