From CD to Transition

Over more than 10 plus years, I have looked at all my blue flags of remaining as a CDer till one day realizing there are a lot of red flags (of crossing the line). Till today, I am in the process of transiting (almost 2 months of HRT)
This is tough because in the process of discovery, when my ex demanded that I be truthful in our marriage, I simply thought to myself, that if i am to be truthful to her, i have to start with being truthful to MYSELF. Well, she was not quite happy with me being truthful to myself.
It is at that point that I talked to my doctor and my therapist and challenged the Blue and Red flags.

I realized many those Blue flags that i thought are blue flags are Misconceptions?
Because in the end, when i made decision to transition...none of these below matters in determining whether I should transition.
Well, they did hold me back for a couple of therapy sessions.

(Blue flags are what I call signs that I should remain as a CDer)
Blue Flags examples that i thought 10 years ago I will not transition or I am not transgender are
1) I do not hate my genitals
2) I do not have gender diaspora
3) I do not go all out to try to be a super guy to overcompensate my gender issues (example building muscles)
4) I genuinely love guys sports, playing and watching
5) I can go without dressing for months (going out) (I am under-dressed 100% of the time)
6) I enjoy the attention as a guy
7) I enjoy flirting as a guy
8) I am one of "the guys"
9) I excel as a guy
10) I enjoy being a father/fatherly figure (I have no kids on my own, but nevertheless enjoy being a fatherly figure to a couple of relatives)
11) I am not gay

This is a confusing post. You speak as though being on hormones is transitioning. While it may be a beginning, or a part of transition it, in and of itself, is not. There are many people who take hormones and do not transition. I did for 18 years, certain that I would never actually transition. I even had completed electrolysis 37 years before I transitioned.

There are people who have transitioned and do not take hormones. A good friend of mine has completely transitioned without any medical intervention because of health issues.

It seems that you have no problem identifying as male. Nor do you express any dissatisfaction with your body.

Again, I am confused. We will see where this thread goes.

Jeri Ann, yes, i have in midst of transition and have worked out a rough plan for transition. Other than being on HRT, I am living full time during my weekends till i find a job which allows me to go full time during weekdays too. I have already went for one interview. My guess the job market is tough on transgender and especially so during such Covid period. anyway, my doctor says take my time, so i am still trying to find my feet around in my transition period.

Yes, there are many who are on HRT with no plans for transition and the Hormones help to manage the urges and desires.

yes, my doctor says it is not a criteria to remove your parts to transition and not all transgender has a strong dislike for their body.
In a way, our gender identity might not be closely related to how much we dislike some of our body parts.

I just like to highlight that gender identity issues are quite deep and one should explore deeply with a therapist and good doctors.
It is my regret that I mistaken all these "Blue flags" and delay what is "inevitable" and causing a lot of hurt to my SO.
In her words, I wasted a lot of her time (more than 10 years).

As Jeri An I am confused in your thread too.

For me transition is kind of vague concept for many (it's not a surprise, even thought trans people is being with us for centuries, science is beginning to understand it)
There is one clue that tells us what transition means and is the acronym mtf of ftm, male to female or female to male. For me that means that there's the need of change the gender from one was assigned at birth, but for many as in my case, don't know they have that need or that conflict, for many reasons and one of them is lack of information and there's abundant information battling innout minds against any attempt to even understand or try to change the gender as social preconceptions and stereotypes learned from childhood that hide the symptoms of this conflict of gender and disguise with something else.

One of the symptoms that make this situation worse is the gender dysphoria. For many this is a serious issue that is the main cause that the rate of suicide between trans people be around 40%. It's hard to exactly know that number because we don't know how many died without even leave a letter regarding their feelings of dysphoria, for obvious reasons.
So all this issues, in my case took me to "start my transition around 14 years ago, when I did specific acts towards change my gender without even knowing about transgenderism os gender dysphoria. Later, may be 4 years ago, I was able to put the dots together, but just 2 years ago I start HRT because I already accepted myself ut to dress wasn't enough and now I knew I was needing something else. All this gave me the guts and urgent need of do something more drastic on the "transition from being a male to a female".

