The 60's had a revolution for womens rights. Now we need a revolution for mens rights

We had the revolution for Women rights some 30 years ago.

Now it's time for us to truly evolve and do the same for Men!
Sounds odd, we have all the rights we want right? No, we don't.

Try to express your femininity and wear a dress in public, get a job in one, go out to a mall and go in for a make over.

Try to get a job in a Casino as a waitress.

Look at statistics of murders and guess who tops the list of victims!

Men are the last to be free...

...and who are are suppressors?

...We men are!

We need the right to be feminine, all humans have a feminine and a masculine side.

If you feel you desire to live feminine and be a woman, than by all means you should have the right to live as one if thats how you feel.

The world needs to allow a man to be a woman to truly have peace and unity.

Check out this myspace with links to this revolution.

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm...endid=28809086

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Originally Posted by Stephanie H

Men are the last to be free...

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Interested to know how you come up with that theory. :confused:

Uh... I'm pretty left wing and I know we're all here to be supportive to one another...
But it seems to me we men have been pretty much running the show for many centuries.

Now if you're trying to confront/escape from narrow minded, animalistic, pig-headed, prejudiced, knee jerk male brutality then your femme side and this forum are great places to start. Revolutions tend to end badly, I think what you're after is a greater conciousness, raising the vibration (as is were).

Just don't forget we're all human. Girl can act like jackasses sometimes too.

We know what The Who say about revolutions, don't we NewBetty? We won't get fooled again!

It's a nice thought, Stephanie, but I don't think a "revolution" as you call it is what is needed. Sure, we can hold demonstrations, and force people to accept us that way, but that isn't really acceptance. What we want to do is educate the public about who we are, let them see that we are no threat, and let the revolution happen within each person as an individual. That way, while we may never reach total acceptance (there will always be those who oppose what we do), people will have freely chosen to accept us and so the acceptance we find will be all the more real in that way.
:2c:

Hope that made sense...

Okay, this is all fine and good but this has been talked about before. Bottom line is that I'm fine and freely express myself and don't feel "oppressed" at all. I always tend to raise my eyebrow at this kind of stuff and say:"Okey, dokey, you first" and let me see how you do. As far as I'm concerned , I already won the battle a few years ago and feeling great. BTW Hon, I rather be a female CEO than a waitress at a casino, although the waitress probably has a lot more fun.;) :battingeyelashes:

Can you try to look at it from a transexual's point of view?

Can I wear a dress and get a job or can your father do that?

Can your brother go out in public in a dress if he feels like thats what he wants to do and be safe.

The odds of a transexual getting killed in this society is far higher then any other minority. We get arrested for no reason, we get beat up for no reason, we can't get a job even when were skilled in the fields we are applying for, we get spit on on a daily basis, maybe this sounds familiar?

Maybe it was a statement not ready to be heard by others who feel that is not true. I don't care about what color the man or woman is if they are transexed they are not tollorated in this society.

I have an 18.0% chance of dying by murder by hate crime, the average is for everyone else .0013%

I think being a man who expresses his femininity is more dangerous than you know.

...and only way for that to change is for the male side of the human race is to evolve. In ALL ways!

Their must be a reason why crossdressers, transexuals, feminine men are dying by hate crime more then any other minority percentage wise than any other minority ever.

I have a very very high rate of being subjected to a hate crime. It's so high I if I were to go to a normal neighborhood pub looking like a man in a dress I would end up getting the @^@&# beat out of me.

I think that suppression is caused by the lack of understanding of the other being or trying to understand.

Society does not allow men to go and see what the other side is like and is punished for doing so.

All fences need to be taken down, and maybe you don't see this as I do I think men all around the world would be better off if we let other men be what they want to be. We would understand others better if we didn't hide are inner self from everyone out of fear.

Fear is the main word here, fear is what has suppressed every society. I think men from every corner needs to change as they are fearful of lossing power or some other selfish reseaon. I really don't know why men are this way myself but the fear is if they allow other men to as I think they may think "regress" into something weaker. Which I dissagree with but I think that is what goes thru most male minds. Most men will "teach" other men to not be weak and show it by beating them up and ridiculing them.

