Why is it ok if girls crossdress but guys cant? I just never did get that concept.
Printable View
Why is it ok if girls crossdress but guys cant? I just never did get that concept.
BECAUSE......we are not trying to disguise our femininity and you ARE trying to disguise your masculinity.
They are not "crossdressing" It's all in the intent. They don't dress to look like a man ,where M2F crossdressers do dress to look like a woman......
Check out this thread....."M2f plz,gg's dressing for the mall etc"
Steph
Women are seen as sexual and for a man to be dressed as such he is read to be gay by other men. Women who are more or less accepting and will accept you more if you are reasonably dressed and not looking like a ****.
0.02
There is definately a counterpoint:
I believe when a man dresses as a female, he is NOT trying to hide his masculinity, only discover and endulge his femininity.
When a woman dresses as a man, she IS definately trying to hide her
femininity! A woman definately is not trying to show off her beautiful breasts and clevage and long beautiful legs and perfect ass, when she's dressed like a man.
Please, I can't believe you said this Anne. I will agree that there is some truth to your first sentence. But I totally dissagree with your second paragraph.Quote:
Originally Posted by annekathleen
Despite all the Laws in the last 30 years or so it is still a Man's World. Women wearing jeans, trousers (pants) etc are perfectly acceptable as they do not offend the masculine paradigm . However a man in female clothing is seen as denying what to many is the "Natural Order of Things" and as a threat.
It is so ridiculous that a woman can wear a pair of "boy" style briefs and they are even marketed as such but a man wearing women's panties is laughed at by most men and many women too.
I've wondered that for years and posted a thread close to it sometime before. But it was closed because things got really bad. But I agree with you it seems it's perfectly ok for a GG to dress male but if a GM dresses female he's either gay or just weird. People who don't even know us pass judgement on us and that's wrong. If I see a guy drinking a beer and say he's an alcoholic because of it that's wrong of me to say. Same goes for a GM dressing fem he's not gay or weird just different and likes what he's doing. This world will never change and that's sad it should be no ones buisiness but ours as to what we do with our lives. People can't seem to mind their own buisiness and keep their rude comments to themselves. I mean how would they like it if I said just because a guy is mumling to himself that he's a mental case and needs therapy. It's the same as what they say about us. ttfn
I agree, a man that cross dresses is embracing his fem side....to a point where the fem side might actually out weigh his masculinity, especially when the two may be subconsciously or not, pretty even to begin with.
But just because this is your desire or motive, please do not assume or mistake a woman is the thinking the same thing.
When I put on a pair of jeans, I don't stuff them.
I don't apply facial or body hair.
I don't bind my breasts.
I don't cut off my hair.
I don't wear men's under garments.
I don't try and disguise my own natural femininity.
I do applaud you Ladies for seeking yours....
Jennaie, I respect your opinion.
You are entitled to agree with part of what I said, and you are
definately entitled to disagree with the other part of what I said.
All in all, we are all entitled to our opinions, and free to express them.
p.s. I still love you, too.
I don't deny my being feminine...but I made the choice for comfort and warmth. As far as my tush and upper body...it isn't perfect, it's pretty typical of a 50 plus woman, so why would I expect to 'appear sexy'? Better I'm covered up and comfortable.
This is an old arguement....Intent is the key,pure and simple.
We need to get over this Waaa it's not fair bs . And let's get over the "society doesn't accept up bs also. Society may never accept us as a whole...but we as individuals can make our own personal statement. All you need is the courage to get out there.
And if you have reasons for not being able to do it.... Don't
On the other hand. If I saw a gg dressed like a man, with a sock stuffed down the front of her jeans, and sporting a stache.....I might say... hmmmmm she's a crossdresser.
Steph
I'm glad you feel the same as I do AnneKathleen. I hope you know that I love you too.Quote:
Originally Posted by annekathleen
I suppose what I see when I am out and about is women who are dressed in jeans and shirts, whether they are t-shirts, or whatever. But these women are very attractive and very feminine. They are wearing makeup and are cetainly not "trying to hide their feminity", at least not the women I see out there.
I think perhaps it's just a matter of whats feminine to an individual, I personally find women in jeans very feminine and sexy.
I agree 100% . I work around alot of female inmate who try to look like guys. And they hide anything make them look like a woman.Quote:
Originally Posted by annekathleen
I tend to be a "gender bender" myself at times and challenge the "norms". I'm equally comfortable looking feminine and tomboyish. I even like going M T F T M sometimes just to be different. To me it's all about how you express who you are inside, your feelings at the time and your willingness to face whatever challenges come along with what you decide to do. That's just me but to me it's part of who I am to challenge "stereotypes" whatever they may be. Ericka
Unfortunately it's all about the social hierarchy within our society. When a woman dresses in a way that is percived to be towards the masculine it's not considered a problem because she's going up the scale. However, when a man dresses in a way that is percived to be towards the feminine it is a problem because (especially amongst other men) he's lowering himself because in their eyes dressing feminine is being less of a man, and being less of a man is considered a bad thing.
