Uh-Oh! Inlaw troubles!

Something happened today that I just felt I had to share with all of you, to get some other reactions about. I feel that I may be too close to make a rational opinion on this.

Anyway, the thing is, I got a letter today from my oldest daughter, (snail mail) in which she told me why she and her husband came here for Christmas. I had assumed that it was just a normal decision to come here instead of staying in Chicago and celebrating with his family. It turns out, that his parents told them that they would rather not ever meet with my wife and I again when we visit up there, as they feel uncomfortable around me, and feel that our lifestyle is sinful. Now, my son-in-laws father is a minister, and I have met several that feel that any alternative lifestyle is a sin, but I think they could have found a way to express themselves that didn't hurt my daughter so much. My son-in-law was wonderful, stood up for us and my daughter, told his parents that he felt their prejudice was more of a sin than our lifestyle, and that they were coming here for the holidays since they didn't feel comfortable with their attitude.

Now, the thing is, I have pretty much decided to ask them to forgive his parents, and let it go. I do not want them, or especially my son-in-law to have a serious falling-out with his parents over this. My wife is a more aggressive personality, and feels we should confront this head on.

It is my feeling that people only change when they want to, and nothing we say will be listened to. Further, I believe that my daughter and son-in-law can have a loving relationship with them even if they hold this opinion against my daughters parents.

What is your thoughts on all of this?

Bethany - I think that it is telling that the in-laws chose to tell your daughter and son-in-law about their feelings about you rather than telling you directly. I have experienced a lot of heartache in my life because of such poor and indirect communication. If they feel so strongly, why not speak directly to you and your wife? I would probably choose your response, but who knows? I think you are right to consider what the situation might do to the son-in-law's relationship with his parents. What does he want to do?
I wish you the best in figuring this out.
Talon:happy:

I absolutely agree with you, Bethany -- and I commend you for your attitude. I'm sure your son-in-law's feelings towards his parents has been changed by their opinions, but that doesn't mean that the love he feels for them is just entirely erased -- maybe just some of his respect.

Similar things to this is going on in my family right now, and it isn't easy, believe me. You just need to let these ignorant idiots be -- they ain't worth the effort nor emotion. If they come around, fine, but they're on their own.

Hey girl, I jsut have to say that your daughter and her hubby sound like wonderful folks. What ever you and yoru SO did...well you did a fine job.

I think the polite thing is to do what you are asking. I mean it is sweet of them to stick up for you both. That shows just who is more of a good person..obviosly his folks suck in that regard. It is hard when there is extended family and they can't just let things be. I can see our daughter when she grows up being just as defensive of us. She has a very strong will!

Anyway, they have to decide to do what is best for them in the end. Saying what you have said is all you can do, they have to ultimatly make the decision to make nice with his folks or stand their ground. I think even if they play along with his parents, well you know where their heart lies in the matter, and really that is all that is important.

You are so right, confrontation will get no where. Their minds are made up, facts will not change them, only time and a lot of it can maybe do that.

Your son-in law is wonderful. You should be very thankful that he reacted in the way that he did. If you confront his parents about this, it will only make things worse for him, you daurgter and you.

I think that they are looking at some Old Testament scriptures to come to the conculsion that they have made. When people start picking OT passage to use aganist others, they can be difficult at best to deal with.

Support your son-in-law and daughter, they are the ones who are caught in the middle of all this and they are the ones who will live in it when yoiu are not around.

Not too long ago I heard a new term for special in-laws, and I think that it may apply here. He is your "son-in-love"not in-law. It is clear that he loves and cares for your daughter. Law didn't do that, love did -- so love him back.

TTFN
Cyndie

Hi Bethany,

I think you have it right, a confrontation with your inlaws would only hurt your kids that are caught in the middle loving both sets of parents.

You have such a wonderful attitude, it is an inspiration to me.

Come to think of it....you have a christian way of turning the other cheek. Let it go, and include a prayer for the minister and his wife.

Have fun out there!

You're so cool. And so are your kids.

