Men do, women don't..

... get a thrill out of wearing the opposite sex's clothing?

In another thread, Docrobbysherry made the comment:

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I've yet to hear of a woman who was turned on wearing men's things!

And, very few, if any, men who weren't at one time or another when dressing in women's!

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and it got me thinking, but I didn't want to hijack that thread.
So - I'll start a new one.

---I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.---

Like Doc said, there is a "thrill" factor involved when men dress femme, that doesn't seem to be there when women dress drab.
"Why is that?", I wondered. Then it hit me.

Maybe - just maybe, it's because of the "built in" social concept of feminine beauty and desirability.

Don't we (as born-male) people dress up because we want(at least in part) to be, feel, or at least look more desirable? let's face it, men's clothing isn't really designed to look or feel sexy. What better way to feel that tingle than to try to look like what you like?

Do (born-female) people get tired of all the looks, comments, and pressure to always be attractive?
Maybe they don't want to be a turn-on for every pair of men's eyes.
So- what to wear that won't be an enticement? Let's face it. Even women's tee shirts and jeans usually are shaped to flatter or enhance their form.

What better way to escape the sex-you-up fashion trend than to put on a baggy men's shirt or some shapeless jeans?
Maybe GG's wear them (in part?) because they AREN'T a turn on - and maybe even a "turn-it-off" for a bit"?

What say you? GG's I'd like to hear your thoughts too!

Sara

I agree in part about what you are saying, but I partly think because women can wear clothes similar to mens styles as the norm, but men wearing female styles is against the norm in society, so maybe the thrill partly comes from it being a little taboo, it's only thought.

I agree Julie.

Where's the thrill in wearing things that are rough, plain, bulky and drab? Alot of women's clothing are designed or marketed to enhance(?) women's physical assets ... to be sexy. Think about it ... when was the last time you saw mens boxers marketed as "sexy". When a guy goes on a first date, he might put on a clean polo. Women might have a server set of underwear, wear a top that shows a little more cleavage or a higher hem line. They may struggle deciding between 2 or 3 different outfits.

So back to the original question ... Men get a sexual thrill out of women's clothing, even if they're not wearing them (or have any interest to do so). What's to get excited about men's clothing (for anybody)

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Originally Posted by Julie Frisky

I agree in part about what you are saying, but I partly think because women can wear clothes similar to mens styles as the norm, but men wearing female styles is against the norm in society, so maybe the thrill partly comes from it being a little taboo, it's only thought.

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I tend to agree. Women have a green light to dress as they wish, none of the taboos that exist for men. A woman can put on a man's suit and have it called chic.

Forbidden fruit.
It is acceptable for women to wear jeans and/or flannel shirts, but men have been told all their lives that women's clothes and playing with dolls or playing girls games are a big no no.

I consider the idea of "Forbidden Fruit", that is, boys being prohibited from wearing women's clothes and playing with dolls or playing girls games, as a form of child abuse. Mercifully I was spared from it.
My mother taught me how to cook and how to apply lipstick. And my paternal grandmother taught me how to apply nail polish.
I have gotten virtually no pushback from wearing dresses, even at church. So I believe men's inhibitions of wearing feminine attire are mostly in their heads.
And why are men's "fashions" so dull and dreary? There was the "Great Male Renunciation" starting around 1750 where men's fashions became utilitarian and prosaic.

John

Im with Claire on this. Mens clothes are so blaaa. Women?s can be so dramatic and eye catching they draw us in - As they should I guess.

Knowing full well I’m a man observing women from the outside, I would say women get much more excitement out of women’s clothing than both men and women get out of men’s style clothing and general appearance. I’d agree that getting dressed day to day in gender normative clothing isn’t sexual for anyone but that special opportunity to look good has a sexual component for many people.

I've said this before. I don't wear "men's clothes". I wear women's clothes that made to fit women, from the women's department, whether it's jeans or whatever. I don't wear "lumberjack" clothes either.