To be open minded and experience all are feelings is important.

I am going on and on,
...if I have offended you I am sincerly sorry.

oh BABY! That was beautifully said, Salandra.

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Originally Posted by Salandra

Okay, this is all fine and good but this has been talked about before. Bottom line is that I'm fine and freely express myself and don't feel "oppressed" at all. I always tend to raise my eyebrow at this kind of stuff and say:"Okey, dokey, you first" and let me see how you do. As far as I'm concerned , I already won the battle a few years ago and feeling great. BTW Hon, I rather be a female CEO than a waitress at a casino, although the waitress probably has a lot more fun.;) :battingeyelashes:

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Hun, you can't be a watress in a casino. Well most casino's, Harrah's Las Vegas had one. One casino in Vegas out of about 200 of them.

They make up to $150,000 a year, most make around $70,000.

I will log now and see what kinda chaos I have started later..lol

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Originally Posted by Stephanie H

I have an 18.0% chance of dying by murder by hate crime, the average is for everyone else .0013%

I think being a man who expresses his femininity is more dangerous than you know.

...

Their must be a reason why crossdressers, transexuals, feminine men are dying by hate crime more then any other minority percentage wise than any other minority ever.

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Just throwing this out there as a possibility, to demonstrate that things are not always as they seem, especially with regards to statistics. I feel that maybe it is possible that ALL crimes against minorities have been drastically reduced, and that crimes against CDs, TSs, and feminine men are only more common by virtue of the fact that they are being reduced at a slower rate.

I honestly believe that while society is not completely accepting, it is now more accepting than it ever has been. I also believe that you cannot force people to change how they feel. If there are men that would beat you up for being what you are, and they are doing it out of fear, then trying to force anything on them is just going to make matters worse, and in some ways, if things turn really ugly, prove their fears to be true.

This is why I said earlier that what must be done is education, not a revolution. Let people see the facts for themselves, let us, the transgendered and transexual community, get genuine acceptance rather than try to force the rest of the world to accept us. I'd rather have someone like me for who I am than pretend to like me and secretly hate me any day.

Oh Stephanie, you have not offended me, please : you have a right to express yourself. In fact, in essence I think we're all on the same page here (literally,LOL) in that we need to be able to express this feminine side of ourselves to whatever degree is necessary for each individual.

Try looking at it this way: to live in fear is to be a victim in waiting. You're already suffering. And what you want is a worldwide raising of a peaceful conciousness of universal acceptance. Educating all so no fear or opression can result from misunderstanding.It's a wonderful goal.

I'm afraid my worldview holds no hope for it ever being realized. I believe we must strive to complete this work within ourselves.

I'm not offended in the least Stephanie, in fact I whole heartedly agree with what you are saying. The problem is people, ideologies and just plain stubbornness. How can you get men to change their thinking, when in some parts of the world, there are different beliefs and different factions in the same neighborhood who just want to blow the bejesus out of each other? It's not just the good old USof A we are talking about here, although that is bad enough. Also, suppose you did succeed in swaying public opinion? You are always going to have someone who is going to lead a counter-revolution because they refuse to accept it and never will and will fight to their dying breath to uphold that. That is the way people are, you are not going to change them.Like most have said, it's better to be a good example and demystify TG and CD issues one person at a time and show we are not a bunch of sick weirdos. That is how hearts and thinking are really won and is more long lasting. Like it or not, we are part of the human race for better or worse and that is the reality.:happy:

Oh, men's issues ARE in need of attention. It's not surprising that it's difficult to find sympathy out there for this cause though. When feminists first started to clamor for more rights, they were opposed by men and women.

Something that bothers me about this too is that it's always said that men are the ones doing ALL the oppressing, and it's not true. Yes, men are still largely in the positions of highest power, but this does not mean that women don't play a part in all this. Oppression, of BOTH genders, comes from both sides. Men and women both enforce gender roles and gender stereotypes.