For me, as many here, hormones make deep and evident changes in my mind more than in my body, and that, for me, is unknown of being just a placebo effect or a real change but it worked for well, at least for me. So I don't understand how some trans people can transition without HRT but that's is topic for another thread.
Being in hormones I realized that my issues were more than just dress as a woman.
For me, when a person needs to go out, presenting themselves according with the gender they feel comfortable is just the tip of the iceberg.

With all that said, I agree with your wife that you're going to ruin her life and I don't see the urgency to get in hormones, for what?

May be my lack of English proficiency made me to don't understand your thread but it's what I see.

I understand what your wife says about you made her waste 10 years of her life. It could be considered a selfish reaction but is really normal because, we, women are not rational but emotional and as for us, for her it must be really difficult to understand you.
Mho.

Devi

No pro but you seem hung up on being a "guy"! If you are transitioning from male, what are you transitioning to? I quit the "guy" stuff years ago! I am just not following your logic here! Elbow Bump Lana Mae

I'm sorry but I had to do a lot of edit to my previous post because it was 5 am and I was rushing to write my overloaded thoughts.

Tee, reading again and again your original and second posts I keep seeing so many contradictions and using your own words, finding so many "red flags". You mention "a couple of therapy sessions" I don't know how long you had been in therapy, you say not suffering from gender dysphoria and being comfortable and enjoying to be a guy so what bothers you so much to take you to ruin your wife's life?

I think I understand this post. In Tee's roundabout way they are saying once upon a time they thought they were "only a CD," but with time, experience, and therapy, they now realize they are transgender and are in the process of transitioning. What they are reviewing are all of the reasons they thought they were "only a cd."

So, if I interpreted your post correctly Tee, I would have to agree. Once upon a time I also thought I was "only a CD." I have been one of those who has been very reluctant to admit what was truly going on. I too thought that many of my behaviors and likes and dislikes meant I was not like the other who transitioned. I had a firm picture in my mind that those who transition are the ones who have known for their entire lives that they are transgender. Like my friend who tried to cut off her penis when she was five years old. That is a huge obvious sign that you should transition. I never had such an obvious sign. I had lots of little red flags though, but I did not see them as such until I actually began the transition process.

I'm not quite sure why Devi got so hung up on the idea of ruining your wife's life. Hmmmm???? Whatevs...... I am not a subscriber of the idea that a spouse can ruin another spouse's life. As adults we are free enough to at least make a personal choice on who we chose to stay together with. Many things often go into that choice, but it is still just a choice. People need to take responsibilities for their own choices. Which I think Tee's spouse did, as Tee refers to her as her ex. Pretty sure that means the marriage is already over.

Okay, so maybe I read too much into this, but I don't think I did.

Best of luck to you Tee!

It sounds like you have lots of valid reasons for not transitioning and seem to do well as a man and don't have a problem being male. That's a great thing! Seems like you are trying to talk yourself into being a transsexual.

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Originally Posted by Vickie_CDTV

! Seems like you are trying to talk yourself into being a transsexual.

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I thought the same thing too. And not in just this case either. I wonder how many counselors are just pushing or going along with that too Instead of really trying to get to get to what's going on.

Lots of discussion on this site about how it's the inevitable progression. Is it peer pressure from people on this form to progress? Is it just getting carried away like a hobby that becomes consuming?

Reading this and other posts here, I get the feeling that the term "transition" means different things to different people. Any responses are coming from the poster's point of view and not from a fixed definition of the term "transition".

In my opinion, the decision to transition is the most important decision you can possibly make in your life other than the decision to end your life. It is not to me made without a lot of thought and it will turn your life and the lives of your loved ones upside down.

Reading your post, I don't think you have thought enough about this to make that decision.

Just my opinion, of course.

All my life I tried to talk myself into *not* being a transsexual. I did what society and family expected of me for 61 years, except for increasingly frequent clandestine forays into my female self. And this in spite of knowing I wanted to be a girl since 9 years of age. This past winter I had to finally face the truth, and I'm 5 weeks on HRT now. All of course with the help of a therapist and a second opinion of another therapist who wrote the HRT letter. Yes, it's a scary, bumpy ride. There's a lot at stake. I'm retired, so a job isn't one of them thankfully (though the coronavirus stock market crash is a big worry that I man NEED a job at some point), but my wife is not on board. Alas with the COVID-19 crisis we can't go anywhere so we have to endure each other, and my transition apart from HRT is sort of on pause, while I self-isolate in a hostile environment. It's not easy.