If you find men's clothes boring, then you aren't looking for men's clothes that are attractive. Where I work, I see men wearing the most awesome "men's" clothes. Sequin, colorful, flowered, or embroidered shirts, shiny and or nicely fitted pants, shoes with embellishments, or chunky heels. Women are attracted to men wearing clothes that enhance their masculinity. I realize that doesn't make a difference to those on this forum who just like to wear women's clothes.

Women are not "turned on" by wearing underwear or dresses. Many don't want attention (unless clubbing or something) for what they are wearing. It's no wonder those that just want to be left alone and fly under the radar. A pretty 20's something lady just wants to live their life like a 20 something guy does. Many younger women want to be acknowledged for their brains.
If you want to wear women's clothes, so be it. Do it. Don't try to justify it. That's just wear what you want.

All I can say is, "Great minds think alike", SaraLin!:thumbsup:

My only add is; You've explained perfectly why I prefer to dress drab rather than "dress to blend"!:doh:

The best fitting jeans I ware are a pair from Gloria Vanderbilt. Still working on the best top to complement my bra and breast forms.

Well , women( mostly) aren't attempting to be men...I don't actually know anyone who wears male clothing. I never have . While the demographics of this forum are somewhat older, I see a alot of naivety here and alot of sexual inexperience too and I think it's both of those things.. for some of these men it's the hottest most edgiest thing they've ever done .. and for somebody like me it's nothing.

I feel bad for some of you all, some of your lives must have been very very repressive.

Men don't cat call me they know better... even in public . I present a certain way, they know better. I had a 24 year old man, good looking guy too,an RN ,chat me up at the store a couple weeks ago and asked me out on a date ... He also did not ask me for my number, he knew that I wouldn't want to do that so instead he gave me his number and told me just to hang on to it and text him or call him if I ever felt like it. We were in a very long line and we're able to talk for about an hour. This is the third young person in their twenties that's done that with me in the past couple of years.
Most men tend to treat me like this very gentlemanly, with a lot of manners.


There are absolutely men's clothing made of silk ,satin, all kinds of beautiful materials and patterns. Jacquards , paisleys ,florals of all kinds velvets ,all colors all cuts.
There's a silver Paisley ,oh my God!!!!! it's silver and aqua Paisley down on the boulevard it is this beautiful silk and satin suit!!! oh I wished I had a boyfriend!!!! I would dress him up in that and we would just party all night long... hahahaha
Oh well lol
You all just don't want to wear them- that's the truth of it bc you ( I am not talking to Sara or anyone in particular ) don't get off on those like you do the women's clothing. Char is right, the justification here is some of the most epic I have ever witnessed ..

The men here in LA/Orange county /Inland Empire / SanDiego - SOCAL wear all kinds of extremely chic expensive things and look out of this world good .. I mean fine .. Very very hot .. I guess they missed the memo they shouldn't wear such things .. ( or cry or laugh or like the color pink , buy fresh flowers ?? and other things I read here that you all cant do here dressed as males )

Ok, guys, try this. Get yourself a really nice looking suit, a couple of nice ties and dress shirts and some new shoes. Buy yourself a fedora to top it off. Get dressed up in this stuff, and go someplace where there are a lot of women. Walk around for a while and check out the women's reactions. You'll get a lot of attention. Women like sharp-looking men's clothing. Or as ZZ Top said "Every girl crazy ’bout a sharp-dressed man."

Men's clothing isn't boring unless you want it to be.

Wow, Duchess! U touched a lot of buttons!:eek:

I've never even thot about wearing flashy, gay, or androgenous men's clothes except at Halloween before I began CDing. Why? I never thot about this until now, but I guess because I don't want to look like a swishy man? But, I'm ok with being seen as a MIAD, rite? No, I can't explain that either!:tongueout

And, u mentioned how gentlemanly men r with u. Which remended me that I've been hit on by maybe a dozen men in person. And, every single man acted gentlemanly, even drunk. Most were under 45 I'd guess?
Yet, so many posts here r warning dressers to be very careful when out and about. Good advice I agree.:thumbsup:
Even tho my experiences in clubs and bars across the country have not been problematic at all!:battingeyelashes:

just a point ive seen....i attended pflag support group in my area.
long skirts. no heels it wasn't practical....gave up counting at say 75 female to male folks, maybe 10 FTM identities....i thought who wouldn't want to be a pretty girl :eek:
any way ive never asked any if it made them feel sexy but they described it as they feel right.

