Would being labeled as gay be that bad?

O.K. So many people still think CDs are all gay.

Is that so bad?
Sure it's easy to be upset at being thought to be something you're not but, if you could be accepted as a CD, if you could go out in public dressed without concern for violence or discrimination but strangers assumed you were gay, would that be so bad?

Eventually close friends would learn you weren't gay. Your family would learn you weren't gay and eventually everyone you knew would learn it.

If you could be out and accepted but people thought at first that you were gay would it be worth it?

Is it just that we don't want to be misconstrued, is it that we don't want to bear the burden of anit-gay prejudice on top of anti-TG prejudice, is it that we fear our chances with women would be massively reduced or lost totally (isn't that already a worry at the moment?) or is there some degree of remnant homophobia that leads us to be so strident in our heterosexuality?

I'm sure there have been people that have seen me and thought, another flaming homo. I don't care, I'm secure in myself and know I'm not gay. They may think I am, but does it really matter what they think. Besides, I know they are wrong.

Despite the claims of "Gay Rights", I think that most Gay people are hated by the average "straight" person. Thus the fear of CDers being labeled as Gay.

On a side note, it seems to me, that most Gay people think Cders are "straight, married, republican, right-wing Bible thumpers, who can't be trusted".

As for personal experience, I was attending a Gay event and had a man, who I've known for four years, come up to me and whisper, "Your outfit looks very nice. By the way, I thought you were Gay. I didn't know you were one of
those people.' (CDs) And he's never talked to me again.

From everything I read and know, gay people have more rights and acceptance than cders. Some people may not like people that are gay but I think they still accept them. I also think it is easier to discriminate against a cder than it is a gay person. The company I work for, found out an employee was gay. The management staff (I am a manager) was told we were not aloud to displace him, they told us he is a permanent employee, short of committing a crime at work, and then they will need to talk to the legal department before they take any action. I guarantee that if they found out I was a cder they would find some kind of reason to fire me, late to work, to long of lunch, no longer productive in my position or some bs like that. I think being labeled gay in today’s society is better accepted than being labeled a cder, but I’m still proud to be labeled a cder. Just my 2 cents.
Jill

[SIZE="3"] I am not out at work but I know many think I am gay or Bi, (guess its's the long hair and earrings) we have had 2 openly gay women working in the office and I feel that is more accepted than a CD would be, by the comments I do recieve at times.[/SIZE]

Well, I'm bi so it doesn't matter a helluva lot if people think I'm gay. [BTW, some of the best souls I've known are gay.] I think what bothers me most about people's judgments towards crossdressers is that they consider us to be much less than either men or women. I hate that they see us as "defective" & "sick".

If they only knew that we are statistically among the highest I.Q.'s around, & are stronger than them in many ways because of being crossdressers in an intolerant society. If only they knew what all we had to offer such a weak, fearful society!

Hugz,

Veronica

To be honest the gay crowd is okay (in Aus anyway).

I went to a gay nightclub (as Suzy) with a friend some years ago in Melbourne. I found them all very friendly, very accepting, non judgemental and very good humoured. In fact the atmosphere in the club was much better and relaxed than a 'normal' club. I found them all very likeable even though I wasn't interested in being picked up by any of them.

In Australia most people are very tolerant of gays and also other minorities.

The general feeling here is everyone is entitled to 'a fair go'

I have nothing against gays, but I have enough other (unrelated) problems without having to deal with having to take on the additional social burdens associated with being considered something I am NOT.

Also, to quietly accept and not challenge that you may be mistakenly considered gay, in MY opinion, only aggrivates and supports the CD=Gay stereotype.

Besides, if you think about, it would you want to be represented in the public eye by a person who wasn"t even in your group? I can see why this would disturb gays---- a "crazy, outragous" CD could be an embarrasment to gays if the public concidered the CD as one of them.