Now, obviously I'm generalising about the public at large, and not everyone thinks this way, but IMHO the only way we will ever be truely accepted is when women get a higher status in society than men. Why hasn't there ever been a female US President? Where's all the female military Generals? Am I making any sense here?
As far as women "hiding their femininity"....I don't get it, a woman still looks very womanly to me no matter what she's wearing....in fact, I think she looks her most "womanly" when naked :)
I'll get off my soap box now :sb:
Quote:
Originally Posted by annekathleen
Please allow me to re-word this and see how it reads"
I believe when a woman dresses as a male, she NOT trying to hide her femininity, ony discover and endulge her masculinity.
When a man dresses as a woman, he IS definately trying to hide his his masculinity! A man definately is not trying to show off his bulging package, strong biceps, broad shoulders, and strong jaw bone when he is dressed like a woman.
I think this statement can be used on both sides of the fence. At least, thats how I read it.
Well said, Jennaie . . . and you forgot "nice, flat chest".Quote:
Originally Posted by Jennaie
I don't dress to look like a women I only wear lingerie so does that make me a cross dresser r not?
I don't think that why or why not a man crossdresses has anything to do with the thread. The question boils down to .
Are gg's who dress in male, or male looking attire crossdressers?......period
And the answer is [SIZE="4"]NO![/SIZE]
Women can wear most anything they want because they slowly changed what society found acceptable for them.
There was a time when they had to wear ridiculous clothes.. and couldn't sit on a horse unless it was sidesaddle.
That didn't just change. They had to push for it. And prove themselves in a man's world.
As long as men who like to wear femme clothes stay in the closet and remain the oddity instead of the norm. The world will not see it as normal. And therefore acceptable.
Its not a matter of "if they can we should be able to". If at the same time as women were throwing out corsets, wearing pants against their husbands' objections, burning bras, and otherwise refusing to be paper dolls; men had jumped on that wave and started wearing skirts... Well things would be far different today.
Its not too late.
Love & Hugs
~Kitty~
I think that that falls more along the lines of survival......totally different
Steph
Angel your gorgeous, what a great post. Not so sure about the naked bit tho, well not in my case anyhow tee hee. But then my partners quite happy with me so thats all I care about.Quote:
Originally Posted by Angel Darling
BEVxxxx
Wouldn't that be like just being a little bit pregnant?
Yup ur a crossdresser.
just my opinion
Steph
It's definately never too late, Kitty. It's all about expressing yourself as a person, gender notwithstanding. Ericka
The way I see it, there are types of clothing as defined by society to be masculine and feminine. The feminine pile consists of articles that resemble the trousers and shirts found in the masculine pile.
Now women wear these clothes on their bilogical form, without trying to present an image that belies their natural form nor assume a whole new persona. To put it differently, you don't find women trying to bind their breasts while wearing a shirt, but you do, (this includes me) see men who will tuck when wearing a skirt or use breast forms while wearing...a shirt!!!
Men who wear women's clothes on the other hand don't just wear "women's" clothes, but seek to project an entire image and personality of being a woman. I disagree with comments that term this embracing the feminine within, simply because make-up, skirts and lace lingerie does not define feminine. The scots wear kilts which are essentially skirts but are not considered CD's, right?
No doubt this reasoning is too simplistic in understanding why a woman in a shirt and tie is considered sexy, while a man in a teddy is considered funny.
Take care,
Sonia
P.S. I would never give up the thrill of illusion ever, despite having said what I did. Thats only to answer a question!
According to some, it does, Now I do believe that I saw you yesterday, but I did not recognize you, I thought you were a man. Only problem was, I could not understand why you were wearing that makeup and had such large breast, oh, and I could not take my eyes off your ass.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandra GG
Does this make me gay? :lol:
Got to have a sense of humor to survive.
Angel Darling....reading your posts and those of Donna T's, Holly's (CD Mom), Gypsy Karen's, etc...are one of the reasons I found the courage to come on here.
I looked long and hard to find a site, that both Jim/Jamie and I could feel comfortable with together.
I knew for years....but didn't see into the soul of my SO, until I read the heartfelt words from you and soooo many others on this site.
God, there is so much I want to say.....
Sometimes I just want to cry knowing how you all can't sit out in the back yard and enjoy the evening, that there is no voice to say you are pretty when you are in the darkness and never see the light of day, that you face prejudice and discrimination at every turn.
I know these things, I was a trailblazer myself, I worked in the Oil Patch and on Oil rigs and I fought fire for the Conservation Dept, I was the first one....
