SO acceptance and looks

So I have a bit of a powder keg question but here goes anyway:

Do you think your ability to look good while dressed influences your wife’s/girl friend’s acceptance of you? I know there are a fair number of bigger fellas here who would have a harder time looking feminine, does that play a part do you think? I am tall but otherwise able to pull off a decent look and have almost free rein when it comes to my dressing (there’s always a limit somewhere). I wonder if my good fortune rests to a large extent on my ability to look appealing?

This is absolutely not meant to be a contest or anything, it is just something I wondered as I have read the posts over the years. Do you think home life would be easier if you were built or looked differently?

Ugh… this is not fun to answer but I can tell you with 100% certainty that my ability to not only look like a woman but the added pressure of having to look attractive had a HUGE part in her acceptance when I came out to her as trans.

I can also report that had I said I was a crossdresser and NOT transgender, I would not be married to her.

Yes. Yes. My wife says she doesn't like that I look prettier than her when I dress up.

I do not know. I do know that I cannot nor do I want to be female every day.
My SO told me I look better than one of my 5 sisters.
I do not think I look better than my SO.

If I looked like a foolish man in a dress she would laugh at me. So I guess there is some acceptance in how I look.

Eh, no, not in my case! I usually don't bother with from the neck up as it is beyond hope! I can do well on below, but no mater I am a 60 year old guy in a dress with a rocking body, (with all the right padding and cinching!)

If I understand the premise of the post, I think your theory is accurate in my case. My wife and I just spent about 2 hours in discussion tonight about my cross dressing and changes over the last few months. She tolerates on my behalf, but doesn’t truly understand and will never get pass seeing me as simply a man in a dress (her man in fact). I can not pass and almost assuredly never will, certainly not in her mind. I do believe if I could pass she might be a little less cold to the whole thing.

She is not a girly girl and is probably even less so now than ever. She never sees herself as pretty or beautiful and only sees her own flaws in the mirror. I told her I wish she could see herself the way I do, then followed up with and sometimes I wish you could see me the way I do! She wants no part of seeing me dressed and though my own brain tries to see myself as good as possible (aka after a FaceAp alteration) she just can’t.

Anyway, back to your question. Yes, I think she would be more receptive if I could pull it all off better. Maybe when I ever get good at makeup I can find out. Probably not.

My wife has state that she doesn't like the fact that my breast forms are larger than her actual breasts.

I am one of those larger people, and I know that my appearance was troubling to my wife. Partly perhaps because I may have looked awful or absurd to her. Possibly, she was too kind to come out and say that. Having seen me often dressed she admitted that she could never entirely see me as a male again and that made our marriage untenable.

This has never come up, but possibly. As it turns out we of a like mind in many ways. My taste in clothes is very similar to hers, she has helped me extensively with makeup, and I have not veered very far from that which she has taught me. In short the my look is so influenced by her that it would be surprising if she didn't like it, in many ways its her look! I do not think she would like it if I were to dress more provocatively, but I'm not inclined to do that anyway, so I guess we're OK.

Interestingly to me at least, and in stark contrast to Kim's post, is that she says when I am fully dressed she still sees me, not as a woman, but just me. I'm still very much the same regardless of what I'm wearing. This probably helps her overall acceptance as well.

Possibly ?if you can achieve a version that your wife finds credible and not overly confronting it is likely to help

There is no one answer to this question, because my wife is both uncomfortable that I don't pass and would be made fun of and if I look to good it makes her jealous. I can wear some of her older dresses and look better than she does wearing them. It is a mater of TALKING helping her become comfortable with your dressing

As Kris has, so well said?ditto for me too. Especially makeup. Perfectly described.

Wifey doesn't comment one way or another and seems to ignore my dressing. Not sure if that's good or not

Why wife declines to be engage in any cross dressing activity. When we met I was six foot and 175 pounds. I wore a 38 Tall suit. If there was no backdrop to accentuate my height, she probably would think I looked like a long legged Scandinavian blond (my hair color back then). Fast forward to now; six foot and 200 pounds. I think she would view me as a "man in a dress." Aging does change somebody's looks. When I was young I think the turn off would have been I looked too good and somewhat threatening due to some personal unwanted she experiences as a late teenager in the military. "If I wanted to be married to a woman, I would have married a woman!" She is not a lesbian, and, absolutely would not engage in any relationship with a man pretending to be a woman. Sometimes I wonder if a woman had a voluntary and enjoyable relationship with another woman, if she would be supportive of a cross dressing husband; not feel threatened in any way. Food for thought?

My wife suggested I wear women's shirts because there were so few options with XS men's shirts. J crew only had a few XS shirts and they looked hideous. Not only were the colors awful but the sleeves were too long.
She was worried about my employment and wanted me to update my wardrobe to something more age appropriate as I approached my 50s.