Like with dating for instance, gender roles are still pretty stratified. Men are expected to take the initiative, and women expected to agree or disagree. Fortunately, this has loosened somewhate, largely in thanks to feminism. What is expected and allowed of women has expanded greatly since days past. What is expected of men is still mostly the same though. We tell girls they can be anything they want when they grow up. We point out role models for them. Where are the male role models in traditionally feminine careers?

It really shouldn't have to be pointed out to crossdressers: Men aren't as free as people say we are. We have all the legal freedoms of women, but we have a long way to go to gain social freedoms.

In the end, all of us, women and men, stand to gain by paying attention to men's issues. Women are undervalued in part because men are taught to belittle women's values. When we teach men to embrace them, when we allow men to embrace them, women stand to gain too.

Men's issues are feminism's way forward. They're the logical next step. The way to the future is together, not seperately.

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Originally Posted by Salandra

Also, suppose you did succeed in swaying public opinion? You are always going to have someone who is going to lead a counter-revolution because they refuse to accept it and never will and will fight to their dying breath to uphold that. That is the way people are, you are not going to change them.Like most have said, it's better to be a good example and demystify TG and CD issues one person at a time and show we are not a bunch of sick weirdos. That is how hearts and thinking are really won and is more long lasting. Like it or not, we are part of the human race for better or worse and that is the reality.:happy:

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This is my :2c:
We as a group are to blame as well. We still hide before we get out the door. How can we accept ourselves, if we worry about what other people think? How can society accept us if we can't accept our selves?
We can't change anything if we can't get out there. We have to set a good example. We need to be the ones to change the ideas of others, 1 person at a time. We can't change feelings by screaming, and demanding, society does not change like that. It's the individuals we reach, when we show them that we are just another person, with the same feelings, needs, and desires. Individually we all carry the torch of change, and we must carry it with pride! We are who we are, so what? We need to get out there with dignity, even just the few of us, to set the example to others who might be unaware, of who we really are. Everyone we meet for the good, makes a little change. We do this for ourselves, and the ones that are not able to it for themselves.
Just my :2c:

I think it's more of a need of exposure of what we are by speaking up and getting more in the mainstream.

I see all over myspace that younger people are actually supportive and transgender is growing quite fast amoung the young.

People have accepted gay rights and homosexuality to a great degree compared to twenty years ago.

Now the next step I hope for is that same acceptance be for the transgendered.

Even minorities of homosexuals feel a level of dislike the same way to wards the transgendered as the heteros.

Gay awareness is a prime example of how fighting for rights works. Now they teach it in grade schools that gay people are people just like you and me.

That same educational system that has made it now that hate crime against them is almost nil compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago.

I believe the fire has already started and the movement for the rights for a man to be feminine is on the move as you can type transgendered in myspace search and find many activists fighting for the rights to dress femininely and act femininely. It's only human as both sexes are both male and female fundamentally any way.

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Originally Posted by Shelly R

This is my :2c:
We as a group are to blame as well. We still hide before we get out the door. How can we accept ourselves, if we worry about what other people think? How can society accept us if we can't accept our selves?
We can't change anything if we can't get out there. We have to set a good example. We need to be the ones to change the ideas of others, 1 person at a time. We can't change feelings by screaming, and demanding, society does not change like that. It's the individuals we reach, when we show them that we are just another person, with the same feelings, needs, and desires. Individually we all carry the torch of change, and we must carry it with pride! We are who we are, so what? We need to get out there with dignity, even just the few of us, to set the example to others who might be unaware, of who we really are. Everyone we meet for the good, makes a little change. We do this for ourselves, and the ones that are not able to it for themselves.
Just my :2c:

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It's not kicking and screaming.
It's about confrontation yes but like the candidates running for election. They have to speak or they will never be elected because they will never be heard.