I agree with you. But just as it's up to your son's parents to want to change, so it is with their son, and your daughter. They're adults too and will make their decisions based on where they stand. But I also commend you on your attitude and insight.

I tend to avoid conflict so I don't think it's fair for me to comment on your wife's attitude (bless her), because I would chose your road. When you confront someone who is stuck in the sand you just tend to either hurt them or yourselves. Far better to be there on hand in case they want to dig themselves out.

:hugs: :love:

Wow Bethany, A Merry Christmas to All. I think you should act in the most loving supportive way you can for your daughter and son-in-law. You should tell them how proud you are of them, and ask them what if anything you can do to support them. Confronting people of narrow minds accomplishes nothing. I am an expert. Ironic that the people who hold themselves up as the teachers don't understand the message. Love thy neighbor as thyself.

I should point out that my wife is a forcefull woman, a lawyer, and a self-made-woman. Also, she loves our daughter more than life itself. She has always believed in doing something about a problem, fixing it. I love her so, and it has worked for her in her life most of the time. She has what she set out to get, a fast-track career, seven wonderful children, a good lifestyle, and most important to me, she has me. I do not fault her instincts, I just think this is one of those rare problems in which doing nothing may be best...

Have the same thing with my former inlaws myself, they used to think that I was the greatest thing that came into their daughter's life only to be shunned and the outcast when they found out about me being TG. They like my former wife are born again christians and believe that people like ourselves are sinners, immoral, and are going to burn in hell for eternity. Will if that is how God truely is than he is no God of mine, of course not! God loves us all regardless we are all his children and includes gay, staight, and everything in between.

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Originally Posted by Bethanygirl

Something happened today that I just felt I had to share with all of you, to get some other reactions about. I feel that I may be too close to make a rational opinion on this.

Anyway, the thing is, I got a letter today from my oldest daughter, (snail mail) in which she told me why she and her husband came here for Christmas. I had assumed that it was just a normal decision to come here instead of staying in Chicago and celebrating with his family. It turns out, that his parents told them that they would rather not ever meet with my wife and I again when we visit up there, as they feel uncomfortable around me, and feel that our lifestyle is sinful. Now, my son-in-laws father is a minister, and I have met several that feel that any alternative lifestyle is a sin, but I think they could have found a way to express themselves that didn't hurt my daughter so much. My son-in-law was wonderful, stood up for us and my daughter, told his parents that he felt their prejudice was more of a sin than our lifestyle, and that they were coming here for the holidays since they didn't feel comfortable with their attitude.

Now, the thing is, I have pretty much decided to ask them to forgive his parents, and let it go. I do not want them, or especially my son-in-law to have a serious falling-out with his parents over this. My wife is a more aggressive personality, and feels we should confront this head on.

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It is my feeling that people only change when they want to,

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and nothing we say will be listened to. Further, I believe that my daughter and son-in-law can have a loving relationship with them even if they hold this opinion against my daughters parents.

What is your thoughts on all of this?

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i agree with you, i too grew up in the church and i had a very bad time dealing with who i am. just because i knew this type of thing would happen Bethany i think that you and your oldest daughter should just let it go .. funny thing is i just came back from choir practice, all i can say is thank god for affirming congregation...
Bethany you and your's are a wonderful couple with wonderful children , just shake it off and flush it, life is too short...
love marissa

Sounds like you've got the right idea to me, Bethany.

Your wife's idea has merit as well, if they will even talk to you, and your wife can remain somewhat non-confrontational.

Hand them a new testiment and ask them to point out one time Jesus turned anyone away for being different.

Bookmark Matthew 7:1 and Luke 6:37 and ask them to read the verses aloud.

Bethney you have a great son-in-low I think you have the right outlook on this a minister should nit be like that.
I don't like people that think there way is the only way :hugs:
Angie

Your son in-laws parents are chicken in my view. They should have the courage of their convictions and have told you face to face. Not dump this on the kids. I look at it this way. They are the one's who are missing out. You and your kids are acting more Christian that the in-laws.