I've since learned that women's bottoms also fit me better, as I don't need a belt. I've gotten complements from friends and the folks at work as my clothes fit much better now.

The only negative was from a gal who said I needed to update my Facebook page. It still has my original photo!

Marion

In my case I have a boyfriend and from the start of our relationship he's always been accepting and supportive, and I know that it's unconditional whether I look good as a girl or not. For purposes of intimacy though it definitely helps that I have a girly type figure and look as good as I do in beautiful/romantic lingerie when I come to bed. I want him to be excited about the anticipation of making love to me and I know I achieve that with how I look at bedtime.

While she always supported Me, the person she loved, and let me know it, my late wife's support for my gender expression was all over the block, and seemed to vary more with her personal struggles than anything particular I wore or any particular way I looked. We were a pair of very imperfect individuals, but our rough edges seemed to fit together perfectly, like the pieces of a jigsaw puzzle.

Thank you for the answers so far and I appreciate the extra candour from some of you. The need to express ourselves remains the same whether we are petite or rugby fullback in our appearances. It would be very enlightening to hear from some of our GGs if there is in fact this threshold that I imagine.

There are a lot of accepting and tolerant GG testimonies here and I don't remember ever reading a line about acceptance having to do with how good the spouse looked as a female. Not to say that it has zero bearing, especially if the CDer goes out, but clearly it isn't a topic wives are munching on when supporting hubby.

That is why I asked them directly, Diane. I should not need to point out that what people have done in the past does not necessarily have any bearing on what they might be thinking. However, your concerns have been noted.

Thank you for noting my concerns!

Yes. I think my wife would be more excepting of any cross dresser who passed well. She has no issues with my natural femininity. Shaving manurisms cloths I pick out for her. But side by side with a typical genetic female, I look like a large man. What ever I am wearing and my wife much prefers to see men dressed in male attire.

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Originally Posted by Mary Loo

If I understand the premise of the post, I think your theory is accurate in my case. She tolerates on my behalf, but doesn’t truly understand and will never get past seeing me as simply a man in a dress (her man in fact). I can not pass and almost assuredly never will, certainly not in her mind. I do believe if I could pass she might be a little less cold to the whole thing.

She is not a girly girl and is probably even less so now than ever. She never sees herself as pretty or beautiful and only sees her own flaws in the mirror. I told her I wish she could see herself the way I do, then followed up with and sometimes I wish you could see me the way I do! She wants no part of seeing me dressed and though my own brain tries to see myself as good as possible (aka after a FaceAp alteration) she just can’t.

Anyway, back to your question. Yes, I think she would be more receptive if I could pull it all off better. Maybe when I ever get good at makeup I can find out. Probably not.

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Mary, you saved me writing my answer as it is pretty much summed up in your post.

This is an easy answer from me.
My late wife was very concerned that I could look better than her.
I could never contemplate this as she was a very attractive woman and had a lot of style when she was dressed.
However for some reason she lacked confidence. (Perhaps I did not tell her enough)
She had a massive wardrobe spread over three bedroom closets and shoes like Imelda Marcos.
Tall and slim and wore clothes well.
For me if I looked like a guy in a dress I couldn't do this.

I think that if my wife was accepting (more tolerant) I would not be able to dress the way I want or look the way I want or do the things to my body that I want. It would be what she wants me to do and I get enough of that in my drab life.

I was lucky in the sense that my wife was very accepting from the beginning, but I do think it makes it easier that I present well. She says it's as if guy-me has gone away and Savannah has come out.

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Originally Posted by IamWren

I can also report that had I said I was a crossdresser and NOT transgender, I would not be married to her.

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Wren, I'm not sure what this sentence is supposed to mean since you don't develop and we are left to conjecturing. It has two corollaries as far as I am concerned:

1. That you have a choice between declaring yourself as a CDer or a TG to your wife. I personally don't. I am a crossdresser, not transgender (as in gender-fluid, non-binary, or gender dysphoria). I know this can overlap, in my case it doesn't.
2. It seems to establish a sort of hierarchy between CD and TG, at least in the eyes of your wife, when it comes to acceptance. Could you please elaborate why?

Back to the OP, I had a talk with my wife about the current thread's topic. Support and acceptance is given out of love. Since my wife's level of love isn't based on how good I look, the answer to the OP in my case is no, it has no bearing.
She also mentioned that the presentation DOES have consequences, should she ever have to see me dressed in pictures or face to face. For instance she would much prefer me as a MIAD than with some awkward makeup. A wife can also be concerned about how she will react the first time she sees her husband in girl mode. Like, when you are presented with an ugly baby and try to not make it show or say anything that might hurt people. But of course this only concerns the average crowd, not the elite members.

