My thoughts on Double Standards !!!!!!!!

This post is in no way to comment on how women dress or how they should dress.
It is meant to make all crossdressers think about why there is double standards
and how to get away from these double standards and to level the playing ground
Please keep this in mind if commenting on the post

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This has been on my mind for some time now.
Sure women can put on whatever clothes they want and go on with their life.
I will say, stop and think how they got to this point.
They walked into the men's department and bought the clothes they like.
Or they grabbed clothes from their SO's closet and life went on.
They did not make a big deal about it. They did not try to look like a man.
They didn't put on a mustache or pack their pants, They just chose the clothes they
liked and went out.

They took that step and ran with it. Until it became very common place.

So women are stronger and have the courage to take the step.

So I guess for us to get to the same place. We need to take the bull by the horns
and dress like we prefer and step out the door. Eventually it will be very common place and we will also
be able to go out dressed like we prefer.

That will be the only way that it will become totally acceptable.
So if you are a man in a dress, or you prefer to dress completely and look like a woman.
We have to go for it and step out. Just like the women have done over the years.

Easy to preach it. Not so easy to do it.
I need to follow my advice as well.

Excellent Post Raychel!
I always felt the shock of it all ect is because it’s so hidden .
If everyone was brave enough to wear what they want it would not be so taboo.
It would be normal.
I do have hope as I have grands that wear what ever they want and have come out to everyone.
It does sadden me so many here were misunderstood and in the closet and some still are.
Kudos Raychel !

I desire to go out dressed up in a beautiful dress and high heels but sadly my wife has asked me to not tell anyone or go out so I have to honor her wishes but I am trying to change that agreement cause I would love to free myself in that way and show the world how beautiful I can be

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It wouldn?t surprise me if the average guy walking by Just wearing some silk or satin panties as they feel heavily who wouldn?t want to wear that

In fact, many of us binary dressers r a dying breed. I either dress in all drab or totally fem to the 9's. But, I'm very old school.:straightface:

Young trans of today do dress as they please. I mostly find their looks androgenous. But, then the young women of today don't dress all that feminine either.:sad:

These r the looks young people r used to seeing and they dress accordingly!:daydreaming:

So true, Raychel! Now, if only it was that easy to throw on whatever I wanted and go out... I keep wishing every other guy would do it first so I'd look normal when I did it, but that's another fantasy.

Thanks for this thread, Raychel,

Women wear what they want because the ladies that came before us were brave enough to fight the "women must wear a dress/skirt" taboo. My own mother told me that "her mother" was scandalized because my mother chose to wear shorts. Now everyone wears shorts with no repercussions.

Todays CDers are still pioneers in making their way out of the closet and into the public realm - making the way for the next generation to have greater acceptance.

I wear whatever I want, which in my case are dresses. And on Sunday morning it's makeup and frequently, heels. Here in the Dallas-Fort Worth Texas are I have NEVER been harrased or threatened. I'm sick and tired of Trouser Tyranny that even women have bought into, along with drab colors.

John

I go out regular dressed, In go all over the country and just dont just choose places that are safe such as lgbt pubs/clubbs etc, I go shopping in the Malls and on the hight streets, I go in pubs clubs as I choose,. Yes I am with a GG friend most of the time, but normal everday rules apply as I would if I was dressed as a man, dont walk alone late at night, keep away from young excitable crowds in pubs and clubs, Im just me whether dressed or not. In all my years (and there are plenty of them) of going out dressed Ive never encountered any problem, yes Ive had the odd miss gendre at the tills and being served at the bar, but no one has ever be rude or approached me while dressed. I dress sensible during the day, but do dress a bit risque sometimes when in clubs. people are more tolerent than you think, I know I get clocked every now and again, I can see it in there eyes, but its not a problem, they dont come running over to me and say "excuse me are you a man" why would they ?. The world is more tolerent and accepting than you think, well it is here in the uk.

Rachel,

I thinkthere are other factors at play here, perhaps the most significant being 2 world wars.