I have 2 gay male friends and 4 lesbian friends and none of them think any differently of me than they think of other people, gay or straight. Maybe I just happened to pick cool friends, but the gay, straight, or CD labels never come up nor are they even insinuated in conversation. We're all just "people" and because of that, I feel pretty fortunate to call them "best friends." To answer the original question though, if someone thought I was gay, that would be OK with me, since I'm comfortable in knowing that I am a happily married straight person, and other people's perceptions don't matter much. So if it helped people accept me as a CD, sure, I don't care what people think. I'm comfortable in my own skin. :2c:

Whatever floats their boat Batty. Makes no never mind to me. A lot of people need a label to paste on everyone, so let them knock themselves out I say. I know who and what I am and so do most of my friends. Some folks simply cannot deal with the concept of a guy wearing a dress or presenting en femme without needing some kind of definate conclusion. It makes their world easier I guess and doesn't require much thought or , perish forbid, actually getting to know you as a person. Labels are a dime a dozen, people are unique and their value as such goes way beyond any classification. In a pure sense gay means happy anyway and most of us are happy when we can be ourselves, our persuasion notwithstanding. Works for me.:happy:

I am a strong advocate of gay rights up to and including gay marriage. But classifying t girls as gays does nothing for either gay rights or tg rights. Misunderstanding a cause does not lend clarity to issues surrounding it.

O.K. So many people still think CDs are all gay.

Is that so bad?


Yes it is because I am not gay.

And in my experience the majority of the gay community tolerate us but do not accept us.

We are only tagged onto the end of the gay scene because those that label us "society" do not know where to put us.

People also think we are wierdo's, perverts or childmolesters........are you still asking is that so bad?

The most homophobic people I know are CD's (at least here in Utah, part of the reason I lost my respect for triple letter sororities) (never paint with a broad brush). This is already a homophobic area and CD's don't want to be associated with or mistaken for gays. (Although they will frequent Gay Bars so they can go out dressed (Go Figure)

It was the Drag queens who stood at Stonewall, yet the Gay community has an uneasy tolerence for Drag Queens and Crossdressers. Even though the Royal Court is instrumental in Gay Charities, and Drag Shows are popular fund raisers there is a rift between the Queens and the Masculine or Male Gays. Although they share the same club areas, bathrooms and there is no overt hostility, they tend to socially stay somewhat aloof of each other. That is not to say there is no comraderie between them, but it is not a universal comraderie.

People who don't know me do assume I'm gay if they see me dressed, and as long as they don't get violent or can't take no for an answer it doesnt bother me

....as long as people leave me alone. There is nothing offensive for me if someone think I am gay.

[SIZE="2"]I don't care what people think I know the truth and thats all that counts. As long as there is no problems let them think what they want. [/SIZE]

My main concern would be lowering my chances with women in general.

What I found interesting last weekend, was I was with a few friends and got started talking about a gay bar one of the GGs frequents. One of the gay guys who was with us was like "Ew, I'm gay and I don't even like that bar. Too many drag queens." and the GG said "Awww, but I love watching drag queens. And there is this one who is actually straight, and married with kids, and they all come out to her shows."

They seemed to shocked that there could be a drag queen who was straight. I kind of stayed out of the conversation, as I was a little drunk and didn't want to accidentally out myself.

But like others have said, Gays are generally better accepted than TGs. Alot of my friends are cool with gay people, but they see a TG and they go wide eyed and say something like "Man, some people are messed up."

Some are - some are not - just like the non-dressing population. To me dressing makes me feel closer to women not men. I am not gay but I do support gay rights - "not just because of this little rant">>> I can't stand all of those macho dick head dudes that are out there and I will do anything to piss them off!!:devil:

no---It doens't bother Me a bit!

So, if you appear to be feminine at work and they assume your gay....is this a good thing?

I'm in management too, and I've heard the same thing, as stated earlier: "Leave that employee alone, he's gay and we don't want a lawsuit." Talk about job security!

And, many here don't think we need laws on the books that protect Gender Variant People....certainly not true if your a "worker bee." See how well it works for The Gay Community.

To answer your question, wouldn't it be a great world if we didn't indulge in "tagging" people with pseudo identities. Rather than being thought of as Gay or Straight, I would like to just be Joanie. Bet you would like to just be Sally, or Deidre, or Becky, or David......

