Genderfluid

After watching the YouTube channel F1nnster I have made some thoughts. F1nnster who started crossdress for fun, now identifies as gender fluid. Is this just me also?
When I crossdress for several days it changes the way I see myself. I can really relate to beeing gender fluid. I enjoy a lot of typical male stuff, cars, motorbikes, carpeting and staying unshaved for weeks. But at the same time I enjoy typical female stuff. Cooking, decorating the house, sewing and embroidery and off course female clothes.
So I make the statement, I am gender fluid!!

Can anyone relate to this?

Gender fluidity works like this for me: I do typical male stuff in drab (computer programming, games, reading books, watching TV, sewing, occasional cooking). And typical female stuff when dressed (computer programming, games, reading books, watching TV, sewing, occasional cooking).

I can relate to this term, in fact I think of myself as such. For me I like to think of it in terms of how one presents themselves, not so much in terms of interests and certainly not in terms of sexuality. I do feel it is just a label of sorts tho, which is pretty much up to the interpretation of the individual.

I might need to dress a certain way for a specific task, but for the most part, how i'm dressed doesn't change what I do or how I act. I'm still the same me either way. Ask yourself, why don't you do more typical guy stuff even when you're dressed? What's stopping you from cooking or doing housework or whatever if you're not dressed? Do you feel obligated to fit in certain roles and keep things compartmentalized?

I think some men have a very old fashioned ideas of what “women do”. I will say no more.

I wouldn't necessarily say "old fashioned."

Bit harsh? :strugglin



More like a segment, perhaps, anyway.

Yes, even today.


Sorry, but no denying that, IMO. They most certainly exist! :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by char GG

I think some men have a very old fashioned ideas of what “women do”. I will say no more.

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Are you referring to me?

Well for a moment, reading you, I wondered if in your description women were allowed to leave the house. But surely they can. Hey, someone's got to do the groceries and pick the kids at school.

Wow? Really? Well, I am Norwegian. I am a feminist and a socialist. I was a stay at home dad for a year with my daughter. I participated in the 8 march parade, this year as well. My wife is happy with me doing homework, in drab.
I worked for 20 years as a seaman. During that time I worked with 3 women. I now work in a psychiatric hospital. With ptsd and drug related problems. I work with 75% women. Pointing that out makes me a? What? Please let me know!!
But if you want to read between the lines, be my guest. But my friends and family will tell you every day of the week that you are wrong.

By the way. None of my male friends gives me compliments for my Nailart, but my female friends do.

I agree with Char. I, too, will say no more

Are you referring to me?

Honestly, I did not read anything remotely stereotypical in Pernilles remarks.

Pernille, i identify as non-binary. Possibly some people might consider this genderfluid. :thinking:
However, my definition of this is somewhat different to yours.
I don't consider myself masculine or feminine, as these labels can tend towards stereotyped. Instead i consider myself a person.
My assigned gender at birth does not determine what i wear or what activities i enjoy. I just go with whatever i prefer.
My choice of clothing is determined by what i am doing only in so far as i wear good clothes for going out and old clothes for repair work etc.

I’m 100% female, despite having male body parts. But if the occasion demands it I can be uber-macho. If danger is present, especially to women or children, I instantly become the macho-man protector. I don’t know if that’s gender fluid or not.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DianeT

Well for a moment, reading you, I wondered if in your description women were allowed to leave the house. But surely they can. Hey, someone's got to do the groceries and pick the kids at school.

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I must say that this comment makes me wanna cry. With anger.
I grew up in a county where sosialism and feminism is considered a strength to society. And I totally agree with that. I believe in equality and respect for all. Having a comment like this thrown in to my face is just a perfect example of toxic masculinity. "You are stupid and I am smart"
To acknowledge the fact that, in general, men and women think, feel and act different,is important. That is respectful. To respect people for who they are regardless of everything is important.

But hey, keep on throwing passive aggressive comments my way. I know that you are wrong.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nic J

Pernille, i identify as non-binary. Possibly some people might consider this genderfluid. :thinking:
However, my definition of this is somewhat different to yours.
I don't consider myself masculine or feminine, as these labels can tend towards stereotyped. Instead i consider myself a person.
My assigned gender at birth does not determine what i wear or what activities i enjoy. I just go with whatever i prefer.
My choice of clothing is determined by what i am doing only in so far as i wear good clothes for going out and old clothes for repair work etc.