Men went off to fight, women took up their roles in factories and agriculture. Skirts and dresses were exchanged for overalls, how women were viewed, just what they were capable of doing was forced onto society. Women were no longer seen as the weaker sex. It took a little time but men were forced to adjust and post WWII women's fashion echoed what it was that women had worn during the war years.

Film stars of the era often led the way with haute coffeur embracing volumous trouser styles. Gay women were perhaps the first adapters of male suit styles.

As for why women were able to diversify their wardrobe and not men, well women tend to be more supportive and less judgmental of each other and see that " it looks good on you". Men are far more judgemental and slow to adopt change. It's a harder barrier to break.

Where fashion houses have showcased more androgynous styles the man in the pub is far more likely to be skeptically dismissive, even ridiculing so making it harder for those who may wish to be more flamboyant not to be the object of scorn.

Hopefully society will evolve. Sadly however there's a political move to increase discrimination, not reduce it. Again hopefully, that will pass and a freer attitude will prevail.

Thank-you Raychel. :thumbsup: You have summarised excellently.

I offer my own experiences: (Apologies to those who have read this before.)
About six years ago i woz still in the closet, going thru the familiar emotions of "if only"....
Then a member, whom i think of very highly, told me very bluntly that i was being hypocritical:
If you wanna be accepted, you gotta go out and own it. It won't just happen.
At first i was disappointed to be criticised by a person that i regard as an unofficial mentor, but i quickly realised that she was right.
That moment marked a change in thinking for me and since then i have gone from totally in the closet to now being "out" to almost everybody.

The reality is that so much of the fear is in our own minds:
As an enby, i don't try to "pass", but go out as me. Nobody could fail to recognise me as a genetic male, yet it is incredibly rare that i have been subjected to transphobic behaviour when out&about. Even these few occasions have been no worse than a few pathetic comments from idiots.

The majority of people are too engrossed in their i-phones to even notice you.
Of those that do notice you, the majority really don't care what you are wearing.
Of those that do dislike what you wear, the majority wouldn't actually be rude enough to say so.
Of those that do say something, the majority wouldn't actually extend their rudeness into aggression/violence.
And the tiny number of people that this actually leaves are just mindless thugs, who would doubtless find some excuse to be aggressive even if you weren't TG.

So, to summarise, the message is: "Be visible! Be awesome! Be YOU!" :gh:

Edit:
There is a price to pay for this freedom.
Relatives, colleagues, neighbours & "friends" may disown you when you come out. Perhaps worse still are the people who express support but then fail to match their actions to their words and promptly vanish from sight. I have experienced both of these to a certain degree. It is disappointing, but ultimately it is essential to remember that this is their failing, not mine. I try to think of this as a detox of the transphobic people in my life.

There will always be reasons why some people can't go out
It could be unaccepting SO's, Situations where your work could be in jeopardy,
an unaccepting area where you live, or other social constricts.

I am sure thru the women's movements there were people that could not join in
for personal reasons. Even though they really wanted to. But at some point women
were strong enough to form enough solidarity to change the way people think.

They formed movements and got things done.
Di's and Char's comments really echo what I am saying.
The taboo will go away if enough of us get out there and show the world we are just
regular everyday people, the same people they loved before.
Women have fought for their rights to dress how they want. They even had bra burning's
to help stand up for their rights. They stood up for themselves.
And things worked out for them. At some point there were some scandalous times,
But they fought thru it. You have to bow to women for doing this.

I think we have been waiting too long for the other guy to go out first. Sure there are
some that do. And some that go out and totally pass as a woman. Kudo's to those that do.
It is fantastic that you are able to go out and enjoy life the way you prefer to dress.
But honestly I don't think, they do not really help the cause that much. If the general public looks and
see's another woman. Then the thinking will not change at all. Honestly I think not trying
to pass so much will help more. It would make CD'ing more visible to the public. I have
gone out a few times just as a guy in a dress. Sure people look, but I have never had
any real closeup comments. It is certainly a time when you have to watch where you are
going and your surroundings. But this is something that women have to do all the time.
They have to be careful not to get in bad situations. Something that most men don't think about.
We go about our day, and really don't have to think about the possible bad situations.
Women walk with this everyday. We as men need to think about that more. Women fought for
their rights and still walk in fear of so many things.

Helen also posted a good point. Some of the change may have come from the war's where
women had to take positions in factories, and support position for the men that were
involved in the wars. I am sure this helped the movements. Again shows just how
strong women are and can be.

I think we as crossdressers should step back and learn from them.

As Krea said. "If you wanna be accepted, you gotta go out and own it. It won't just happen."
and "Be visible! Be awesome! Be YOU!"

And also to go along with what Krea said. There will be a price for this freedom. There will
be people that don't accept this side of you, Just as women went thru when fighting for their rights.
They had a lot of hurdles to cross as well. But fighting for the cause now will help later generations, and those of us that have issues now.

This is a huge forum. with thousands of members. What better place to have this conversation and start stepping out there.

So if we don't like the double standards, Let's all work together and change it. :) :) :)

Once upon a time there was non-acceptance of a woman wearing trousers/pants. I can remember in my neighborhood a woman in my apartment building was shunned because she wore pants. I've mentioned several times that I saw a young beautiful blond woman getting out of the cab of a concrete mixer: attired in safety vest, jeans, steel toed boots, flannel shirt and hard hat. She had the most beautiful smile. She was happy. There was no hint that she wanted to portray herself as a man. My wife, daughter and granddaughter on occasion have shopped in the male side of a store: for comfort or functionality or price-point.

There are societal norms and expectations that people are required to adhere to, and bear consequences if they do not. I feel the need to appear as a woman for whatever in my mind that drives me to that. It's more than saying "It's the pretty clothes!" Sure, go out in a pretty dress and heels with a full beard and bald head. The negative consequences of doing that can also fall upon his wife: no longer accepted in social circles, church, the neighborhood BBQ, etc.

The other factor is, I enjoy being a man. My male clothes are no drab, i.e., lacking in color and design.

As a private dresser I won't join that conquest. But I approve. Women fought their own battles to get there. There was never a double standard, because the freedom of choice they have in the dressing department isn't something that was given, it was won. Myself, I'll never go out dressed in women's clothes, because it ain't me, only a private fantasy. Outside, my social identity is and will remain forever male, that is what I am. But maybe I'll go out wearing a men's skirt one day, a male version (like here) of the ankle-length female skirts I bought for MIAD mode with my wife. That I might do, because it'd be me.

I get what your saying, Diane. U can't go out wearing just a skirt because of the flack you'll get.:sad:

But, what if no one cared or noticed? That's what Raychel is preaching should be ok. And, she's rite!:thumbsup:

Not a matter of getting flak or not Doc. Just a matter of being true to myself when interacting with people. A reason why, although I'm ok to be with my wife dressed as MIAD, I am not with full nines.

Notice how I use my real name and not a made up feminine name. My aim as a point man is to help men climb out of the deep rut of men's "fashions'" instead of pretending I'm a woman. So many men wait until some other man breaks the ice so men's "fashions" remain static.

John

I'm enjoying this conversation and will certainly keep an eye on it. Helen, I like your observance that our clothing choice trends are more evolutionary than revolutionary.
I've seen a few MIADs out in public that were attracting second looks. And I've enjoyed many hours wearing a nice bra with forms to where I nearly forgot because it just felt good.

Kudos to you John. It would be great if that were more common place.
Someday we could walk in the store. Looking for what we like without the sections
labeled womens or mens. Just labeled clothing.

Good point Carla
There will always be people taking a second look.
This happens with everyone now, and always will.
If you see a well dressed man or woman, I think it is just natural
to take a second look. They took the effort to dress nicely.
and that will draw attention. :)

women do wear what they want and they worked hard to assert their right to do so. But they didn't do it in order to present as men. I'm not one from the MIAD school. For me, its about presenting as a female, not just wearing female clothes. I don't think that when women asserted the right to wear pants necessarily stuffed them to give them selves a male bulge, or taped their breasts down to minimize their chests. That said, I completely agree with the idea of being out in the world to 'desensitize' society to crossdressers, trans folks and anyone who simply wants to live their life

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Raychel

Kudos to you John. It would be great if that were more common place.
Someday we could walk in the store. Looking for what we like without the sections
labeled womens or mens. Just labeled clothing.