Peace and Love, Joanie

Speaking from the perspective of a bisexual:

You have to remember that the door is open as the phrase is Lesbian Gay Bisexual Transgendered, However, it seems than MANY crossdressers don't view themselves as transgendered. The thought process seems to be folks think of themselves as genetic heterosexual males who just happen to like women's clothes. While I respect that and would not challenge it, I do wonder about it because it is easy to feel no alignment with LGBT folks. I suspect it would be better for all concerned if crossdressers did consider themselves part of the community. As long as various factions of the community are separated, it is much more difficult to move forward and gain acceptance and respect.

I thought this topic usually brings out the paranoia of some members.
Obviously we are ALL crossdressers, to some degee,
Some of us are "out of the closet" some of us are still hiding in there.
Some of us have significant others who know of our crossdressing,
( some are accepting, some are tolerant )
Some of us have significant others who have no clue about our dressing.
And yes, some of us, might be straight, might be bi, or might be gay.
Let's just accept each other,

I think it's our own rabid homophobia that makes us so afraid or unwilling to be labeled as gay. I have experienced a great deal of homophobia in the CD community as a whole. So many say, "Oh, I'm not gay, but I really want to experience love with another man while dressed". OK, if that's not homosexual behavior, what is?

Stephenie

I don't really care what anyone labels me. Truth is, I never did care for myself, I cared because of the impact people's thoughts might have on my family. I suppose it is necessary to define terms if we are going to consider other people's opinions. For example, I am married, absolutely love women, don't particularly feel anything for men. As a transgender and a crossdresser, I suppose loving women makes me gay, or lesbian if you prefer. The point is, we all use terms to mean different things and so communication becomes more difficult. If you are saying that it is easier if you love another man and be accepted in society, that may be so simply because of the exposure that gays have had and the battles they have fought and won. When we have had the courage to fight those same battles, we'll be better able to answer your question.

Errrrr yes coz I am not
To be honest it doesnt bother me what anyone wants to do in bed as long as they dont include me in it (take note them that have tried ) to be honest I think I am celabate and to be honest it is not worth the effort to be any different

no not at all if you were.... just as if you were you would not want to be called straight would you???........

People seem to like labels; consequently, a cross dresser - who to the uninformed may be difficult to define as either gay or straight - just has to fit somewhere. A lot of people may feel that if you are a man who likes to dress as a woman, then you must be gay. It’s a label, and like all labels there is often accompanying baggage.

Personally, it doesn’t bother me as I seem to fall into various categories so if someone thinks I am gay then all power to ‘em!

If someone chooses to see me as gay, be it an aquaintance or stranger, that's their problem, not mine. I've been called gay many times in the past. I prefer the company of women, but then I prefer the company of women socially also. I have gay aquaintances and I have straight aquaintances, to me, they're all just people. The only people I worry about are the serious homophobes who could become violent toward me, I stay out of places that people like that tend to go. I've had enough experience with that in the past, even when I was married with young kids.
I've found that some of the most rabid homophobes are "good Christian" fundamental Baptists, my ex father-in-law being one of those. A lot of the people in his church seem to have the same attitude toward gay and trans people. They are taught that brand of poison from a young age.
What I've discovered about homophobia in America is that it's largely silent, much like racial bigotry. It's there like an iceberg, you only see what's on the surface, not the huge mass that's hidden under the water of political correctness.
Will this ever change? I don't know!

There is nothing wrong with being gay.
There is nothing wrong with being a crossdresser.
I prefer not to be considered as gay because I am not gay, but a heterosexual crossdresser.

No.

I've already been down that road. When I was a lot younger I was considered quite good looking by most females but I was so shy and unconfident I never pursued them even when they were giving me an obvious green light. I also usually rebuffed the advances of the more aggressive girls because I was so afraid of being a disappointment to them. It didn't take long for it to get around that I must be gay since any "normal" guy would love to have my situation. I never denied it.

When I lived in Baltimore back in the '70s most of my friends and acquaintances were gay or TS. It didn't bother me that the straights thought I was one of the gays. It took the pressure off me so that I didn't have to deal with my paralyzing fear of women. It was a lot easier to turn down the gay guys that hit on me since I really wasn't interested.

I eventually got over my extreme self-centeredness which is why I don't worry too much about what people think of me. I'm not trying to change anybody's attitude. If I spend the rest of my life working on my own attitudes, I will still run out of time before the job is done. I don't have time to change the world.

I don't care what you think. Just don't touch me!

...and that one has absolutely as much to do with each other as eye color and liking peanut butter; I would have to say it isn't bad..it makes no difference what people think about orientation.

People assume. They are often silly in what they base their assumptions on.

When Dee and I got engaged several of her friends who also knew me since we all worked together exclaimed, "But isn't he gay?!".

Near as I can tell, they assumed I was gay, because girls were often friendly in a non-flirty way with me (not by my preference mind you), I was skinny, and wore ties when they were not required.

There was a HUGE actually open gay community in this large corporate space. Human resources and 50% (or more) of those promoted were openly gay. None of my gay friends even ever suggested the most remote possibility that I was even bi, much less gay. A gay friend explained, no gay man wears black wingtips with everything. (I now cleverly wear brown tasseled loafers with everything, I haven't run this sartorial choice by a "Carson" yet.) Dee explained that also: black and white checked pants, while super-keen by themselves did NOT go with a striped oxford.

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Originally Posted by battybattybats

or is there some degree of remnant homophobia that leads us to be so strident in our heterosexuality?

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Yes. Homophobia is a key component of a boy's conditioning. Sometimes it is taught directly, sometimes subtly, but by the time boys mature into men we all understand the necessity of sending out strong signals that we are heterosexual through and through.

Even if consciously you have nothing against gays, subconsciously you are glad to be heterosexual (assuming you are). I believe this is why so many CDs reject the man in a skirt look for themselves, it just makes them uncomfortable that they would be perceived as being gay. By emulating women, we escape this problem by conforming to normal heterosexual expectations.

I am constantly surprised at how many of us are almost militant about not being thought of as gay. You would think that of all people, WE would be a little less quick to point fingers or throw stones. I myself suffer from this a bit I suppose, as it is the reason I told my older brother. After a visit home my mother told me that he asked her if I was gay. I prefered he know the truth and so I spoke to him and explained what I was, all because I didn't want him to think I may be gay.
These days I suppose my ego is a bit stronger than that and I really am not too concerned with what someone may think.

I work with a lesbain nicest girl on earth in MHO gay is not a bad thing one could be worse so I don't think it would be that bad :hugs:
Angie

Funny thing is that for some reason alot of people upon first meeting me think I am gay and they dont know I crossdress, those that know me know I am not and alot of them know I do crossdress so yeah. The world is a funny place well atleast utah is weird and backwards.

The question makes me uncomfortable. I suppose the simple answer is no, being labeled as gay would not be that bad. I am not homophobic and I honestly don't see that a person's sexual orientation is an issue in normal social interaction. But there is also the factor that I know I'm a heterosexual man in the conventional sense of wanting sexual and emotional relations with women, not men. So being labeled as gay would feel like a case of mistaken identity. But then again, I like to present as a woman, and still feel attracted to women when en femme, so am I gay whilst dressed? I really don't know.
If so many people weren't obsessed with labels, it wouldn't matter either way.

It's a shame we have to label ourselves. I have always been pretty bisexual. As I've commented on previous posts I am more secure in my sexuality now than before my feminine side emerged. We all ought to just relax and enjoy our sexuality as it comes. No pun intended :heehee:

No it would not be that bad. Look I am who I am!!! In all honesty I do have bi-curious feelings. I have not really made serious attempts to fulfill them. That is who I am. So call me what you want. I don’t really care. When I first started getting deeper into cross dressing about 15 years ago I would have flipped at the prospect of somebody calling me gay. However the further I got into cross dressing and becoming what I consider more transgendered the more I just said, this is who I am. I really don’t care anymore. I don’t sit around telling people I dress, however if somebody asks, and a few have, I don’t deny it. People can tack on all the labels they want. I am who I am, ME!!!

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

I am constantly surprised at how many of us are almost militant about not being thought of as gay. You would think that of all people, WE would be a little less quick to point fingers or throw stones. I myself suffer from this a bit I suppose, as it is the reason I told my older brother. After a visit home my mother told me that he asked her if I was gay. I prefered he know the truth and so I spoke to him and explained what I was, all because I didn't want him to think I may be gay.
These days I suppose my ego is a bit stronger than that and I really am not too concerned with what someone may think.

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Originally Posted by Chrissy8888

No it would not be that bad. Look I am who I am!!! In all honesty I do have bi-curious feelings. I have not really made serious attempts to fulfill them. That is who I am. So call me what you want. I don’t really care. When I first started getting deeper into cross dressing about 15 years ago I would have flipped at the prospect of somebody calling me gay. However the further I got into cross dressing and becoming what I consider more transgendered the more I just said, this is who I am. I really don’t care anymore. I don’t sit around telling people I dress, however if somebody asks, and a few have, I don’t deny it. People can tack on all the labels they want. I am who I am, ME!!!

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I never really liked labels per se. Most labels make me feel that I am something less than what I am. Step ... person, gay ... person, some other ... person. Hell I am a 'person'. I have also learned to accept that I am not entirely as straight as I originally assumed I was. I prefer to interact, especially sexually, with women whether or not I am dressed. On the other hand, that does not preclude other possibilities. I would have to admit, as others have, to being bi, personal preferences not withstanding.

Its not good that ppl still think cders are gay, b/c that means they don't know anything about us. But it gets old hearing ppl say we are gay. It almost makes me want to stop cding. Which is something i plan to give up in a couple of years.

I am definitely not gay when I am Dawn. I am totally heterosexual and only want to be with a man.

There's nothing wrong with being 'gay' (I prefer the proper term of homosexual myself) but I don't want to be labelled as so just because I dress as a woman, I dislike sloppy thinking like 'oh you dress as a woman because you're gay' if anyone ever said that to me I would ask them to explain their reasoning, and be glad to refute it.

I'm not too big on labels, but i'd like to think of myself as a young woman who likes to keep her options open :)

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Originally Posted by Kehleyr

I'm still made uncomfortable by the "man in a dress" phenomena.

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Since you are gay then you are not the best person to know how a straight man would think about this. Your discomfort obviously derives from other feelings.

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1) Blatant mixtures of gender expression trigger cognitive dissonance in most people.

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It is true that a mixed gender look can look dis-quietening.... except of course many woman already do this and it is not a bid deal at all. Women have progressively increased the degree of masculinity until some have reached the stage where they look almost like boys. In any case this is irrelevant to the CDer himself since he sees himself in various stages of dress. I am talking about a CDer looking in the mirror and not being satisfied with his appearance without any thought of going outside.

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2) Many tv/tg/ts people have internalized transphobia, so appearing obviously transgendered can make us feel uncomfortable internally.

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Except few CDs can look in the mirror and see a woman, they still see themselves. The very act of putting on any feminine clothes may trigger transphobia, the issue is why would it disappear when a wig and breast forms are added to the look?

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3) Many transgendered people are very emotionally committed to the gender binary.

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And the gender binary is built around heterosexuality. In people's minds the two things go hand in hand.

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This is IMHO, and I'll admit I know a lot more TS people than people who crossdress. But I suspect the psychological factors are similar.

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I don't see how. If you believe yourself to be a woman then you are going to view these matters with a different perspective. Obviously a man in a skirt is not going to work for you. The question is why so many CDs react badly to the look even within the privacy of their own home so ignoring social factors.

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Sure it's easy to be upset at being thought to be something you're not but, if you could be accepted as a CD, if you could go out in public dressed without concern for violence or discrimination but strangers assumed you were gay, would that be so bad?

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Well batty, my sister just the other day witnessed a gay bashing, just down the street from my place, the man grabed him in a head lock and bloodied his face, for no good reason at all, Grrr i tell ya its a good thing i wasnt there i tell ya!!

Truth is, it doesnt matter how you express yourself, there is always someone, that just wont like the way you look or act.

I know a lot of gay people, there the best non judgmental people i know, and are a real breath of fresh air to be around. I do know what you mean about CD's being labeled as one. Had a real eye opener just the other day when i learned a new term i didnt know of called a "sissy cuckold" How these wives belittle them, and ummmm force feminization!!! These woman see any man in a dress as sissys!! Well, im not gay, and wouldn't bother me a bit if i was, its just not im my makeup, but a sissy i am not!!! There are some that are into that as well, i guess, must be, but i think that label is more damaging to the hetro CD, than being labeled gay, it implies humiliation. There is just to meny forms of expression, obsession. People just dont understand it, because its not in there face enough.

I live and work in the gay community here in San Francisco. This is new to me because up until 5 years ago I would have identified as a straight man and lived and worked in a straight world.
During those 5 years ago I have transitioned and live as a woman. I don't identify as transsexual because those narratives don't match mine. I have crossdressed my whole life and just recently slipped into the female gender.
I'm beginning to beleive that there are many more gay men that are TG than we thought. The gay culture has gone butch over the last several years and to be a femme gay man is looked down upon by many and so the femme nature has been surpressed.
I rarely meet a drag queen, and I meet many, who doesn't want to be a woman. there are lots of incorrect assumptions about gender and sexuality in both cd and gay communities. We are more alike than we are different.
The Tg identity is newer to the qay community and I find more and more men tell me that that describes them too. I think we'll see more of this in future years.
There are certain parts of the glbt community that is strongly pro tg and they constantly fight for our rights and acceptance in society at large as well as in the gay and lesbian community. Some of them see as heroines becasue of the huge change we make in our lives and the courage it takes. We are seen as examples of what it means to live your life by your own rules and make up your own story. Many wish they had our strength and courage

What is wrong with being a sissy? I don't mine when someone calls me a sissy because that is what I really am. I also don't mind being labeled a Jane0Girl, Sissy, or Nancy Boy since I am rather girly and tend to think like a girl.

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Originally Posted by Chantelle CD

Well batty, my sister just the other day witnessed a gay bashing, just down the street from my place, the man grabed him in a head lock and bloodied his face, for no good reason at all, Grrr i tell ya its a good thing i wasnt there i tell ya!!

Truth is, it doesn't matter how you express yourself, there is always someone, that just wont like the way you look or act.

I know a lot of gay people, there the best non judgmental people i know, and are a real breath of fresh air to be around. I do know what you mean about CD's being labeled as one. Had a real eye opener just the other day when i learned a new term i didnt know of called a "sissy cuckold" How these wives belittle them, and ummmm force feminization!!! These woman see any man in a dress as sissys!! Well, im not gay, and wouldn't bother me a bit if i was, its just not im my makeup, but a sissy i am not!!! There are some that are into that as well, i guess, must be, but i think that label is more damaging to the hetro CD, than being labeled gay, it implies humiliation. There is just to meny forms of expression, obsession. People just dont understand it, because its not in there face enough.

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What is wrong with being a sissy? I don't mine when someone calls me a sissy because that is what I really am. I also don't mind being labeled a Jane0Girl, Sissy, or Nancy Boy since I am rather girly and tend to think like a girl.

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There is probably 100 different ways you can label oneself a sissy, i was referring to the cuck's label of it, if thats your cup of tea, then thats fine, i did say, there are those that like that sort of thing, myself i don't like the energy involved with humiliation. When it comes to Chantelle, she is just to special a person to be humiliated, or looked at in that light, or lac of light should i say.

What people think of us is based on their values and experiences growing up. Prejudice and intolerance are learned behaviors.
I am reminded of a song by The Pirates of the Mississippi called Feed Jake

Here is a portion..

Now if you get an ear pierced
Some will call you gay
But if you drive a pick up
They say No, he must be straight

I think this just shows how different people think.