Can't get a grip on it.
What precisely is it that causes our negative reputation in public ?
Any ideas ?
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Can't get a grip on it.
What precisely is it that causes our negative reputation in public ?
Any ideas ?
They think we're all gay or sexual perverts. And then my brother told me those who crossdress are like those serial murderers - they have real mental problems.
It's hard being a "straight" crossdresser because society hates us and often people don't want to be friends with ut.
Organized religion hasn't been very kind to us.
Wow, that is a loaded question Marla. I think to sum it up in a word that would have to be fear, fear of the unknown. We make people uncomfortable because they dont understand the difference between sexuality and gender so they are "repulsed" by us. Maybe they question their own sexuality, I dont know. Anyway, that carries on to a host of other reactions that go from "whatever" to violence.
I think that the myth was well established with the flaming drag queens. They were and are flambouyant and so when most people think of crossdressing they think of the drag queen first and that becomes the gold standard for them.
Society with all its bigotry find it very easy to center out those who are different so we are at the least marginalized but more likely discriminated against because we are "easy" targets.
Just my :2c: worth
Kimberley
It is a fairly common reaction for people to hate and fear what they don't understand. We tend to be painted with a broad brush into the "gay, mentally derailed, narcisists, serial killers(OMG!)" category. It is their loss.
I must go dispose of the bodies now.
Crossdressing (in some regions) is considered a threat to masculinity.
Asking why is like asking why is playing sports masculine?
Where I live sports are a big deal. Too big a deal. It is nothing for some parents to force their son to play sports. In some families, the girl is forbidden to play sports. Because sports is a guy thing.
It's almost like they're trying to prove that they are men.
It is a mindset. One that cannot be challenged. I know too many of these men who are obsessed with being a man to enjoy life. They are too concerned with what society is telling them to do.
Many of these men are dying too because of the stress they feel to maintain their masculine identity.
Hello
Let me try ...and give my comment !
It seems that some wanna be crossdressers ..try to mock the art of
crossdressers .
Let me give some example .... hairy bodies , terrible make up ..terrible clothing that does not match and just an over uglyness toward the femm
mystique .
Melissa ( lifelong Cd girl ):2c: :2c:
I'm with Kimberley . . . people fear what they don't understand and they don't understand what they themselves don't feel. If it's not something they themselves don't experience, there must be something wrong with it. Not to mention all the messages from parents and peers growing up, and the way the media mostly makes us look like deviants and nuts. :Pfft:
So many people have told me they've never met another like me before after I told them I'm trans. I always answer with, "that you know of" and explain that we're not the freaks they've seen on Jerry Springer. Then I bring the point home that they would never have known about me if I hadn't told them. I love opening people's eyes like that. :devil:
P.S. Thanks for including all in your question, Marla.
[SIZE="3"]I agree with all the comments on why we're hated. The medical and psychiatry professions didn't do us any justice, either.
Gennee [/SIZE]
Partly because of misunderstand, misconception, miscellany, misdirect, misguided,misjudgement.....
Rain.
I believe that we just make them think about their own sexuality, and most people do not wish to be forced into any kind of introspection. At least four-fifths of everyone I have ever met run on their social programming, and do NOT want to have to deeply consider life issues be it spirituality/religon, prejudices/intolerances, or sexuality/orientation. They wish to glide through life in the groove that has been laid down for them and are willing to accept the shallowness of their lives for the security that it gives them.
Some have a negative reaction to things they dont understand
Others have decided that its not right and nothing will change their mind
Comments I have heard recently "them gays should all be shot" & "crossdressers dont know what they are"
Its very hard to change the mind of people with this type of attitude as most are not prepared to listen.
We can only hope they at least will adopt live and let live attitude
Recenty changes in the media are helping but it will be a long process and hopefully it will get better in the future
The main issue, I believe, is male homophobia.
The song 'Lola' depicts the fear of a straight male momentarily attracted to a TG, then discovering the deception. Only a swift (often violent) repudiation of the attraction will 'save' the straight identity. Recall Cronenberg's movie M Butterfly, as well - plus many other popkult examples.
That's why I always caution CDs who sport the sexy look and then turn passing into a sport.
