I am very scared...

First off, I'd like to take the time to apologize for being a brat to lots of people here these past few days. I'm very unstable mentally, and I'm dealing with problems that I understand fully ALL of you are also putting up with. I also have some other personal problems that I've elaborated on in the sticky on the "Writers" section of the site. BUT! No excuses. I don't tolerate excuses from others, so I will not tolerate excuses from myself.

In short, I am sorry. I apologize for causing trouble and getting snippy and then of course, infecting lots of others with... snippy-ness. I will put greater effort from here on in actually thinking at twice before speaking and acting.

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To the second part of this thread...

I'm currently in an English class, and the final essay is an argument essay on any random ol' topic. For some weird ass reason, I'll never know why, I chose to make an argument concerning TG from a psychological perspective. Specifically, my argument will be that Gender Dysphoria, as the current DSM-5 labels it, should not be classified as a mental condition.

In the process, as expected, I'm doing a bunch of research, nearly as much as I would normally do for a history project. And it's scaring the bloody crap out of me. I'm seeing that I don't fit any of the symptoms of any classification of any aspect of TG. Which means, now I have no clue what I am.

I know lots of people in general hate the idea of "labels" and so forth, but I actually need them. I don't even know how to talk to people unless I can classify them as something. And I'm severely bothered by the idea that I'm... nothing. Another way to look at this is that I really want something to pin at least some of my problems on, and it is becoming evident that TG stuff is not the answer.

Is there anything I can do about this? It's too late to change topic for the English essay, so I'm only going to find out more information that'll drive me nuts.

GBJoker
I cant really answer your questions on part 2 but with regards part 1, Writing comments on the forum is easy and you dont have to post straight away. Write what you think is ok then go and get a cup of coffee and come back in 30 mins and read it again. If you still think what you have written is relevant then post it. You can always delete unwanted posts anyway, but be careful, were not here to hurt each other.
As to your signature - PaulaQ is one of the smartest most intelligent people I have ever had the please to converse with. I am sure she would listen to any problems you have in a PM or email.
If you read this Paula - I love you....Ellie

GB, Please don't let any self diagnosis you may think you are making worry you. Doing this really fits in the same arena as the statement that a person who represents himself in court has a fool as his lawyer. As smart as we may be, when it comes to things about ourselves, i do not feel we are the best at seeing where we fit in. Take your findings with a grain of salt, and do not stop learning. Just realize that a trained professional is really needed before you start pinning things, especially on yourself.

TRAINED PROFESSIONAL...

Hugs,

Barbara

I can totally understand the peace that a label can bring. It says "I'm not alone, I'm not just broken"

Maybe if you share which what things you feel need explaining and which things don't seem to fit with GB with someone or with everyone, maybe someone will have some ideas that would help?

Well, for one I seem to display no symptoms of anything on the TG spectrum besides the obvious one, and possible depression. The problem with the latter is that there are lots of things in my life that could easily be the origin of the depression, so that cannot be definitively attached to the TG stuff.

I'm also scared about the fact that I'm doing dressing a bit later in life. While I've seen on official studies/research/etc., and on here that there are definitely people who may not even consider dressing until in even later sections of life than me, it still bothers me. While I have a tiny bit of VERY circumstantial evidence that I've done stuff before now, the truth is I really have no idea. So, that has created fear, because we all know of those psychologists and therapists who demand that everything be nearly perfect before diagnosing a certain condition, and I'm frightened by the possibility of hitting one of those therapists. And since it seems nothing can really be done without a therapist, I feel this fear to be well-grounded.

Barbara Ella: Unfortunately, professional help is outside of my reach at the moment, and will remain out of reach for as much as a decade.

I don't think I know what the other symptoms are besides wanting to be the other gender and depression.

But maybe the real question is what are you feeling/noticing?

I think that if you ran into one of those therapists you would have to find a new one if you really felt they were not understanding you. I have that anxiety about doctors quite a bit, like I know what's going on with me but they don't believe me that my body is odd and doesn't necessarily do things like other people. I really do need to find a new doctor.

Is there not counseling at least through your school? (are you going to school? someone said that somewhere)

GB,

1. Why GD shouldn't be in the DSM *at all*:
a. All therapists do is help you identify your symptoms, feel better (if possible) about what you are going through, and then open a gateway for medical treatment. NO therapy really helps with GD. NONE.
b. It's treated with physical medicine, endocrinology, and surgery in some instances. Those sound like psychology to you? Me either.
c. It continues to let the absolutely gutless physical medicine folks dodge this illness, and indulge their own prejudices about it.

2. Don't worry over much about a label for yourself. I was desperate for one too - I relate to how you feel. Gender issues are complex, and there will be parts of your own mind that try to keep you from seeing the truth, whatever it may ultimately be, about yourself. It's spooky. Remember the move "The Matrix"? That movie is really a metaphor about discovering that someone is trans. You'll likely need professional to figure out what's going on with yourself. The descriptions in the DSM are vague as all hell. Partly because they are psychological, and that's just sort of how things go in psychology, and partly because it can be incredibly difficult to separate GD from other mental conditions a patient may have that are unrelated.

Figuring this stuff out is HARD. I'd like to tell you that you can figure it out in a couple of weeks, but that is just never the case.
Also, +1 for Barbara Ella's post. She is on point.

edit: I think the DSM is deliberately vague. The psychologists who really have a clue know it's bullshit that they are even dealing with this illness. (Although they are plenty happy to help you deal with the consequences of having GD - and you may need plenty of help with that if you have it.) Basically, though, there aren't any real medical tests for this, so we're sort of in the same boat that heart patients were in 40-50 years ago, where all the docs could really do in many cases was ask the patient questions about their pain until they figured out what might be wrong. They got it wrong a lot too. Now we have all sorts of tests based on various biological indicators of heart disease, as well as diagnostic imaging equipment that lets them see PRECISELY what's wrong in many cases. The reason psychologists ask questions, rather than doctors, are in my opinion, because doctors DO NOT WANT to deal with us, for the most part. That may sound shocking, and impossible, and a gross violation of their oaths. But it is the truth.

I don't put a lot of stock in DSM anything just a bunch of shrinks that want to call what we do a disorder.
All the pain people put themselves thru to find a label or box they can fit in is it really necessary? To some I guess it is but it would drive me crazy to feel the need to live such a structured existence.
Coming to grips with and accepting I was trans gender has been the best thing that has happened to me.
It got rid of all the confusion and hate I had inside me and made me a much better person.
I have problems just like everyone else and I have plenty of reasons to be depressed but again whats the point?
Life is what you make it. Why spend it being pissed off and mad at the world because no one understands you?

GBJOKER,

I strongly recommend that you do not put off therapy, if for no other reason than that you feel that you are suffering from depression. Depression should never be self treated.

ErinSassyPants: Thus far I have found these symptoms, in no particular order:

1: Anywhere from mild to extreme discomfort or disgust with biological sexual characteristics (ie, beards for MTFs, breasts for FTMs)
2: Constant or near constant desire and association with non-biological sex (More than simple tomboy/tomgirl stuff)
3: Depression (every one knows this, etc)
4: Desires to behave in ways associated with opposite biological sex (boys playing with Barbies, girls... Um.. Crap, sorry, can't think of a good example for FTMs... Maybe FTMs or GGs can provide example)
5: Anywhere from mild to extreme discomfort or disgust with biological sexual genitalia (I... shouldn't have to provide examples on this one)
6: Some other minor things...

I'm feeling/noticing that I'm not displaying any of these characteristics unless I wake up on the right side of the bed or something.

PaulaQ: I chose this side of the argument at semi-random with my logic being, "A great title would be "I am a Woman, But I am Not Insane." So... Yeah... Really, I'm not taking the essay too seriously. I am taking the research seriously though.

Surprisingly, none of the psych stuff seems vague to me. And my heart doctors absolutely loved me. They were getting paid a hella lotta money to see me. :p

I'm not expecting to figure stuff out in just a few weeks. I've already spent several years thinking about this. And... I'm sorta getting tired of thinking.

Lastly, isn't "The Matrix" that crazy sci-fi movie that they never did any sequels to for some reason? Lol.

Tracii G: I don't care too much about other peoples. What pisses me off is that I don't understand myself.

Andromeda: I have no choice. Therapy is too expensive, and I will have neither the money nor the free time to do it for about a decade.

PS: I love your name "Andromeda."

I'm with you on the sex/genitalia thing.

so if I read your post right, those are symptoms you are NOT feeling, or at least not consistently. Did I read that right?

So then what is happening inside of you that you believe you are TS?

I know I asked up there all wierd and wrong because of course you're in school you are talking about your english class/paper. What I should have asked was
Have you checked with your school to find out if you can get any kind of counseling through them? I know it wouldn't be specific to gender stuff but it might be helpful with the depression.

I seem to not be having the symptoms consistently enough to be classified with even mild gender dysphoria. I have no idea anymore what is making me think I'm a TS. I've had debates with various people on it, and they have very effectively proven me wrong on a variety of aspects of transsexualism, and from various angles, so... I'm kinda broken right now a bit.

I am currently seeing a school counselor for depression and suicidal tendencies, but... she kinda sucks.

Cross gender expression such as cross dressing is a big sign. The apparent fact that you did this at some point in your past is also a sign. Your severe depression (which could come from other stuff) and suicidal tendencies, your (non) relationship with the mirror and, lastly, that you think you may be TS are also signs. These things don't prove you are TS. They are hints that something is going on with your gender, and that you need professional help. At the very least, find a support group, and see if you relate to any of the feelings folks in the group describe when they describe what they've gone through, and see if any of it lines up with you.

Why you should find a way to deal with this NOW:
1. You can't spend money if you are dead. Doesn't matter how much you will make in the future - you need a future first.
2. Trying to put this off for a decade - good luck. If you have GD, it doesn't give a shit about your plans. Seriously, it doesn't. DO NOT, for the love of god, put yourself into a situation where you have no ability to get treatment for this. Read all the threads from married people who avoid dealing with their gender issues because of their relationships - they are awful situations. At best you'll be a really miserable person. At worst you'll commit suicide, or get fired as you completely break down, alone, and in a foreign country.

BTW, if it turns out that you aren't mistaken, and that this is all stuff other than GD (nobody can tell you this either way over the internet), then I still think you need to get MUCH more stable before you think about going alone to a foreign land. Tell your folks how desperate and despressed and suicidal you are, and get help. Now.

I really am at a loss for words here... Congrats PaulaQ, you are the first person in... forevers!, to make me truly speechless. I've read your post only about 20 times, trying to find a response, and... I am, regrettably, unable.

And, the problem with the not going to Japan is this... I need to apply for the job in November... and I'll be on the plane at the end of July. In other words, the definition of time-consuming and patience. So... If I don't apply this November, my ability to go to Japan drops to near zero until November 2014... And I'd have absolutely nothing to do for that year. And I'd hate that. I already feel nearly a decade behind every one else, and I absolutely refuse to waste another year sitting on my butt staring into space and falling more behind in my life.

GBJoker,

First of all, don't feel bad about having to label everyone. We all label each other everyday. Sometimes it's an easier label to handle, such as brother or friend, and sometimes the labels have stigma attached to them, such as fat or TG. Labels only have power when we give them power. Society has been attaching stigma to the label TG, or CD, for a long time because society is designed to encourage conformity. Anything that does not conform, especially things that challenge our core beliefs as defined by our upbringing, has to be reevaluated. We were raised to ostracize anyone who was not like us, to analyze the unknown, and to pick apart anything out of the norm.

It is the human condition to ask questions and qualify everything. Psychologists, have essentially defined what it is to be normal. Anything that deviates from that is considered a condition. Whether that condition is a disorder or not is debatable. To me, being TG or CD is not a disorder, but by definition it does deviate from societal norms. That in itself makes it subject to scrutiny. I am married to a CD. I encourage him to be who he is everyday. I am supporting and loving and everything that I believe a supporting SO should be. But that does not stop my SO from questioning himself because of the view of the rest of the world. He does not have any condition or disorder but he wonders nonetheless.

As for your paper. My suggestion is to try and remove yourself from it as much as possible. If you incorporate your inner turmoil into the paper too much it will muddle all of your points. I know that's easier said than done. But start with Gender Dysphoria according to their definition and then pick three or four strong counter arguments. I tend to use an outline when I'm writing an argumentative paper to help organize my thoughts. There are a million paper outlines on Google, but I have one I can send you if you like.

I pick things to write about that interest me. I am a psych major so I do plenty of them. I hope this helps.

Dawn

Hey GB, good to see you here again. Let me add one more voice to the chorus: please, please find a therapist to talk to about your depression. It's serious stuff, not something you can cure on your own or even with help from friends. You may also need to consider antidepressants. The best combination is usually long-term medication plus shorter-term talk therapy. Get it through your school's health center. Make this a priority.

Best regards,

Katharine

The confusion of gender dysphoria in my opinion will be difficult to understand if you have to narrow of a definition of what makes a man or a woman based on behavior and interests.

I know women who in work in construction or as mechanics and have no interest in wearing dresses or heels.

I would suggest you forget about what you do as behavior and even how you feel as emotions such as I cry easily so I must be a woman.

You can raise a boy as a girl and some may identify as girls and others will most definitely not so gender identity can be created or imposed on some where on others they will resist it.

In my opinion in the search for self you want to strip away as many outside influences as possible and get to who you are at your core.

It may be possible that you are having an identity crisis independent of gender because the circumstances of your childhood were such that you were never allowed to form an identity as a autonomous individual from being exposed to unhealthy parental influences.

I would suggest a book called "The Truth" by Robert Firestone

In my opinion it is important to address any possible damage caused by one or more parents when addressing issues of gender identity.

Another problem that affects identity is anxiety where anxiety is caused by living with an unknown fragmented self.

Identity disorders result from being on the autism spectrum, ADD or ADHD, Bi-polar and Borderline Personality Disorder, Schizophrenia, ect.. so the person very well could have gender identity issues because they have core identity issues.

It can be very difficult to separate out the various forms of identity disorder.

All these experiences and more create a sense of confusion when a person tries to answer the question "Who am I"

Before you can address gender identity the deeper issues of identity as an individual independent of gender must be examined because you are an individual first and a gender second.

KellyJameson: Before I respond in any way what so ever, could you define "unhealthy parental influences"?

kathtx, and to an extent every one: Man, this chorus is getting mighty big...

DawnD: I didn't have an upbringing, nor was I raised in the traditional sense. I studied economics in place of that.

I would leave the essay as it is.
The person marking it would not know all the pedantics or really care if it is politically correct.
As long as there is a satisfactory explanation in the essay.