Crossdressing is not a problem? it is who we are.

The counsellor asked them what the problem was.
"Well, I'm a cross-dresser."
"Yes? So what's the problem?"
At this point the counsellor turned to her wife and said, "Well, I'll have to ask you, then, since (s)he clearly doesn't know. What's the problem?"

"Well, he's a cross-dresser."

"No," said the counsellor. "I'm not being clear enough. If you came to me and said, 'He's a race driver,' that wouldn't be the problem. That's just who he is. The problem might be that he's spending too much time with his buddies, and you're feeling neglected, or that you're worried about his safety, or that he's spending all of the household budget on fixing up the car. Do you understand what I'm saying? He's a cross-dresser. That's who he is. What's the problem?"

Very good post. I can see wear many here could ponder this and find a peace of mind.

I get where this is aiming at, but when you take the sexual and gender identity dimension out of the equation by choosing the example of a race car driver, you are ignoring major issues that are specific to crossdressing (or at least to some crossdressers). So the reasoning is flawed from the start for many of us.
Also, referring to the practice of race car driving as something defining the identity of a human being is an assumption that needs some evidence first. And so does crossdressing. As a crossdresser I don't feel like the dressing is defining me. At least no more than my love of music or any other thing I like to do. I know, I can't quit dressing. But I can't quit listening or making music either.

I think "the problem" is a CURIOSITY as to WHY one is a crossdresser. Once I finally figured it out, I was much more comfortable with it. (I was using CD to occasionally ""detach" from my personal identity for the relaxation, the "highs", eroticism and other factors associated with such detachments) I was also comforted and relieved with knowing I was NOT Homo or transsexual (which is, for some reason) the biggest FEAR of most of us hetero types, and the best method to avoid "trouble" was to simply keep my personal proclivities secret from those whom it might upset or not understand.

In the case of ACTUAL homosexuality or transsexuality a similar attitude might also be adopted where one copes with the situation and behaves as one sees fit.

Unfortunately, often the problem for the wife is that the husband did not disclose that is who he is before she agreed to marry him, or he minimized or did not know how much of a part of him it was or would become. Although a cute post, this little vignette is entirely from the crossdresser point of view. I would venture that, for those of us that are in relationships with GGs, that we be extremely sensitive to how our crossdressing feels to them and how it impacts how they view us as their partner.

Only the strongest relationships with the most understanding and flexible women survive this. I do not get to fully dress as Nancy in the presence of my wife, but I feel very lucky to have what level of acceptance I have. She is who she is as well!

Good discussion. Definitely valuable to ask what about crossdressing makes someone uneasy, and good point by NancyJ that many of our wives are trying to work with our CDing but for whatever reason find it a challenge. Give them credit for doing their best.

I agree with the story Julia tells. What we do in and of itself hurts no one. It is the reaction of others to CDing, or more important how our CDing has an effect on others, that creates the problem. Similarly, it is our own response to the reaction of others which causes our own angst. Getting beyond that and recognizing that , from the perspective of both parties is where the problem lies.

Julia, I love it. Status is not a crime.

It is not really a problem in and of itself because we all wear clothes, at least most of the time. But it is an issue in the social context. One of the problems is that it is still strongly believed that crossdressers are advertising a desire to be sexually attractive to others of the same sex and in a marital context that is infidelity. The fact is, sometimes that is the motivation and in a marriage that is usually bad news for the wife. They have every reason to be concerned. At least until they find out that is not the motivation (if that is truly the case).

In short, crossdressing still clashes with social expectations. Curiously though if women crossdress intentionally to present themselves as a man in casual men's clothes like jeans, boots, and a men's shirt few make a fuss and it is just a bit different. But few think she is trying to hook up with another woman even though she is perhaps just as likely to be doing that as a crossdressed man. Works both ways, but not many think of it that way. And in fact, some research has found that there are likely as many low level transgender women as there are men in those categories. It is just that women can engage in that kind of gender expression with almost full acceptance by everyone. Men can't.

So, in my mind, therein lies the problem. There are different expectations for men and women with regard to crossdressing and those differences come from our backward thinking about gender identity and our frequently equating sex and gender as being basically two faces of the same thing. They are to a very limited extent but not nearly to the extent that most people in Western Culture think they are linked. In other cultures it is no problem even if you are transgender because they view sex and gender as being quite different than we do. To them gender is who you are and who you are is not solely about your sex.

