Telling the wife

Well, I hope this is the right place to post. Gosh I am so scared of making a mistake and getting jumped on, but I can't see any other place. Anyway...

I have been married 30 yrs, to my wife. She knew about my tendencies when we married, and knew I would try to keep them under control, which I mostly did until about 5 yrs. ago. At that time her and the kids (now ages 13 and 18) were in another country waiting on me to get a job ( I am a US citizen by the way, she is not, though she has lived her mostly since we were orignally married). While I was on my own, I joined a CD group, got really into it ans started going out dressed. I wanted to tell her but not til we saw each other as the phone is not the place to discuss imo. When I told her, she almost divorced me. It hasn't been 5 yrs. of hell, but lots of rude innuendo (but not all the time), sarcastic remarks, etc. I am currently going out approx. 2-3 times a month, which she says is too much. Our relationship was somewhat strained, anyway, before she found out about this, and frankly there is some love left, i guess, but not much. She has refused all attempts at counseling, literature, or even discussing it other than as it applies to our current and future relationship. Further, I find myself so drawn now ( feel like I am sorta between CDer and TS) to Cding or whatever, that it is affecting my job, my stress level and depressing me. I know I will want more, and she says she would refuse to go any further. I am at a crossroads now. I am debating whether to go ahead and cut the cords, knowing that if I don't it will just cause worse problems later on, or just stick it out until she has had enough.

What I would like to know is about other persons experiences with an unsupportive wife, when they hadn't already made the decision to "go all the way" but knew you wanted more. Did you move out? If so how did that work for you? What issues did you face, etc? Thanks so much for you help.:hugs:

Kelli,

I was almost in the same shoes you are in..(I never wanted to further it).. I told my wife from the start..She really never accepted it..Yes it climaxed and then it dropped ...CDing that is..and sometimes we make rash decisions during that time..I suggest that you wait until you end your climax or exit the pink fog before you make any decissions..

You see right now it's all about you and your feelings...I know you love your wife and its hard to juggle both at times..Give it some time let your head clear ..Then think about ways that you could help her understand what you go through and how this is something that is part of you..Ask her if there is anyway she would be willing to learn more about you open minded without pushing your desires on her..

I wish you the best as I am sure you will think about what is right for you.

Best wishes

C.W.

Well, a couple of things;
1. If you stay married it sounds like you will have boundaries that you can't cross.
2. If you get divorced, there is no boundaries and you can go as far as you like.
3. If you decide to go all the way, everyone will know, family, friends, co-workers, etc. so you must be prepared for that.
4. One married person I know went all the way even though she was married with 2 children. Now she has some regrets. Your marriage will never be the same and your wife will want that man part she'll never have again.
or,
Do you live both genders and stay married.
Hugs,
Tamera

I am not married but I say if you don't think you can live with the restrictions the you'll have to tell her ,you can't live with out it so ether live with the cd or break up. If she loves you she might give you enough leway to dress if not with her or ever seeing you , and you might live happliy ever after. But I dout it. You most likely will splitt up. Well good luck hun HUGGS :hugs::canada:

I appreciate the input, I really do.

Just to clear up a few points:

1. I am not sure if there is real love anymore.
2. I do want to take it further (not sure how far though).
3. I have been thinking about and trying to get her to understand, counseling, etc. for 5 yrs. now. That may not be long to some people but I am not willing to go another 5 yrs. She does "allow" me to go out twice a month which she says is way too much. She wants no part of that side of me, AT ALL, EVER. She has made that abundantly clear.
4. Seriously if it was just about my feelings, I would have moved out 5 yrs. ago.

I understand a woman not liking what I do, I really do. I sorta feel that we have BOTH drawn a line in the sand now, me with my desires, her with her wishes. I guess one could say it is my fault for changing a major parameter of the marriage in the first place. Still, life is a journey, things change, people change. Two can decide to work within these changes or there is nothing. This is where I sit now.

Thanks again for the insights. They are much appreciated.
:thumbup:

Kelli,

I think you already know the answer to you own question... It is a living hell being married to an un accepting spouse.. Sometimes I wondered in my marriage if all the denial I recieved from my wife pushed me further into wanting to dress verses never wanting to to it again. But after moving out I have came to terms with that not being the cause..I have found it was the stress and the feeling of emptyness more than anything ..I have also found a lot of it was due to my mis understanding into why I thought it was something I had to do...