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Hi Nic J

The difference between non-binary and gender fluid is hard to tell for me. But if someone tells me either, I respect that. How people see themselves is not for me to judge. Dressing in womens clothes does not make me a woman. Driving a motorcycle does not make me a man. But people who get to know me and get to know that I crossdress is always surprised when hearing it.
"you? Crossdress? But you drive a motorbike /enjoy modelbuilding / attend car shows /live in the wild for days ending up smelling like a pig..." This is reactions I get when telling.
Why is that? I think that in general people see mens and women's behaviour different. We are surprised when" typical men show up in a glitter dress, with makeup and nail polish not as a joke but because it's a natural thing. I am that person. I don't feel like a man. I feel like me. I therefore see myself as gender fluid. I work as a social worker. I have a deep heart for people who are hurt and needs help with their ptsd and drug addiction. That doesn't make me any gender. But when I look at my coworkers I see mostly women. I am married to a nurse. She makes more money than me. It makes me proud as he.. That doesn't make me any gender.

But putting all this, and more, together makes me feel like a gender fluid person.

Whoa! This thread seems to have gone from gender fluidity to female stereotyping?:eek:

Personally, I'm gender solid! Whatever I'm doing and however I'm dressed, it's me doing it!:tongueout

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Pernille Tiratzo

Hi Nic J

The difference between non-binary and gender fluid is hard to tell for me. But if someone tells me either, I respect that. How people see themselves is not for me to judge. Dressing in womens clothes does not make me a woman. Driving a motorcycle does not make me a man. But people who get to know me and get to know that I crossdress is always surprised when hearing it.
"you? Crossdress? But you drive a motorbike /enjoy modelbuilding / attend car shows /live in the wild for days ending up smelling like a pig..." This is reactions I get when telling.
Why is that? I think that in general people see mens and women's behaviour different. We are surprised when" typical men show up in a glitter dress, with makeup and nail polish not as a joke but because it's a natural thing. I am that person. I don't feel like a man. I feel like me. I therefore see myself as gender fluid. I work as a social worker. I have a deep heart for people who are hurt and needs help with their ptsd and drug addiction. That doesn't make me any gender. But when I look at my coworkers I see mostly women. I am married to a nurse. She makes more money than me. It makes me proud as he.. That doesn't make me any gender.

But putting all this, and more, together makes me feel like a gender fluid person.

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Pernille, you are being the person you wish to be and that is extremely important. :thumbsup:
Identity labels, such as genderfluid, are usually difficult to define exactly and many people will disagree on precisely what they mean.
But yes, i reckon genderfluid does sound appropriate for you. Best wishes, :thumbsup:

Propagating sexist stereotypes and cliches isn't harmless and has very real consequences for women. I'm glad you had a progressive upbringing, but alas, it doesn't show in your posts. At all. I will comment no further.

Well, if I say that buying pillows for the sofa is for women. That's toxic and sexist. But if I say that more women then men enjoy buying pillows for their sofa, that is not sexist and toxic.

Nuances

Mod Hat

Everyone that has given their opinion….thank you
Those wanting to weigh in do so
This how we learn

BUT NO BACK AND FORTH.
It does nothing but cause hard feelings and no one’s mind is changed .
ADD in the rules it states no criticism on how someone expresses themselves or thinks- we can agree or disagree but no one is an authority on this all…..are we not Navigating this together and learning from each other.?
Please be kind to each other.

My. Personal answer - being gender fluid is an internal sense of self.
NOT what I’m doing
Like
…an oil change, car maintenance ect cooking ,baking , painting, writing poems
That is always just me doing everyday things .
Applying gender to activity’s is foreign to most nowadays but it was prevalent long ago.

Di, well said! Thank you.

For a start I must say that what I do, does not make me gender fluid. If that is what all of you gets out of it I must apologise for offending you. I am sorry off course.

I think I will stop there. But please, stop sending me dm's telling me how toxic and stupid I am.

(trying to get the thread back on track...)

Pernille, I can somewhat relate, but then again it's not quite an exact fit for me.

I'm a mix of both feminine and masculine. My body is definitely male while my inner sense of self isn't.
I've grown immersed in the male world, so most of my learned behaviors are more what are considered "masculine" than not.
That doesn't mean that I don't have a host of traits that don't fit that well with what "guys" are supposed to be like.

I struggle to this day with an appropriate label for myself.
gender fluid? not quite. I don't really "flow" between the two sides.
non-binary? Almost, but I really don't want to be "in the middle."
Agender? Nope. I definitely feel a gender. It's just not the one that agrees with my body.
Trans? Probably the closest, but I'm enough of a realist to understand that transition is not in the cards for me.

So - either I create my own definition (gender bipolar? how about non-tracked trans-lesbian?)
Or I just shrug and get on with my life.
I guess I'll take "shrug."

Dictionary definition: Denoting or relating to a person who does not identify as having a single unchanging gender.

So, its NOT about what u do but how u FEEL! U feel you're different genders at different times.:battingeyelashes:

Let me add to my earlier comment in which I said I feel like me all the time. Whichever gender I feel like doesn't change so I'm NOT genderfluid.:straightface:

Yeah, I think I fit in the definition as well. In drab I feel as a man, dressed I feel as a woman. And as I mentioned few times Czech language has male, female and neutral versions of many words and when I'm dressed I refer to myself in female versions without thinking, while in drab I use the male ones.