@Paulie, I can't answer that. My therapist certainly didn't "push" me into anything. She just facilitated me coming to my own conclusions. On her first assessment, on our first visit, where I came presenting male, she said at the end of our discussion "I get the impression you are just a crossdresser". When I came to our next session dressed as a woman, she started to see there was a lot more going on but without yet coming to a conclusion. She provided me with a safe environment to talk about it. Being transgender was the conclusion *I* arrived at. Then she sent me to a WPATH 7 expert for a second opinion, which resulted in the HRT letter.

I certainly didn't feel any peer pressure on this forum. Quite the contrary, the incredible array of presentations from part-time under-dressing all the way to transition, with non-binary, non or partial transition, etc., along the way made me profoundly question where *I* stood on the spectrum. If anything, I wasn't pressured but second-guessed as I started to draw closer and closer to my conclusions.

I'm still struggling, mainly with guilt about my wife, and one of my sons who is having big issues coping with it. My other two kids, both adults, have been overwhelmingly supportive. The coronavirus pause is in a way a welcome break to reflect and take my time. The HRT, while confirming the need/desire to transition, also have calmed the anxiety and taken away much of the sense of *urgency*. I can take it one day at a time and accept this enforced pause more philosophically.

I'm an example of someone who has "transitioned" without hormones or surgery.

I have female mannerisms and speech, so that I easily "pass" on the phone. My walk genders me as female.

I've used diet and exercise to obtain an hourglass figure, 32A-25-33. I've also grown out my hair so it is about as long as anyone else around my age.

I've considered HRT but I'm already small and petite, so I really don't want to lose any height, as is commonly reported, or any strength, as is typical from muscle loss.
And I don't really want to take HRT pills for the rest of my life.

The smallest clothes sold for Juniors at Kohls and VS fit me perfectly right now. Well, maybe I do have hem the pants but HRT or surgery isn't going to fix that.

Marion

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Originally Posted by Paulie Birmingham

I thought the same thing too. And not in just this case either. I wonder how many counselors are just pushing or going along with that too Instead of really trying to get to get to what's going on.

Lots of discussion on this site about how it's the inevitable progression. Is it peer pressure from people on this form to progress? Is it just getting carried away like a hobby that becomes consuming?

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Paulie,

I don't believe many counselors or therapists are pushing many of us anywhere. There are some out there, but they are in the small minority. As for peer pressure on this forum I do not see that at all. what do you consider peer pressure? Most people here support, give advice and many times ask some very pertinent questions. And, Yes, there is also a lot of cheering when someone goes on hormones or schedules surgeries. I do not see the bad in that. Please cite some actual examples. Thanks.

As to Tee's situation and post, I agree with Nadine who said all I wanted to say and said it better!

It's interesting to note that Tee hasn't responded.

I totally get Tee's point of view.
I'm older so its fair to say that there was almost no information out there for me. She has alot more info from the start.

Anyway
I'm still a guy's gal.
Im still a dad
My interest in dressing up was more about it being the only way I could express myself.. I barely dress at all
but to be fair I have alot of hair and I had FFS and it really worked well for me...So I am very blessed in this regard to have that option

I identified as a crossdresser for 40 years...altho I called myself and "uber crossdresser" because I always had the feeling of becoming
I wished I was a girl...I never thought I was one, and frankly the idea that I am a woman is still difficult for me
I like all the things I've always liked and I cant think of any traditional female things that Im especially fond of..

I think its super helpful to talk about how different we all are in coming to the conclusion that we are T or NB or whatever .... its not always "I knew from when I was 6" and its not always the case the any of us are truly socially comfortable as females.

I think that some of what people are reacting to in Tee's post is the idea of why she is transitioning and what she views transition to mean for her is not there.
Sometimes trans women especially (me too) focus on the concept of hard this is, and how much really hard work we have to do mentally, physically, financially etc..

Tee you like football?? We all have to be the fearless Quarterback of our transition... but the real work and real success comes in the trenches... its blocking and tackling that wins.. I always loved that analogy for all kinds of things in life!!!! it works here

So what do you think?? I'm curious to hear why and why now. You may be the type of woman who just doesnt suffer it... there are lots here that have not had big issues coming to terms and taking action when they felt the time was right..

if you are transitioning, you are well served to get every perspective you can and an important part of that is communicating your own feelings...
It would be interesting to hear from you more and I hope you feel that comments are helpful

-k

I read your last paragraph Jean.. In a way we have parallel lives. Although I don't have no kids to worry about just stepson .I also need to do need this to calm me down and lower my anxiety. I will take it one step at a time. We will see, yes it will be a bumpy ride. But you never know what's at the end of the road until you start driving down it.

I can add little to the extensive responses you've already received, Tee, but I too am confused by your many reasons why you are OK with "being a guy". Why DO you want to transition?
FWIW, a lot of that "guy stuff" you still enjoy does not make you a guy. Some of my peers, in various sports (guiding whitewater trips, alpine skiing, motorsports, etc.), as well as my former profession (firefighter/paramedic) were women. I can say with certainty that none of them thought that their recreational or professional pursuits made them less a woman. Gender identity is something you are, not what you do.

So true Kelly... two components to that feeling of "guyness". One is that we are socialized as males it can become ingrained and many of us actively try to embrace that socialization... sometimes its literally beaten into us..

the other thing is that socialization is not even close to universal.. its not an either or... sports fans, construction, playing with trucks, hanging with the guys, hating to wear a dress... lots of girls fit into that mold, and lots of girls are influenced by people around them from a masculine figure in their lives...

Quite right Kaitlyn, I've had 61 years of being male beaten into me. It's like changing between the brake and accelerator in a car, the proper responses come reflexively without thinking about it. On the other hand becoming a woman is like someone who has only ever driven automatics and worse was into left-foot braking, and now has to learn how to drive a stick and coordinate clutch, brake, accelerator and gearshift.

Sometimes when the going gets tough, staying male does seem to be the path of least resistance. But it's also the path of leading a double-life, and of never being true to self, of perpetuating lies to spouses and friends, of living in the shadows.

That said, as I go through this transition, two things I will guarantee:

1) you'll have to pry my cold dead hands from my collection of HO scale trains.
2) you'll have to pry my cold dead hands from my manual transmission VW wagon, until it dies. And then *only* if affordable manual cars are no longer available, or I'm crippled, will I buy an automatic. This girl loves to drive!

Women have fought for decades to overcome stereotypes of what they can or cannot be and what they can or cannot enjoy. It has liberated them and it should apply to trans women as well. We shouldn't feel ashamed to hang onto some of the activities or sports we enjoyed as a man. I for one will still continue tearing up the roads on my road bike and gravel bike. When the stores reopen though, I might splurge on a nice pink jersey!

As for men... they too should fight to be liberated from stereotypes. But that precious man-card is hard to let go...

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Originally Posted by JeanTG

On the other hand becoming a woman is like someone who has only ever driven automatics and worse was into left-foot braking, and now has to learn how to drive a stick and coordinate clutch, brake, accelerator and gearshift.

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The whole notion of learning to be a woman does not resonate with me. I am female, socially, mentally, emotionally and now physically. I didn't have to learn how to become that. All I had to do is stop pretending to be a guy. It was actually the easiest part of transition for me. It required no thinking and no effort. I was very successful at being a guy because I was a good actress.

That being said, there were things that I came to enjoy and things that I became good at. I am looking for a house to buy. The day after tomorrow my realtor and I will tour eight houses. On my list of criteria are, space for my tools/shop as well as a sewing room. A big, well equipped kitchen and a place to keep my fishing tackle is important too.

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Originally Posted by Jeri Ann

The whole notion of learning to be a woman does not resonate with me. I am female, socially, mentally, emotionally and now physically. I didn't have to learn how to become that. All I had to do is stop pretending to be a guy. It was actually the easiest part of transition for me. It required no thinking and no effort. I was very successful at being a guy because I was a good actress.

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Jeri Ann I had always found wisdom in your words and you know you had been a role model for me. Now I celebrate your great luck but this time I disagree with your words. They are your experience but I don't think are the experience of many.

I'm a natural seeker and that has taken me to learn so many things.
I had to learn to leave the roots, habits, belief, mind set and many other things from the country where I was born to come and learn other many from a new country, different culture, new language, etc. When I was a teenager an uncle, that lived here for around 35 years, that I was born to live in this country but the big backpack of being a Chilean had been hard to leave. Now I know that When I was a teenager too I knew that I was a woman but I didn't have enough information to understand that knowledge and I just buried deep in my mind to the point of forget it. Later in life, very late, being around in my 50's I discovered and remember those forgotten feelings of being a woman, those deeps desires of femininity but they were covered with very strong habits, rooted in the unconscious mind, that area that begins to form when we are even babies, stereotypes, natural masculine reactions to pain, angry, happiness, love, etc.
I tried so many times to learn to be, to behave, to feel as a woman, to act as a woman, talk and have the higher pitch of a woman, to walk as a woman...etc., etc. the list is so long and impossible but in this struggles I found my reality, I'm a transgender woman , as to had been a Chilean now living in the States I'm now a woman living in the body of a man and I think that's very helpful to be honest with me and with the world so they can see what a transsexual person is. For me to try to act as a woman and do everything as a woman would be the same as to say I was never a Chilean, that would be a dishonest attitude and if something we trans people living out of the closet have is honesty, honesty to say to the world who we are.
Now I'm happy. My grandson, 10 years old, ask me just last week if I would like things would be different in the past and I answer him, nope, because to had been a man let me have three kids and one grandson that I love.
I wasn't lucky as you and for so long I had to pretend to be a woman so now I understand those that are doing it.

mho.

Devi

Devi I was not speaking for everyone. That's why I said the notion did not resonate with me. I simply described my experience. I really don't understand how you can disagree with my experience. Sheesh!

For me it has been a mixed bag with respect to "learning". Some things come naturally. My wife said she always knew, when she came home, that I had been dressing from my gestures and mannerisms. I myself had never noticed it. So on a subconscious level some things have been like you.

On the other hand, some things like fashion, coordinating, accessorizing, are on a learning curve. I can't say I have good female role models in my family at the moment. My mother and my aunts are all dead since 20 years. My wife is not at all feminine. She's more "sporty" and usually wears very unisex clothing, no jewellery, not even pierced ears, and never any makeup. And her mannerisms aren't especially feminine either. It wouldn't take much work for her and I to switch roles: me wife, her husband. So it's been learn-as-I-go: makeup course, helpful hints from my therapist ("a woman your age would NEVER wear that colour of lipstick and nail polish"). On the other hand she said I dress in a very classic style and the first time I went to her dressed, she clued in that I wasn't just a "transvestite" because all of her TV clients tended to dress in a fetishistic manner.

However for a good 4-5 years, I had stopped paying attention to my male appearance, and I think it drove my wife crazy (she liked to see me nicely turned out even though she hardly ever reciprocated). I'd wear the same two shirts in winter (one in the wash, one on me), and two other ones in summer (short sleeved). I have a couple of pairs of male jeans, some really ratty ones for dirty work (changing the oil on my tractor for instance), one nice sports jacket, two pairs of khakis to go with said jacket, a couple of dress shirts. The rest all went into storage, and much of it given to charity.

Plus there's the stuff that will be work. Passing without laser is definitely a big issue. Alas my first appointment was March 30, that was just after my province went on lock-down. Hair too is a challenge... too much balding. So I struggle with wigs, and when I'm too lazy to wear one, or it's too hot out, scarves and bonnets. I have a high-quality wig for going out, and a less expensive one for sports, going out in bad weather, etc.

Right now I cannot start my real-life experience without antagonizing my wife. She was going to retire on March 30 and then head to our other home on the West Coast to begin a separation and I begin my real-life experience of 1-2 years. Then the damned virus came along. She's extended her work for another two months to help with that (she's a doctor), and we can't go anywhere anyway as we are in lock-down and there are travel restrictions. I'm limited to wearing women's jeans and shirts and displaying my newly (March 4th) pierced ears. I'm chomping at the bit to get started. At least I am on HRT now and the effects have been very, very good, both mental (and less rapidly) physical.