My wife is the "I didn't marry a woman" type. She would definitely not be happy if she saw me fully dressed and made up.
The more I'd be able to look the part, the worse it would be for me - so I'm pretty much stuck with MIAD mode, if I want to keep the peace (I do).

When I had my first makeover about 15 years ago my wife was stunned. She said "I didn't think you would look that good" She has been understanding about my dressing but she was really shocked at my appearance.

I know that looking good has a greater acceptance than looking like a man in a dress.

When I was younger my girlfriends really liked dressing me up as I looked as good and sometimes better presented than they were for a night out.

I have to say that I did not expect the replies that stated that looking good made it harder for them but of course, that does make sense. I had assumed a more natural presentation would make it easier to swallow so thanks everyone for the eye opening.

my wife never has to worry about me looking better than her. but i do have a good butt in yoga pants

I would say that your ability to look like a "real" woman affects everyone's acceptance of you, wife or general public.

It's a shame, but we have to accept reality even if we don't think it is fair.

My wife would definitely prefer me as a MIAD. She is not a fan of wigs, makeup, shaved legs, or breast forms. However she seems perfectly content with me wearing women's clothes around the house as long as the kids are not home. Her and I have even swam in hotel pools with me wearing a woman's bathing suit , but otherwise in male mode.

This is one of my favorite topics - trying to figure out what motivates a wife to feel or not feel one way or the other about an aspect of CDing. :)

It seems the consensus in this thread is that wives prefer their CD husbands to not look like a "ridiculous man in a dress", but it would be too much if he looked "better than her" while dressed. And so many of you believe that the magic position is somewhere in the middle, which implies that if a CDer accomplishes this then his wife will find herself in the happy place of acceptance.

I'd like to weigh in as a GG.

My feelings for my SO have nothing to do with looks. I may have been attracted by something physical in him at the beginning such as his eyes or his smile, but it is the inner being that I love regardless of how he looks or is dressed. I dare say this applies to most couples who have been together for years. Do husbands stop loving their wives as they age, get wrinkles, put on weight, or stop wearing the fashions they wore as younger women? I don't think so.

That said, many people don't like the way they themselves age. My mother put on quite a bit of weight past middle age and she was always envious of my dad's ability to eat what he wanted and not get fat. She would make comments like "I wish I had your body". I can imagine that had my father been a CDer, he would have taken it like many of you here: that my mother was envious of how much "better" my father looked than her. This was not the case at all. My mother did not compare her femininity to my father's looks. She simply wished she was not so fat. So to the CDers who believe their wives are jealous at how much "better" the CDers look than their wives, I'm guessing that you are very far from the truth.

Another truth: there is indeed prejudice in our society about CDers. The stereotype is of a garish looking CDer with a badly fitting wig, smeared lipstick badly applied, and inappropriate clothing making him look too obviously like a man in a dress whose motives for dressing are somehow depraved. But, there is a difference between a wife having in her mind's eye a hazy image of the stereotypical CDer, and seeing her husband dressed in women's clothes even if he isn't passable. As long as a husband does not obviously look like he dresses strictly for fetish, a wife will not see her husband in the same light as this nebulous CD character she may imagine when she thinks of CDers in general. She will see her husband for who he is: the husband that she loves who is wearing women's clothes, and who still looks like her husband whether he passes or not. And if she doesn't like the idea of CDing in general, she will not like that her husband crossdresses regardless of how he looks.

Many of you also mention that it is better to "look good", than to look like a man in a dress. I don't know whether you have in your mind's eye the image of the stereotypical CDer mentioned above and you don't really define what is "looking good" or "looking well", but you need to know that most people who interact with CDers do know they are male no matter how they are attired.

Another concern is the way that many CDers objectify women. If a wife takes personal affront at this, then she may object to the look if it is overly sexual, such as huge boobs or butts under skin-tight and/or too short clothing. But again, this is not jealously. Most women take great care to not look like they are trolling for men when they dress for special occasions.

The last concern is the appearance that it might be "something more than the CDing". Many wives fear the slippery slope of CDing, and believe that a husband who starts wearing breast forms, butt padding, wigs, and who starts shaving body hair, piercing his ears, growing fingernails, is on his way to wanting to be a woman full time. I don't personally believe this and instead believe that my SO did all these things because he enjoyed going out dressed and wished to do what he could to not obviously look like a man in a dress while out, even though people did know he was male when they inspected him closely. So again, the fear that the CDing might eventually lead to a condition that would rob a wife of her husband is a strong motivator for any objection she might have. Not jealousy.

You must all be careful not to project your own feelings/wishes/prejudices onto your wives. So the solution is, don't overly emphasize boobs, butts, legs, makeup when you dress. Try to dress like normal women. But other than that, whether or not your wives accept will have everything to do with their general attitudes about the CDing (whether or not they think it is OK for their husbands to wear women's clothing), and not how you look or whether or not you are passable. And if your wife fears that you will transition, then do try to respect her feelings and not push it too far.

Sorry for the length of this post but you will appreciate there are many factors to this discussion.

Reine,

I am tempted to say this may be the best post I have read on this entire site. I suspect you are dead on accurate in all of your feedback. Thank you for your reply and perspective. I think your responses are extremely valuable amongst all of our internalized posts and wishes.

Thank you again and may all your posts be this long or longer!

Many, many great points brought up by Reine. Looking good is absolutely subjective. In my case it is good enough that my wife and other women do not mind being seen with me in public; I make zero effort to blend but I move mountains to look stylish and appropriate. I do know for certain that if I looked even slightly ridiculous then I would lose those magic days where we go out together.

And yes, that whole looking-better-than-her mentality makes my skin crawl.

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Originally Posted by AngelaYVR

I make zero effort to blend but I move mountains to look stylish and appropriate. I do know for certain that if I looked even slightly ridiculous then I would lose those magic days where we go out together.

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Well, when you think of it, how many wives say to their non-CDer husbands, "You're NOT wearing [that] are you?" (Substitute "that" with that old tie, that frumpy jacket, those ill-fitting pants, that worn-out Tshirt, those old sneakers, etc.) I suppose no one wants to be embarrassed by their partners. :)

We live in a small college town in the midwest where no one dresses up for anything, ever, especially the academic types we know. So I'm afraid I've gotten used to not putting in as much effort as I do when I visit my home town, Montreal, and go out with friends. There's something about being in an urban area that I think forces people to be more aware of their appearance. lol. My SO has always been way too polite to say anything, but I've caught the look in his eyes when we were running out for pizza after I had worked on a home project (painting a room, or refinishing our wood stairs) and was still wearing my torn, paint-smeared old work clothes. Needless to say I excused myself and changed into a clean pair of jeans and a proper Tshirt. :o

Reine, I live in Vancouver, which is just the large version of your college town. Running across someone who elevated their clothes for the day beyond leggings/jeans and puffy black coat is like stumbling upon an oasis in the Sahara. 10 years ago we were named the third worst dressed city in the world and nothing has changed. My vintage dresses may as well be spacesuits!

I don't have an SO. For the most part I think the answer would be the same for anyone's level of acceptance of you if you look better. One exception might be looking too good too close to home. By this I mean around your SO. if there's issues on her part with her own appearance. By that I mean if you look better in ways she can't and she's not okay with that.

Disclaimer aside, on to the regular question. I think there's a minimum threshold for looks that will get you more acceptance. If you look like a train wreck people are going to have a difficult time with it. If you look and act like you belong and fit in and are dressed appropriately I think that could go a long way towards people feeling more comfortable around you. This also depends on the crowd you are in. Some places are accepting no matter what. Other places may not be accepting at all. Do not Overlook personality. It may not be directly visual and part of your look but it is a big part of how you present and that makes a big difference too. A smile, a winning personality, a friendly demeanor, all add to our presentation to those around us. The more positive and outgoing you are the more responsive people might be.

I think in a similar fashion your overall presentation will help your SO feel more comfortable around you. Always remember it took us a long time to reach the level of comfort we have. Our SO may not have had the same amount of time to get there yet.

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Originally Posted by AngelaYVR

Reine, I live in Vancouver

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Love Vancouver! I lived there for 15 years and was very sad to leave. We lived downtown for a while before building our house. I used to work in the Bentall Center.

... but I agree. Fashion styles have become relaxed in recent years no matter where we live, urban or rural. Young people just don't get dressed up like the prior generation. Still, I do seem to make a bit more of an effort when I'm in an urban area. Just came back from a weekend in Jacksonville FL and I actually put on a bit of makeup! Twice. lol. I never wear makeup anymore. I was trying to erase a few years off my face. :p

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Originally Posted by Genifer Teal

if there's issues on her part with her own appearance. By that I mean if you look better in ways she can't and she's not okay with that.

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It saddens me when I read posts from members gloating how they think they look better than their wives, girlfriends, strangers etc. It’s possible to better dressed (and that is relative, as well) and there is nothing wrong with aspiring to look nice but to assert that you have outdone a GG in the very essence of being a woman is extremely delusional. I did once have a woman comment to me that I looked better than the other women around; I was mortified and told her at best I was a good simulation.

Reine, I’m glad you have such fond memories of Vancouver and that the magic of makeup came to the rescue.