nowadays im out twice a week doing volunteer gigs, flared pants make my feet look smaller....tops that hide my diabetic belly.

when i first got here flashy heels and skirts posted in the gallery with tons of compliments.

now when i post at an event its pretty practical, flats, jeans and a nice top and hardly anyone will post on those types of looks, not really sure ive made my point?

so truthfully if you saw my pinterest account you would say total diva....a glamazon as i call myself but its hard and unpractical.

i volunteer at a thrift store near asbury nj and we do get some very nice donations but ive never seen any as flashy that some have described here.

and with all i do i still live a male life and still find some very nice shirts to take home and wear to work.
of course the percentage of male to female findings tilts way to the F side....

All of you are right and I'll add also a bit of my thoughts.

Let's be frank here: men's bodies aren't sexy. They might be well built and that making them attractive to women, but in general men's bodies aren't sexy. They weren't designed like that. They are supposed to be strong for survival and that's what made them desirable in the past (hunters gatherers society).

On the other hand women's bodies are sexy, because they needed to attract men.

And even as people and our society evolved these basics are still ingrained in our brains, even if we don't realize it. And that's why most female clothing are made to make women look "sexy", or better said to enhance their qualities, but men's clothing are made primarily to make them look bigger.

And you have take into account also simple way of doing things just out of "habit". That's why female clothes still have buttons and zippers made in a way that their maid can close them more comfortably.

I think a lot of men are thrilled to dress up because it goes against all the expected social norms. The only time you hear a boy being called pretty , is when one is referring to a budgie.If somebody called me sexy in male mode I would think it was a wind up. Everyone has different perceptions.

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Originally Posted by CynthiaD

as ZZ Top said "Every girl crazy ?bout a sharp-dressed man."

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As my wife said ? every man looks good in a tux?.(send a pic from friends wedding) wow you do not look good in a tux!?
My build is a near perfect wide rectangle. It?s like draping a suit an a cinder block. While I may not look good as a woman, shape wear and clothes with structure are fun to play with.

The general consensus here seems to be that men's clothes (and bodies) are not sexy, but that women's are. Such a male view. Which is understandable, but how about if we broaden our minds (no pun intended)?

First, ask the GGs if there can be anything sexy about a man's body. When I saw Brad Pitt's abs in "Fight Club," I was envious. Or Chris Hemsworth as Thor. Even if I worked with their trainers, I would have little hope of looking that good.

But can we really make a blanket statement that women's bodies are inherently sexy? Every straight man knows which female body types he finds attractive, and there is a lot of overlap among males. This is why Jenny McCarthy could be in Playboy while her cousin, Melissa McCarthy, could not. But everyone should be honest and admit there are body types they do not find attractive. (I have realized, though, that any woman - of any size - can find at least a few admirers in the male population.)

Now when it comes to clothing, here too we need to expand our thinking. I think it is true that more women's clothes are designed to accentuate the body than men's, but again there can be no blanket statements.

As a senior, when I go out, I am looking to blend in, not stand out, and to be comfortable. Thus, I will wear capris or plain skirts with simple tops and sneakers - utilitarian, not sexy (still thrilling, but not in a sexual way). The dresses I own are nice looking, but I consequently don't wear them as often outside, especially when I am just going to the Target or the strip mall. So for women, there are plenty of clothes that might be classified gender-specific, but not sexy.

As for men's clothing, I appreciate that char GG and Dutchess describe some that can be considered attractive. I want to add another sort as well. In 1990, a documentary called "Paris Is Burning" came out about the vogue/ball culture of New York in the 1980s. Much of the movie was focused on drag queens with their gowns, wigs, makeup, etc. But there was a small segment that introduced me to the concept of drag kings. Yes, that is what you think it is; I don't even need to explain. As I recall, all of the ones shown at these balls wore uniforms. I think we all know that many women find men in uniform (military, police, firefighter) attractive. So there you go - another type of men's clothing that has sex appeal.