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Originally Posted by Bethanygirl

It turns out, that his parents told them that they would rather not ever meet with my wife and I again when we visit up there, as they feel uncomfortable around me, and feel that our lifestyle is sinful.

What is your thoughts on all of this?

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So much for the Good Christian values in these people?

We have all met them and I have always replied with the same answer,

So far in my life I have not found God, I've been to church, and I basically live by christian rules, ie I don't steal, I work hard to provide for my family, I try to think of the good in people, I try to help a stranger in need, as much as I would help my best friend, I've had good times in my life, and bad times in my life, when I have asked for help, normally it seems to have gone un noticed but other avenues tend to open to find a solution, there for I don't know if thats good fortune at times in need, or my God!

However if God is my creator, then he made me what I am, not only the male person, but all of me, ie the (partner of my long term girlfriend, the father of my children, and the crossdresser I occationally like to be) and yes we do live in sin, if that be living together happily for 14 years, making our own comitments to each other, having both exchanged wedding vows with other people that had no respect for those vows! (our vows may not have been carried out in church) but we still live by them for each other, not just because of a piece of paper!


So if God is my creator, why did he make me this way, Why do I enjoy what I do so much, if he did not want me to do it, and if by some strange chance this is a test, why give me a test he knows I will surely fail. I'm sure my God would not thing or work like that?

Bethany I'm not going to give you advice .You'll get plenty good and bad.I just want to say that i think you have a good outlook and are thinking with your head and not letting your emotion's rule. you are an exceptional person.Good luck with this and your daughter got a good husband by the sounds.....Justabit

You have a wonderful daughter and a top notch son in law...awesome.....and I agree with you as the best way to deal with the in-laws....good luck.

As a former minister I will just say that your attitude is more Christlike than theirs. God called his children to "hate sin but love the sinner" (please note I did not say dressing is a sin). Unless you were asking him to dress with you or being disrespectful to God in language there was no reason to be uncomfortable and push you aside.

BTW, lawyers don't change people and their attitudes, love does.


Emily Ann

Bethany....I think your daughter made a heck of a catch....and I think that your son-in-law has great respect for man kind.....I agree....that there should be no grudges held towards these other people...and I also agree that this ministers ignorance is just a sin and someone PAAALEASE show me where all this crap that society says is a SIN is listed at in the bible.....cause I have read and know well the 10 Commandments....but all this add on crap is not listed in the version I have reviewed......I admire your family Bethany.....and I admire you for being the bigger man......Kudos to you and I do hope that your son-in-law does look past the small world around him and sees the bigger picture that you are trying to show him......xoxoxoxC/

as you will see my wife and i disagree on this area...i would feel bad if i was the reason for a falling out between my son-in-law and his parents...but only for a second...then i would realize that it isnt me or my lifestyle choices (?) bs what choice...but that it is them and their narrow minded, predjudiced ways that are causing this...you are correct...nothing anyone says will change them or the way they see this or many other things...to hit it head on will just cause them to rally the troops and your daughter may find out more of what these people really think of the world...and i would bet that wont be pretty...in my opinion, and this is only mine and i have done the same with my own father since i was 15...i dont care who you are, family, friend or foe...you treat me like shyt...judge me, look down on me...anything in this realm...well, i will allow you to have you opinion...just wont associate with you...ill walk away and never look back and leave you to your miserable tidy little world...saw my father last year for the first time since 15, at my mothers funeral...he didnt recognize me...of course he did not recognize his grandchild either, my son...and he didnt even know he existed...and after learning he had cornered my wife and gotten my address and phone number i approached him and told him to lose them, not to even consider ever using them...that he had not been there for me as a child and i damnn sure didnt need him there as an adult...he made his decision years ago to walk away...so just continue on that path...i am not mad at him...my mother did a wonderful job of raising us alone...but i dont forgive and forget such selfish things...am i in need of medical transportation....lol...yes and much more im sure...but this is how ive always lived my life and as far as i know has served me well...

anyway, the point of all that rambling...let his parents be the way they are...when they never get the opportunity to meet their grandchildren...maybe then they will come to the table with a different more accepting view of the world their son, your daughter you and your wife...maybe not...their loss tho...gary

Girls, correct me if I mis-quote this but, isn't there a verse in the bible that says: "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"

I don't care if he is a minster or not,he lives on this rock called earth and we're all sinners...

