How do you know if you are transgendered or just CD?

Thank you girls! This is getting deep! The "mechanism" of the discovery exists. Many many people never even approach breaking taboos. Most people. The sexual role definition is an ancient cultural determinent, even if it hasn't been bred into us through selective breeding. Some cultures accept cross-gender behaviors, but they don't produce offspring, hence it's not selected for. But, because of the flexibility of gender-questionable people, they often swing both ways and do breed. But it's gotta be recessive.

WHEN did I realize that my behavior was diametrically opposed to cultural norms? Very very early. My earliest memory is when I was six, wearing my mother's bra. I knew not to tell anyone.

Tess-Leigh,
I don't know what you are. How about "fem-boy?"

I love these discussions.

I don't have much of a voice here (Call me nub) but I'll throw in my 2 cents.

I know who I am because I've always felt that way. Dressing has never given me any sexual satisfaction, only self fulfillment. I have a friend who was going to go through this with me and actually started with me. But after a while of talking about it they decided they weren't a trans..they were happy with themselves and with their CDing. In the end its like the old disney saying. Follow your heart.

Clothes have always been very important to me, dressing gives that frisson(?) the confirmation-it completes the picture. It's also the transgression thing. I remember when I was young. I knew my mother and my neighbors wouldn't what was in my mind, but she could find a bra under my bed, and she once did. I was exhilarated by the danger, and proud of my audacity. Now, decades later, I have to be in a dress whenever I can. I even keep a bikini on the boat. The fetish aspect is the sexual side. I'll do stuff to a guy in drag that I'll never do just naked.
Morgan

I think there can be a lot of similarities between being cd and ts certainly in the early days, not all know from an early age, I didn't, and I have always felt the need to dress from an early age so the clothes for me at least did come into it and still do. I've thought I might be TS since my late teens but always dismissed the idea, after all I am perceived as male by everyone around me and I look male in the mirror.

With me the dysphoria just seemed to get stronger over the years, then I was seriously confused about my gender. As soon as I stepped out the door en femme I very quickly realised that this is the real me, who has just been hiding away all these years behind a mask of masculinity. Going out presenting as a women and being treated as a women by others just very quickly became normality to me, plus I have always envied girls and women all my life, wished I could look like them, have a body like theirs ect, its how you feel about yourself inside and out, only you can know whether you are ts or cd, nobody else can give you that answer.

i've struggled alot with the question you pose tess...

i crossdressed my whole life...since i was 7...i get a great sexual charge out of it...

i think priss said she had a revelation...i had the exact same revelation looking at ffs pictures on line...i wish i was her..i wish i could do that...!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uh...hint to myself!!! :doh:..then i started considering my dressing...i was ALWAYS dressed head to toe...i was ALWAYS wanting to go out, I was ALWAYS wanting to meet folks dressed...I NEVER stopped thinking about it... hint number 2...

the thing was that i was getting ALL my sexual kicks out of this so i must be a dresser....then i started to meet real ts/tg/cd/tv folks (aside...the labels all suck...we are all unique and special)...meeting ts women was hint number 3 and finally i started HRT with a great therapist...

within days of start of HRT i felt GREAT!!!! i had this internal sensation that I can only describe as feeling "real"....i teeny man boobs (always had'em)..but now they were my "girls" and i felt pride and an intense satisfying wholeness (i know -words are tuff to describe these feelings..but i bet many of you know eggsactly:heehee: what i'm talking about)...now i'm past hints and on to getting hit over the head lessons...

so here i sit...quit my job, on HRT since july...meeting ffs surgeons, ....the thoughts are still constant...there is some sexual feelings about it but it bugs me more than anything

that's why the smartest tg folks i know call it a journey....just remember its your journey and try to be honest with yourself and it should work out for the best

The realization for me was that I thought for many years that I was a CD even though I had a strong compulsion to dress like a woman. A friend of mine told me a number of years ago that I was just kidding myself. I was a transgender without a doubt.
The differerence that I can see is that I feel and want to act and be a woman. Clothes are not the main thing that drive me. They are only part of the entire package. I am totally turned on in my brain when I am accepted as a woman. I love other women to accept me as one of them. I love the glances and the gentle treatment by men. I love feeling like the woman when I talk to a man. I am happy being a gal with even just a pair of jeans and a top. It is a feeling that I cannot avoid and I know that i am just not like a man or even crossdressers.

I'm still undecided.

When I was little, I thought I was a girl. When a teen, I was sure I wanted to be a girl. Then I started becoming a man - KWIM - and discovered sex (late starter - 17). Then I focussed on being the man in relationships and just CD'd off and on for 30 years. Just recently I was told to stop being dishonest with myself and face up to who I really am.

I know when I was with a woman, I couldn't perform unless I switched places mentally. I always prided myself on being able to satisfy my partners. This kept me going for ages and then even that didn't work. Who was I kidding. Now, I cannot see myself with a woman because now I realise I get "jealous" and that is not fair on either of us.

So, I have kept going by being "genderless" or mentally a hermaphrodite or "gender blended", whatever.

Now, I am back to unsure. I want to go that next step, but I can't bring myself to take it. So, in order to take the "journey" one has to be moving forward and I seem to be in a place overshadowed by inertia.

Elsewhere there was a thread made about the price of Crossdressing - what is the price for personal fulfilment/self discovery????? I know what prices I have paid so far, how much more?

I really admire the peope who have taken the journey for their courage and conviction. Am I like that?

Wait and see........:straightface:

:hugs:Portia

Oh, Portia,
I could have written your post. I am only my best self when being a woman. I did drag in a very open environment for 10 years, so got my need for public acceptance exercized. I started hormones, and like another poster here, felt normal for the first time in my life.
I am not definitely on the way to surgery. I'm very in between. I can still easily hide my slight development, and look better in drab than drag, although Im still skinny.
You don't have to decide what you are. Follow your need.

dear tess,

i have read the entirety of the post and my eyes are about to pop out of my eye sockets.

but besides that, i believe you are just a person! for sure, we don't fit normal conventions, and being label-less is difficult not only in terms of convenience, but psychologically...in my mind, i always ask, "i know i'm me, but WHAT am i?"

i am like you in that i am not exactly sure where i fall, at all. i know the most of my situation, and if i can't answer who i am, then nobody can. even if there were a million different labels for everyone who falls between cd and transgendered, you STILL might not fit!

but i know what you're trying to get at. could you be bi-gendered, or whatever, some convenient label, and could someone identify that? maybe. but as important as that seems to you right now, it isn't. walk a new path, take a different step than what's already prescribed. it's scary, but it's alright.

you can do it, and i'll be right there with you.

I wear feminine items at work, wear makeup and jewelry, no wigs or forms yet. I wear feminine pants some days and other day's wear mens pants. The makeup and the jewelry I've been wearing for the last several months. I also go out dressed to shop from time to time.

I've been questioning what I am, whether I'm a crossdresser or Transsexual. I've crossdressed for over 45 years but in the last 2yrs the desire to be dressed is stronger and getting stronger. Thru my life didn't think too much whether I was more female or Male, but in the last several years I've come to the realization that I am more feminine than male.. Recently my HR manager approached me and asked if I'm transitioning, that the company can provide help and support in my transitioning ( read my post about HR conversation).

The question that I would like to ask, is it possible that on this journey we go thru, is it possible that we can be in denial of being, a transsexual. If someone else thinks we are transitioning and ask's that question of us, is it possible they see the change in me, more clearly than I see the change in myself? This event last week has clearly gotten me into thinking I am more transsexual than Crossdresser. Now I am exploring where I go from here and how far. As soon as I have better finances I plan on seeking some counseling to help me figure things out.

Tess, my advice is that you are much like me, a TS in denial and to seek out some good gender counseling to sort out the feelings and to explore future paths etc.. Good luck in your journey and if you'd like to talk PM me. :battingeyelashes:

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Originally Posted by PortiaHoney

I'm still undecided.

When I was little, I thought I was a girl. When a teen, I was sure I wanted to be a girl. Then I started becoming a man - KWIM - and discovered sex (late starter - 17). Then I focussed on being the man in relationships and just CD'd off and on for 30 years. Just recently I was told to stop being dishonest with myself and face up to who I really am.

I know when I was with a woman, I couldn't perform unless I switched places mentally. I always prided myself on being able to satisfy my partners. This kept me going for ages and then even that didn't work. Who was I kidding. Now, I cannot see myself with a woman because now I realise I get "jealous" and that is not fair on either of us.

So, I have kept going by being "genderless" or mentally a hermaphrodite or "gender blended", whatever.

Now, I am back to unsure. I want to go that next step, but I can't bring myself to take it. So, in order to take the "journey" one has to be moving forward and I seem to be in a place overshadowed by inertia.

Elsewhere there was a thread made about the price of Crossdressing - what is the price for personal fulfilment/self discovery????? I know what prices I have paid so far, how much more?

I really admire the peope who have taken the journey for their courage and conviction. Am I like that?

Wait and see........:straightface:

:hugs:Portia

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I feel almost exactly the same especially in regards to my relations with women. I could go forever which is almost always interpreted as a good thing until they realize that they were not 'doing it' for me. I was jealous too and it is unfair I guess. The last relationship ended for pretty much this reason. That was when I realized that this is not going away and I can't hide from it forever. Not sure where it will go, but down the rabbit hole I go. Shoulda taken the blue pill I guess :)

As far as being CD or TG or TS or whatever, who knows. I hate labels, but I know we all need to be able to self describe at some points in our lives. We are just too damned complicated to put into category A or category B imho.

Hang in there. Maybe we will all find what we are looking for if we look hard enough.
Hugz,
Jenny

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Originally Posted by micheletv

i've struggled alot with the question you pose tess...

i crossdressed my whole life...since i was 7...i get a great sexual charge out of it...

i think priss said she had a revelation...i had the exact same revelation looking at ffs pictures on line...i wish i was her..i wish i could do that...!!!!!!!!!!!!!! uh...hint to myself!!! :doh:..then i started considering my dressing...i was ALWAYS dressed head to toe...i was ALWAYS wanting to go out, I was ALWAYS wanting to meet folks dressed...I NEVER stopped thinking about it... hint number 2...

the thing was that i was getting ALL my sexual kicks out of this so i must be a dresser....then i started to meet real ts/tg/cd/tv folks (aside...the labels all suck...we are all unique and special)...meeting ts women was hint number 3 and finally i started HRT with a great therapist...

within days of start of HRT i felt GREAT!!!! i had this internal sensation that I can only describe as feeling "real"....i teeny man boobs (always had'em)..but now they were my "girls" and i felt pride and an intense satisfying wholeness (i know -words are tuff to describe these feelings..but i bet many of you know eggsactly:heehee: what i'm talking about)...now i'm past hints and on to getting hit over the head lessons...

so here i sit...quit my job, on HRT since july...meeting ffs surgeons, ....the thoughts are still constant...there is some sexual feelings about it but it bugs me more than anything

that's why the smartest tg folks i know call it a journey....just remember its your journey and try to be honest with yourself and it should work out for the best

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This is Late Onset Transexualism, and it's really common. I should know :) In my case, I actually buried my ts-ness with cding, for a long, long time. Eveyone does it for different reasons, socialization, embarrassment, fear are some of the reasons. Some get themselves into situations they would feel wrong walking away from(marriage, kids, certain careers). Heck, I knew. I knew at 4. you dont cry yourself to sleep wishing you were a girl if everything is great. But I soon discovered dressing. To a 5 year old, that was it. that was the cure I needed. Yeah, you find out pretty darn early that it's not socially acceptable, and you assume that even those who love you the most would never understand. That's ok. I got good at being sneaky. And it worked. So I learned to be a boy to the world, and pretended to be a girl, inside. It worked, because life was simple. I didnt even know what a freaking TS was, and wouldn't find out for a long time. What did I know? I was 5, and it was 1964. Alot of you know the rest of the story. cding made me feel good, even as I proved to the world I was a guy, became an above-average athlete, and learned how to be one of the guys, dated girls, Tried so hard to be normal it hurt. It hurt so much, It was easier to ignore. Even as life gets more and more complex, most of us can learn how to bury stuff that's hard. Unfortunately, it comes out in other, bad ways. Relationships ruined. Sabotaging any success you may have a shot at. Irresponsibility. Risky behavior. Substance abuse. Oh, and the shame and embarrassment at being a guy who likes to crossdress...

....I'm not gonna hijack, sorry. things are turning out really well, albeit a bit late. what am I? I'm a woman. It doesnt matter what I look like, or what I wear. Although presenting as an average looking female makes life a whole lot easier. Tess, I would say you aren't a Transexual. I'm not a proffesional, but that's just my take. Counseling would probably help you alot, to find a balance in your gender struggles. But I think you have shot at things being just fine for you. That you're pretty thoughtful about it all doesn't hurt, either.

The spectrum is pretty wide. Being Transexual is tough, hard work. I embrace it now, but that took a long time. The other forms of GID aren't a walk in the park, either. How can you know? Ask yourself. Don't Bullsh*t yourself. And get help with it. It does work.

Hugs,

Melissa:)

I struggle with that, too, but that is where the "trans" in transgendered comes for me!

First off, I would like to thank all of those who have responded and kept this thread alive even thought I haven't contributed much to it myself after my initial burst.

I have continued my wayward ways of going to work in "stealth" clothes. I'm still never especially obvious about it, though there are a couple of tops that I wear from time to time that would be slightly difficult to explain due to their small decorative cuts or small embroidery, but which are otherwise quite moderate... e.g., I could probably say, "Oh this? I just thought it looked nice," and be safe enough. But I'm possibly fooling myself more than anyone else: although each individual top might be "close enough", probably the overall trend of them has been enough that people have gotten the idea that There Is Something A Little Odd Going On There. (Sound familiar, Kimberly? :heehee:)

I do still wear "guy" shirts a couple of times a week, especially if I'm feeling a bit low or stressed for some reason -- not in the sense of my feeling comforted by the guy shirts, but (A) I'm not always feeling pretty or outgoing or Tess-y; and (B) if I'm stressed about something (a home situation or a work situation) then removing the question of whether today will be the day that my clothes give me away makes for one less straw on my camel-back.

I've been noticing more that I have become "habituated" to female clothes as "just the clothes I wear", and it is taking more to make me feel like I am cross-dressing. Like wearing a dress, or an obviously feminine skirt, not just a plain solid (but nicely designed) long skirt. I'm sure people could come up with a number of possible explanations for this.

For example, if I wear a long swishy grey skirt "around" (e.g., in the malls, or grocery shopping, or on the bus) several times and no-one seems to care, then empirically I have determined that it is acceptable-enough for a guy to wear such skirts in those situations. So if I go for more, is it because (A) at some level what I really want is to be able to go even further; or (B) because at some level I'm trying to provoke a reaction from people (ala early punk); or (C) because because at some level for some reason or other, I want people to be negative towards me; or (D) that, like a junkie, as I go, I need "stronger doses" to get the same feeling; or (E) that for some reason, I'm still "wanting to be caught" (that is, for my dressing to become public knowledge rather than an open secret)... and if so, then would that desire be there in order that I could be "publicly known" as Tess (and so could dress outside of work on any occasion I felt like), or would that desire to "be caught" be there so that I could openly dress at work?

I am, by the way, becoming more convinced that if for some reason Human Resources told me that it would be acceptable for me to wear a skirt to work, that I would do so. It would depend, of course, on how it was phrased: if it was phrased as "Under the policies, we can't stop you", then I don't know what I would do -- but if it was phrased as something like, "Yes, that is squarely within the diversity policies, and if it is something you want to do, then you would definitely have our backing"... then it would be a decided temptation. And no, I don't think of wearing a skirt to work as something that would be a "thrill", and I absolutely do not imagine standing in the hall and twirling around and saying "Look how beautiful I am!" -- it's just that somehow wearing a moderate skirt feels right to me.

Just after New Years, I got to spend a few days of "24/7", including a shopping trip out to a mall in which I dressed deliberately "sexy". Wigs still feel a little unnatural to me (possibly I should be using a wig that is slightly larger for one thing), but it was a lot of fun to go around as "a woman" for a few days. But I would not say that I had the feeling that I should be "a woman" all of the time. I would not mind :heehee: if it was easier for me to become a convincing female -- I would prefer to at least regularly pass the Cab Driver Test, which I fail nearly all of the time ("Sir" :Angry3:).

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Originally Posted by Melissa A.

Tess, I would say you aren't a Transexual. I'm not a proffesional, but that's just my take.

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I really don't know what I am. I don't feel like I am "really a woman inside". And I don't notice that I am becoming "any less of a man" as I go along; and I don't "hate men" at all, and I've enjoyed my "one eyed monster" and do not wish to be rid of it. But something is pushing me towards the middle ground, pushing me to wear "women's clothes", pushing me to wish I had nice breasts with cleavage (about DD feels right for me, but I'd be thrilled with even a large B if I had cleavage)... something pushed me far enough that I got both of my ears pierced on January 2nd, with me emphasizing to the professional piercer that I wanted the holes positioned so that I could wear feminine earrings (and I went to the piercer completely Dressed to emphasize the context.)

I don't have any goal in any of this... I am adrift as to a purpose to all of this in my life. I don't feel like I am "transsexual" -- but it cannot be denied that I am something different than, or more than, a (typical) male.

Oh my darling Tess,
You are the most precious girl. Girl. I have a trannie friend a lot like you. Now really, if you need to wear a skirt to the mall, then you definately need to wear it all the time. The real question: are you ready to spend an hour on make-up and hair every morning and double your spending on clothes. Double? Quadruple. But if you have to, you have to.
And thank you Melissa. Nice post.
Morgan

Some people are ambivalent, like me. This morning I was fed up with being a girl and dressed like a guy. By early afternoon the clothes were feeling uncomfortable physically, and I went back to being a girl.
As a result, I dress stealth as you call it, or unisex as I call it, (dressed in mainly or all female clothes but not noticeably), anytime I need to go out.
I consider myself bigendered these days.

I have pondered about this myself ever since i can remember (5 years old i think)
I have always gotten on well with other females and understanding them more than other males. From the age of 14 I have always disliked the feel of the male genitals and wished they would go away, but reserve sperm in a bank just incase I would like a family in my new body. After the chop it would be difficult to get any.
I have always wanted to have a new female body.
Currently i feel my inside is a lesbian woman and very feminine. I have been complemented by other Gfemale friends about my views, and statements on how they look. If they look aweful i will tell them.

So I dont know if Im just a CDr or something a bit more.

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Originally Posted by tess-leigh

How do you know whether you are "transgendered" or just a crossdresser? This isn't the usual question about how do you know whether you are "transsexual".

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Um, last time I checked Crossdressers came under the Transgendered Umbrella.

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I do not feel like "I should have been a woman", and I am not sexually attracted to men.

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I missed the page in the manual that said all woman must be attracted to men. My wife isn't attracted to men. I'm not attracted to men.

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But that's defining me by what I am not,

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Occums Razer:

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and there is a lot of ground between "being a male who likes to dress in womens' clothes" and "being a genetic male who would be better off as a female".

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And often a cross over in between.

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Where I stand:

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Ok let me answer them from my perspective.

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- a genetic male

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I'm Intersexed, genetically both. But was brought up convincingly as a male, albeit a very depressed male who felt something was missing or unbalanced. Never realised I was depressed though.

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- who did not "grow up in the wrong body"

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My body was modified at birth. I guess it's wrong. Some TS do feel that, a few don't.

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- who does not hate his male organs or their associated sensations

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Some TS don't hate their male genitals or the sensations. I don't, although as I break down down my barriers from the past, I have having more 'Transsexual Ja Vu'

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- who likes wearing womens' clothes

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Before they were classed as women's clothes they were just clothes people wore!

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- who did some minor dressing experimentation when young (just one variety amongst other experimentations)

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All kids do that. Some have different motivations though. But then my daughter like to dress up like Fairies and Princesses. It doesn't mean they are!

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- who has only been cross-dressing for about 4 years... but in retrospect, whom had been "trying things on to see how they look" more and more often for a few years before the idea of actually wearing some of them came to mind

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Sounds a bit Autogynephillia to me. Borderline Fetish! But then, I make fantasies into film!

I never experienced that 'early' dressing thing, at least I can't uncover a memory yet, but then I only have a total of about 45 minutes of memories prior to age 25.

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- who has worn panties nearly every day for close to 2 years, and no longer "feels right" in men's underwear... a psychological dependancy?

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That is very Transvestite Fetish. I say that because it's a secret inside expression that you are, it seems, by your own words, dependent on and therefore affects the normality of your life.

I have to admit, ladies underwear is far more well manufatured and fitting than lousy mens underwear which are made very generically to 'fit all' - now imagine if bras were made with just one cup size!

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- who wears womens pants to work the great majority of the time (but who wears men's pants too)

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Men's Pants? Pant's were anatomically designed for women! Hello! History lesson! MEN have been cross dressing in womens pants for 230 years!

Women have been cross dressing in mens high heels for 240 years!

Refer to comment above about mens underwear manufacture.

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- who often wears subtle female shirts/tops to work, but will wear men's shirts too... especially if the men's shirts are some of the bulkier ones that hide forms well

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Well reality check here - refer again to comment about mens clothing manufacture. Bulk and baggy is right - and one size fits all - except most.

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- who does sometimes wear a bra at work, having chosen his top/shirt so that the bra won't "show through"

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This could be fetish.

See I don't understand the "secret" side. Mainly cause I just 'switched' over night.

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- who does sometimes wear forms at work while working (knowing that he doesn't actively work with people so few people are likely to have a chance of observing them)

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Sound more and more like a very low grade Transsexual!

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- who does not spend all day thinking about how pretty his panties are or how what sexy his clothes must look. At work, he does think about his appearance sometimes, perhaps some concern about having over-done it... and if he is wearing forms then he is more likely to think about appearance and about dressing

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That's the RISK OF DISCOVERY factor kicking in - the adrenaline rushing all day, the unexpected factor. That's quite fetish really.

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- who would seriously consider (e.g., likely would try it and see how it goes) wearing skirts to work some days "as a guy" if somehow the message came down that that would be acceptable to management;

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That's called Queerf*cked. It's Well defined. Also refered to as Gender Benders.

http://www.tgender.net/taw/tggl/index.html

Might be of use to you.

I have always allowed free expression in the work place. Although there are times when limitations of apply such as special events and exhibitions. But I encourage staff to bring their expression to me far enough in advance to give me an idea on what they want to do. Many usually come up with ray things that are an enhancement to our appearance and attention, so I'm usually very very supportive.

I grimaced when my PA turned up on her first day working with me with Orange Hair. I said nothing for a week. then I asked why. After that, every project she changed her hair colour, quite dramatically sometimes. Even though she quickly become an Executive Producer and a Producer amoungst other things, her uniqueness was very positive for our whole team. We even use to have votes to select the colour and bets to see what colour she'd walk in with.

So why not approach your management and ask - refer to the web link above and, well a Happy Employee is a Productive Employee.

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- who hasn't thought much about presenting as a female (wig and all) at work

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You don't have to. Pixar have 'Eyeshadow Friday' and 'Dress Day' and so on. Staff are encouraged to express everything they can, be they male, female or anything else. There aren't any real rules apparently.

Some cross dress for a laugh, and rightly so, Pixar's teams are exceptional in the world. If their crazyiness and bravado wasn't expressed then their films would be a dull as some of those other studios! Too Adult not enough kid!

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- who sometimes wears nail strengthener or clear nail polish, but does not often wear nail polish at work (a light pink is not unknown), and who does not usually wear nail polish even "out" (partly because it is a nuisance to put on)

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Check out the site link above, go back a menu to the Section on Cross Dressers. Note the attitude about 'hair and nails'

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- who rarely wears makeup of any kind to work (might have chanced light mascera twice or so)

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Many cosmetics companies have badged 'Man' cosmetic now.

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- who does not wear a lot of makeup even when fully Dressed

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Lucky you! I spent 10-30 mins a day doing mine.

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- who doesn't bother to "practice" female things much at all -- doesn't bother to practice makeup, has never bothered to study voice, doesn't pay a lot of attention to walk

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I don't practice at all. I spent 30 years practicing to be male, and not very successfully. Got called Girl a lot. Now they call me a Bloke a lot. Can't win!

But nothing wrong with dressing without the feminist. As someone said at Church yesterday - it's just clothes.

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- who, in other words, is not even remotely "consumed" by the need to "pass" in the sense of being 90-whatever percent taken as female

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Now sounds like high level Cross Dresser, without the Female pyshcology.

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- who most taxi drivers immediately call "sir" even when fully Dressed... before he has even spoken

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But you aren't trying to be a Miss!

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- who would prefer to be more regularly thought of as a woman when fully Dressed, and who would prefer to be less easily recognized as his male self when fully Dressed (partly because recognized implies knowledge of original gender), but whom just gets a bit disappointed about it and whom doesn't spend a lot of time dwelling on it

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But you don't seem to be creating a gender appearance. You seem to be creating a personal comfort.

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- who often shops for female clothes while in drab, and who speaks openly about the clothes being for him in the stores, and who openly tries things in in stores without worrying that other shoppers will notice that he is trying on womens' clothes

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Yup, I did that just before my transition. No one believed me. Then I shocked them! *giggles*

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- who spends a fair bit of time and research thinking about what size of breasts he would like to have for himself

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Stick with the forms. I suspect you would be very disappointed with real breasts or implants.

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- but for whom, the urge towards actual breasts seems to be getting stronger

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They aren't erotic. They aren't going to be Double Gs.

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- for whom wearing silicone forms around a D cup "just feels right", feeling like he should have something that shape and weight on his body, and when he is without them for more than a few days, it feels as if "something is missing"

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See this is falling back into TV Fetishism again.

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- who, if breast enlargement was gradual, would let the breasts be observed more and more with the "this is how I am" reasoning... but who is not certain how he would handle the situation in case of sudden breast enlargement (e.g., implants)

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Again this is TV Fetishism.

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So, given all of that... how do I tell if I am really transgender, or if I'm really just a cross-dresser with a breast fetish?

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Well you are Transgendered simply by the challenge you present to perceived gender norms. What category of TG you are is quite vauge! You appear to intersect a lot of lines!

- Cross Dresser
- Gender bender
- Transvestite Fetishism (affects your normal day to day)
- Even a hint of Transsexualism but not enough to have SRS

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I am willing to (and do) go out in public to be seen as a male with female clothing and with the most obvious of the female

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Nothing wrong with that if you are comfortable.

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It means I have the appearance of mixing male and female (and to be clear, I enjoy wearing skirts even as a guy)...

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It's OK, Men wore tights and skirts for years before Pants were stolen from the women!

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Is the difference between "crossdresser" and "transgender" as simple as "if you seriously consider body modifications beyond hair removal, then you have gone beyond cross-dressing to transgender or transsexual" ?

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Again watch those terms. But some CDs do the whole works, voice, hair, makeup, body hair. But they are just men who like to express their fem peronality. Nothing wring with that, they tend to be more socialable and understanding of TS, unlike TV Fetishism who think that if you dress in women's clothes you want to give every bloke that walks past fellatio.

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The imputous to this questions is that I started thinking about telling my mother that I consider myself to be transgender -- so I had to starting thinking of answers to the obvious question "Well, what does that mean for you?"

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Actually it means all those things you said above. That is WHAT you ARE! Evidently you aren't hiding it.

And interestingly you haven't really mentioned Sexual element, so the TV Fetishism seems to be very selfish based. As I said, just intersecting the lower levels of TV and TS. If that helps you express yourself fully, confidently and happily then, well, so what! Just Do It!

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For what it is worth, the COG-whatever pseudo-science test rates me as "androgeneous" (towards the male side)

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Yes my wife got similar, but no polarizing :)

Me I got told I was a woman all the way!

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and claims that I would likely suffer if I were forced to polarize towards to side or the other. Which summary does agree with how I feel. I don't feel especially that I am a woman, but I also think it is "too late to put the genie back in the bottle" and go back to being "just a male".

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So don't! Have fun! If you do dress up as Jenie (from I Dream of Jenie) please post photos!

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I could imagine that at some point, after retirement maybe, or perhaps on a longer vacation, I might experiment with presenting as female "full time" for a period and see how I like that, but I do not have any inclination towards SRS. I do not rule out hormones... but definitely not until I've given up on the possibility of becoming a father!

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Hormones are another issue, as is SRS. But 'living full time as a woman' is no big deal really. You could easily do it within your current life it seems. Hit the work place and see if they will cooperate. Worst case you give a few people something to laugh about and crack jokes. Sounds like you'd probably enjoy that anyway!

This is a question I've been asking myself lately...am I or am I not ts?I've read alot about transexuals and how clothes really don't mean alot to them but I think as much as that might be true just because someones really into clothes doesn't mean theyre not TS.I need to wear womens clothes in order to feel right.I love pantyhose and wear then everyday and most transexuals are not like this but I have read about gg's who love pantyhose just as much as I do, If I was born a girl I truely believe I'D wear pantyhose just as much as I do now! There are many gg's who love fashion and dress up alot!Not all gg's wear nothing but jeans and tshirt.

Jacindie

when you ask the question of whether you are "ts", you could be asking alot of things...many ts women never transtion, transition without srs, live without hormones, i beleive that you can be ts and not "know" it in the sense that we all know it.....the mind is incredible and if it can repress your nature for 30 yrs, why not 70 yrs?...although i do know 2 70+ yr old transitioners and they are very bitter folks.....and btw ...all crossdressers are different too....some like the sexiness, some like calm of it, some just like to freak people out....why all the definitions??? i know we are stuck with them because to transition and get my hormones and surgeries, i need dr's letters that basically say i'm ts, which is "officially" a mental disorder in the US and i think in Britain too.....a mental disorder that insurance doesnt help pay for!!!ugh

so as many point out, why define it?...its just what you do.....i repeat...its what you do!!!!

i'm very interested in this topic....when i go out and hang out with t-friends that are anything but post-op women....we talk on and on about this...why? why me? poor me, what will i tell my wife, what am i? am i really ts? etc etc..

when i go out with post op women we talk about music, movies, sports, our families....etc....outside of trans related politics, i've cant recall this type of discussion among a group post - ops.....of course, knowing my situation, i do get lots and lots of advice from post op women...

here's a tidbit from one....she said something like ..."i feel like i was on a long train ride, i could not get off the train no matter how hard i tried, i was tired, hungry, the train seemed to be out of control at times, and nothing else mattered, then all of sudden, my stop came up and i got off the train, and then i thought, where am i? what should i do now?...but i was a woman and i was very happy to be in that place"

does that sound like what you want?...i myself can't wait to get off on my stop....it certainly didnt deter me from my course...of course, i can't get off the train if i wanted!!!!!!


for me it was the pile up of life experience that finally broke my male spirit, which for me, was just a mirage....being a guy is great...IF YOU"RE A GUY!!!!!!!!!!! over time, everything about my male life weighed on my more and more and as melissa pointed out....its not Bull@)#T, its hard hard stuff, it was totally devasting to me to have all of my inner defenses fall apart ...inner defenses built around shame, guilt, and dare i say male obligation (guys just don't do this!!!) these are powerful emotions and not easily dealt with.....

so i totally broke down and i know lots of you have as well, and as i come up out of it, i'm still very lonely and emotional and the ups and downs are many....but i keep going!!! for MY OWN reasons....i'm DOING MY THING, and you can define me any way you want...i know genetically i was born a man, but my brain will not allow me to function as a guy...every time something happens to slow down my seemingly endless transition (i only started hrt in july heh), makes me miserable and brings back all that gender dysphoria...

tess--- all these thoughts you are having are totally normal human behavior...not typical of most but we were all put on this earth somehow and a whole bunch of us are stuck with this and many many sadly commit suicide!! over it, end up homeless over it, or end up beat up or shamed by it...
I FINALLY after many years of hating myself over it, decided to celebrate it and most importantly ACCEPT it...


tess....you seem to accept yourself just fine!!!
that took me 4 years of hell.......so I say just keep doing what you are doing, and explore your own self....with an OPEN mind, no shame, no guilt, just you being you and see what happens....you are doing great and you are definitely not alone! If you are starting to feel dysphoric, you can tell there are lots of folks here who know what you're talking about and you can share with us....same goes if you feel you are androgenous and want to live a dual life

michele

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Originally Posted by micheletv

i know we are stuck with them because to transition and get my hormones and surgeries, i need dr's letters that basically say i'm ts, which is "officially" a mental disorder in the US and i think in Britain too.....a mental disorder that insurance doesnt help pay for!!!ugh

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The 16 yo in Germany got her SRS on Insurance because it was defined as an illness!

GID isn't a mental illness. It is defined in the DSM only for the purposes of being readily available for 'professionals' to have some guide.

GID could be considered a mental condition. After all, the brain is hormonally programed to be one way whilst the body is another way. After birth, maybe it is an illness or a congenital disease. It's definitely congenital. But a disease? No, it doesn't qualify a one. A 'Syndrome' maybe.

But it's not a mental illness.

It is important to note though, that many TS people can have, and it is typical, to have one or more mental illness conditions. Depression is a mental illness. Treating a TS for depression symptoms will not treat the Gender Dysphoria. If the GID isn't treated, then the depression remains, even if you take 10,000 megagram of Anti Depressants each day.

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so as many point out, why define it?...its just what you do.....i repeat...its what you do!!!!

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Not quite. Cross Dressing is 'what you do' being TS is 'what you are' labeled as.

The difference between being TS and CD is simple. One is what you want to do - dress - and you will talk about dressing. One is what you are - the clothes are just a social convenience.

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i'm very interested in this topic....when i go out and hang out with t-friends that are anything but post-op women....we talk on and on about this...why? why me? poor me, what will i tell my wife, what am i? am i really ts? etc etc..

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Firstly you don't 'dress' and wonder if you are TS. You can wear anything you like, but you will still be TS.

Your t-friends talk about 'it' because some are seeking justification of their denial. Usually, from my experience, the denial is their sexuality, not their gender.

CD's who are OUT to wives, children, workplace, family etc have no issue. They don't pend hours talking about how to keep it secret, how to avoid their stash of clothes being found. Actually CDs who are out are pretty dull ordinary every day people. They just take a bit more care with their appearance, be it male or female, and tend to be more sensitive.

TVs however are orientation confused - at least in my experience. "How do I tell my wife I dress in women's clothes" is the least of their worries, as they gasp the words between thrust of their male partner. I'd be more concerned about them telling their wive that the business meeting on the other side of town on Friday night was a bloke orgy. The women clothes are jut the justification so they can 'do it' with a man. Well they are a woman afterall, and women have ex with men - right? So they aren't gay, they are straight married males.

(Yes I have a problem with these TV men! At least I can admit it! I think it's the denial and deceptiveness of them, that affects me, their wives and their families that annoys me so much. Then they have the nerve to lie to add to it!)

Being different is never easy. Society has for years, through religious pressure created 'perceptions' of sexuality, gender and what is 'accepted' - at least accepted by their narrow mindedness!

GOD did afterall make us as we are, otherwise, blame the parents for the faulty genes, gender, sexuality, not me, and certainly not God.

I was just thinking.

I want SRS because it will make me right. I will no longer have to have seedy secret sex with men because it's the only sex I can get - and in the 'male' form, I'd be having gay sex.

Post SRS, I'd be having straight sex and those seedy men who want sex with a penis won't be interested in me, but men who want to have sex with a woman will be.

Problem solved! A TV is not going to want to have straight sex without a penis! A CD tends not to have a sexual connection to dressing and most are straight and not interested in sex with a man anyway. Some are bi, and the ones I know, their wives know too.

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when i go out with post op women we talk about music, movies, sports, our families....etc....outside of trans related politics, i've cant recall this type of discussion among a group post - ops.....of course, knowing my situation, i do get lots and lots of advice from post op women...

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What is a Post Op Woman?

I know what a Post Op M2F Transsexual is - she is a woman.

I sympathies with 'Post Op' F2M Transsexuals, but they are just Men. Even if the 'Op' part is grossly lacking.

The reason you have a totally different discussion is because people who are clear in themselves don't need to ask about how to label themselves, or what others think they are, or how to tell their wives what they are.

I'm even starting to limit my use of "I'm a TS IS Pre Op" to just in the TS circles where it is a little important so other TS people can share relevant information with me. To the rest of the people I deal with at school, college, shops, business, government, I'm just a woman. Unless I can use that TS label for some advantage ;)

And I don't talk about non stop TS thing with everyone in my life. Not even my TS friends! Far too many other things to talk about! OK sure well pass on something of interest, but it doesn't dominate the conversation time.

here's a tidbit from one....she said something like ..."i feel like i was on a long train ride, <snip>"

Pretty terrible analogy. Well from my perspective it is. You don't 'get off at a stop' and suddenly you are a woman.

If train trips changed peoples lives so irreversibly dramatically then every time someone went to work or arrived home they'd be a different person!

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does that sound like what you want?...i myself can't wait to get off on my stop....it certainly didnt deter me from my course...of course, i can't get off the train if i wanted!!!!!!

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But really you aren't on a train. The journey is a life journey. It's not a 'leg' of a journey that has a start and end. Your journey started when you were born and will go through many transition till the day you die.

Transition itself in the narrow view of a TS is only one leg of a major project. Once you get off that 'train' after SRS, you have Mount Everast to climb. There is no train taking you up there.

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for me it was the pile up of life experience that finally broke my male spirit, which for me, was just a mirage....being a guy is great...IF YOU"RE A GUY!!!!!!!!!!! over time, everything about my male life weighed on my more and more and as melissa pointed out....its not Bull@)#T, its hard hard stuff, it was totally devasting to me to have all of my inner defenses fall apart ...inner defenses built around shame, guilt, and dare i say male obligation (guys just don't do this!!!) these are powerful emotions and not easily dealt with.....

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Wow, mid life crisis! Traumatic Event! Intense period of life and some major change occurs.

I read all of those in some people who try and tell me they are TS! What's interesting is that only 20% of people who front up and follow the 2 year RLT, Therapy, Approval for Surgery, Save the bucks - actually HAVE Surgery. The other 80% realise at the last minute, that they have been kidding themselves. (The 80/20 is quoted as coming from CHX in London)

Guy Just Don't Do This?

What is it guy's don't do?

Dress as Woman?

Got out on the town dresses as woman?

Have sex with men?

Um, that would be CDs and TVs.

The only thing guys don't do is have sex without a penis!

BTW I was referring generally above, not having a dig at you Michelle! Only because your next paragraph says something different.

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so i totally broke down and i know lots of you have as well, and as i come up out of it, i'm still very lonely and emotional and the ups and downs are many....but i keep going!!! for MY OWN reasons....i'm DOING MY THING, and you can define me any way you want...i know genetically i was born a man, but my brain will not allow me to function as a guy...

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Well I can relate to that. Mine never did. I had to study men and how they acted and mimic that. When people said "Men don't act like that" I'd adapt. When people say "Men are always wanting sex" I just always wanted sex. I just drew a line at drugs, getting drunk and group masturbation.

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every time something happens to slow down my seemingly endless transition (i only started hrt in july heh), makes me miserable and brings back all that gender dysphoria...

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The only things slowing you down are you. No one else.

The Gender Dysphoria will haunt you till you accept you are not Dyshphoric any more. Hormones and SRS aren't really going to do that for you.

If Hormones 'treated' Dyphoria then the 'Take a Pill' solution is found.

I don't have Gender Dysphoria in my own mind because I accepted I'm a woman. I am a woman socially. I am a woman in my home. Hormones didn't make that happen for me. My decisions to release the act of what I was told to be, and to be myself, did it for me.

Hormones are correcting by body hormone dominance, and fixing a little, the damage done by my hormone therapy as a child.

SRS won't fix me. In my case it will repair the surgery I was given as a child. In other cases it brings the body into alignment with the brain.

Remember too, the Brain has for many year 'trained' to operate the male genitals. After SRS your brain re-trains.

If your brain has been working over time to 'operate machinery it was not designed to operate' imagine the relief on the brain that now all the right things are in place!

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Originally Posted by jacindie

I need to wear womens clothes in order to feel right.I love pantyhose and wear then everyday and most transexuals are not like this but I have read about gg's who love pantyhose just as much as I do,

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It's called a Fetish. It's not a symptom of being TS.

Men use to wear tights for centuries till about 200 years ago. Does that mean all the men of Royalty, Knights and so on were all TS? Course not.

In modern days, pantyhose is a fetish. Trust me, you would not have had the joy of the fetish 200 year ago when pantyhose were rough and scratchy!

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If I was born a girl I truely believe I'D wear pantyhose just as much as I do now! There are many gg's who love fashion and dress up alot!Not all gg's wear nothing but jeans and tshirt.

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My wife doesn't wear pantyhose. I only wear tights and pantyhose during winter to insulate my legs from the cold. My legs are terribly long and heating them is important.

During summer, I rarely wear anything on my legs.

I like looking pretty, and looking attractive. I can't do that in men clothing. Nothing EVER fit me, I had to buy Teenage Boy pants in extra long lengths because my frame was 2 inches too mall for the 'mens' section. Men's shirts are jut square cut and are totally unflattering.

Now I have tailored blouses that fit my body, skirts and dresses that make me feel confident and assertive.

I could never do that in menswear! Even now.

fetish (plural fetishes)

1. Something nonsexual, such as an object or a part of the body which arouses sexual desire or is necessary for one to reach full sexual satisfaction

If this is what you are implying your'e totally wrong,I wear pantyhose because I love the way they look and feel.When I say feel I'm referring to my tuck,its is perfect,my testicles stay up inside me and I'm flat in front.I don't see my male body anymore! not sexual at all! Assuming
it must be because of sexual reasons is not fair!

I've gotten so used to wearing them I feel wrong without them, I don't want to feel or see my male parts hanging there between my legs.

As for fashion I like how they look, its personal taste ,taste I don't share with your wife !



until you know me don't quote me!

Jacindie

"How do you know if you are transgendered or just CD?"

How do you KNOW you are breathing?
How do you KNOW if you are talking?
How do you KNOW if you are eating?
How do you KNOW if you are walking?
How do you KNOW if you are doing whatever it is that you are doing?

A person who is TRANS-GENDER KNOWS. And the others know also that they are NOT a Trans-gender. There is no test questions to answer to KNOW. You KNOW it in your heart and mind and soul. For that is WHAT a trans-gender is: HEART and MIND and SOUL.

Everything and anything else is just a male in woman's clothing probably seeking some kind of "thrill." And most likely "getting off" on the idea of doing it secretly which adds to the stimulation/eroticism. Trans-genders are not doing it to "get their rocks off." They are doing it because it comes from within.....deep within their soul.

And if you have to inquire from others, it is very doubtful, in my opinion, you are a Trans-gender!!!

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Originally Posted by jacindie

If this is what you are implying your'e totally wrong,I wear pantyhose because I love the way they look and feel.When I say feel I'm referring to my tuck,its is perfect,my testicles stay up inside me and I'm flat in front.I don't see my male body anymore! not sexual at all! Assuming
it must be because of sexual reasons is not fair!

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Interesting. And fair point. I jut find pantyhose cause yeast infections and all kind of issue. And YES you can get a yeast infection around the anus too. It's not as uncommon as you might think.

I, obviously, tuck too. But I don't rely on Pantyhose to hold me in place. Goodness Pantyhose just are not designed to do that! They slip and slide and have lot of stretch in them.

Using a Gaff is the perfect solution. Some use the 'smaller' nicker under a fitting pair, but that doesn't always stay put either. I'm actually designing something presently that I think will be far better, and cheaper.

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I've gotten so used to wearing them I feel wrong without them, I don't want to feel or see my male parts hanging there between my legs.

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Again fair enough. But Pantyhose aren't the best or healthiest solution. Mot women don't wear pantyhose every day.

Besides the fact that most pantyhose don't last more than a few days wear!

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As for fashion I like how they look, its personal taste ,taste I don't share with your wife !

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Kinda surprised really. Your legs from your avi pic look pretty damn good in shape! Natural skin is always more attractive!

But yes, it is personal taste. But you can see how it could be perceived as a fetish - because often, in the TG environment, it is. It's also a sexual fetish specifically for men.

Don't consider I'm saying that pantyhose on the whole are fetish, that' not the case. It's just unusual in some niche environments, that it is not a fetish.