And as small as the population of crossdressers is in the male population, I would guess there is an even thinner population of CDs among females - but they do exist.

I don't need a large quantity of males " hitting" on me in some bar.

That's not me. I prefer quality over quantity any day. At our age, attracting herds of males of any age would tell me that I am not putting myself out there correctly. This time I did not show a video of the clothing either I merely talked about it and right away I get insulted for it even just in words.

No you never thought about being a swishy man because you're wearing a latex suit in public I guess. I don't know.
You do your thing and I'll do mine.

Whether it be male or female clothing I always want to look "nice, clean and attractive." A guy should not look like a slob if there is no reason to look like "Pigpen" of the "Peanuts" comic strip. I feel very comfortable in a filthy tee shirt and jeans with sweat dripping of my brow as I dig a hole in the backyard. When I was still working in a professional office environment I never wore a white dress shirt. I expressed myself with colors and ties. Many times professional visitors took me for the boss because the boss was not dressed professionally. As a retire it's a lot of graphic tee shirts that get a lot of smiles and may give rise to a conversation.

In my early puberty days there was a sexual component to wearing my mother's attire, but self gratification with a copy of Playboy magazine would be any different? I suppose anybody would run the risk of only being stimulated sexually by only one thing. I do not get sexually excited by male attire and never have. I am long past getting sexually stimulated by female attire on my body. If anybody cares about sexual stimulation there are plenty of on-line article concerning self-stimulation, male and female.

I do agree, I have never encountered a woman who said she was stimulated when wearing male attire. The females in my family have/do wear male attire because of functionality and price, e.g. slim jeans for guys and flannel shirts.

Interesting responses, everyone. Thank you for that. Differing ideas always give me more food for thought.


Char, while I think you were disagreeing with me, this snippet is sort of what I was trying to say:

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Originally Posted by char GG

Women are not "turned on" by wearing underwear or dresses. Many don't want attention (unless clubbing or something) for what they are wearing. It's no wonder those that just want to be left alone and fly under the radar. A pretty 20's something lady just wants to live their life like a 20 something guy does.

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CD males have their reasons for dressing femme.
I tend to believe that GG ladies who wear men's things have entirely different reasons.
I'm just wondering if trying to NOT attract attention, particularly from men, might be one factor.

As a younger male I wore a boiler suit to work but went out in a suit of a different kind. With beautiful shirts of chiffon and silk
When I got married things changed and I was no longer the smartly dressed male. Just tidy and un-noticeable.

I don't do dreary anymore.
Anytime I go out I dress for me and I like to think I do it with style.
I think I blend in but there again I do stand out because so many GG's dress so casual. Tidy but not really noticeable.
Today I went to a restaurant in a black pantsuit and had a patron (GG) remark to me that I looked very elegant.
This made my day.
(Sometimes I just wish I could take a decent photograph.)
The pantsuit was from Temu which was even better in my eyes for the compliment as it only cost me $20 AU.
When we went to order food one of my companions said she wished she had dressed up. Maybe I am having a positive influence here.

Ws've got a long way to go to get the Bubble in the Middle.

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Originally Posted by Dutchess

I don't need a large quantity of males " hitting" on me in some bar.

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Geez, I know what you mean and ditto. For some reason I've been a backyard bug light for gay men and jewish women the latter of which I rather enjoyed. The gay men part, not so much except being admired and desired is, I'll have to say, pleasant. Getting back to the OP, I do have a longtime online friend who has married a wonderful GG that enjoys and truly gets turned on by assuming the traditional conceived male dynamic, with associated tactile accoutrements, as enhancements. Sort of a TG ying and yang that many of us have determined will never happen. As far as I've been informed, there is a mutual elevated erotic experience with the role reversal.
But, one of the primary rules of logic is that the particular does not validate the general so yes, it is a rare occurrence.
We are truly wired different. I heard something long ago that males are driven to provide, protect and cast their genetics into the future whereas females seek security and protection as they nurture.

Males provide, females procreate.

But, in the cave men days, there was a hunter/gatherer dynamic. Men needed to see objects (prey) that moved so they could hunt and survive. Women need to see objects that didn't move (berries) so they could gather and survive. That's why men can't find their shoes right in front of them. LOL.

