How we are percieved by some !!!

Following on from Tristen’s thread about how you want us to be perceived (and this is related) I thought of coming at this from a different angle. I’m not sure what it’s like in other countries but here in the UK whenever there is a story that has the slightest hint of cross dressing the tabloid press goes overboard. Some of the words often used in these cases are pervert, weirdo, depraved and gay, with language like that we have a long struggle to gain any acceptance in the main stream society. In this case and in cases that I am aware of I do normally write and complain, this doesn’t really get me anywhere but I feel these misconceptions shouldn’t go unchallenged.

In the past over here one of these tabloid newspapers had such influence they managed to sway the result of a General Election, to get any real acceptance and recognition that cross dressing isn’t a threat and a perversion and something to be discouraged, there is much to do and will take one hell of a time to turn around.

If I’m out en drab on a ‘Boy’s Night’ out down the pub say for example and the discussion steers towards any minority group’s activities it’s amazing how many guys have a testosterone surge and become defensive, I’m sure you know what I mean in that any feminine traits they might posses disappear and they suddenly begin to spout the same offensive views that the tabloid newspapers have implanted in their sub consciousness.

Being a cross dresser and a proud member of one of these minority groups I vehemently refuse to go down this road, I always speak up for any minority group which can be done without ‘outing yourself’ if that’s an issue. It’s a long process but by continually doing this (and yes I realise it’s only on a small scale) you can win people over to be more accepting of minority groups, obviously if the number of people using this method increased, things would speed up as the newly accepting people continued to speak up for minorities.

As I said it’s only small scale but things have to start somewhere and I feel it is better than doing nothing, going down that route there will be no progress.

Sorry about the ramble, I just hope I got across what I meant. This being if we don’t (even by small steps) start to challenge every negative thing thrown in our direction we will not change the perception the big wide world has of us.

Are you one of these people who when out on a ‘Boy’s Night’ forget their other softer feminine side and deride the type of person you strive to be at home?

Are you one of these people who when out on a ‘Boy’s Night’ who will defend these minorities that off course include yourself as a cross dresser?

Your views or ideas on this would be interesting and on how you see things turning out in the future also.

JJ

I agree Julie. I have been a defender!

As I've said in some other posts, educate the public one person at a time.

Julie, this is a remarakable piece you wrote, I have never heard this side of you before. You always seemed so cheerful, not very controversial. I like what you wrote and agree with your stance.
I don't have a "boy's night out" type of situation so I can't answer your question. I just never had a boy's night out.

I've made a habit for quite awhile to challenge the bigoted spouting. I usually ask them, "Why the F*$) does it matter when it's irrelevant to you?". That usually works, and if not i consider it hopeless and drop it. The best you can do is reach those around you I guess.

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Originally Posted by JoannaDees

I've made a habit for quite awhile to challenge the bigoted spouting. I usually ask them, "Why the F*$) does it matter when it's irrelevant to you?". That usually works, and if not i consider it hopeless and drop it. The best you can do is reach those around you I guess.

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I handle these situations in exactly the same manner. Anyone who pushes the point has already demonstrated their ignorance, and any arguement, much less a civilized discussion, is a complete waste of energy.

Great post, Julie. I do try to do the right thing and challenge bigotry. When someone bashes gays or racial minorities in a social situation, I usually speak up in some way. At work, I just ignore. To me, that is not the place to make yourself controversial.

But you got me thinking a little. Most people probably don't think much about cross-dressing. Mostly, they seem to think it is funny. Probably due to the portrayel of us on television. Especially on comedies. To most people, a guy in a dress is a hoot.
And I started thinking-I am a pretty socially liberal person. Would be even if I wasn't a cd. But if I wasn't a cd, would I think cds were funny, too? I can't unequivecally say no. Hate to admit that.
So it comes down to what you alluded to-ignorance. We can blame the media, I guess, but they are made up of people-the same people you meet in bars and at work. With one difference-they are out to make money. And if they have to put down an easy target to do so, well, they will.

It's not politically correct to bash gays anymore, so the media doesn't, for the most part. But tgs are still an easy target. You are right Julie, there is still a long way to go.

One reason I never dress on halloween, is that it is generally done by people for comedic effect, and I do not want to be party to that.

I will say one thing. On the few times in my life when I have been in a bar where there was a crossdresser present, people have been nice to them or left them alone. Just my limited experience, but positive, nonetheless.

I'm afraid though, that it will be a long time before we are percieved as real people for whom this is an important part of our lives.