They spit on me, they beat me, I had to carry a Bowie knife just so I wouldn't get raped.
This was ages before a Discrimination Committee and it was real rough out there.
I didn't do it to prove anything....I was looking for something I think....a Dad I never met and who never said "Well done Daughter, I'm proud of you"...and I wanted to make good money on a limited education, I became the quintessential token white/native American woman to fill the quota.
But even so I always did my hair, wore perfume and make-up and there was no mistaking even covered in crude oil, I was a feminine woman.
If you don't want to be an activist for your cause, you shouldn't have to.
You should be allowed by society to be exactly as you are.
Think of it this way, every woman who is on here, every family member of yours that loves you...we are all there, not just in here.....but in the restrooms, dressing rooms, etc etc too.
So please, when it is tempting for some to say to us, what you can't say to others.....remember we are here to support you.
I know I am not always gonna say things just right....I know I am gonna p*ss off some of you when I write what I feel.
But know,
I am so fond of so many of you lovely Ladies.
I do love my Jim/Jamie.
And I do adore the real women on here, whom I learn from as well and I can turn to in a moment of hurt and misunderstanding.
By the four post this discussion went off thread. Let's try to accept who we are without having to justify why we are.
If we can't accept ourselves with out an explanation,how do we expect others to accept us at face value (without knowing why we are the way we are). Let's face it not many are going to go through the trouble of finding out what makes us tick. Fact of life.... some people will accept us some won't.
See, I am even guitly of mini thread hijacking...lol
Steph
And that's the (essential) difference between a GG and an FtM. As Steph said, it's the intent. GGs will wear what may be considered masculine-like clothing for comfort (or other reasons), but not to represent a male persona. The FtM will be the one you see (or may not even notice) who binds the breasts and maybe pack a little buddy, because it's not just about the clothes. 0.02Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonia_cd
It has to do with ~ "Why is it ok if girls cross dress but guys can't".
It has to do wtih, there is a difference in the above statement and WHY!
It has to do with.....women have faced these same issues of discrimination....and we STILL do.
It has to do with how unfair, unpleasant and unjust "society" is.
It has to do with the real women here...and why they are here ~ to support you, to gain insight of our loved ones through your voices.....and not just to take sh*t because we don't just say I like your panties and I think you are pretty.
It has to do with...Darling Angel hitting the nail on the head and my acknowledgeing this.
It has to do with ~ Goddam*mit, I KNOW I don't say things just right everytime to suit each and every one of you every single time.
I don't think this complaint addresses the situation of FTM crossdressers and transgenered genetic females. It's more like a complaint that non-crossdressing genetic females can wear whatever they want.
It's kind of funny in a laugh at yourself way, I worked in a place where we had several FTM's, about 6 years ago. I assumed they were lesbians. And there's nothing wrong with being lesbian, near as I can tell, if that's how they understood themselves. But the funny thing is, there I was, MTF in the closet, rubbing elbows with my counterpart of the other gender who were actually "out", and I made the same naive assumption about their sexuality, that people make about MTF's.
I seriously doubt that it is easy being an FTM CD.
...bucking "social norms" is tough either way..though a mans reasons to give up...(precepts of?) "masculinity" and it's social implications..seems more perplexing to most people....."It's a Man's World" -James Brown', sadly or likely still applies eh?:eek: :( xx"K"
Momarie
so you are saying that gg's who dress in manly ,or male looking attire ARE crossdressers? No one is attacking gg's on this.
I think that the before we start going off on all kinds of different tangents we need to clear up a basic question, that either makes or breaks the thread......ARE GG"s WHO DRESS IN MALE TYPE CLOTHING TO BE CONSIDERED CROSSDRESSERS? If they are.....then let's go on and on about how unfair it is. If they ARE NOT doesn't the point become moot? We can just leave the comparison to the gg's completely out of the equation and and simply whine about how how society discriminates against us and social pressure keeping us down. two completely different issues.
Steph
We're all getting a little chippy here, aren't we?
Women who wear pants, or a pair of sweats, or some such that may be considered less "feminine" attire, are not crossdressing. First of all, just because a pair of pants is just that....a pair of pants....doesn't make it an article of men's clothing. There are women's pants, too. (Duh!) When my wife wears something other than a skirt or a dress, which is most of the time, she is not crossdressing. Most of her clothes are geared towards women and their likes, and certainly not towards men. That said, it's true that women can wear almost anything they want to without raising any eyebrows anymore. This is the part that raises the question that began this thread. But there are pants and such things that are made for women. There aren't any skirts and dresses made for men. And I don't want to bring kilts or Greek military dress uniforms into the argument.