I am reminded about a seinfeld episode where the woman he was dating walks into the living room naked and goes about her business naked. He tried that. I think he was going to repair some loose board or something and she right away called him out. Why are you naked? In the end, the episode concluded women's bodies were more designed for displaying, and men's bodies are more utilitarian.
I think this falls in line with the fact that women typically are the ones to use their looks to attract a mate which follows through for most species. Add to that how visually stimulated men can be as opposed to women.
I think men see that power women have just from how they look and want a piece of it. At least the men here want a piece of it. We want a piece of that power women have just with their looks.
When I started dressing and Going Out years ago I got quite a lot of attention. Special privileges at clubs. There was plenty of ppositive reinforcement that what I was doing was special. And I like that feeling.
I did not necessarily set out to be a woman when all of this started. I was curious about walking in heels. I was also curious about female impersonators. That's what they were called back in the late eighties. Now it's becoming more common and accepted and less of a exclusive thing. It's almost causing it to lose some of it's lustre. For me now it just feels so natural. I couldn't see myself any other way.

As for womens clothes, they got it made, and women don't want to wear them. In most cases I am able to move freely and stay cooler unlike mens clothes, most womens clothes are not rough like mens clothes either.
Mens pants, jeans are the worst, no stretch or give at all. Womens clothes move with you, mens clothes don't. Yikes, there are those of us that aren't wearing womens clothes to 'get off'....

Women don't dress for men, they dress for other women as in competitive type of thing. The old Al Bundy quote "Don't try to understand women, women understand women and they hate each other."

@ Britney.

It is a male myth that women dress to compete with other women. They dress for themselves.

And women don't hate each other. They are each other's biggest support group.

One more thing, if you are buying men's pants that "don't stretch or give at all", you are not looking at the right pants. Many men's pants have "stretch" in them now. That's the only kind of pants that my hubby buys.

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Originally Posted by char GG

It is a male myth that women dress to compete with other women. They dress for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Genifer Teal

...women typically are the ones to use their looks to attract a mate...

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I'm curious that char GG has formed this opinion, as I would go along with Genifer's take on it. I'm defining 'looks' to include clothing, make-up, physical appearance, as well as clothes.

I think plenty of women are highly competitive, when it comes to their appearance. Why else would some women dress so uncomfortably? Who would wear high heels for comfort and practicality? Who would wear constrictive shapewear or a corset? A garter belt instead of hose? Mascara and foundation in summer?

Why they choose to inflict this on themselves is open for discussion, but IMO if not to attract a mate by excelling over the competition, then why?

Different situations call for different decisions. Have to disagree with much of what Duchess says, but respect her views all the same. I have the man from Delmonte suit in my wardrobe and I love to wear it, on the right occasion, I will strut like a Peacock and enjoy every moment of it. Going to the Theta or a show comes to mind. Yet there is so much I'm not supposed to wear that I also enjoy. I'm not a typical male, Like so many here, I have a large part of me that is naturally feminine. I need to express that or my life would be so much less.

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It is a male myth that women dress to compete with other women. They dress for themselves.

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I searched for your claim of that alleged male myth, I am unable to find any thing that would back that. However they do dress for other woman, ( and themselves ) as I mention below about certain sources.

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And women don't hate each other. They are each other's biggest support group.

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I did find act aggressive towards one another though. Bustle, yahoo, and vogue agree with me mostly, as well as your claim of women allegedly not hating each other.

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One more thing, if you are buying men's pants that "don't stretch or give at all", you are not looking at the right pants. Many men's pants have "stretch" in them now. That's the only kind of pants that my hubby buys.

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I would look in to these pants. However until mens clothes comes up to par with womens clothes, the mens side will be passed on in most cases. I want colorful ( pinks and purples ) cute tops, midi, maxi skirts, dresses midi, maxi too.

If you side with the evolutionary psychologists....I tend to but with some reservations...womens bodies were designed to indicated their ability to procreate...wide hips to accommodate passage through the brith canal...permanently enlarged breasts (the only mammal to have them, by the way...to indicated ability to nurse an infant and continue the genetic line. On a very primal level...not saying there is necessarily conscious decision on anyones part...womens clothing is designed to accentuate these features. Although, that having been said evolutionary psychologists haven't come up with an explanation for heterosexual crossdressing (or fro same sex relationships for that matter)

I'd say that anyone who disagrees with what char GG or Dutchess put forth needs to put in some serious introspection time before hitting the submit button.

Why is so hard for many male crossdressers to admit they are compelled to wear woman's clothes because they are: women's clothes. All the talk about fabrics, designs, colors, stretch, body shape and more is just superficial noise and nonsense. In other words, they're rationalizations for a desire we don't really begin to (and probably will never) understand.

Britney,
You search for evidence of my claim on the internet? Oh my!

Well, I don?t need internet proof, I live it every day.

But of course, you are certainly welcome to believe whatever you want. Research all you want.

Char

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You search for evidence of my claim on the internet? Oh my!

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Your claim of it's a "male myth" didn't make any sense. I like to verify by studies, and evidence. You want source links let me know.

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Well, I don?t need internet proof, I live it every day.

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Then you are very lucky to have that support, that doesn't mean they all support one another.

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But of course, you are certainly welcome to believe whatever you want. Research all you want.

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I'm not believing what I want. I am going by research, and studies.

Okay, hold onto your hats, because most don't want to know this, and have routinely ignored my posts that have this information in them. Read this while it's here, because I'm pretty sure it ruffles feathers and will be edited or deleted. If you think any of this is wrong, study psychology, like I have. And no, I didn't keep a list of references for everyone to fact check, because others have written all this information in THEIR books, so it would simply be plagiarizing their works. I learned psychology to figure myself out, and managed to do that. You can do that too, but most are afraid of what they will find, so they pretend that no one knows why they like to wear frilly cute girl clothes and dream about being a beauty pageant winner, admired for well, just being oh-so beautiful. So take from this what you will, or forget about it if it makes you uncomfortable. Go back to not knowing why you want to dress up. Most are happy believing that there's 'no reason' to do it, that it's all just a mystery. It's not. But most cannot accept the reasons they find.

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Originally Posted by char GG

And women don't hate each other. They are each other's biggest support group.

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And yet, a woman will see another, prettier/younger women come into the venue, and automatically say disparaging comments about the newcomer, without knowing anything about her, other than how she looks. This is rooted in mating behavior, where a 'new' female becomes available, and males automatically find her more attractive than the female who he has already mated with. Males are genetically 'wired' to want to mate with as many different women as possible. This is one thing which has kept the human race going; maximizing the different genetic combinations among the individuals, eventually creating some more durable, stronger, smarter ones; it's evolution at work.

It has been observed many times, where a man who is currently the mate of an extremely beautiful woman, yet strays towards a 'new' less attractive woman, finding her more attractive 'for some reason'. The reason is obvious, but no one really wants to admit it: He's attracted to her for that very reason, because she's different. 'New' woman tops 'previous' woman in desire every time. Women hate that idea, because there's no way to compete with 'new' woman; oh, they try, change their hair style/color, wear new outfits, new make up, etc., but their men know the truth; they aren't 'new' woman. Examples? Hugh Grant, out on Sunset Boulevard looking for 'girls for hire', while he has Elizabeth Hurley waiting for him at home. Bruce Springsteen choosing a rather plain female musician, while he had Julianne Phillips at home. Prince Charles having affairs when he has Diana at home. The list goes on and on, of men who choose a supposedly less attractive newcomer rather than go home to his wife. New, beats old, every time the option is there.

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Originally Posted by Taylor186

Why is so hard for many male crossdressers to admit they are compelled to wear woman's clothes because they are: women's clothes.