...in other words in West Virginia dialect..."Don't throw rocks if you live in a glass house ":2c:

He may need to sit down and do some serious talking with his lord, cause the one I know has a lot more tolerance than he is showing...and those holyer than thous wonder why the world is going to helll:Angry3:

I take a more middle ground on this one. There is no reason to be confrontational, but this is a good chance for some education. My wife asked a question of our counselors and I think it is a great question to ask very religious people like this. This is one of the questions she asked very early on in our first session with each.

" Is there anything in the Bible against Cross dressing? "

And I would add to that, only the cross dressing and none of the things that many in society think cross dressing is or associate with cross dressing. These are issues separate from the cross dressing and most of these add-ons are found in the general society also.

If/when they say yes, then ask them if they could point it out to you. They will not be able to do it, unless they only pick parts of a verse. Only the whole verse gives the full and true meaning. If they pick just a small part of a versus, ask them to read the whole verse or chapter and if they would explain the meaning and/or purpose of the whole verse or chapter.

I did this with my Christian based counselor. She tried to tie many of the text book and society thoughts of what a CDer was on me. And for the most part I said that yes there are some CDers like that, and many non-CDers also do this, but myself and many CDers are not like that just like many in the general society are not. I do not believe this to be a CDer related issue but that of general society. I gave her a totally different view of what a CDer was. I was not in her text book or what she was taught.

I can sure be long winded. I guess what I am trying to say, Yes I would say something in a non-confrontational way. A card maybe saying something like "We are sorry you feel this way about us. Would you educate us where the basis for these feelings comes from." And then go from there.

Do not try lecture them or put down their views. But ask information seeking questions about their stands and if they can point to specific points in the scripture to support them. The who, what, why and where questions can be your guide. The hardest thing to do will be to help them separate cross dressing from other things they will tag on. Like I said above a statement I used often was, there are some CDers like that, and many non-CDers also do this, but myself and many CDers are not like that just like many in the general society are not. I do not believe this to be a CDer related issue but that of general society.

Do not ever talk bad about their views, but only state your views and point out the relationship you see to the general society.

This worked for me and maybe it will work for you or someone else reading this.

I wish you the best of luck and please keep us up to date.

KimberlyS

Hello everyone, thank you for your posts and support, I really do love all of you. Well, my daughter will call me back after her classes this afternoon so we can talk, (she is getting her masters at the University of Chicago). So we will talk then, and I will let you all know how it goes...
Thanks again everyone!
:love:

Hi Bethany,

I agree with your feelings. Locking horns with your son-in-law's parents will only drive people further apart.

It's great that your daughter and son-in-law are ready to go to bat for you, but it would only make things worse, in all likelihood.

Carol:hugs:

Bethany, yes your right, there is nothing in this world that will alter their opinion and, if it was only brief visits between both sets of parents once every blue moon then it's not something i would get greatly worked up about, however, i think you're going to have make sure this doesn't get blown out of all proportion between the kids and the in-laws, but judging by what i've read it doesn't sound it will, good luck anyway. Sharon. xxx

Hi Bethany, Love and support for our children is what we can do best; being there in times of need to help them. Unconditional love is the foundation of
God's mighty kingdom.
It never ceases to amaze me how people who profess to talk to god don't here a work he says. If they did, they would not be so quick to bring out their axe and chop at his pillars. Nothing is for free though; everthing has a price.
I know this must have created a lot of hurt. I'm sorry.

:hugs: :hugs:

Penny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Bethanygirl

Something happened today that I just felt I had to share with all of you, to get some other reactions about. I feel that I may be too close to make a rational opinion on this.