In our world, masculinity and femininity is still thought to be closely linked to sexuality and the behavior of each is due to their sex and not the personal view of what their role and place is in the context of the total society. The science says this kind of thinking is erroneous, but custom, traditional, and stubbornness overpowers reason and that kind of thinking is persistent but seems to be changing except in the minds of some who just don't get it.

Solution? One is to convince the mate that you are not just a man in a dress, but are partly of that gender identity, if that is truly the case. How? By your behavior. Not mannerisms, but your deeper behavior and view of the world around you; if male you are able to THINK not only as a male but also as a female and act upon that behavior in ways that are associated with the female gender. That is, you are capable of being female-like even though not sexually female. Then you will be consistent with the nature of gender identity and will be more convincing that it is you and you don't have ulterior motives. Honesty.

It is a funny story and cute, and we all get the point. But guaranteed, if that was a real scenario, that counselor would never see that wife for a second session due to the lack of empathy shown towards her. BTW, did you know that fifty percent of clients who come in for an initial counseling appointment never return for a second one? The counselor has to show a genuine interest in the feelings of both parties to have any chance to be helpful to couples. Again, cute story, but self-serving from the perspective of a CD. Nancy

Hmm - Cute little story, but my first reaction was expecting her to answer with:
"It's not much that he is a crossdresser. It's that he DOES crossdress - and all the problems that go with it."


And if we want to compare the two, being a race car driver could be a problem too.

She might worry every time he goes out to do his thing, that something bad might happen to him.
She could have to deal with the emotional fallout if his latest event didn't go the way he wanted.
She might not be "into it" like he is, and doesn't want to be surrounded by his "hobby" 24/7.
She might feel out of place around the people he hangs out with.
His obsession could be interfering with his being a good partner in the home.
He might be spending all his available time and money on this, leaving family to struggle both emotionally and financially.
She might be worried what others might think. "he's such a LOSER. Why do you put up with that?"
etc.
etc.

Sorry - feeling the negative vibes today, I guess.

I am reminded of my real life conversation with my psychologist. Finally, after a number of what I am sure were frustratingly unproductive sessions from her perspective, she looked me directly in the eye and said, ‘we have talked enough about your ex wife. Now lets talk about you’. I knew it was going to have to happen, and I finally blurted out that I was a cross dresser. Her response was, ‘its not a crime, you know’.

Until that moment, I didn’t realize that cross dressing was not the problem. The problem, in part, was how I viewed myself/judged myself for being a cross dresser.

I don't think that using a race car driver is a good analogy.

What about if the counterpoint was not a race car driver, but was into gambling, drinking, using drugs or other addictive behaviors that are not considered socially acceptable? What about overeating or just being lazy? What about more socially acceptable hobbies like golfing.

That's kind of the place I came to when I finally accepted myself and knew I had to be true to me and honest with my wife.

I've said somewhat the same thing in many posts. Of course, in this example it is obviously couple's therapy. A guy wearing women's clothing in itself is only a statement of fact. Maybe, the guy does have self image issues and behavior that conflicts with his wife's expectations. A wife, perhaps, cannot deal with his cross dressing; in part or in its entirety.

If a man comes to fully accept the fact he likes or needs to wear women's clothing, then he has to deal with how those around him deal with him. Societal norms and expectations come into play. To go outside those expectations can cause conflict with any number of people. A husband has to deal with his cross dressing as it relates to interacting with those around him. What's the usual results; loss of family and friends, wife, jobs, social status, numerous consequences. A wife can fully accept her husband is a cross dresser; "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" to full participation and acceptance; however, she also has to deal with the same issues her husband has to deal with. "She's married to a cross dresser. Why doesn't she divorce him? What's the matter with her?"

The number of "Yes, but ..." responses is not unexpected. Too many people have chosen to ignore what you are trying to say, Julia. Whether this is out of ignorance or fear, I cannot tell.

I can see the essential similarities between the two (crossdressing and racing driving) in the analogy. I think you have a good therapist.

if my wife decided to present as a man with facial hair and fake bits, our relationship would be in jeopardy. we might stay together bc of kids but it wouldn't be the same.

just my prefernce. many wives feel the same way. you know the if a wanted to be with a man i would have.

thats more than how some define crossdressing, but that would be the end of some things.

i don't present as a woman i am one of those fetish dressers who are excited about it, if you know what i mean.

I live in western Canada, I see many different kinds of cowboys. Some are posers, and some are genuine. Then there are the ones who like to dress up as cowboys on the weekends, go to the bar, a rodeo, or they just like to dress that way on the weekends. Maybe it makes them feel good about themselves. When it comes to CD'ing, I'm not a poser, I don't in my wildest imagination think that I could ever pass, so I don't try. I'm not a genuine girl, or TG either, and don't want to be! Yet, I like to dress up in the women's apparel. Why, because I feel comfortable and I feel good about myself while I'm dressed. Is it who I am, I have come to accept it, and I now live at peace with myself.

The only difference between Gillian Gigs and myself in this regard is I live in the southeastern U. S. Other than that, her post reflects my situation 100%. For living around 2,000 miles apart (appx, 3,220 km for her), we have something very much in common with one another.

Having done a little racing in my youth I rather like the racing driver analagy. A good friend of mine spent far too much on his cars and when his race car was totalled on the back of his trailer, by a drvver ending up on top of it at the lights. Nearly cost him his marriage. Heck my Mrs gets off cheap with what I spend on girl power.

That the thing with how my life goes now, crossdressing is not the problem spending too much time and money doing it was! Now I think more about getting the regular stuff done before playing the women?s role!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by DianeT

I get where this is aiming at, but when you take the sexual and gender identity dimension out of the equation by choosing the example of a race car driver, you are ignoring major issues that are specific to crossdressing (or at least to some crossdressers). So the reasoning is flawed from the start for many of us.
Also, referring to the practice of race car driving as something defining the identity of a human being is an assumption that needs some evidence first. And so does crossdressing. As a crossdresser I don't feel like the dressing is defining me. At least no more than my love of music or any other thing I like to do. I know, I can't quit dressing. But I can't quit listening or making music either.

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First of all, let's leave "sex" out of this discussion, which IS about gender identity. The "race car driver" example is still fair game, unless one is hung up about stereotypical gender roles. The example crossdresser is a crossdresser, so the counsellor's first question is perfectly valid. Perhaps the more precise question to ask next is, "And how is that a problem?"

Kelly, the sexual dimension of crossdressing is everywhere in these forums so you can't just dismiss it because it doesn't fit your line of reasoning. For some of the members, it even constitutes the main reason for dressing. So, no, the race driver comparison isn't fair game. It's not even close.
Meanwhile, even if sex wasn't involved and the case was only about gender identity (I am a crossdresser and it's not just about gender identity), I still don't see how dressing equals gender identity. It may be about it. It may not. Being excited to dress as a girl doesn't necessarily mean I want to be one. I do, and yet I don't.
The sexual and gender identity aspects of crossdressing are major issues for wives, and this story is trying to appeal to wives. If you ignore these issues, I am afraid that you won't convince many.

As your hypothetical situation has to do with couples counseling. You're not specific at all on this point but you have a couple in front of a counselor.

So bottom line what one does reflects on the other. So it really depends on the couple, the person, the individual, as they're in front of a counselor there must be some kind of problem.

As this is a couple you cannot take sexuality out of this equation.

So commonly here, the obvious problem is one partner did not sign up for this. However you want to say it.

Yes she might very well have a problem with a race car driver. It's a very dangerous profession.

So the problem could very well be she just doesn't want to have relations with someone who is a crossdresser. So unknowing to her she marries one and then finds out later. There's your problem.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

I am reminded of my real life conversation with my psychologist. Finally, after a number of what I am sure were frustratingly unproductive sessions from her perspective, she looked me directly in the eye and said, ‘we have talked enough about your ex wife. Now lets talk about you’. I knew it was going to have to happen, and I finally blurted out that I was a cross dresser. Her response was, ‘its not a crime, you know’.

Until that moment, I didn’t realize that cross dressing was not the problem. The problem, in part, was how I viewed myself/judged myself for being a cross dresser.

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Thank you for posting this.

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Originally Posted by Gillian Gigs

I live in western Canada, I see many different kinds of cowboys. Some are posers, and some are genuine. Then there are the ones who like to dress up as cowboys on the weekends, go to the bar, a rodeo, or they just like to dress that way on the weekends. Maybe it makes them feel good about themselves. When it comes to CD'ing, I'm not a poser, I don't in my wildest imagination think that I could ever pass, so I don't try. I'm not a genuine girl, or TG either, and don't want to be! Yet, I like to dress up in the women's apparel. Why, because I feel comfortable and I feel good about myself while I'm dressed. Is it who I am, I have come to accept it, and I now live at peace with myself.

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I hope to one day accept myself for who/what I am ; a decent human being.