I am doing just that by challenging your current mindset in hopes to open the mind to new things and new awareness.
I challenge others to think in a different way and come to create their own new ideas on their own. To think change is possible and not impossible. To think maybe some day “we” can go out side those doors without fear.
Maybe go out and find it was silly not to do so earlier in life as we have been wasting are time wondering what we would feel like, would we have felt free, would we have felt liberated. Please don’t be afraid and hide yourself, don’t hide from yourself, don’t hide and bury the feelings you have inside to later make you feel worse. Maybe you'll hate it and go back in and never want to go out dressed again.

I know that some here on this forum often say stuff like “You are always going to have someone who is going to lead a counter-revolution because they refuse to accept it and never will and will fight to their dying breath to uphold that.”

I knew what I was doing by using the word revolution.

It made you defensive and think more in depth I hope and possibly made you think outside the box or try to look thru the eyes of another.

If I did make you or another individual think by the way I did this I succeeded.

Saying things that at times seem harsh or outlandish is just like taking up arms as it helps take down the barriers of trained and conditioned thought and I believe that are own self conditioning needs to be checked and re-checked again from time to time to refresh are consciousness. That is the revolution I am speaking of. My goal is to raise a higher awareness.

I know their will always be a counter revolution. Look at the civil war. Even today people in this country look at are flag with disgust that the south did not win the civil war and they want to see the Southern-cross for a flag and have the capitol in Virginia or in Texas.

Some countries still want to burn the schools down and have every one just work in fields and send rice to the palace on a monthly basis.

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Originally Posted by Stephanie H

People have accepted gay rights and homosexuality to a great degree compared to twenty years ago.

Now the next step I hope for is that same acceptance be for the transgendered.

Even minorities of homosexuals feel a level of dislike the same way to wards the transgendered as the heteros.

Gay awareness is a prime example of how fighting for rights works. Now they teach it in grade schools that gay people are people just like you and me.

That same educational system that has made it now that hate crime against them is almost nil compared to 20, 30, 40 years ago.

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Hmm, I don't know where you live, but in Florida, Gay, is still a dirty word.

According to recent statistics, there are more Gay people being assalted and killed, then ever before.

The Hillsborough County Commisioners, made it against the law, to print, recognise or even say the word, Gay, by any county employee.

As far as FBI crime statistics go, phooy. There are only seven states that require that crimes against Gay or TG people, get reported. The rest of the states don't bother.

The first thing the Christians did, when coming to North America, was to kill all the Medicine Men (Two Spirit people, the equivelent of todays Gay and TG people) because they had both female and msale traits and were considered a threat to the Church.

We, as people, have a long way to go.

There are lots of civil rights problems and what affects one person diminishes us all. Admitedly I do know of circumstances when affirmative action has been taken to too much of an extreme. When I was going through highschool I got on well with several teachers and one, a woman, told me of a new policy. The teacher was only to help a male student once all female students had been assisted. This was supposed to stop forcefull young boys from dominating the teachers attention and to raise the academic success of girls up to the level of boys especially in maths and science. My teacher was upset with this as she thought herself competant in determining who in the class was struggling and to help them in order of need.

About three years ago I heard a report talking about the crisis in boys education in Australia. Girls were substantially out performing boys academically and boys education levels were in freefall. I heard only a small amount of media comment, much of it from people defending affirmative action. Now I consider myself a feminist, and a masculinist. I am in favour of affirmative action but there are points when ideological blinkers are a bad thing and a freefall in academic success, swaping the success of one group for the other, is not equality.

Then there are the outrages amongst the family courts where sexist attitudes are considered not just acceptable but lauded.

I heartily agree that some men are dominant in society. Much of 'normal' masculine culture that I have experienced (in rural Australia) has been little more than a pecking order of thugery and exagerated bravado where any deviation from the norm is not tolerated. That's why all my male friends are geeks and nerds. Look at formal wear for men. Slight variations on a standard suit.. clearly much of male culture is still a strictly conformist one. On many levels that is changing which is good, but there is a long way to go.