I posted the quote below to a similer question posed in another part of the forum hope it helps
Quote:
Originally Posted by jess(SO)
All the foregoing are good points and I'm glad Marla started this thread. We not only have to see how others view us but see how we view ourselves. It seems that in a lot of ways we see ourselves as innocent victims of bigotry and violence and things like that. Most of the reactions by others come about by misconception, misunderstanding, and misinformation (the media). If we are to have any kind of empowerment, we need not only to debunk our own myths but the overall myths generated by a public that is basically "clueless". Bringing our own fears out in the open shows what we are up against. We are generally good and positive people. We obey laws, we pay our taxes and even defend our country when called for. This is the kind of stuff that needs to be highlighted that we are good upstanding citizens who really aren't out to influence any one else's sexual preference or change the world according to our image. We just want the freedom to be who we really are and be able to express that. Asking ourselves what we want and how to get it are the first steps as are recognizing what barriers we are up against. The next step is to change the image people have of us in a way that is positive.:happy: Ericka Kay
there are many good sound answers here already.
in my eyes,...
social mores!
the so called social morality refuses to recognize many things....
but it IS s l o w l y ..............coming around to our side.
give it time hun.
our day is close at hand!
its strange, but its really "fear" with people i think :rolleyes: have u noticed, that if your in the street,out shopping, and you see someone who is disabled,or has some sort of "other" disability, people either try to avoid them, walk round them, or make terrible unprofound comments. simply because they are scarred/embarrassed with what they see, and dont understand ! iam sorry to say ive done it in past :sad: yet when you see c/d on telly, pantomines, etc, no-one bats a eyelid do they +? its "acceptable". yet if you said you knew someone whom c/d there would be a hue'cry :eek: the world tries to make evryone "politcaly correct", yet they are way way off mark with lots of things sadly :sad: acceptance is hard, tolarance is unthinkable :Angry3:
Hmmm. Is it fear of the inexplicable? I mean who "knows" why we are as we are?
I think its cultural conditioning myself. We constitute an assault on one of the earliest pieces of knowledge we impart to our kids - the difference between girls and boys. Undo that "learned" fact and you upset a lot people's apple carts.
In Arlen Lev's book "Transgeder Emergence" he has a nice chapter on the anthropologic aspects of TG's in past and distant cultures (the Rule of WASP's has not been universal across our planet in time or geography). Some present and past cultures seem to ahve accomodated TG folks. They raise(ed) their kids to believe that there are more than two categories of people, and they grow up OK with the idea of say men living as women.
So to avoid creating more of the intolerant bigots DayTripper warns of, we need to raise our own kids to accept decent people like us without bias or prejudice.
I'll add one more reason that I did not see posted here. Some men actually believe that we do this to try and "Fool" straight men into having a relationship with us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marla S
Kim
I gott agree pretty much with what has been said.
Have any of you seen the new Dish Network comercial. It is about some big Burly fellow trying to get his bra fastened behind his back and they come off with something about not having to worry about what you have on because you can stay at home and watch Pay-for-View then they show him sitting back in high heels watching TV.
And what if you are not a "straight" crossdresser but a gay one? These days homosexuals are much more main stream and more accepted in society at large then CDs regardless of their orientation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jesse69
I think MSJanessa hit it on the head here....the fact that you are straight or gay doesn't even matter, if you dress you are perceived as gay and the homophobic society we live just can't accept that....bottom line is fear of what is different.Quote:
Originally Posted by MsJanessa
Rebeca
People think we are perverts or deranged sexual deviants or pediphiles, but they always end up being christians, conservatives, or members of the moral majority:lol2:
I can see that its not really a good thing to be a cd. Most of your points are right on. I was asked yesterday what i thought about trans i told them i liked them there cool with me. But i could tell not many ppl even knew what that ment to be trans. I told them and they said that they are scared of them. I have 2 good friends that are trans and i didn't want anything to do with them until i realized i was a cd. I have been pretty open minded but the ppl in my life mostly my family don't like anything thats not normal to them. So its hard at times to break away from it. I work in costumer service so i have seen cds and disabled ppl i have always ask them if they need help but i was alittle freaked out. Thats all i have to say on that.
most of joe/jo public 'think' that ALL CDing comes with sexual connotation, and that we are sex craved perverts!
I remember seeing one of those Police shows once. A store was being robbed and a young guy en femme was one of the customers. The robber was threatening to shoot the customers. The young guy decided to risk all and jumped the robber and turned the tables. He was "outted" by the experience. Did he think of that? Potentially saving the lives of the other customers was foremost in his mind, risking his own life in the process. During the interview on the show he admitted he was a crossdresser. He figured the robber would never suspect a "girl" of trying to jump him, so went for it.If what was portrayed was true, he became friends with all the other customers. They thought no less of him or his disposition, as he was a hero to them. Although the fact that he was a crossdresser was mentioned, it was not highlighted in a derrogatory way. In fact, the host commended him for risking his life, reputation and possibly being subject to ridicule for what he did. You never know who is going to save your life, as you can't pick and choose. Get my point? This is the kind of stuff people need to know about.:happy: Ericka Kay
We are different!
Lanore
That's an oxymoron, kinda like 'Military Intelligence".Quote:
Originally Posted by Bernadina
I have issues with organized religion unless two people organize a get together there's always one man in control of how everything is done, and a doctrine....
I just have issues with that - and that is so true about why people are looked down upon for anything out of the norm. Not just dressing either...
I have to ask... what qualifies someone as a "wanna be" cross-dresser?Quote:
Originally Posted by Melissa51
So if they have body hair (some don't shave fully as maybe they are in the closet for one reason or another), or are bad dressers, or not blessed with good looks they are "wanna be's"? So they are not what you consider to be "real" cross-dressers? That type of thinking is very obtuse and judgmental.
I hope my answer does not offend anyone...
Perhaps the CD community isn't "fighting back" hard enough? There is no powerful organization to help or protect us like some other groups.
Could it be more primal, merely feeling adverse to any and all groups that are different than the hater? Isn't that pure prejudice? Except for the more enlightened within the various groups, it would seem that the world history is rife with countless examples, even today between factions in Iraq.
I am with Melissa51---
Been places,seen things that would make a dyed in the wool CD sick.
bad,bad makeup, dirty, hairy, dirty mishappen clothes. Just what the public wants to see so they can say " Told you so" Its a slap in the face to GGs that someone as dirty and dressed like that would try and pass themselves off as feminine
Dapple
Couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dapple
That's why I've spent years lobbying for mandatory CD membership organizations to weed out the unworthy.
:bonk:
You can't win... but there are alternatives to fighting... :hypnotized: Obi-Wan Kenobi
Kim
:dom: :iagree: :kickbutt: :wm:
Hmmm...
- fear of what we don't understand
- discomfort when visual cues are confusing
- poor representation in the media
- threat to one's sexuality
- threat to one's belief system (religious or otherwise)
- threat to the status quo
How to put a positive spin...
- find opportunities to educate
- when dressed be friendly and communicate positively
- do your best to look your best but do not try and deceive
- develop confidence in your femme persona
- be a positive spokes person for the community
- dress in ways that are appropriate for age and setting
One of the things that I am slowly learning as I get out more and develop more and more confidence (face my fears) is that for the most part the public, at least the public that I have been exposed to is either indifferent or curious. My goal now is to continue to develop my confidence, continue to grow as a femme person, put my best foot forward (in a nice pair of heels of course), present a positive image and while I do my best to create a wonderful feminine illusion not concern myself with passing. I have seen many CDs where is no doubt that they are men and yet they project great feminine poise and beauty. They are my role models.
By projecting positive things in as much as I can I will do my small bit in creating a positive view of cross dressers. By all of us getting out there and doing the same, in time, cross dressers will be seen as normally as women in pants (something that as little as 80 years ago was seen as a moral outrage).
For as long as we skulk around in the shadows we will be perceived in a negative way. I do understand that it takes a lot of courage to get out there into the public, it is a very scary thing, however, small steps, especially with the help of other sisters, will move all of us out into the light and build our confidence. The more of us who do this the more normal it will become. We are all ambassadors for the cause of making it ho hum to see a cross dresser, that is when we will know that we have finally achieved the goal (although it will take away the fun of the surprised looks you get in the mall :D )
Word!Quote:
Originally Posted by melissacd
I think in general for most straight males, the line between themselves and gay and/or cross dressing males is precious thin. One false move and they're phsyco/social/sexual fondation crumbles. This makes 'em uncomfortable an insecure (i.e. fear).Quote:
Originally Posted by DayTripper
Anyway Marla, I think your cute and not scary at all.
Maybe it does come down to looks sometimes. We all know that really pretty and/or talented CD's and TV's are very popular with the straight community in various clubs and shows. People find them extremely fascinating. I am in the closet because I doubt that many people would find me pretty, attractive or fascinating.
It's like a lot of people to react with fear and hostility to something that is different which they don't understand or know their a-- from a gopher hole about.At least I think so.In time most people will get better educated about all this but there will always be people that are touchy about "tvs","homos",etc..Samantha
Oh, Marla's cute, alright.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robin 36
But her brain is the secret weapon.
Hmmmm. I'm a Christian, Conservative Republican and a life long CDer. Maybe the other side just is not honest about what they think. In my experience bigotry and hate knows no sex, race, religion or political affiliation.Quote:
Originally Posted by tightsgirl
I think you are a noble exception.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy Carter
While I'll grant there are some Republicans who are social liberals (William Weld, etc.), I'll point out there's not too many commie treehuggers quoting the Bible against the GLBT community, either. The 'moral majority' political action groups and Churches really did slam the gays in the 80s, as I remember.
BTW, are you out?
I think, and of course this is all just my off-the-wall opinion, that most people have so much of their self-image tied up in their biological sex. Men try to live up to the "man rules"...they play sports and belch because they have to appear 100% absolutely manly in front of both men and women. Women, likewise, try to act more passive (at least in their relationships with men), pretty, and ladylike. Everyone knows their role and tries to fit into the mold as well as they can.
But then a transgender person comes along and they're obviously someone who doesn't buy into the whole gender binary, and refuse to let themselves be defined by what's between their legs. This is threatening to people because it throws their whole worldview in jeopardy...maybe life isn't as black & white as they thought, and maybe they didn't have to make the choices they did just because they're a man or a woman. When something threatens your whole idea of yourself like that, it's a natural reaction to strike against it in the hopes of keeping the sense of order you thought you had.
Let he who is without sin cast the first stone... :cool: Jesus ChristQuote:
Originally Posted by Marla S
Who threw that? :rolleyes: Come on, no is going till we find out who threw that... :kickbutt:
Kim
:dom: :evilbegon :evilbegon :gn:
I was not aware that we were hated. Laughed at, yes. Pitied, maybe. Not understood, definately. Hated, not in my experience.
We are different from most other members of society and there is not a lot of tolerance for those who are different. For us to gain better acceptance will require the general public to be better educated. For the public to become better educated will require more of us to come out of the closet and present a positive image.
Is that why all the republican senators are are being outed, christian leaders are being caught, and do I really have to mention the catholic priests.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joy Carter
It seems to me the republicans are the dishonest among us.
I probably can't list anything that hasn't already been listed. But as one person told me, they aren't thinking about what we like to wear but what they expect. When they see us, they are caught off guard. Millions of women are crossdressing every single day, ( heck they can cross dress to an interview and get a professional job ) but enough women do it, no one is really caught off guard. But primarly I believe it's fear of the unknown, combined with the preconception that it's some creepy sex thing.
i am not going to try to find out or try to guess as to why...i am me and i really dont care who who knows it..i dont live my life for anyone but me..and i am not happy unless dressed enfem..so there for i could care less of what people might think or say of me..i am sorry i could not help you as to why people do that..but if we continue to live our lifes wondering as to why we will never get where we want to be, because as some of us here fear what people think about us..i know i did..but not any more..the sooner we relize that it does not matter what they think the sooner we can be truly happy with our selfs. and that is my :2c: :hugs: :love: jenny
You got that right Day. Never know what's going on in THIS little head(even though I'm blonde). Be afraid, be very afraid because I can tell when someone is speaking from their heart and when they are trying to blow smoke up my ass.My point is we have to be honest with ourselves and each other if any positive change is to occur. If we're going to be damned, let's be damned for who we really are and not for who people THINK we are.I'm willing to give this a shot. You can't win or lose if you don't even try.:happy: Ericka KayQuote:
Originally Posted by DayTripper