Anyway, the thing is, I got a letter today from my oldest daughter, (snail mail) in which she told me why she and her husband came here for Christmas. I had assumed that it was just a normal decision to come here instead of staying in Chicago and celebrating with his family. It turns out, that his parents told them that they would rather not ever meet with my wife and I again when we visit up there, as they feel uncomfortable around me, and feel that our lifestyle is sinful. Now, my son-in-laws father is a minister, and I have met several that feel that any alternative lifestyle is a sin, but I think they could have found a way to express themselves that didn't hurt my daughter so much. My son-in-law was wonderful, stood up for us and my daughter, told his parents that he felt their prejudice was more of a sin than our lifestyle, and that they were coming here for the holidays since they didn't feel comfortable with their attitude.

Now, the thing is, I have pretty much decided to ask them to forgive his parents, and let it go. I do not want them, or especially my son-in-law to have a serious falling-out with his parents over this. My wife is a more aggressive personality, and feels we should confront this head on.

It is my feeling that people only change when they want to, and nothing we say will be listened to. Further, I believe that my daughter and son-in-law can have a loving relationship with them even if they hold this opinion against my daughters parents.

What is your thoughts on all of this?

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Bethany,

No question the tact you propose is the best. Regardless of if they are reasonable people or not, YOU don't want to be the cause for causing a split in his family. It also happens that the tact you are proposing to take is the truly Christian way to go, something they may some day come to respect, and even if they don't, your Son in Law will.
Kim

Bethany,

Looks like a consensus to me....

You are doing the right thing. You have a wonderful son-in-law and daughter. You need to be compassionate, loving and caring even in his parents can't be. It is one of those things that you can not change...their attitude. They must change it....you will help change their attitude by handling it compassionately. I feel sorry for them myself... They don't really understand. They are (excuse me for saying it) ignorant!

Best wishes.... You are a wonderful person for taking the stand that you have chosen!:love:

Well gang, hi again! I just got off the phone with my daughter, and we had a talk about all of this. First off, even though she knew better, she said she wrote me the letter because she didn't want her other mother to find out. I guess she forgot, because she knows I tell Loretta everything, she didn't want to cause upset, but wanted me to know so I could make sure not to suggest a visit with her inlaws. Oh well...

Anyway, she told me that her response was the same as mine, and she thought they should just let it go, and was just letting me know the score. However, her husband wouldn't listen to her about it and was mad at his folks, and let them know, and made the decision to come here for Christmas. Now I guess they are all steamed at each other, and my daughter has been trying to get all of them to lighten up on each other. She told her inlaws that she wasn't upset about it, and that she could understand their discomfort about her unusual family. I guess things are alright between her and them, but there is still friction between their son and themselves. Sigh...

So that is how it stands, my daughter tells me that my son-in-law is just feeling awful about this, so I am going to call him tonight and try to get him to understand that it is ok with me. I know that sometimes the ones we love upset us with their views, but we still love them and have to take the parts that we don't like with the parts we do like. I will let you know how that talk went since you have all been with me on this so far. Thank you all for your concern and support;
Bethany
:love:

Bethany,

Your instincts and intuition are very good. You don't need any help and your son-in-law sounds too smart and caring to make all that much of a fuss with his parents in the long run. Things will settle down some. The only thing you probably could do is to re-assure your son-in-law that you understand where his parents are, as they say, coming from and that you're not bitter over it. It seems like he's reacting from some embarrassment over this that is unfounded.

Your wife sure is protective of you. That's very nice. You're very lucky.

Warm regards,
Christina Nicole

Well, I talked to my son-in-law, and I think we had a nice conversation. He told me that he was mad at his parents because he knew what a nice person I am, and because he has come to love me, (that boy is getting something VERY nice for his birthday next month from me!). We discussed him just letting it go and not getting divided over it in their family, and while he said he thought the whole thing was unfair, he agreed that he loved his parents, and didn't want to fight with them.
So anyway, all seems right in whoville again, thanks bunches for all of your support!

I :love: you guys!