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Because they cannot accept anything which might indicate that they aren't 'real' men. Over and over, you can find thousands of instances of males here talking about themselves in third person, as if it's 'not really themselves'. Or referring to themselves with a female name, desperately trying to distance themselves from the feminine behavior and personality traits, because, again, they cannot accept that they aren't actually the 'all male, all the time' MANLY man that they feel they have to be. Why? Because we are brought up that way. We are (well most of us anyway) brought up to believe that we must be MEN, never cry, never back down, never care, never have any of what we are told are silly, feminine feelings. Have compassion? Oh, never. Kill the opponent No mercy. Show feelings for an injured one? Oh, you're SOFT, not enough of a man. Be sad about the loss of someone you love? Feel like crying? OH, no can't do that. It's not manly. Hide away those feelings. Had a setback? Fail at something? Feel the tears starting? STOP THAT! Boys don't cry. MAN UP!!!
Never disappoint anyone. Sure, sure, many women will tell us it's okay, but many aren't okay with it at all. They expect us to be their strong, stable, rock that they can always lean on when things go wrong in their life. They tell us that we should be more sensitive. But can we really? No. What they mean, is that they want us to be more sensitive to THEIR problems, not have problems of our own. A guy with problems who shows his emotions, is no longer considered a desirable man; he's 'weak'. Men are supposed to be in control of our feelings at all times. Men are never loved unconditionally (except by his mother). We are loved for what we can do for our women, what we can do for our children. But that's it; it's very dependent on our ability to provide and protect. Without that, we are told, we aren't worth respect. Get divorced? Lose your job, and cannot pay that alimony/chlls support? You go to jail. Do women go to jail if they're rotten mothers? Of course not. They are allowed to be out of control of their emotions, and deserve help. Men? We're on our own. Our worth to society has always been obvious; we are the disposable ones. 'Women and children first'. Men? Just dumped over the side. Poor nutrition in the low income areas? Oh, we have WIC, the Women Infants Children program of food stamps for those people. Any Men food stamp programs? Nah.

So many of us simply cannot accept that we are feminine, because our society sees us as weak, and less of a man because of it. There's lots more, but the vast majority of men simply don't want to have to face, that they are not the manliest man that they should be. So we see it right here on this forum over and over, that they hide behind 'OH, Zelda (his CD name) isn't the REAL me, it's just my feminine side. I don't really want to kiss or have sex with a man, that's just Zelda. It's 'not the real me. And I only do it when I'm dressed as a woman, so I'm not really gay. I'm just an absolutely straight man who sometimes acts like I'm female. Yes, it's just an act, and I just love to act that way. But it's not really me.'.
This will continue, because despite all the supposed acceptance in a very few western societies, there is still quite a stigma towards males who dress / behave / feel emotions like females. Coaches, bosses, drill sergeants, still use female terms as insults in order to push males to 'man up', do things that they want done that the subject of scorn seems not willing to work hard enough to accomplish.
It's still not acceptable to most of our society, for a man to be like a woman. As one man put it, 'My wife and daughters would rather see me die on my white horse, than fall down from it'. Women got liberated, but most still insist that their men be traditional men when they want us to be (but we're not allowed to insist on the reverse, now, are we?). We are still the ones to go see what the noise is downstairs at 2 a.m.. We are still the ones out there (about 99%) taking the dangerous, physically difficult construction jobs. How many high steel workers are women? How many deep sea oil rig construction workers are women? How many people who fish in the arctic, say the type on 'the most dangerous catch' are women? How many who fight oil rig fires are women? It's all part of what our society tells men that we have to be. And what we have to be, to most, is simply being 'manly'.
How true.

Summation, bottom line: We all have feminine feelings, feminine emotions. We just shut them down and assume that's all there is to it. But they come to consciousness when we don't expect, and we are horrified that we aren't the 'all man, all the time, MANLY man that we feel we have to be'.

WIC is for nursing moms and their babies and little kids. I know, i've been on it and I tell you that with one of mine I got very sick with mastitis and my whole boob turned black with a large red streak going up into my chest with a fever of 105 .

Not real sexy is it....

The pain was so bad I could hardly stand it and lasted for 2 solid months. Anyway, wic not only furnished my formula after I became too sick to nurse, they openly let dad's join in to take care of their kids too. I was very very ill and my ex husband( not the dresser) was quite popular at those wic meetings..
He also laughed, cried, showed alot of emotions. I won't be with a man that doesn't have a gentle side and can't be emotional.. you can do that without posing in mini skirts and halter tops and 60 pairs of p hose.

The rest I agree with you with they know why they dress they want to make up any reason possible so they don't have to go there and you know we're there is.

@ Brittany, women dress in those kinds of clothes to attract a man. Not for each other.

sometimes_miss,

while I do find a small kernel of truth hidden in your writings, I definitely have to disagree with this:

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'New' woman tops 'previous' woman in desire every time.

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This might be true for the insecure, the egocentric, or the otherwise unevolved males - it's certainly not true for all.

In my experience it's "right" woman tops "every other" woman every time.
My wife is older than me, in poor health, and is largely intolerant of my feminine urges.
Even so, you could march a parade of beautiful half naked women through my bedroom and I wouldn't stray.
All else aside, I love my wife. I have "bonded" with her, and the rest of the world is unimportant.

From time to time, she'll tease me about finding a girlfriend when she's gone.
I just smile and give some form of "the only girl I'll be looking for, is me."

But then again - I'm not exactly a "Manly Man" :strugglin

GG speaking here, and it is utter nonsense that women are competitive with one another and hate each other. While there are specific incidences where there is a competitive or catty vibe, the majority of interactions is one of support, be it emotional or professional. Women dress the way they do for so many different reasons that it's impossible to assign a motive to "all women". Some are looking for a partner, and choose deliberately to dress a certain way, some have purchased a garment that makes them feel good inside, some are looking for comfort, and some are wearing a favorite garment because it makes them feel confident. Some, who are in an environment where there are predatory males, may be dressing in a way that makes them feel safer.

Wear what you want to wear, and stop griping about women not dressing the way you think they should dress, and stop assigning a motive to what we choose to wear on a given day. Stop claiming that women's clothes are more comfortable than men's clothes, that men's clothes are boring, and aren't designed to be sexy. I'm sure there's an entire population of straight women and gay men who would disagree with you.

Britney, Char is talking from first hand experience, something you lack when you speak for women. So yes, I'd be interested to see these sources you keep talking about. Thanks in advance for enlightening us.

@DianeT

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Char is talking from first hand experience, something you lack when you speak for women.

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I'm not speaking for women. I am mentioning studies, and articles mentioned. :sigh:

You know, it really amazes me that when GGs are asked for their opinions, and they give them, they are called down on THEIR opinion as wrong because of research and what has been found "online".
It really doesn't take much research to figure out why there is not many other GGs who will give opinions here.
This just solidifies the fact that some of the GMs on here really don't want to hear what GGs have to say unless it falls into their own beliefs and research.
It might be beneficial to LISTEN to them and not try to debunk them.
Of course this is just MY opinion, and research may not fall in line with my thoughts, but as a GM, I don't give a crap.

Britney,

As you are well aware, there are links, studies, and research for every opinion that someone has. Believe whatever you like. Have fun researching.

It is interesting that a line of discussion seems to occur about once a year around these same issues. One gender tries to explain the behavior of the other gender and of their own gender. The same people express nearly the same thoughts each round. No one seems to learn anything. Sigh.

This may be one of the most confrontational and contentious threads I've seen here.

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Originally Posted by DAVIDA

You know, it really amazes me that when GGs are asked for their opinions, and they give them, they are called down on THEIR opinion as wrong because of research and what has been found "online".
It really doesn't take much research to figure out why there is not many other GGs who will give opinions here.
This just solidifies the fact that some of the GMs on here really don't want to hear what GGs have to say unless it falls into their own beliefs and research.
It might be beneficial to LISTEN to them and not try to debunk them.
Of course this is just MY opinion, and research may not fall in line with my thoughts, but as a GM, I don't give a crap.

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A THOUSAND TIMEs this .
Thank You Davida
They really do NOT want to know what GGs think or they would NOT come back at us. Either you want to know our opinions or you would rather just have your own damn opinion on the matter.
This gets really old . Do not ask us anything if you do not respect our answers and have to argue with your misinformation. Re- your stupid links - how do you know the articles were not written by a man!All the GGs are telling you different but….no you know better how we think %$&@$&@$&@#

This thread is done.

I want to say far worse things but my mods will have to moderate me.