Anyone have it start off as arousal?

For a couple years now I have the feeling that I'm transgender and not just a cross dresser. I really feel the need to start living as a woman but I'm worried it may be a mistake down the road. The reason being because it started off as arousal for the first few years of dressing, and it seemed like a fetish but over the past 5 years it no longer turns me on. It makes me feel right, I'm more comfortable presenting as a woman and i guess Im just confused. Has anybody had a similar experience, where it started as arousal and now you've transitioned into living as a woman full time?

The short answer is yes, 40 years ago the opportunity to dress as the real me turned me on - even though it was the wrong part down there.

Part of the long answer includes recommending you to find a good therapist who has worked with trans people before.

If you are having doubts, then that's a good sign. It shows that you are not just in the pink fog.

I will repeat the advice that has been given so often here "don't transition unless you have to, but if you DO have to, don't let anything stand in your way"

Yes, in short, but more related to the excitement of awakening to the dressing. Then it all became a normality, but a deep contentment. Now with the hrt there's no arousal and life is just perfect, as it should be.

Uh.... yes. I am not a therapist and do not want to tell you who you are but I will tell you my story - actually there is a long post by me talking about the exact same thing.

But yes it did arouse me sexually. There is an old theory from the 1990s that has been debunked called autogynophilia. The argument is that you are not a woman but are a man that is only sexually aroused by the idea of being a woman.

For a short while I thought - OMG that's me !!

After some soul searching and work with a therapist I came to understand that I was simply fantasizing about sex in the 'right' body for me.

What you are describing is very common. Not everyone - but common. If you think you are transgender you probably are but a therapist would help you find that answer for yourself far better than me.

So it is the one time out of 100 that I slightly disagree with Rianna. The 'don't transition unless you have to' quote. I think there are degrees of 'have to'. Some people can't cope - they consider suicide. Others are just profoundly unhappy and some would just be happy instead of unhappy.

What is important is to not take it lightly. Once you actually pull the trigger the genie is out of the bottle - the toothpaste is out of the tube - what other stupid metaphors are there? LOL But seriously once you transition you can de-transition but you will be forever out of the closet.

Plus any physical changes you make as well.

Transition should be well thought out and deliberate but once you make the choice then find the courage to follow through.

Of course there is such a thing as autogynephilia (AG). It means being aroused by the female version of yourself. and is another form of transsexualism. I do not think I am an AG, but I can understand it. Trouble is people are so Limited in their knowledge of the various forms and motivations for CD. There is a "Humiliation" variant of sadomasochism, which is a "turn on" for some CDers, AG may be related to. Some CDers do it for the high they get from "Violating taboos", social or personal, and for other CDers, just the texture of the clothing is enough to set them off. Many CDers, like myself, are "Escapist" types, "Becoming" "Another person" and biosex to take a "vacation from themselves" and relive stress. CDing and transsexualism is a very interesting field of research with many variants that give us remarkable insights into the function of the Brain and personality.----And of course I get aroused, it started as an aid for masturbation, when I was younger, and it wasn't until later that I discovered WHY I continue to do it (Escapisim)

I will agree with the many reasons described by Marina - by 'debunked' regarding AGP it was the theory of the author that transsexualism was simply mis-directed feelings of sexual arousal related to fantasizing as being female. That is the manner in which it has been debunked by most of the profession.

Sexuality is a wide spectrum that includes many things and variations and I endorse any preferences so long as no harm is done to anyone.

I have had many discussions / arguments regarding AGP and have no desire to go down that path again. It was exhausting. If anyone is interested in the topic do a google search. But also include 'debunked' as part of that search. Read both the theory on its own and then the arguments against it.

I am going to post a new thread that includes a link regarding the 'causes' of TG.

I realized in my earlier post I mis-spelled a letter - it is autogynephilia

The author of the theory is Ray Blanchard

The best critic in my opinion is Julia Serano - I had some email correspondence with her after I read it because it was so good.

right..

Marina that is alot of very broad assertions you are making there, more like educated guesses and I'd be careful with that...

are you uninformed relative to the sordid saga of the "research" that came up with that AG term?
.its highly ignorant and offensive to use the term AG the way you do...

No question that many people get aroused AND are transsexuals...but all that means is they get aroused...

there is nothing more to it unless it causes feelings of shame and guilt...

which btw...is exactly what casually using the concept of AG does (which is specifically about gay men and fetishes about womanhood..it annihilates the idea of ts in these cases ...and it promotes shame and guilt...
and creates unnecessary and unhelpful confusion and stress)

the hugely important point I would make to the OP is that its totally perfectly completely normal... some people get aroused... some are cd's and some are ts... its not dependent...
and you have to pursue your true self without any baggage around what does or doesnt turn you on...

I agree with Kaitlyn - arousal and it's source are not the single determinant of gender orientation.

Sexual arousal does not equal gender orientation.

The reason many in the TG community find the subject of AGP so offensive is that it dramatically over simplifies a complicated combination of human needs, emotions and psychology.

UGH - If anyone wants to discuss this I will participate but at least come to the discussion after doing some research. I did it. YUCK.

It is an important piece about learning about yourself if you have questions such as the OP.

Much more educational IMHO is this article about what may cause people to be TG
Especially for most here if you want to skip down is group 3.

http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm

Wow. Thanks for the link. Group 3 describes me. I guess for most in this forum.

in a strange way, it is liberating. Guess I had put a wall up in reading the scientific literature, but now in my mid- to late years, my natural hormone levels are making more comfortable and less resistant.

thanks!

Sophiaro,
The first thing I did was check your age in your profile page , well that may say it all ! You're young with so many things happening I can relate to you comments going back to early- mid twenties . It just stages of now finding yourself , some of these issues burn themselves out , some get snuffed out by domestic pressures ( family, mortgages , work stress etc . )

OK the comment has been made about AGP , I've exhausted myself over this subject but did dig much deeper away from the forum for some time with some professionals in the field . Blanchard started the ball rolling but only related AGP to TSs . So much new work has been done , AGP covers a far greater field than first suggested and it does deal with the TG community far more now .

Love it or loath it it does have it's place in some people's situation , I still relate to it when I go back to how my CDing started . The archives are full of very heated debates over AGP , I'm not trying to start it all again , personally I feel its partly what makes me tick but I won't speak for anyone else .

You all have brought up a lot of really good points and I think there is only one way to figure out my feelings and make a decision. I found a therapist in my area and I’m going to set up an appointment. I will be very open and honest and I will be open minded with what she has to say during the whole process. With that being said I really hope the result of these conversations is her telling me that I am in fact transgender. I don’t know what that feeling means but I do know I need to go in with open mind to be sure of whatever decision I make.

Thanks for all the advice and info!

Sophia

Sounds very familiar to me..

I was plagued by these erotic feelings... they confused me and caused great distress and constant anxiety... it was a 24/7 ball and chain...its not like i could control or ignore the feelings...

...they tricked me into disbelieving myself... made me feel terrible about myself..
they seemed to preclude the idea of being transgendered "for real" in my mind... it made it seem like a fantasy ... it made me feel hopeless

You will need to learn to trust yourself regardless of the therapist... My first therapist was HORRIBLE!!! very destructive to my self image and state of mind...
i went along because after all she was a therapist...so you'll have to gauge the therapist as well...g

dont want to be too much debbie downer though...it will most likely be a great experience...its 20 years later and so much more is known... just something to be aware of...

Sophiaro - I am thrilled for you that you are going to a therapist....BUT... as Kaitlyn pointed out not all therapists are created equal. I am lucky I have a fantastic therapist that I knew before I started going to her. I chose her on purpose but it was a fluke of good luck - long story how I knew her.

But the point is that a therapist is like a boyfriend/girlfriend or husband/wife in the sense you have to find the right one for YOU. If the fit doesn't seem right find another one. They are not there to give you answers - they are there to help you find the answers for yourself.

"The desire of the man is for the woman, but the desire of the woman is for the desire of the man"

A woman desires to be desired as an expression of her sexuality. Some gay men also experience this. What they call bottoms but I would caution not to assume they are experiencing the same desire to be desired as women.

Think of it as two complementary forms of sexual energy. Those filled with desire (lust) and those filled with the desire to be lusted after.

A woman becomes aroused by the arousal of others for her . In her imagination and fantasies she is wanted. You see this expressed in romance novels.

IMO when someone is forced to hold both energies in one vessel they struggle with trying to be two opposite things simultaneously. You see this struggle played out on this forum

In my own experience the desire to be desired was so dominant that using my body sexually before transitioning caused such strong cognitive dissonance it would trigger an existential crisis. I avoided sex to avoid trauma. I knew I was asexual at puberty even though I tried to force myself not to be. I simply did not understand the asexuality was an attribute of gender identity and both were a condition of birth.

Crossdressing could be an attempt to experience your identity and your identity is wrapped up in sex. It becomes a chicken or egg problem of what came first.

I avoided sex but others use sex. I could not be wanted by a man as a man because his wanting me as a man would trigger the cognitive dissonance of not being a man. I could not cross dress for the same reasons. Anything that felt inauthentic worked as a trigger.

Unfortunately I was in a position to use women as surrogates in an attempt to live through them as a woman with emotionally devastating results for everyone, when if I had had the understanding and courage I would have transitioned earlier and avoided all that pain for everyone involved.

It was less inauthentic being with women than the inauthenticity of homosexuality but still inauthentic.

Each felt both right and wrong but for different reasons which is "crazy making"

Look toward the reasons you feel more natural and at ease as a woman. The answers are in the "Whys"

It will be influenced by your relationship with and too "authenticity".

Some people can accept inauthenticity and find satisfaction so are able to reduce their discomfort of not being authentic simply by being "less inauthentic" as a compromise. Cross dressing satisfies their emotional needs and these needs may have nothing to do with gender identity.

In some cases they are attempting to be more authentic as human beings (whole/self actualized) from the inauthenticity imposed on them & self imposed (adopted) to be men.

HOLY CRAP !!!
Kelly -
That is the second best thing I have ever read here. Pretty deep stuff but right on the mark.

If some of the depth of Kelly's post is lost on you it is worth your time IMO to take the time and digest what she is saying not just skim it.

I think it is more of an explanation of how this plays out as opposed to the 'why' but this may in fact be existentially the more important point. I am actually going to copy this and email it to myself.

OK here's is a late addition to this reply.

Warning - TMI - LOL

This is so dead on for me. Less in-authenticity. Uh - yep. I have only had sex with women. With a very few exceptions the only way I experienced orgasm was by mentally fantasizing that I was the woman having sex with a man. But I don't want to have sex with a man with the body I have and I never did want to have sex with a man before. I never was attracted to guys until transitioning. Now I am a little bit.

For me this reply was amazing. Guess I'm still here to learn things after all.

Geez, this is something I can comment on.

"The desire of the man is for the woman, but the desire of the woman is for the desire of the man".

This pretty much sums up how I felt all my life except before I transitioned, boys (when I was young) and men (as an adult) were always seen as threats. I hadn't experienced any hint of a desire from a man towards me and desire from women for me was rare.

There were two occasions when I had to question why I felt men were threats rather than a possible partner:

The first was when I found out a friend and his wife were moving out of state. I felt that loss as a shock and I could feel my eyes burn. I had to ask why I felt the way I did considering there wasn't anything between us other than friendship.

The second time was when I shared an apartment with a coworker for a month. We shared a car, rode together to and from work, worked on the same crew, he did all the driving, we went grocery shopping and out to eat breakfast before work. The only time we were apart was because we had separate days off. He was very kind and what was interesting was how comfortable I was feeling. I found out later from his daughter that when his wife came for a visit, she felt as she was visiting an old married couple. More questions I had to ask myself.

I had always been attracted to women, but I needed to know them before there was any possibility of it moving further along physically, which didn't fulfill their need to be desired because it was something I couldn't give them yet. It's a long story and I don't know if I could convey it and make it understood but what Kelly wrote speaks volumes.

Anyway, skip ahead.

I didn't feel any desire for men until after I started transitioning and then I needed to understand if I wanted to be with a man or not, how would I feel and respond if a man showed desire towards me. I meet a man and we ended up dating for about 18 months. It didn't take long and I felt like "so this is what's been missing" and it answered a big question.

I can say it felt right and I was very comfortable being in that position. He communicated very well, was very considerate and always was concerned with how I was feeling and if things were okay. He asked for permissions, but he was a top and I was very much a bottom, always had been (TMI?).

After we broke up, my therapist asked me who I would want to be with, who do I desire. Could I be with another woman or do I want to be just with men. I told him that it really depends on the person, man or woman, but I tend to imagine being with men. But neither do I want to depend on men for my happiness.

It is difficult for me to write this down for people to read because the audience is too wide and I feel like I don't make sense and then cause confusion. I do better in person, one on one, than I do with the written word.

Rachel - Thank you for sharing. It was well written and made sense - well done. And yes it was very personal for a large audience - this entire subject - this forum - is a very personal thing. I sometimes question why I share so many personal details but I know I do it for a reason - to help others on this journey that are following in my footsteps as I followed in the footsteps of others. I just hope my honesty and openness does not come back to bite me some day.

Your post helped me realize something about myself. I was always the one that was the slow one sexually with women. They always had to make 'the move'. I always thought it took time before a relationship was ready for sex - I was never the aggressor. I thought sex had to wait until the relationship was serious. I could never figure out why I was like that. It actually kind of bothered me I couldn't just hop into bed.

Thanks for sharing.

Thank you Kelly for spelling this out so well.
Posts like yours are why I return to this forum, I learn a bit more about myself through insights like yours!