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If that happens, two extra measurements would be useful: Bust size and hip size. After all, there are busty men such as myself and flat chested women.

John

I agree Audrey. I guess that is the whole point. If we don't want the double standards. It will be necessary to desensitize society. And I think the best way would be to get out there and enjoy life.

Unless there is a huge media blitz. Or fashion drive. I think we need to do it.

I largely agree with you Raychel. I regularly dress as I want and it is pretty androgynous. Nothing in your face but definitely androgenous and I carry a side bag as well that is also androgenous. People do notice - the women, in general like it, and have no problem with nearly 80 year old looking that way. I personally am not interested in looking like an 80 year old woman and my somewhat masculine facial features would likely be a Big Tell. I'm not knocking 80 year old women - I am married to one and she is still quite beautiful and many other are as well. But most 80 year old men just can't swing it like an 80 year old woman who has been keeping up at it for 80 years - they usually have much healthier skin - period.

The point though is that everyone should be permitted to dress as they wish. One might think that would produce chaos. But many including myself disagree. Humans have always been somewhat conforming to particular dress standards and there have always been some who push the boundaries for a wide variety of reasons. But studies have shown that in social communities there is a tendency to have dress standards that most people follow fairly closely. Most humans are just not that interested in standing out and prefer to blend in to some extent with small variations. Also most societies have somewhat strict rules for gender expression that most people follow. The anomalies are those that go in the other direction and demand conformity based on sexual standards. There seems to be a tendency for societies that define gender as being almost a synonym for sex tend to be some of the most highly "developed." Meanwhile many so called "undeveloped" or "more primitive" people seem to recognize a clear distinction between sex and gender, rarely get them confused, and if you desire to identify as a member of the opposite sex it's ok.

However in many of those societies those people tend to serve both roles as the need arises - they have gender identities that span significant parts of both male and female genders and often leave sex out of the picture. To me, that seems to be a natural variation, because in biology such matters are rarely either/or whereas such things as sexual differentiation and reproduction is definitely either/or. We humans are almost absolutely sexual binaries, athough errors do occur and those people have a rough time of it because they are in the "almost" range and most people forget that there is always an "almost" range in anything genetic.

But gender is all over the place in nature with a lot of sharing of gender traits and variations galore, especially among primates and some other highly evolved mammals. But when one equates gender and sex gender gets the short end of stick and becomes defined by sex as if reproduction decides everything. What a bunch of horny creatures we are - sex fiends! So therein lies the problem and it derives, I think, from sexual dominance and sexual submissiveness. But if we get our heads out of the bedroom and into the real world (as many "primitive" people do) equality arises quickly and everybody can be a part of the community as well as be an individual in terms of gender behavior that define the many roles that people can serve in a society. Civilization tends to destroy that freedom to be who you wish to be and serve the role you wish to serve in your home culture. Is that necessary? I don't think so. All it takes is for us to not try to set so many strict rules in dress code and the like and let people be who they are and let them serve in the way that they want. ACCEPTANCE OF DIFFERENCES. It is so easy and yet so hard.

Absolutely brilliant post, Rachel! Couldn't agree more.
And the comments have made this one of the most interesting threads that I've read on here in ages.

Little By Little, BUT It's going to take a Long Time,

I totally agree Blue. It will take a long time.
The women's movements didn't happen overnight.

Maybe we need to burn our mens underwear. :daydreaming:

Lol, I would have to go buy some for that event.

When women adopted men's clothes it had little to do with fashion. They were trying to force their way into the fields of societal power by looking and acting like men. In many ways that's easier for society to understand and accept than it is a "powerful man" wanting to adopt the appearance of "weaker women" we are another challenge to the patriarchal order but we are not 50 percent of the population. I think it's a longer road to acceptance but we can always throw on men's wear whenever we don't feel like fighting thatvbattle. an option women never had.

I have not thrown on menswear since late September for my mother's funeral visitation and service.

John