I would seek therapy, alone if you have to .I feel you need advice but with such a major change in life ,leaving your wife would be a good case for the pros to handle.. You have to do what makes you happy but also I would put the big picture in mind before I made any decissions..

Gosh, Kelli, you sound so much like me - I have been so torn over to stay married yo a somewhat supporting Spouse or to go it alone so I can enjoy crossdressing all the time - I have no desire for SRS, but I do desire to CD a lot , lot more. My prayers and thoughts are with you.
Love,
JoAnne Wheeler

You poor soul . I feel for you as obviously things are very strained between you . I feel for youre wife also ...she seems almost as if she's in denial . I don,t know the situation but perhaps its time to look at youre lifestyle differently......
Maybe even take a step back ......it aint gonna be easy but , you,ve both got to recognise one thing - youre not communicating. To stay in the stale horrid place you obth are at right now will only make matters worse . I can only assume that the remarks given to you are done so to engage a reaction , vent displeasure perhaps even to get attention. we all at times joust openly , saying insensative things ....its almost a cry for help , a cry for relief and understanding . Be we wrong , be we right .
I,m in no way trained on the matters of marital problems but I do know this ...
You really need to talk . I,d try my earnst , be calm be quiet , ask , beg for a heart to heart if need be ....if its granted , do it in a neutral surroundings
away from home . If such a conversation is allowed then dont interupt ....(everyone really hates that) ....even if you are angst ...count to 10.
There must be a way foward ......so give it youre best shot . At least try to get those words flowing ........ you did once when problems faced you both ( like us all , we dealt with things together ) so try to give it a go ...but try together . Some things just have to be confronted . Or we simply never move on.
IF she simply will not oblige you , then perhaps show her youre plea for help here - show her my response if you like . I think she really needs to know you are calling out for help and you dearly love her and desperately want to save youre marriage . But sadly allowing ignorance and non communication between you both is only making matters worse.
I hate to end my bit on this last point ....exhaust everything you have . Councelling the works , whatever it takes.... Only then if all fails will you BOTH know you tried youre very best at least .
I hope I,ve helped a little .....
Good luck to you both

Thanks again for the insightful replies.

Curse within, yes, I wondered the same thing at one point.

For sure, I will try a minimum of at least one more time (probably several) to communicate with my wife on this issue. We have spent too many good times, have too much invested in each other, and have made it through so many difficult times to not give it our best shot. But, I know in my heart that if I tell her I want more of cding (and probably more), she will say "...that's it.." And of course I do want more. I suppose that's the bottom line. We have compromised to this point, very, very begrudgingly on her part.

The next thing really wouldn't be a compromise on my part, honestly, but would be simply letting me do what I feel I must. If this was something I had a conscious choice in, it would a different thing. People keep throwing the "pink fog" thing out too. If I have it, it's been there for 5 yrs. At this point it's more like pink atmosphere to me. It ain't going away. I am trying to be honest with her and myself. That's the best I can do.

Remember, You're entitled to happiness too!!!!


That is from your signature. And yes you do deserve to be happy as does your wife.

When I woke up on August 3rd of 2008 I realized that Carin and I deserved to be happy. We had spent 25 years together, raising our seven children to (almost ) adulthood. We had built a life together. And for sure we loved each other.

But is all honesty we could not be happy together.

I needed to control my husband. She/he needed to be Carin. I could not live with that. He could not live without him/herself.

This was the hardest decision I could ever make. The hardest.

We had tried most everything.

And in the end I and we decided our marriage had to end.

But we both deserve to be happy. We could not do that and be together.


Louise.

Thank you Carin's Wife for that point. It is well taken. I guess that is where I am at in a nutshell. I just don't see that we can be happy together, but we can be unhappy together. We are both, basically, nice people, and deserve some modicum of happiness. And, yes, it is the hardest thing to contemplate and/or do (divorcing). As I said, I will try again. We owe it to ourselves to exhaust all possible options before the final step is taken. It is very scary though.

Although i am quite new to being involved with a cd-er i think it is every SO's fear to lose their loved one to the cd-ing full time.

I accept that the man i love has to cd every now and again and in the early days of our relationship there were an awful lot of questions i needed answers to and one was, how do i know that in 10 yrs i won't lose you permanently to cd-ing, how do i know i won't lose the man i fell in love with? Although he has reassured me that this would never happen because of his job, lifestyle and the enjoyment of making love to me as a man.

But from a GG's point of view here i wonder if your wife is now feeling that she is losing the man she fell in love with and at the moment there doesn't seem to be any way of getting him back. For you, it must seem frustrating as she cannot accept a very important part of you.

Just a couple of ideas, not sure if they'll help.

I agree . The fear of losing .....probably why the remarks come and go ...awaiting retaliation. I think if the anger were dealt with first , then communication could be attempted . Compramise may be met with worry , but even if it were to allow you to dress once a week in private , then at least a measure of calmness could be restored given time . We give off so many signals .....sometimes my wife has remarked I was so pent up before coming out to her she fretted ......she now realises why . My behaviour was down to another woman after all . She was me tho .... I must have been hard to live with sometimes. Its so difficult being a cd sometimes....we crave it , love it , can,t think straight once we see a pair of heels we desire to own . But , if its controlled in a manner of understanding and a certain allowance then I think the skys the limit. The urge maybe quelled some what . I dont think its fair however for someone to be controlled or be a controller . I never wish to control my wife ...or anyone to be honest . So ultimatums are out for me - a real no - no . Its only emotional blackmail in the end.
It sounds as tho you folk really love each other , otherwise this wouldnt be happening ....perhaps that would be a way of approaching youre wife , asking for at least a chance to be heard . A spoken gesture of love goes a long long way .....
Is,nt it easy as the years flow past , that in our lives the people we love the very most can sometimes be so stubborn because of having to face up to things we are most frightened of ?
Makes you think doesnt it ....lifes short , and if for some reason we were to lose our nearest and dearest thru accident , or illness it certainly puts all problems in life including crossdressing into a poor perspective .

I wish you both the very best in finding each other once more .......dont give up !!

Hi Michelle, I am in the opposite situation: I have a loving wife who supports my crossdressing and even helps me to buy clothes, make-up, jewelry etc and quite frankly we BOTH enjoy all the benefits of my crossdressing eg being creative, shopping together, being sexy, and so on. But I am not here to tell you how lucky I am. When I first confessed to my wife that I was crossdressing, she said OK but do it when I am not there. I asked her if I could just send her some photos of me dressed to which she agreed. Some time later she asked if she could see me dressed, so I put on my best miniskirt and high heels and presented myself to her. Shortly after that she told me: "Once I knew it was still YOU under the clothes, I knew I had no problem with it." Ever since then our marriage has prospered and gone from better to better.

So the question is this: Does you wife want to be married to YOU or to what she wants you to be? If she cannot love you as you are, then your marriage is likely to fail in the end. I really think the problem is more hers than yours and it is exacerbated by her unwillingness to communicate on the subject. You must use whatever means you can to get her to a counsellor. You may choose to stay until the children have left home (the honourable thing to do) but after that ..........

I truly hope this all works out for you. I can confirm that life can be really wonderful as a CD if you have the right partner.
LOL. Linda

Kelli, :hugs:

I wish I could find a pill that would help a wife be willing to find out what the CDing is all about and what it means to her husband before she decides she wants nothing to do with it. It doesn't make sense to me that if a wife loves her husband, she would not be willing to look into it. And then if she does decide she cannot participate, at least she might recognize it is an integral aspect of her husband's psyche and negotiate a reasonable amount of space so he can express himself.

Would you have doubts about edging towards being TS if you did not experience constraints about dressing? I also wonder if the question hasn't become a power play between the two of you (or more accurately, your wife).

She does sound as if she has dug in her heels. From personal experience (and from what you told M & I), this may be due to other issues in your marriage. Have you thought about sorting through the other issues first (one is why the two of you are not communicating), with a marriage counselor? In the meantime, you might be willing to reassure your wife you will leave the current arrangement you have with the CDing as is for now? This may free her enough to focus on the underlying issues that may be causing her unwillingness to talk to you about this. You never know what you might discover in marital counseling. This may take some time and only you can decide if you feel your marriage is worth it.

I'm making many assumptions here, but I wanted to share my thoughts.

Also, from what I have seen in this forum and in my own life, it only takes the door to open a little before the light eventually fills the room. If your wife becomes OK with the idea that CDing is a part of you and she realizes that you are also still her husband, in time it is likely she will feel less threatened by the idea and her level of tolerance may increase. She may eventually come to accept it and even participate. :) Conversely, if you do sort through the other marital issues and your relationship is happier as the result, and her tolerance level increases to the point where the CDing is no longer the elephant in the room, you may decide you are willing to balance your need to CD with wanting to remain in the marriage as her husband.

I agree with Linda. The bottom line is whether you wife wants to be married to you, or who she thinks she wants you to be.

And last, if you do think you might want to transition or live full time, then like Louise, your wife will likely decide she cannot live with this. I think right now the situation has developed into a conceptual all or nothing scenario and the two of you have not spent any time in the vast area of compromise that lies in between.
:love:

Hi Kelli, You have just wrote my story,yes she knew about my C D ing she even bought cloths for me when we went shopping. I am more brave now. My kids know all 4 of them they all were out of the house but for the youngest. He's was 24 at the time an onto a lot of chit. She tried to use the C D ing in our divorice but if you have a good lawyer it dose not put u at a disavantage . Well that was 2004 to dec of 2005 when it was done, she ended up paying me, more to that story. OUTCOME I am now living in Flordia with a beauitful women 12 yrs younger then me that loves the heck out of me an loves me to being her girl friend. We are the same size in cloths 16 , and shoes 11. We go out as girl friends make love as girl friend and also she loves my man part. I have the best of this world that I have chosen, oh all so she has a buck or two. I have a M C Honda , A camper drive type, and a 26 ft sail boat don't worry take a postive out look it can get better. :love::cheer::dance::jumping::rofl::thumbup::awe:: bovered::hf::dom:

being married for over thirty years wife found out about 7yrs ago and was totally against it we aurgued alot about it i continued wearing her panties and as years went on more of her clothes a little of the time now we talk about me dressings and i do dress in front of her at times and she told me it depends on her moods if i could or not and it works out good for me so for your answer it works for some and not others take it one day at a time

Repression of ones self can never lead to happiness

Thanks for the suggestions, advice, and questions.

To answer a few questions, if I had no constraints, I would at least move towards living as a woman.

We have discussed our other problems in our relationship. These have been resolved as best as possible, with us agreeing to disagree to a large part. In other words, these will continue, more than likely, with one of us giving sometimes, than the other, but without clear resolution. It does sound like we have dug in our heels, and I know this sounds self-serving, but I have really compromised more on these issues than she has. I have constantly told her, and I believe I have been true to this, that I want a partnership, not a dictatorship. I will make my share of decisions, as appropriate, and take responsibility for my mistakes. But she must also make some tough choices, and be responsible for her mistakes, which she is generally unwilling to do. This is a large part of our problem. There are other strong issues, but this is a good example. I would also like a little credit when credit is due. I basically get none. That is not too much to ask.

What my wife finds hard is in fact all-encompassing. She doesn't want to picture me looking like a woman ("that would be gross"), she doesn't want to go to counseling ("it's your problem, not mine"), she won't accept offers of internet links, books, or anything else. She doesn't want to notice my clothes (though I know she has "peeked" at them) discuss any aspect of what I do, except to find out when I am going out. Her attitudes have hardened over the years btw. As mentioned before, our current agreement ( I think "me being allowed" is a better phrase) is that I go out twice a month. I posed this question to her once, "If I wanted to play golf, 4-5 times a month, would you be ok with that?" She said, "yes". It's not the time or anything, it's the activity.

Yes, she is worried that the other woman will take over, I am sure. That is a valid concern, and we have discussed that possibly. In my case, that's code for me realizing that I am further along the path toward TS than just cding.

IMO, she does want to stay married to what she thinks is me.

Here's the thing. I believe with her it is an "all or nothing" scenario. Not so with me, but I realize that it may be all, and have discussed the possibility with her.

I don't believe that anything short of a complete mental makeover, would satisfy her. That is not going to happen.

Hey listen, I am not looking to receive public approval to leave my wife or anything. I suppose it sounds like I am purposely painting a bleak picture for that purpose, but it's not true. I am bouncing thoughts and ideas off my friends here so that I can get my thoughts together on the issue. As I said before, I will give it more thought, will pursue more communication with my wife.

Once again, thank you all for sharing with me so many valid thoughts and questions.

Kelli,

30 years ago my first wife told me to give up my crossdressing or leave the marriage. She wanted a man and not a woman as a husband. I left the marriage. 5 years later after I was married to the most accepting and supportive wife in the world (she is the author of My Husband Wears My Clothes), my ex told me that she had made the biggest mistake in her life. Her knight in shining arms may have worn a dress sometimes around the house but he still was the best man she had ever known. Too late. 2 weeks larer we suspect she took her own life.

Over the past 28 years in counseling with hundreds of couples we have seen many instances of an unaccepting wife who in time became totally supportive and accepting. Whats the secret? Usually if a couple is able to communicate openly and with honesty in all areas and do not have other major problems in the relationship other than the crossdressing, in time some wives are able to come to acceptance. Yes, most are afraid of losing their man but can come to the point where they are able to see beyond the clothing and know that s(he) is her man.

Hang in there and come visit us in Houston.

Hugs,

Melanie

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kelli Michelle

... she doesn't want to go to counseling ("it's your problem, not mine"),

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But what about going to counseling unrelated to the CDing? Tell her it isn't at all about the dressing (for now), but you would like to discuss other issues in your relationship. I gather you both acknowledge there are issues? And then ... in due time maybe it would come up quite naturally? :2c:

Reine, that is an excellent idea. I had proposed that before, but she didn't want to go for that reason either. I am not sure, but my take is that she may feel that the therapist would take my "side" in re. to our problems. Still, it's worth pursuing again, maybe she has had a change of heart. Thanks for the advice

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kelli Michelle

I am not sure if there is real love anymore.

She wants no part of that side of me, AT ALL, EVER. She has made that abundantly clear.

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Sounds to me that you have taken my place between the rock and the hard place...

I found myself in exactly that position with my now EX=Wife She had introduced me to this forum, then "accepted it" (or tried to), then decided that she could no longer look at me and see the man she married, saying that all she could see was the woman that stole her man.

Not long after that the divorce was called for... Now we can actually have a conversation without fighting.

My point is a simple one. If there is no love there already and you continue along this path soon the tollerance will turn to resentment, which will lead to the ultimate demise.

I would sugest that if you must persue this "change in lifestyle" then maybe it is time to admit that the intersecting life lines that you and your wife lead, (as good of a journey that you had together) have showed their true cource over time, and are no longer close enough together to live the same lives that you did 30 years ago.

But in saying that the words of C.W ring true... wait untill the pink haze has lifted a bit before you make the decision.

What ever the outcome I wish you the best of luck.:hugs:

COMMUNICATION IS KEY!!!!!!! That is what Melanie R said, and trust me on this, it is the truth. If my wonderfully supportive wife and I did not talk, we never would have made it past our second year together.

Kandis:love::rose2:

I find this interesting and to be clear I am not making a direct comparison to these issues but I do relate CD, TV, TG, etc in relationships to other issues that might arise. I have often explored the questions myself that if say I knew my spouse had issues with depression before marrying her that were say mild, but later found out she had bipolar disorder or maybe even hormone deficiency that progressed as the years went on….or say the opposite lets say in the beginning you had a stutter and as time went on even with speech therapy that continued to deteriorate. Maybe again something not as depressing, that you were a hack photographer, but found you had an increasing desire for fashion photography and now away from home but surrounded by beautiful women all the time, or perhaps you found the inner desire to go help a village of children in a 3rd world country as you felt it was your life calling. I think in all scenario’s good and bad you might find there are many insecurities that a spouse or SO may have in the choices you would have to make in the case of health or personal objectives and that it would be imperative to truly understand what those insecurities of your spouse are first and foremost. Taking the time to respond those issues, needs and etc would be most beneficial to you and her for this relationship or any future one you may have. It may benefit for both persons to really get down to understanding and stating their observations, thoughts and needs on specific topics not generalities before making such a decision to stay or go.

Also it is important for folks to prioritize what they value most in life…not just physical possessions but things you truly value and assess how those things and how they would turn out would impact your life. Perhaps it is your children’s happiness…such as in my case. For my children the boundaries are limitless. As their father there is nothing I would not put on hold or manage or deal with for their sake after all I made my choices in life, they still have theirs to live and they should have a fair chance to live and grow. But yet I personally believe that is the choice I made in bringing my children into this world.

I am not a counselor and do not profess to be one, but truly understanding her needs and concerns and creating a forum for you to be able to clearly express your needs would be most important. At the end of that possible lengthy engagement and exchange of ideas, wants, needs, etc. you may find that your needs are just different hence the expression “growing apart” or you may find you have many things still shared and some boundaries need to be established on both sides. Remember a relationship is not just one person, it is two people and there has to be compromise. Not compromise is like being in a relationship with oneself with one person making the rules and choices. This is just my two cents and could go on. But communication, communication, communication……and honesty no matter how brutal if you truly want to be free from your conscience…however it may be your choice to let some “sleeping dogs lie”, but beware the repercussions if that dog is awakened…if so the relationship may be even more in jeopardy than it was before.