Thank you for getting me thinking. If it helps me to stand up to ignorance and intolerance when I run into it, that will be a good thing.

Hugs,

Melissa :)

if you look back in the sixties racial dating was un heard of today it doesent matter to most people a few years back the gay comunity took a stand and most people are growing acostume to that and its becoming socialey acceptable (for give my spelling) to wong fu came out in the movies and so did sorrity sisters witch gave people a look at us you will always have the few that are die hards but as they pass so do there ideas about us goes as well today we push a buttin and the world is before us thats how we found each other and i hope in my life time we will be accepted for what we are as well

Julie_J , very impressive piece you wrote. Maybe one day we will be accepted, but realisticly, I don't see it happening anytime soon. Progress moves slowly, but if we can keep it moving, hopefuly things will be better. There are so many people with the mindset that if you are different than them, you are a freak, sick etc..., you know, "the good ole boys" (I've encountered this more than I wish to remember). To me this is nothing but ignorance, anger, & hatred. I believe these people will always be around, but I hope one day they will be the minority.
Love to All,
Vickie

It is what we all hope for Fallen Angel, and we have made inroads in changing the hearts and minds of the mainstream of society, but there is an awful lot of work yet to be done. That's why forums such as this one are so vital in projecting a very positive image of the CD/TG/TS community to society so that the bigotry, narrow-mindedness, and stereotyping will eventually be overcome...and like MLK Jr.( and may God rest his soul) and the civil rights movement proclaimed so many years ago...we shall overcome.

Love,
Christine Renee

Maybe it's time that we all have a parade of our own in a major city - Toronto maybe? :)

Julie, great post. I too believe in defending the underdog. I'm a union person and been doing it for quite a while. We may not be able to see the type of acceptance we would like today, tomorrow, or next year but we can't give up. To me, at least, the answer is twofold: 1) Stay true to my values and inform, educate, and enlighten whenever and whereever opportunity presents itself. 2) Have a greater understanding of exactly who I am and gain confidence in that aspect of my life.

I wasn't planning on thinking this hard tonight... my head hurts. I'm going to go lie down.:)

I saw a goth girl in Seattle one day, whilst shopping, of course!

Anyway, she had the coolest hair doo, which I can't quite describe in text. Her hair was died dark black and red, with some red chop sticks up in a very classy style. She was wearing a nice long lacy black dress, boots, etc. It was a NICE ensemble.

I was impressed and told her so.

It probably shocked her coming from a very conservatively dressed guy.

Completely harmless, but outrageous style. Nothing to be offended by.

Still, I think some people are actively looking for something to offend them so they can get angry and make themselves feel superior. or somethin...

A few years ago I may have played along with the 'boys' and acted like I was one of them vs. one of the minorities. At some point I just couldn't do it anymore. It made me so uncomfortable I almost felt sick. I truely avoid those situations as much as I can now, but when there I have no intentions of playing their game. I stand up for what I believe as often as possible (of course without outing myself in the process).

I'm not surprised at this side of you Julie, infact it's refreshing to hear you say these things. I would hope many of us feel the same way and would take the steps against us forever being looked upon as different. As many answered my thread on how they want to be percieved, I want to be accepted as a human being, happy with who I am and no threat to others. None of us truely are, we're just people like everyone else and we all share this great big world.

On further reflection, we must be accepting of others if we expect them to ever be accepting of us.




Love
Tristen

i do wish there was a day where we could all hold hands and walk to gether to get the piont accross

honestly yes and no .........when out with some what "normal"(for what thats worth)
yes when something comes up i say is it realy all that bad if no one gets hurt????
and add my 2 cents....whats your peoblem??????i say let it be ....usaly droped....

the no part more of a "him" thing still have assocites (bros) that don't get that warm fuzzy feeling if you know what i mean............


julie i like this thread........makes one rethink if you cd your a cder all the time not just when dressed..............thankyou .......

I wonder why there has not been a large movement to get good press? I know there is the Tri-Ess group, but they are largely unknown outside of CD/TS communities.

Why hasn't there been a march on a major city?

Megan

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Originally Posted by Megan_Renee

Why hasn't there been a march on a major city?
Megan

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Ans: High Heels

:D

An excellent post Julie. Be true to your convictions and to who you really are inside and don't support attitudes and prejudices that you don't actually believe in or support just to obtain some kind of pseudo acceptance amongst the truly ignorant.;)

Love,
Christine Renee

As a marketing professional, let me tell you, Julie — never underestimate the power of word of mouth. Advertisors spend millions hoping to start people talking. Standing on principle in a quiet, personal, direct way can produce an astonishing ripple effect, far more effective than demonstrations and bullhorns. There's nothing small scale about what you're doing.

I'm so glad you brought this up, Julie. You've made an important point far better than I was able to in another thread.

I've always wondered if being TG has made me more sympathetic and understanding of other minorities. Most of the people in the area where I was raised were pretty intolerant of anyone unlike themselves (almost entirely white working and lower-middle class). But I somehow escaped this mentality.
I grew up when civil rights were being fought for in the sixties. Maybe this had just as great an impact on me. But there were many others who grew up at the same time who behaved just as previous generations had.
It was racial minorities that bore the brunt of any verbal or physical attacks back then in my town. Homosexuality or transgenderism were completely unknown to me until I was past grade school age. They were just never mentioned at all back then.
This is why I find it so incredulous that TV's, TS's, or homosexuals can occasionally exhibit bigotry themselves. If not prejudiced against racial or other sexual minorities, many are unsympathetic towards the poor, elderly, or physically or mentally challenged populations. It just doesn't make sense to me.
I have socialized and worked with many people of prejudice through the years. It has been pick-and-choose as to when I speak up in defense of those being spoken ill of. With friends or colleagues it has been no problem debating these issues, but I carry the "Bleeding Heart" label as a result and such talk is rarely spoken in my presence any longer.
But with co-workers and other people I meet outside my circle, I rarely speak up, unless it was people under my supervision. I never tolerated customers using bigoted words when directed at another customer or employee, but with people in an equal or greater managerial position, I would remain mum, a fact that I'm not proud of. I never would join in on this type of talk, but silence is just as bad.

So I'm back to where I began. Am I sympathetic because of WHO I am, or WHAT I am?

Smack some truth into 'em. I agree, Julie. I think it's only the right thing to do to give people a dose of reality when they come down on minorities of any persuasion. Bigots get an earful from me.

Hopefully both, Sharon, and there's nothing wrong with that. Discretion truly is the better part of valor ... so is picking your battles.

If you're selling snake oil, get up on a soap box. If you want to make a difference, do it one on one.

Such good points by all. Having grown up in the sixties, like Sharon, I too have seen my share of bigotry. Where I grew up, was all white, with two Latin families. My Dad was from "OLD" Texas, and very bigoted. I never knew why, but didn't dare ask. As soon as I graduated High School, I joined the Military, which was going through major civil rights changes. Bigotry was not tolerated, period!!! (Right!) The two extremes have mad me very aware of all sides, and I stand up whenever I feel the need. Being a very bacwards, redneck area where I am, haven't had to speak up for one of our sisters, but have for some black guys at seven eleven one night. Huggs, Bonnie

Excelent thread Julie,
I am defenitely now a defender but once, for fear of self-outing, I would generally keep quiet. We are treated as figures of fun and ridicule and the UK tabloid press are dreadful, mind you they have barely 2 brain cells to rub together.

The are fuelled by selling newspapers to the lowest demnominator in thier target markets- page 3 girls and football or hang 'em and flog 'em editorials depending on whehte they are working or middle class. Either way the TG community takes a hammering.

I would debate whether society, that is ordinary folk, would be the same as thier "opinion formers", as has been noted, often a TG/ TS girl will be left in peace in public. After all Big Brother in the UK was won by a post-OP TS girl..............

I can't speak from experience though, too scared to step out of bed room most of the time!!!

Thanks again for a thought provoking and intelligent post

Fiona
xx

Thank you all for responding to this thread, I'm amazed so many took the time to reply and I'm also pleased with the positive views. I shall as time permits read them through again as there was some interesting points made.

Thank you all

Julie J

It's interesting how many look I get from both men and women on the bus while I travel to and from work. I can just imagine when thos teen age girls get on, look stare adn then qhisper - I pay no mind to that, Lord only knows what they are thinking. Yes, my breasts do stick out a small ways. :) The help of a bra keeps then into nicely formed shape (thought I do wish that they were larger :)) Anyway, we should not care how we are percieved by others, what helps us is that we know what 'drives us' and our own nature within us.

Being new to this site, how I percieve all of us is that we are a support group - helping all of us together - united we stand, divided we fall. I still think we need a parade somewhere where we could all get together - I know, A CD convention! Now that would ne really neat to see all of us together - all dressed up!

To tell you the truth to heck with what other people think - even though I do need to get enough nerve to actually go out into public for more than 10 minutes at a time. :)