There are plenty of problems and inequality still facing women in the develeoped world and I wholeheartedly support the struggle for equality and fairness. Men may still have some advantages in western society, that does not mean that men are totally free. The rise of the metrosexual trend is perhaps a sign of hope. Of men throwing off the shackles of enforced behaviour.
Will burn the suit become the equivalent of burn the bra? I don't think so, but I do hope for a day that we can all stand up for the same basic principles of individual freedom of expression, career, education, fair recognition and equality.

So is it time to burn our Bra's then :heehee: :rolleyes: :tongueout

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Originally Posted by Leah B

Oh, men's issues ARE in need of attention. It's not surprising that it's difficult to find sympathy out there for this cause though. When feminists first started to clamor for more rights, they were opposed by men and women......Oppression, of BOTH genders, comes from both sides. Men and women both enforce gender roles and gender stereotypes.

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Yes that is an important point many women were oppoosed to the women's rights movement. It shows how powerful gender conditioning is when you can oppose the liberation of your own gender. The struggle here is liberal progressive ideas against traditional, conservative ideas. It is conservative men and women who want to keep the status quo that the crossdressing community has to fight against.

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In the end, all of us, women and men, stand to gain by paying attention to men's issues. Women are undervalued in part because men are taught to belittle women's values. When we teach men to embrace them, when we allow men to embrace them, women stand to gain too.

Men's issues are feminism's way forward. They're the logical next step. The way to the future is together, not seperately.

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Absolutely, women's lives would be dramatically improved if they gave up desiring traditional macho males and embraced feminine males. All that destructive macho BS which disrupts society would be thrown into the dustbin if women choose the right qualities in their mates. So far that has not happened. All the nice guys will tell you they are invisible when it comes to attracting women. And we need to raise boys to think about caring, giving, relationship based jobs and not just focus on earning money to be a success story to attract women and provide for families.

As for the feminist establishment, it is becoming increasingly irrelevant. It is an inherently sexist movement that was overrun by militants and whose message no longer rings true with reality. Its sole focus on women's issues to the detriment of men's has helped create a lopsided society which has hindered women as much as it has helped them. Society will only truely advance if everyone gets liberated. We need a new all encompassing movement.

One last word. Nobody here is oppressed. Anyone can walk out their house dressed anyway they want. As soon as you live in fear of the unknown, you develop a victimhood mentality where you revoke your responsibility for living life the way you want to and start blaming others for every misfortune in your life. Don't go there, you will just end up being miserable.

I should reinforce, not all feminism is anti-male, I've read some pieces of 'third wave' 'sex-positive' feminism that was certainly not anti male.

Also regarding nice guys Vs bad guys.. http://www.livescience.com/humanbiol...ile_women.html This article suggests that there is some biological determinism at work...

As for conservative vs liberal.. as a generalisation I'd agree with you, but having discovered the existence of the conservative gay movement I'm prepared to be surprised :)

Why mens rights, why womans rights, why not just plain and simple people rights. people's rights to be who they are ?????????????? or is that to darn simple

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Originally Posted by jess(SO)

Why mens rights, why womans rights, why not just plain and simple people rights. people's rights to be who they are ?????????????? or is that to darn simple

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You beat me to it, Jess, I was gonna say the same thing. Thank you. :thumbsup:

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Originally Posted by jess(SO)

Why mens rights, why womans rights, why not just plain and simple people rights. people's rights to be who they are ?????????????? or is that to darn simple

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Ditto Lex and Jess!!!!!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:


:smashcomp :strugglin :bonk:

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Originally Posted by jess(SO)

Why mens rights, why womans rights, why not just plain and simple people rights. people's rights to be who they are ?????????????? or is that to darn simple

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This reminds me of a sign I saw in Key West, it said,
"We Support Human Rights".

Of course, Key West aka "The Conch Republic", stood up for their rights, and had a face-off with the US Army.

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Originally Posted by jess(SO)

Why mens rights, why womans rights, why not just plain and simple people rights. people's rights to be who they are ?????????????? or is that to darn simple

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Well said :clap: