Open relationships and cheating

Spawning this thread to continue a conversation and avoid hacking the original one.

To answer a few remarks from members about the judgmental crowd. I have no judgment on open relationships. I am sure they exist. And I am sure there are people happy in them. But I like also to not be told fairytales and I don't think that open relationships come by the dozen. I mean, actual open relationships. By actual open relationship, I mean a member claiming to be in an open relationship and writing a report of her latest crazy night beginning with "last night I told my SO about the crazy night I had the day before". This would be convincing. But we don't get these lines, do we? Not once, in the gazillions of super detailed accounts of crazy CD nights that we can find in these forums. I find this odd. If you never speak of your adventures with your SO, this isn't an open relationship. This isn't a relationship at all. You're just living together in the same house. Or you are in a relationship but you are hiding your adventures from your SO. That doesn't qualify much as open, does it? If you don't share anything, what's the relation? Sharing the rent?

Again, I don't judge and understand that someone actually in an open relationship may take offense of some remarks. But on the other hand, people who have suffered from being cheated on, or who fear the prospect (like my wife who started gnawing her teeth again after readings two very recent posts), or who already distrust their SO enough for having lied for years about their dressing (my case) may also be offended by the fact that cheating is treated as a no brainer in some conversations, and that the OP can be encouraged in cheating with no apparent second thoughts. Finally, some members may simply be warning the OP just because the odds are she's not in an open relationship and the said members are actually trying to avoid hell breaking loose around her. This is not judgment. This is trying to help.

We are all adults. We all understand what cheating is and what open relationships are. We also understand that some of our sisters who are in hetero relationships have an immediate and visceral reaction to any conversation involving this subject. Why? Because they are fighting tooth and nail to disprove the notion that crossdressing is a highly sexualized activity. Why do they fight it? Because they don't want the women in their livea to say, "I knew it all along!"

Well, crossdressing can absolutely be very sexualized or it can be very tame and innocent. That's entirely up to the practitioner. Our interests and our motivations dont always align and that's a good thing.

We are all adults here and we don't have to shame a person who engages in Z simply because we are trying to convince our loved ones that we have no interest in engaging in Z.

Just because some people will drive a sports car at 150 miles an hour, break the law and put everyone's life in danger doesn't mean that everyone who chooses to drive a sports car is a scoflaw. It doesn't mean that you have to hate on people who own fast cars, or even on those who are reckless. We are all adults. Live and let live.

Well, I am not entirely sure which thread this was being referred from, but as mentioned previously, just because a person does not share their activities of CDing does not make it cheating nor Lying! Cheating can be variable with different degrees depending on a person?s values and what is acceptable and/or allowed in a relationship. I would think relationships have different degrees of sharing and communications.

As far as lying which was noted previously, if this is the same reference; to lie one must tell a false statement to a question asked or say something untrue to someone or something. If one remains silent about their CD activities does not constitute a lie. Obviously, this opinion is of my own and there are certainly numerous other views and viewpoints. I believe as was also mentioned that we should not judge others for what we may not agree with. I do like the adage ?live and let live? or ? to each their own??.

Jess. 😊

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Originally Posted by MonicaPVD

Because they are fighting tooth and nail to disprove the notion that crossdressing is a highly sexualized activity.

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Very well stated and spot on, MonicaPVD. And it's a very hard sell to many (perhaps even most) women.

A previous relationship, which I ended because she decided she did not want children, was absolutely amazing. Incredibly honest with one another. While the relationship was not open I absolutely was on board with her sleeping with whoever she wanted. I was willing to playing the cuckold or we were open to sharing partners. This was not cheating as we were honest with each other. For me CDing has a sexual element in it. I think there are all kinds of relationships and these will work depending on the needs and wants of those in the relationship. Honesty, and trust are vital.

For what it's worth...

My wife and I have an open relationship. We're now in our third decade of our marriage, and have never cheated on each other. We've had sex with others, but have never...and would never...cheat. As an aside, we find it oddly paradoxical that society seems to accept cheating more readily than open relationships. Anyway, for my wife and I, open means; we can play with others, even on 'solo' dates, but we approve each other's play partners in advance. It's not the case that one of us can go on a business trip and of an evening find someone to play with. That won't happen. This works very well for us, and has worked for us for well over a decade.

CDing has never been a part of play outside our marriage. While CDing for me does have some sexual aspects (though less so the older I get), it's not the reason I crossdress, nor a benefit I think of in doing so.

My wife and I are exceptionally close, and treasure our relationship. We never lie to each other except in support of surprises, and we are 100% open and honest with each other. Honesty for us is that we tell the whole truth, not just bits of it, and we tell each other everything of note. There are no secrets with us, about anything. We are not judgmental to each other, we support each other, and we actively work to maintain that closeness. If we find something that feels like it's drawing that apart, we actively work on whatever it is to get rid of it. Our relationship is an active, ongoing effort and one that we do not take for granted.

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Originally Posted by Jessax101

Well, I am not entirely sure which thread this was being referred from, but as mentioned previously, just because a person does not share their activities of CDing does not make it cheating nor Lying!

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Jessax, this is about cheating as having an affair or a one night stand.
As for the last sentence, long debate ;)

Diane,

Thank you, thought it implied that.

Lol, OK, Love to hear.

Jess😊

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Originally Posted by MonicaPVD

We are all adults. We all understand what cheating is and what open relationships are. We also understand that some of our sisters who are in hetero relationships have an immediate and visceral reaction to any conversation involving this subject. Why? Because they are fighting tooth and nail to disprove the notion that crossdressing is a highly sexualized activity. Why do they fight it? Because they don't want the women in their livea to say, "I knew it all along!"

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Monica, I concur with the sexual driver of crossdressing, but then these members would object to that, not to cheating.

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Originally Posted by MonicaPVD

We are all adults here and we don't have to shame a person who engages in Z simply because we are trying to convince our loved ones that we have no interest in engaging in Z.

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I get your point. But it doesn't mean it is a general thing (not all of us have wives scrubbing the forums, and even then, not all of us are hiding things anymore to them). When some members say what GGs say, they may simply agree with them, with no hidden agenda.

"We're in an open relationship, but we've never cheated on each other"

Most ridiculous statement I've read on here in some time.

Charlotte, if two consenting adults have agreed the rules by which their relationship will be governed, and stick to those rules, then neither is cheating on the other.

Your statement is judgemental.

As is DianeT's OP. I mean, "I have no judgment on open relationships ... but ..." is judgmental in itself.

Gale, please read my post again. The "but" in question is challenging the reality of the openness of some relationships. It has nothing to do with my personal rating of such relationships. So, no judgment here. Just some questioning of our definition of open relationships, especially when I see a member declaring to be in one while hiding stuff from his SO. Anyway I don't believe the definition to be the same for everyone. A reason why I give mine in the original post, so you can challenge it.

To answer to another poster, I agree that open relationship does NOT equate cheating, the agreement and how it is adhered to is the measure of that, and said agreement can be very different from one couple to another.

so cheating is now defined as....
sex with someone not our partner?
sex with someone our partner hasn't vetted?
breaking the rules of the "agreed openness"?
I thought open could be "tell your partner what happen last night" OR "DADT " (like a lot of CD'ing)

I'm not in an open relationship and got no interest, but seems people have different ideas of "cheating"
In an open relationship I would have thought "cheating" was falling in love with someone else and wanting to exit the existing open relationship.

I do NOT have an open marriage, and that's just fine with me. My heart, my body, my - world belongs to my wife.
Frankly I like it that way.

(if only she could fully accept and embrace my "Sara" side...)

We dont have an open marriage. I feel bad for us because we dont have any intimacy due to my issues. My wife wants a masculine man not me. I would understand if she told me she wanted to be with a man and agree that she should. It would also wreck me emotionally.

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Originally Posted by MonicaPVD

We are all adults. We all understand what cheating is and what open relationships are. We also understand that some of our sisters who are in hetero relationships have an immediate and visceral reaction to any conversation involving this subject. Why? Because they are fighting tooth and nail to disprove the notion that crossdressing is a highly sexualized activity. Why do they fight it? Because they don't want the women in their lives to say, "I knew it all along!"

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Factually, CDing does have sexual components for most of us. And, some SO's may even consider self sex when dressed to be "cheating". But, this is day and nite different from cheating with another person no matter how you're dressed!:sad:

Involving another person in your romantic life secretly is cheating in everyone's book!:thumbsdn:

It's nice to know that on a forum that gives outlet for people who do something that is generally not socially acceptable, that we can find negative judgment for something else that is generally not socially acceptable. Wow! Wonderful stuff! <exiting this thread now, and staying faaaaar away from it>

Julie, this thread isn't about judging, it's discussing how people may receive some threads discussing about cheating and linking it to open relationships. I have seen no judgment in the posts so far, if you did let us know.

Also:
Monica raised an interesting point that would deserve a thread in its own. The fact that members (like me) who have a SO subscribed to these forums may be very vocal about some subjects in an attempt to convince their SOs of something. Personally I have an agreement with my wife that I can express myself freely here, even if it troubles or even hurts her at times. We have frequent discussions together after some posts I wrote. I don't think I him holding off, maybe I am unconsciously, who knows, and of course I can imagine that some members will not be 100% transparent when a SO can read their posts. Thinking however that they would virulently call out cheating in an attempt to convince their SO that they don't seems a bit of a stretch in my opinion. It would be risky, and needlessly calling the attention of their SO to the topic.
Remember also that these are public forums and can be Googled, so the SO isn't the only one watching.

Judging

The problem with judging people is that, we all do it subconsciously. It may not always be voiced.

I would say please remember its their life not yours.

I am not saying not to question the validity of any statement just be very careful.

Open Relationships
I am sure there are a number people in open relationships.

That can mean different thing to different people.

This leaves a lot of options.

Does each partner want to know when the other has been with someone else ?

Do they want to hear nothing ?

Do they want all the details of what happened ?

What does each individual consider is cheating ?

This is only a few of the obstacles that couples would be facing.

Diane,

I'm replying under the assumption that your opening comment was not directed at me. You don't know me from Eve, so you wouldn't have any reason to accuse me of lying. If I'm wrong... I am in an actual open relationship. My comment on the other thread was in response to an earlier post stating that people in open relationships don't care about their partners. That poster's experience was, unfortunately, a bad one. That doesn't mean that that's the case for everyone.

I think the reason you don't see reports of sexual activity followed up by a note that it was discussed with the SO is that we don't really talk about sexual activities here. This is not the forum for that. Sure, we discuss sexuality. Sometimes, in discussing sexuality, there is a request for others to share their experiences. I have seen a few cases of someone saying something they're not supposed to and some innuendo about what can happen at Keystone. The detailed reports of grand nights out that I've seen stop short of any sexual activity, though. It's certainly possible that I'm missing these threads, but this seems to be a very tame forum in that regard, with strict rules, and very efficient moderation.

I don't think you have to worry too much about members here encouraging cheating. The OP on the other thread was well flogged for mentioning that she had even been thinking of doing it. Hopefully, she appreciates that that was meant to help and it causes her to think long and hard before going any further.

Dana

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Originally Posted by DianeT

Gale, please read my post again. The "but" in question is challenging the reality of the openness of some relationships. It has nothing to do with my personal rating of such relationships. So, no judgment here. Just some questioning of our definition of open relationships, especially when I see a member declaring to be in one while hiding stuff from his SO. Anyway I don't believe the definition to be the same for everyone. A reason why I give mine in the original post, so you can challenge it.

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Dianne, I have re-read your OP and I was wrong; you were not passing judgement.
You were expressing suspicion.
Listen to Elvis Presley's "Suspicious Minds".
Like cheating, suspicion can and does destroy a relationship.
Mutual trust is an essential component of any successful relationship, open or otherwise.

To Dana : No, I wasn't pointing at you, nor anyone in particular from this recent thread I alluded to, and I'm sorry if you felt so. Other the years, I have seen a lot of posts talking about situations that could appear as cases of cheating in a very detached way. The posts in question (which are a subset of the posts in the said threads) can be easily identified because they respond to each other and generally ignore the dissonant voices. Dissonant voices can be judgmental, but they can also be trying to help, to reason the OP to avoid hell breaking loose around her (the proof of this is that some persons who clearly condemn the thing can spend the rest of their post giving advice in an attempt to help the OP). I created this thread to draw the attention to the fact that what may appear as a judgmental bunch may also be a helping crowd, and that they - may - not always be wrong about some assumptions.
About the SO, I am just surprised that they never appear in the conversations about the outings. Not necessarily talking about sex, but it could be along these lines: "did you enjoy your last evening/your new dress/this new place/did you make friends" etc. It seems odd to me to never see such lines. Then again, like I said, maybe my definition of an open relationship isn't correct and I have a wrong impression. I know them from articles I read, and remember that the members of the couple were generally getting along, discussing and sharing some of their experiences, without necessarily going into much detail.

To Gale : I won't beat around the bush, after years reading threads about extra-marital excursions, yes, I have my doubts. I don't think it's being suspicious, merely being realistic. We are humans. We don't always say the truth. And another problem is that these threads usually go this way:
1. An Original Postress plans a sexual encounter but is married (or with an SO), and never mentions in all her previous posts that she is in an open relationship
2. Some members tell the OP that this is cheating, and it isn't right (in more or less civil words)
3. Other members explain that this is not cheating if you are in an open relationship, and sometimes that they are themselves in one. Problem : these members are advocating for the OP without knowing if she is actually in one too. She may very well be cheating, and the members objecting be right after all
I also observe that members who have been in the closet for a long time (like me) are experts at hiding things and divert embarrassing questions. I don't see why, when confronted with criticism about a questionable behaviour, they would suddenly become a 100%-honest crowd.
Anyway, again, just my opinions. And thanks for re-reading and responding :)
P.S. Totally agree on the trust being needed in a relationship. I learned this the hard way, trying to keep my "secret garden" as a CDer.

I get what you are saying DianeT. Not long ago I responded to an OP according to what she had written. Another member of the forum PM'd me to point out that that particular post was in contradiction to earlier posts by the OP. The member did compliment me, though, on the soundness of the advice I had given, assuming that what the OP had posted was true.

So, yeah. I assume truth until proven otherwise. I don't allow suspicion to cloud my sunny disposition.

Actually, it's a very interesting point. Like you, I always begin by assuming that what a person tells me is the truth. But what does it really mean? We all know that people can lie, and nobody would immediately trust a stranger in a conversation where there is some level of stake at play. Like, you go shopping and your son is dragging behind and you have that friendly bystander telling you "go ahead, I'll play with your son while you're doing your errands. He'll be safe with me. Really really."
No, it simply means that, while you know there are X% chances that a new acquaintance won't be telling the whole truth to you, you chose to base your initial interactions with her on the fact that she does. Because otherwise you may missing out on a lot of things in life.
So having your reservations doesn't mean that you question every post you read. It means that in a hundred of them, you know some will be less sincere than others. And like you, I have a sunny disposition towards people, I am often the last to believe the negative stuff that is told and have been considered very candid at times because of this. I got that sometimes: "you don't see the obvious". Well, I see the obvious. But as long as the other theory (the sunny one) hasn't been refuted, I try to stick to it and keep my doubts for myself. In the course of doing this, you will be fooled or mistaken quite a few times. You will eventually reach a point where you will wonder if you wouldn't have been better off sticking to the rainy side instead, so you would never be fooled again. I got there a few times.