Btw. F1nnster rocks.

Gender fluidity for me is doing my daily activities either presenting female, which I prefer but is not always possible, or male. My body and brain just feel more natural and relaxed when in fem mode. Have no need to separate activities into any visions of assigned gender roles.

I agree totally with Jesse, I do my daily activities in whatever mode I Am presenting that day. The only ex eption being on the days tht .I am helping my son wuth tge restoration kf hjs 200 years old proprty.Otherwise I have no need or desire to seperate activities. My wife and I share the household chores, although she prefers to do the laundry, but leaves the ironing to me.

I struggle with this topic primarily because the definition of gender seems to be a bit existential. As others have said, the current definition appears to be "ones innate sense of self". How do each of us define that? Is ones innate sense of self generated by our gravitation to stereotypical gender roles, outward presentation, hobbies, personality tendencies? Stereotypical for what decade? What century? These things are constantly changing and pretty ill defined IMO.

I showed my wife what I liked to wear and she said I dress like I'm going to church and that's not how women dress day to day. So, is my innate sense of self confined to a women that wear skirts, heels, and makeup? Girls in glam mode? It's tough to reconcile the fact that I'm influenced by cues I can only observe, not experience, because I wasn't born female. For that matter, how do women generate their innate sense of self? They grow up interacting with other girls, learning what societies expectations are, and are also influenced by their own biology. Ultimately women and men are all different, and I think it's a impossible, if not laughable, to even try to define "gender", and by extension, "gender fluidity".

So to answer the question, I know that I want to have the curves and facial cues of " what my perception is" of the typical woman. I don't relate well with how most American men are expected to think and act. My hobbies range from typical male stuff like woodworking and fixing stuff, to stereotypical female stuff like dancing, fashion, and dramatic performance. I'm XY, not XX. My gender feels to neither be male, nor female. Nor does it swing back and forth as one might define gender fluid. My innate sense of self is...just me.

I don't think there is such a thing as gender fluid. I have a wide range of interests, some designated as male some as female. I don't link them to a separate gender or change my interests depending on how I am dressed.

I am on the verge of completing my eighth decade on the planet Earth. I've seen limitations imposed on women and men,too, when it came to societal norms and expectations. Even as a young kid in the 1950's boys did not do that, play that game, etc. The same with girls. As recently as last year I heard that from my son-in-law when talking to my grandson when he was trying to direct his attention with "that's a toy for girls." That mentality is still there.

As to hanging a single word on a complex issue, don't try to explain a complex issue with one word. "Gender fluid?" Express oneself in complete sentences and paragraphs. Don't go up to a person and declare yourself as "gender fluid." Me? When my wife and I had "The Talk" I ended up cutting through all the bullshit and said "I do not know why I do, what I do!" That was in the early 1980's. I still don't. I can tell her, if she listens, what I feel. There is no "women's work" or "man's work" in our household. One may have a better skill set in solving an issue or engaging in a hobby, but, none of that societal crap goes on.

I must say that growing up in Norway, I am glad that steriotyping women and men is coming to an end. But I grew up with a mother that denied me playing with my sisters dolls, even together with her. I was told from a young age how to be a boy. Boys don't cry,girls do. Boys don't play with dolls and play dress up. But if I was building Lego, playing football or help my father washing the car I was being a proper boy. At least I was told so. I was even told that boys didn't get sad when bullied, they get even. I think this has formed me as a person. I liked playing with dolls, I cryed when someone hit me. I just couldn't relate to being a boy. But still I didn't relate to being a girl. Because I wanted to play football and trow rocks in the ocean. Witch my sister was denied. I was being none of them. As I understand, feminism made the term gender. As an contradiction to biological sex. Gender is the range of social, psychological, cultural, and behavioral aspects of being a man (or boy), woman (or girl), or third gender. I just wanted to be free, and being myself. Embrace both the typical boy/girl expectations from society. Maybe the term is incorrect. Maybe not. But I can really relate to feeling both male and female. In a way I feel different inside me, from day to day. I think that is why I find it OK to be gender fluid. Or maybe I am genderless. But I just want to have a word for how I feel. And gender-fluid is giving me a word for who I am. I find that comforting.

I recall as a very young child getting not so subtle messages that somethings I did were not appropriate for little boys. I have no recollection of what behaviors were deemed effeminate, but I soon figured out how to overcompensate the other direction. Of course, the suppressed behaviors and associated frustrations did not change my thoughts and eventually found expression in other ways, not always constructively. So, where is the fuzzy line between effeminate or fluid or bi-gender? In my view, there is no line, no clear boundaries. Such abstractions can only be viewed as a descriptive approximation that fits to any individual to a lesser or greater extent.