How do you know if you are transgendered or just CD?

How do you know whether you are "transgendered" or just a crossdresser? This isn't the usual question about how do you know whether you are "transsexual". I do not feel like "I should have been a woman", and I am not sexually attracted to men. But that's defining me by what I am not, and there is a lot of ground between "being a male who likes to dress in womens' clothes" and "being a genetic male who would be better off as a female". I've been thinking of myself as somewhere in the middle, but how do I know?

Where I stand:

- a genetic male

- who did not "grow up in the wrong body"

- who does not hate his male organs or their associated sensations

- who likes wearing womens' clothes

- who did some minor dressing experimentation when young (just one variety amongst other experimentations)

- who has only been cross-dressing for about 4 years... but in retrospect, whom had been "trying things on to see how they look" more and more often for a few years before the idea of actually wearing some of them came to mind

- who has worn panties nearly every day for close to 2 years, and no longer "feels right" in men's underwear... a psychological dependancy?

- who wears womens pants to work the great majority of the time (but who wears men's pants too)

- who often wears subtle female shirts/tops to work, but will wear men's shirts too... especially if the men's shirts are some of the bulkier ones that hide forms well

- who will wear even more "shiny" tops to work, and even what are really blouses: tops that someone could potentially realize are "womens'", and tops which few of the men around would wear -- but nothing that is an outright give-away as "definitely female", always something within the bounds of "he's a guy, so it must be menswear".

- who does sometimes wear a bra at work, having chosen his top/shirt so that the bra won't "show through"

- but who does not worry about bra straps and buckles once the bra is on: a once-over in the mirror at dressing time to be sure that nothing is too obvious, and then don't worry about it

- who does sometimes wear forms at work while working (knowing that he doesn't actively work with people so few people are likely to have a chance of observing them)

- who does not spend all day thinking about how pretty his panties are or how what sexy his clothes must look. At work, he does think about his appearance sometimes, perhaps some concern about having over-done it... and if he is wearing forms then he is more likely to think about appearance and about dressing

- who would seriously consider (e.g., likely would try it and see how it goes) wearing skirts to work some days "as a guy" if somehow the message came down that that would be acceptable to management;

- who would is a little uncertain about whether he would wear a dress at work "as a guy" (at least during the working day) unless for some reason management happened to say they would be happy with it

- who hasn't thought much about presenting as a female (wig and all) at work

- who sometimes wears nail strengthener or clear nail polish, but does not often wear nail polish at work (a light pink is not unknown), and who does not usually wear nail polish even "out" (partly because it is a nuisance to put on)

- who rarely wears makeup of any kind to work (might have chanced light mascera twice or so)

- who usually wears only (hair-concealing) foundation and perhaps a bit of eye-shadow when going out as "mixed-gendered"

- who does not wear a lot of makeup even when fully Dressed

- who doesn't bother to "practice" female things much at all -- doesn't bother to practice makeup, has never bothered to study voice, doesn't pay a lot of attention to walk

- who, in other words, is not even remotely "consumed" by the need to "pass" in the sense of being 90-whatever percent taken as female

- who, even when fully Dressed (full wig, makeup, dress or distinctly femme skirt and top, heels) is often easily recognized by those who have met him before as a male.... or, for that matter, as met while wearing very different female clothes and wig

- who most taxi drivers immediately call "sir" even when fully Dressed... before he has even spoken

- who would prefer to be more regularly thought of as a woman when fully Dressed, and who would prefer to be less easily recognized as his male self when fully Dressed (partly because recognized implies knowledge of original gender), but whom just gets a bit disappointed about it and whom doesn't spend a lot of time dwelling on it

- who not-uncommonly deliberately goes out "gender-bending" when not at work, in the sense of wearing a recognizably female top or blouse, or in the sense of wearing D or G cup forms underneath less-obviously-female clothes (but not "flaunting" the forms), or in the sense of wearing a skirt or a dress out in public with no wig and little or no makeup

- who often shops for female clothes while in drab, and who speaks openly about the clothes being for him in the stores, and who openly tries things in in stores without worrying that other shoppers will notice that he is trying on womens' clothes

- who spends a fair bit of time and research thinking about what size of breasts he would like to have for himself (summary: would very much like "cleavage"; at least C cup provided cleavage could be created without difficulty, but would probably prefer around DD -- and the 40G's look very nice for regular clothes, only looking "too big" with clothes designed to fit closely around the breasts.. and yes, a number of people have said that the 40G's suit him well)

- but whom is presently unsure that he would ever actually do anything to deliberately enlarge his breasts -- not from the standpoint of worry about whether he could "really" deal with the fallout of a male having "breasts": only due to the serious side-effects of all known enlargement methods

- but for whom, the urge towards actual breasts seems to be getting stronger

- and whom in the meantime is developing a urge to openly sometimes wear forms at work "as a guy"

- for whom wearing silicone forms around a D cup "just feels right", feeling like he should have something that shape and weight on his body, and when he is without them for more than a few days, it feels as if "something is missing"

- who, if breast enlargement was gradual, would let the breasts be observed more and more with the "this is how I am" reasoning... but who is not certain how he would handle the situation in case of sudden breast enlargement (e.g., implants)



So, given all of that... how do I tell if I am really transgender, or if I'm really just a cross-dresser with a breast fetish?

I am willing to (and do) go out in public to be seen as a male with female clothing and with the most obvious of the female secondary sexual characteristics. I am increasingly bringing that "closer to home", going in a skirt or dress "as myself" into more places where I am "known"... I can only think of three "regular" places that I have not gone to while visibly gender-bending.

I care a little about what a small number of of the neighbours think -- to stay in "good graces" for one of them, out of friendship for the other. I'm not "out" at work, but I am "out" to the public.

But "clothes do not make the man" (or the woman), and a willingness to be seen in female clothes or a willingness to be seen as if I have "female" breasts doesn't mean that I have a noticeable female gender component. It means I have the appearance of mixing male and female (and to be clear, I enjoy wearing skirts even as a guy)... but what kinds of things should I be looking at in my personality to determine whether I am truly a mix of genders in personality?

Is the difference between "crossdresser" and "transgender" as simple as "if you seriously consider body modifications beyond hair removal, then you have gone beyond cross-dressing to transgender or transsexual" ?


The imputous to this questions is that I started thinking about telling my mother that I consider myself to be transgender -- so I had to starting thinking of answers to the obvious question "Well, what does that mean for you?" And I realized that all I really knew for sure about my transgender nature was the clothes, the willingness to be perceived as mixed gender, and the distinct desire for breast enlargement.


For what it is worth, the COG-whatever pseudo-science test rates me as "androgeneous" (towards the male side) and claims that I would likely suffer if I were forced to polarize towards to side or the other. Which summary does agree with how I feel. I don't feel especially that I am a woman, but I also think it is "too late to put the genie back in the bottle" and go back to being "just a male".

I could imagine that at some point, after retirement maybe, or perhaps on a longer vacation, I might experiment with presenting as female "full time" for a period and see how I like that, but I do not have any inclination towards SRS. I do not rule out hormones... but definitely not until I've given up on the possibility of becoming a father!

You sound to me like a very androgynous person. That you're happy with your body as-is, but you'd like societal permission to dress both masculine and feminine. You probably fall somewhere in the middle of gender identities.

Technically, being androgynous does fall under the transgender umbrella. But it's not something you're required to embrace as an identity unless you really want to. It sounds to me like you're fairly stable in your current identity of a male-bodied person who likes to dress feminine sometimes. That's perfectly legitimate, and you don't need further labels to define yourself.

Sexuality -- preferring male vs female partners -- is totally irrelevant and unrelated to transsexuality. Personally, I think I am rather fluid in that regard, though I tend to lean towards heterosexuality.

What I wear is totally irrelevant to my transsexuality. Whether I dress up or dress down, I am still who I am, though I honestly don't own any male clothing.

I hate my penis -- it is a growth that I neither asked for nor intend to keep as mine.

It is more important to me that I have the freedom to be me, rather than how passable I am. Saying that, I still do what I can to look my best, the measures taken being totally dependent on my mood, what and where I am going, etc. on any particular day.

That is me -- a transsexual.

Tess-Leigh
This is educated guessing on my part, but this seems like an escalating obcession with "the taboo", taking chances---and having it re-enforced by your sexual response. An "extra "high" effect also is achieved by taking related risks and "getting away with it".

You feel that you have to "ratchet it up" as time goes on--either to maintian the same level of 'high" ("been there, done that") or an urge for a greater level of "the feeling" associated with your CD activities.

This MAY have arisen from the DISCOVERY of the "pleasant effects" of some CD aspects some time back and the desire to re-experience them---and I seem to detect a trace of some personal "self destructive" tendancies there too.

No , I do NOT think that this is Transsexualisim/Transgenderisim, but crossing such "brain boundaries" related to the stabilization and preservation of 'personal identity' has been known to create an intense 'HIGH" effect--often close to SEX itself. Something akin to "the thrill of battle (combat) and "being shot at to no effect".

Many of us become CDers via inadvertent "Discovery" of this alone in association with a CD incident in our early teens, and continue to CD for the "high" (although we really dont know the WHY behind the high, till much later on after the habbit is established.)

This "discovery" can happen later in life too. Its not really a teen sexual thing, but rather a natural result of crossing an internal Brain "taboo", that generates the high. Some, like you, become More and more "daring" ---untill something "bad" socially , happens or you do something REALLY stupid and embarrasing(eg. you DONT get away with it) and the luster is taken off of things for a while.

I have some experience with the mechanisim, so I beleive I have a bit of a handle on things, from my end. One thing that helps is instead of partial CD, is to GO "whole hog" a couple of times ---All the makeup, clothing, wigs nails and accesories.---with nothing MORE to advance to, it Might take the "charge out of the system. I have been a lot "calmer" myself lately and feel the CD need only if I discoer something NEW I havent tried yet---Say false eyelashes, a new makeup trick, etc.

There is, of course, an acid test- go on an anti-androgen (preferably under medical supervision) just long enough to disable your male sexual function. You will recover your function when you go off it, if you choose, but it will become clear if this is a fetish or a true Trans situation.

I think the real key to figuring out where we each belong in the vast spectrum called transgender, has to be taking the time to sit down and listen to ourselves. All of the answers we will ever seek in life are truly within each and every one of us.

I knew when...

I've known all my life ofcourse, however I think there is one moment for all of us when the truth of it all hits us like a ton of bricks on the top of the head... I was sitting alone one night at home, reading a copy of one of the scandal rags like the Star or Enquirer, when I came across an article about a TS who had seem to have acquired someone to pay for her surgery. Sugar daddy or whatever, doesn't matter... Something inside me suddenly spoke up and said "I wish I could do that...", and at that moment my conscious self just happened to be listening. It was scary, because setting my foot on such a path meant a whole lot of hardship, pain, lonliness etc... Over the next week or so, I had to figure out just how serious I was about it and whether or not I had the guts to actually set my foot on the path. Like everything else it started with baby steps, but quickly turned into a run. About six months after the ton of bricks, I had transitioned living full time complete with name legally changed. I may look back from where Iam now, but would not change my course.

The only help any one of us can give you, is to tell you to seek a therapist to help you take a look at yourself. That and to tell you to look deep inside and answer that question for yourself. Be prepared to take a good hard look and really listen to your feelings, your inner voice... You can compare yourself to the experiences of the rest of us all day long, but it doesn't answer the question of what you are.:2c:

I am by no means a licensed or trained professional on the matter, but to me, you sound like a CD b/c most of the things you listed pertained to your outward appearance (i.e. clothing). I thought at first I was a CD, but contrary to you, the feminine/womanly feelings I have are from within. I described everything with "I feel" instead of "I wear" or "I look". So, to me, it appears to me that you're a CD who perhaps wants to perfect her look. Just my :2c:! G'luck

I also don't see anything to suggest you're transsexual, but only you can answer that question. The clothes mean nothing to us, it's all about feelings, and we don't want anything to do with the wrong gender we got stuck with.

Karen Starlene :star:

For me, I have never needed to dress up in order to have feminine feelings. I mean I could be nakey and still feel feminine. I don't need to put on a wig and lots of makeup and ****ty heels and then go out in public.

I wear in public girls clothes that I can get away with and that includes girlie tank tops, short shorts and flip flops -- sort of what regular guys wear, but only the female version.

People can see my shaved legs and probably are saying under their breath, look at that sissy faggot, but so what, I'm just being me. I am a sissy girl so I am just being me.

So if being a crossdresser means wigs and dresses, I don't do that a lot. I do it and take some pictures sometimes, but I don't go out in public that way.

Like I said, I can feel that I should have been a girl no matter what I am wearing.

Yeah hunny, it doesn't seem transsexual to me. Your symptoms seem more CD or maybe TV.

Like the lady mentioned about, she thought you was trying to get away with stuff in order to receive some sort of thrill from it.


And yes the Spironolactone will help tell the truth when your libido subsides and your feelings will be left.

Its not the felling to just wear female clothes: Its what you fell in side. My self, its all the things only a female would fell, for me its so hard to explan I just know that the fellings I have are real to me. Since my male hormons have slowed down in my older age, my breast have devloped to a C cup and my doctor say its not old man fat. (am not that old) I"ll go into it at more at a later date. Girls, just try to listen to you fellings.

Your a CD, the one line about only dressing for a few years gave you away. I cannot stop thinking about how I am presenting and interacting as a woman on a daily basis. Ive been FT for 4 months. and my obsession with articles of clothing has lifted, I now actually buy clothes that fit and are age specific. I am trying to blend as well as I can. I work very hard at being a ally and coworker with women, men are inconsequintial to me any more. So you tell me what am I?

Marina Twelve
But is the taboo crossing high, even if caught up in the whole thing, representative of the main line of the drive, (where it would be a defining characteristic), or just a side-effect? It may be a powerful enough side-effect to act like an addiction, but it may not be what the whole thing is about. Taboos may act as guards against identity drift, but the identity may want to drift for other reasons.
One spirit, (Seth of the Jane Roberts books), felt that the gender identities so stereotyped in the 1950's, are just uncomfortable because they do not fit anyone perfectly, and with some people the fit is less comfortable than with others. So one gets pain which it is natural to seek to avoid.
Then there is the neurotic's intolerance and obsession with psychic pain. Kafka, a neurotic indeed, said people strain against their bonds or 'wall(s)' naturally and if they go far enough, even self-destructively perhaps along with destroying the bonds. (in Der Maur).
Why do I dress? Not just because it has become a habit, or addiction to a high for there was a time before it became a habit, and there must have been a reason then. I think it might be related to the myth that originally people had both male and female sides, and so were content in themselves. Or just that females around me modeled a sort of object choice that was alluring to try. (Object choice meaning the emotional values seemingly inherent in female clothing, or projected into them, according to Freud.)
What do you think about these ideas?

I understand your questions because at the age of 8, I use to pray to wake up as a girl. Then as a teenager and young adult, the crossdressing had a high and a sexual component associated with it. Now at the age of 48, everything seems to be changing. Crossdressing is not done for the high but to feel more like I wish I could be.

I have a lot of conflict at the moment because I feel like a man and woman both inside. I feel the most at peace when presenting and conducting myself like a woman. So there is my rub. So as part of my knowledge gathering exercise, I am presenting almost full time as a woman. I am not taking hormones, but I am doing things to help with my appearance (Laser Hair Removal). Regardless of my final decision, I want to be able to go out of the house and present as a woman to the best of my ability.

I had a friend of mine explain balance in his life to me in such a way that I wanted to find the balance in my life. Here is what he said: "It has certainly helped when I am dressed as I recognize that I am the same person no matter how I present myself. I don't "cower" as some of our crossdressing sisters do when out and about. I don't hide away. Instead, I live my life and behave as I would no matter what clothes I have on." That is where I want to be in my life. I am trying to figure out who I am in my life regardless of what clothes I have on.

I hope this helps you find your path. I think you need to spend time figuring out who you are and why. Then and only then can you answer your question. Good Luck to you.

Well for a start, how do you define transgendered? Some here seem to equate it to transsexual.. :idontknow:

But I don't think any of us can tell you what you are, as some here seem to be doing - and you haven't explained why a label would matter to you?

FWIW, I don't believe you can look inside yourself and know, straightaway - you have to let yourself have time to strip away the layers you have buried your feelings under. And, IME, doing tells you far more about yourself than just introspection..

Hmmm. Well, I can make an argument several ways for you. Which way do you want to go?

Since no one really knows what makes any of us tick, (i.e. until someone labels some genes we have that others don't) it's all a bunch of guesswork, and it amounts to little more than attempts to create labels that convey useful generalizations so we can talk about each other.

So where you think you fit in so we can talk about you is what probably matters most. I'm tempted to think you are a TS in denial - but I always project too much of my own issues into my thinking about others. :heehee:

hugs,
'lissa

hi... being both male & female ... well i am yet i knew i was female inside. oh very strong . just could not do any thing about it .. for 50 years . then 11 years ago i knew i would live the rest of my life as me a women . yet still being male . i was given the help i needed to be able to do that. yes ... s r s & b a so the real me is that ...other women ... at 61 ...oh yea ... so some of us are both m & f . how far we go is up to us . each one of us will find our true selfs it takes time. for me a long time yet still knowing at age 10 ... of cause there is a lot more than what i have said here ....dont try & push it one way or the other just let the real you come out now ill say it this way i am a transfemale ,,, a women that is me .....just because i dont have a womb does not say i am not a women . just because i was not born with one does that mean i can not be that women . no . when you know inside who you are . then . thats who you are...not every one has a perfect body i dont ,,, so what . that does not stop me from being who i am ..... ...noeleena ...

Thanks, everyone, for the resurgence of interest in my question! I sort of burnt out a bit just in the asking of it; and I've been burning myself out in other ways in the volunteer technical support that I do (so many people needing help... so many people asking the wrong questions, who have to be educated as to why their question was wrong and what they need to examine in order to get to a right question...)

I need to start getting ready for work in a few minutes (should have started already :straightface: ) so I'll just add something quick here:

Especially in the earlier responses, a number of people were implicitly making a dichotomy, a supposition that a male who wears womens' clothes is either cross-dresser or transsexual, with no possibility between the two, and no other choice; and thus that if I am not transsexual then (by the law of the excluded middle), I must be a cross-dresser. But the core parts of my question are about the other possibilities, the "two-spirited", the "bi-gendered", the androgyne, and so on: if a person suspects (or believes) that they might incorporate significant aspects of both male and female, then how to know?

(Sorry, additional response will have to wait for later.)

Ah yes, the Law of the Excluded Middle. I have too much middle myself, and would like to exclude it from getting in the way of getting close, but have yet to find a good enough girdle.
More seriously, a logical analysis of the proposed definitions of transgendered and cross dresser would be called for. I always thought transgendered was a nice euphemism which embraced a number of gender peculiarities or particularities, and it has been news to me that it has a meaning that obeys the law of the excluded middle, as specified above. In other words, it always seemed to me like a generalization, a category that embraced serious cross-dressing, bigendered feelings/self-perception and living in the opposite gender to which you are born, without the aid of sexual reassignment surgery, and probably more. I hate seeing these terms turned into pejoratives by one group or another.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tess-leigh

Especially in the earlier responses, a number of people were implicitly making a dichotomy, a supposition that a male who wears womens' clothes is either cross-dresser or transsexual, with no possibility between the two, and no other choice;

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Your definition of "transgender" is quite correct, but since there is such a difference of opinion in this forum about the meaning of the word, it is left to the reader to decide what the author meant. By opening the thread with the sentence "How do you know whether you are "transgendered" or just a crossdresser?" i made the incorrect assumption. I assumed you yourself meant there was a distinct difference.

I apologize for making the error and just ignore my previous reply.

Like the wisest of the other posters, I can not tell you which labels apply to you, or which don't. Indeed, we (this community) are not sure of the precise meaning of some of the labels (like transgendered or transvestite). Before they will stick very well to someone else, there would have to be a consensus of what they mean, wouldn't there?

But what I would share with you is some wise advise I was given when I was new to exploring my own gender questions and I asked similar questions.

First, don't worry about labels at this point. Find out what feels comfortable for you, and what doesn't. Try some different things. Along the way, you'll discover soon enough what best describes you.

Second, don't worry about fitting into neat categories. Be yourself. After all, the question about terminology is whether the terminology describes what you do and feel, not whether you are obeying the terminology.

Third, remember that as you give yourself permission truly to discover who you are, what you feel most comfortable with may change. For example, I went through an androgynous phase many years ago. It was very exciting at the time, and I learned a lot of self-confidence from doing it. But I ended up somewhere else, living fulltime as a woman.

Hope this helps.

Sincerely,
Rikki

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nicki B

But I don't think any of us can tell you what you are, as some here seem to be doing - and you haven't explained why a label would matter to you?

FWIW, I don't believe you can look inside yourself and know, straightaway - you have to let yourself have time to strip away the layers you have buried your feelings under. And, IME, doing tells you far more about yourself than just introspection..

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Agreed, completely. And I repeat Nicki's question: why do you concern yourself over a label? You are who you are.

~~~~Sara Lynn

Knowing you should have a vagina between your legs rather than a penis would I think make you a transexual woman.

Loving dressing as the opposite gender would make you a CDr.

I am not "transgender" , never was, and I feel less and less "transsexual", so leaves just me, Stephanie, a woman, after all it says "sex girl" on my birth certificate, good enough for me.


Stephanie

Well, you are definitely doing a lot of cross-dressing, but it also appears that this activity is not entirely satisfying you and is not your final destination. I wouldn't be too concerned with putting a label on it at this point because you appear to be in a transition or exploratory stage.

What is important is your internal gender identity and whether you are fulfilled by your current efforts. There does not appear to be a clear unequivocal desire or absolute need on your part to totally become a woman and to do everything that it takes to achieve it.

It appears to me that you are probably androgynous, that your internal gender identity is both male and female, and that you express both genders depending on how you feel. And it may be that this is your long-term internal identity.

If so, you should probably not do anything too drastic, because you may not be happy living as, or being, a woman. However, you might try seeing a doctor to get a prescription for Premarin, which is an estrogen. You can try this for about 3 months to see if you like the gradual effects of feminization and some breast development. As a precaution, you could use a sperm bank in the event you ever wanted children.