There are articles of clothing that are made for women to wear, and they fit women anatomically. If not to emulate having breasts, what earthly reason would a man have to wear a bra? The same goes for panties. They do not lend themselves to comfort for those of us with a package down there. Blouses and dresses are often tailored to allow for the swell of breasts in the front. These things are just not constructed for a male to wear. And no skirt or dress looks right with a bulge in the front.
But I really enjoy wearing pretty clothes, dresses, blouses, skirts, etc. But in order to make such clothing fit right, look right, and feel right, I need to add breasts, and diminish the obvious presence of my male parts. But it doesn't stop there. In order to get the most pleasure out of crossdressing, I also wear makeup, hide my hairy legs as best I can, and wear a wig, so that I can actually emulate what it would be like for me were I actually female. This is where we diverge from women who "crossdress". They aren't trying to be men. But I admit that when I dress, I'm trying to be, as best I can, a woman.
'Nuff said.
I wear blouse, hose, bodysuits and sometimes unobtrusive makeup in public.Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandra GG
I would wear heels, skrit etc.
I have no intention to buy breast forms or a wig.
I have no intention to hide my male body (maybe I would if I could)
What I am ? CD or someting different ?
It's not all that easy.Quote:
... god some of you girls need to get a life.
Ok, I guess I’m going to get blasted for saying this, but here goes anyway.
This is a very, very complicated subject. Almost as bad as “why do you CD”, everyone has a different answer.
Ok, here’s my perception.
GG’s dress the way they do, to attract men, or not to attract.
MEN find dresses, skirts, tight sweaters, low cut tops, high heel shoes, to be sexually attractive attire for women to wear.
Today, many women have decided that feeling comfortable, is more important than dressing sexy to appeal to men.
Although I dress and sometimes do makeup, I’m not obsessed with “passing”. What I would really like to do, is be able to walk into any public place and not have to fear some “redneck wacko” trying to beat me to death, with a hammer.
So, if more of us go to the local mall wearing a tank-top, a skirt and sandals, no wig, no makeup, maybe society will slowly accept our clothing choices.
This discussion has run on and on... Give me a break.. We dress in lingerie and all cause it thrills us..
Woman wear slacks, tee shirts for comfort not to find their male side or because their testerone is high.
We dress to feel feminine, to explore our feminine side... whatever.. but we do not dress in skirts hose and hi heels cause if feels better than wearing slacks and loafers! Woman dress 'down' cause they are comfortable. I seriously doubt a woman comes home from work and strips down and slips in a garter belt and stockings, lace panites and matching bra, mini-skirt and low cut blouse cause if feels good for them. Yes there are times they do dress like that to feel good to feel feminine but not for the same reason we CDs do!
It is statements like this, that makes society treat us like we are strange!
As a g.g. I don’t think that I am ever anything but who I am...a woman...me...and I just dress for the occasion. I like to wear feminine things but I don't question my femininity when I am in sweatpants and a t-shirt, I am just "me”. But then I have no desire to emulate any male characteristics, I am happy to be who I am.
I think that totally crossdressed men (rather than a slightly androgynous look) confuse people because somehow represents a crossover in gender identity and society likes things to drop into neat boxes.
But if a man shows he has some feminine characteristics/interests he is seen as non threatening and just in touch with his feminine side. The same man without the make up and clothes..........we are a strange lot, us human beings!
IMO a good part of that thrill is caused because it is not accepted and we are forced into the closet, which restricts time, place and social contacts.Quote:
Originally Posted by KathyT
If it would be normal it would be less thrilling, but the sensual part would dominate.
If this would be true, that would be something.Quote:
Originally Posted by Anne G.G.
Maybe he's not seen threatening, but at least as a freak.
You don't get away without stares and/or laughing and giggles if people realize that you wear i.e. thights as men.
The question there is WHY ?
This is something my hubby and I have talked about a lot recently. Since he came out of the closet a few weeks ago I have noticed quite a few F2M in our rural area. One working at SuperWalmart. I noticed but didn't find anything strange about it. She was very friendly and nice and that is all I cared about.
I have to say as far as I know I have never seen a M2F in person. Before I knew about my husband I am not sure what I would have thought if I had. Since finding out about him it has really opened my eyes to things I never gave consideration to.
I think it is more acceptable for women because in the beginning when the first women donned pants there were none made for women so they wore men's pants. As society began to realize this was going to be the way it was there began to be more feminine types of clothing for women to choose from. I am sure in the beginning the first women were not widely accepted and mothers of young children would cover their eyes and take the long way around these first ones.
Does anyone know when women first began wearing less feminine clothes? I have always been something of a tomboy and think I might possibly have been one of the first to wear pants in place of all the frills and layers of clothing a woman used to have to wear just to walk around her house if I have been born in that earlier time.
I think it is also because most men do not go out in full dress. As more do I think it will eventually stop being such a social sore spot. God bless the ones who have courage to do that!:thumbsup: