Guilt

I see many of you talking about guilt related to the dressing. It intrigues me because I never felt such a thing. I could say I felt shame or ridicule, but that shame or ridicule were mostly derived from how I imagined people would judge me if they knew (given remarks I have witnessed about other men doing it publicly), and not from how I judged myself. I don't think CDing is ridiculous or shameful. Silly at times maybe. And the only guilt I ever felt in respect to CDing was from lying to my wife, and not because of the dressing per se.
What guilt can we have for a crime that has no victim? Is it because you lied to your SO? Or because you consider it something that is forbidden by some natural or social law? Were you even able to understand why you feel guilt?

I never felt guilt. I could see someone feeling guilty about sneaking around or spending too much money, etc.. The big one to feel guilty over would be upsetting your spouse.

This thing we do is bigger than the thing itself, though. I could imagine that it causes all kinds of unnecessary emotions. To me, when you break it down, none of it should be a big deal. So, you put on a dress, you wore makeup, you wore a bra and panties, etc.. None of that, taken at face value, amounts to anything. But, people get all wound up about it. We do and our spouses do. I know for a fact that there are wives that feel guilty because they can't be as supportive as some wives are. There's plenty of guilt to go around, I guess.

Diane, Yes there is a victim, unfortunately it is our wives. Unless you are one of the few rare ones here whose spouse is all in our wives are victims. Maybe they knew beforehand but that is still a small number. I know some here whose wives have no idea, now that can go downhill fast if/when they find out.
Hiding anything related to CDing is a minefield for the both of you.
One thing we do preach here is to be honest, which is good, but we know that can come with a big price.

It took me 10 years to get over the guilt of the time and energy I "wasted" thinking and planning my next "dress up play session" when I should have been doing something useful and productive!:sad:

Why don't I feel that way now even tho my entire house, garages, guest apartment, and studio r filled to overflowing with Sherry gear, photo sets and props, and badly need cleaning and organizing? Because I live alone so no one suffers from my mania but me! And, what else can an 80 y/o man do that's half as creative, inspiring, exciting, and just plain fun than CDing!?:tongueout

@Crissy. I can understand guilt from making a loved one suffer. But what you describe is guilt from the lying, not the dressing. That guilt wouldn't exist if we'd been upfront with our SO before committing to the relationship.

I think that people tend to put a lot of things under the "dressing" umbrella. To take a few examples, lying, stealing clothes, indulging yourself, cheating while dressed, are often associated (in this site at least) with it. Yes these things can generate guilt. But they are not the act itself of dressing in female clothes since you can do the latter without the formers.
The reason I started this thread is because I am interested to know if a genuine guilt stemming solely from the dressing act itself may exist. If it does, I am interested to hear about it, and how the person explains it, if she can (and is willing to try to) explain it.

@Doc, wasted time and energy, that makes sense.

@RhondaJean Very good point. The topic of CDer wives' guilt would deserve a topic of its own. So many testimonies on this site of GGs who are trying to accept and please their husband, despite the shock of the reveal and the broken trust. Doing this out of love, and still fearing that they might do wrong. Losing themselves sometimes with a husband who doesn't see it.

I very much agree with you Diane. The act of wearing the clothes is simply the way we are and that should not make one feel guilty. It is hard to feel guilty about being yourself. That said, being yourself can go against what others believe is proper and appropriate. To some extent, in that case the problem rests with the others and not with yourself. Nevertheless, doing something that is un acceptable to others can still generate guilt because it makes the others feel bad and if they are a loved one that can generate guilt in us. That still does not justify feeling guilty about the dressing itself but feeling guilty about hurting another is more a matter of perception and trying to stay true to the larger social standards, be they right or wrong. So, in a sense, the whole package can generate guilt even though the trigger factor in the package should not generate guilt. It is a complex system and the characteristics of all the parts contribute to the whole.

However, I think Crissy is saying that the act of dressing can be linked to the guilt generated as a result of needing to be secretive about it or doing things that the SO would not like. It is hard to separate out the various finer pieces and parts of this activity when engaging in the activity. In other words, the guilt felt with one aspect can bleed or leak into other aspects and when that happens the whole thing can appear to generate guilt. The solution is to be honest and then adapt to whatever response is provided by the person who cares. Thus, perhaps, Crissy is looking at the whole package and the final result that can occur and have a negative net sum resulting in the generation of generalized guilt.

Here are a few more thoughts on guilt:

Doing something that you've been told (most of your life) is a bad thing, can make you feel guilty.

Preferring time dressed up and sacrificing time with loved ones to do it - can make you feel guilty.

Self "stimulation" - especially if a side effect of dressing - can make you feel guilty.

Lying, hiding, or denying your truth, can make you feel guilty.

Not speaking up or defending others against unfair, bigoted, hate from others can make you feel guilty.

and finally-

Low self esteem can make you feel guilty about everything! (been there, done that!)

From the very first time I left my house I decided if I couldn't walk out the door dressed, I wouldn't do this.
I didn't think I'm much of it at the time but I guess it was my way of not dealing the guilt or suppressing or fighting against it. However you want to say it. I know people that had to dress in their car, some dressed when they got where they were going. They did whatever they had To Do to make it work because they were hiding it. Hiding it is another aspect which I can't fault anyone for whatever situation you're in. I just knew from day one if I wasn't able to walk out the door as myself i wasn't doing this and that's what I've done.

I think it was more shame than guilt for me. without a partner, I think it's more difficult to have guilt just my thought on that.

I was raised Catholic and told everything I did was going to damn me to hell. Me being damned to hell for eternity for coveting panties right next to mass murderers. Took awhile to get over it. No guilt nowadays.

I used to "purge" everything every so often out of shame and guilt only to realize the money I was wasting and the dissatisfaction I would get from it, I'm in a healthy relationship and a healthy spot in life so at this point in my life I feel no shame or guilt for doing what I now know is just apart of me that is ok to explore and enjoy. It causes no harm to anyone. Everyone deserves to be able to wear what they want to wear and wear what makes them feel pretty or cute or at their best.

I felt guilt about upsetting my wife after she discovered my stash. But not about dressing itself.I am more concerned about the consequences and shame of other family members such as my daughters etc

I have felt lots of guilt over the years. Part for lying, part from the feeling that I might bring shame upon my family, part just the deeply embedded sense that it?s wrong. I remember a few decades ago being gently reminded by my pshychologist that it was not a crime. I still have those feelings from time to time.

In order to feel guilt you have to do something bad that is injurious to another. When I dabbled in my mother's lingerie draw I felt excitement (That I acted upon) followed by self loathing and shame that I liked wearing her clothing. In the 1960's I was told that men who wore women's clothing were gay, although the words were vulgar and crude. I'm in the same boat as "alwayshave;" Damned to hell for every little transgression. I did feel guilt when I snapped the shoulder strap of my mother's sole black bra; also terror of the confrontation that never came.

If I was an active cross dresser when I met and married my wife I probably would have been guilty of withholding vital information. I wasn't. Those were days in the distant past; Way past the days of slogging through the muck of Nam as an infantryman. How manly can you be, humping six weeks at a time, sleeping on the ground, drinking rice patty runoff, getting wounded twice and medivaced. Yep, in the past......until. When our bedroom play progressed to more than it was, there was "The Talk." Yes, she said had she know she would not have married me for some societal transgressions six years in the past. Well, let's talk about laying out all the cards. She told me she wished she had NOT told me some of the details of her past. Yep, there were more surprises to come from her. She said, after thinking about it that she could not hold my failure to deep dive into my past against me because she did the same thing. Oh, the value of mutually shared nuclear destruction! Guilt? It's only a word.

I had severe guilt in my early years because I believed that our society believes that males should not dress in women's attire. I felt like a freak to even wear a pair of panties.

My wife is solely responsible for convincing me that this need to CD harms nobody and that I should fully accept myself as I am, and as she accepts me, as I am.

I've only been CDing a few short years; but, I've never felt any guilt for doing so. I am the same caring, generous, considerate, and loving person I like to think I've always been.

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Originally Posted by DianeT

What guilt can we have for a crime that has no victim?

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For me, I tend not to feel guilty for dressing in feminine items. My overall emotions from dressing are positive. But, there are negative emotions involved because of reactions from my wife. I tend not to feel bad that I have the taste I have, but I do tend to feel bad that she's "stuck" with someone with my tastes. It's not that she doesn't receive benefits from being married to me, but I'm always aware of how ashamed she'd be for anyone else to know. One could make an argument that there's no victim, but the social backlash in my particular social circle could be severe for my wife and for me.

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Originally Posted by DianeT

Is it because you lied to your SO?

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I started dressing in my mid-fifties and included her early. I left her a lot of control in the beginning and that seemed to work in maintaining a sense of safety for her. Since it's all experimental for me, I tend to try various ideas before allowing her to see anything new. Someone could argue that I'm lying by omission by not expressing every experiment openly, but I disagree. So, for me it's not about lying. On the other hand, I do feel inclined to hide certain things about myself but feel that she could take as much blame for making me hide aspects that I'd love to share with her. She's made sharing unsafe to some degree. Maybe her reasons are legitimate. But, I don't think that they're more legitimate than mine.

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Originally Posted by DianeT

Or because you consider it something that is forbidden by some natural or social law?

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I don't think that it's necessarily breaking a natural or social law that leads to a feeling of guilt. I think that it's the awareness of the likely reactions of others that brings about negative feelings that we interpret as guilt. I cannot think of anyone making a legitimate claim to a "natural" law against wearing any particular item of clothing. "Men's" and "Women's" clothes are a social and marketing construct and even crossdressers support that construct by wanting to wear "women's" clothes. I know that I am guilty of preferring the same item from the women's department rather than the men's.

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Originally Posted by DianeT

Were you even able to understand why you feel guilt?

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As I've said above, it's not guilt that I feel, but there are definite negative emotions associated with the legitimate feelings of rejection that come with crossdressing in intimate or social interactions.

I think the guilt comes with hiding it or lying about it to loved ones.

But then emotions are quite often confused and are hard to differentiate. I sometimes feel shame or is it guilt.

Emily xx

I certainly do not feel guilty about dressing.

I feel guilty about hiding everything from my spouse, as she gets upset when she learns about something that I did not tell her. She knows I CD, but not the full story or the extent of my wardrobe, wigs, and makeup.

I spent many years feeling guilty when I was younger. I thought that I was the only one on the planet with this desire (or need) to wear women's hosiery. After getting married the guilty feelings quadrupled because I tried to keep it a secret from my wife and when she found out she said many nasty things. This obviously made the guilty feelings worse.

After becoming single again I slowly got over the guilt but still felt self-conscious and somewhat embarrassed.

Now that I'm in a new, supportive relationship I have accepted my 'eccentricity' and the embarrassment has waned. I'm able to undress and remove my pantyhose in my GFs presence. Yet - oddly - I still don't feel confident enough to put my pantyhose on while she's in the room.

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Originally Posted by Bea_

"Men's" and "Women's" clothes are a social and marketing construct and even crossdressers support that construct by wanting to wear "women's" clothes.

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Such an excellent point! That stereotyped CDers (count me in), by making clothing a strictly gendered thing, are contributing to spreading binary social standards that in turn generate hostility against them, this is something that I never realized before, and yet it makes total sense if you think of it.

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Originally Posted by kimdl93

Part for lying, part from the feeling that I might bring shame upon my family, part just the deeply embedded sense that it?s wrong.

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That's what this thread is about. The feeling that the dressing is inherently wrong. Not because of what surrounds it (lying, social shaming, etc.), but because of its very own nature. Dressing as, presenting as a woman. When I started doing it as a young teenager, I felt it was wrong too. Years before, I had to wear tights (with just a t-shirt) for a school play at 5 1/2 and it was as a very traumatic experience for me. Just to say that this feeling that it is wrong for a boy to dress as a girl was already ingrained from a very early age. Whatever "wrong" actually meant. But it was clear that I didn't want to be dressed as a girl at the time. However, this feeling of "wrong" was heavily related to the audience seeing me in the attire. I'm not sure how I would have felt if nobody had been supposed to see me like this, and if nobody had known about it (which will remain a pure mind experience since if nobody had known then nobody would have asked me to dress in the first place...).
When I started dressing (on my own account this time) at around 11, I still had this sense of "wrong" about it, but again, it was related to how I imagined people would judge me if they found out. If I didn't think about it, then this feeling of "wrong" was gone.
I think how most members here describe their guilt about the dressing, it is vastly related too to other people's judgment, and when they speak about the thing itself, the pure act of dressing as a female, there's no real guilt feeling. Possibly a sense of "wrong", but it's not the same thing. Because like some said, guilt is when you injure someone. But "wrong", with no victim, I think it leads more to feelings of shame, and even that shame is mostly linked to others' judgment, and if you don't think about others, I suspect that shame, that sense of wrong, goes away. At least that is how I analyze it.

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Originally Posted by alwayshave

I was raised Catholic and told everything I did was going to damn me to hell.

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Would that generate guilt or angst?

Call it guilt, or shame. It doesn't matter. Those of us on the TG spectrum are who we are not because of any moral or character deficiency. Yes, many people will judge us that way. Ignorance abounds, so let go of that "What would people think?" mindset. Yes, of course, the (ignorant) judgement of others can impact us, and whatever you deem necessary for the preservation of your livelihood (for example) is valid, but just remember that you are protecting yourself from their ignorance. You have done nothing wrong.

I felt the shame and insecurity as a child. Knowing I was different from others and always afraid they would find out and ostracize me.

Guilt came later on when I married. It wasn't guilt that I am a crossdresser, but guilt that I was always lying to her, hiding from her, stealing time from her to dress. That became a burden too heavy to bear and about 20 years ago I went to her and said, "we have a problem". I was ready to accept whatever the result was, but I had to come clean. I was lucky. After many long nights talking and crying she was willing to learn and see more. Here we are now and she is fully accepting, my most honest critic and my everywhere companion.
There is no more guilt.