Feeling guilty for not paying my dues?

Hey All,

Something that has occurred to me. This may pertain more to those of us who aren’t necessarily dealing with actual gender change needs and desires. In discussions with my wife, we talk about my dressing sort of taking on a "less sexual", and more, “other fulfillment's” focus. She’s asked questions like “why would you want to wear a bra all the time if you don’t have too?” or “why would you want to have to put on make-up?” to name a few. These kind of questions got me to thinking. Am I “High Grading” this situation? (High Grading, for those who might not know, is an old mining term that refers to only taking the very best ore, and leaving the rest for somebody else to deal with) Am I enjoying the pleasurable, at least for me, parts of being a woman, without having to go through the many less appealing challenges that GG women have to endure their whole lives? You know, stuff like being a teenage girl in junior high, not to mention the way more serious cultural and biological challenges that woman face every day. And is it fair for me to do that? I often think about Caitlyn Jenner winning her Woman of the Year title, and wonder if there wasn’t resentment from some of the genetic female population.

This may have been discussed before, and I’m not looking to cause any feelings. I’m just wondering if any of the rest of you have thought about the same thing. I do know it makes me feel more appreciative about my situation and opportunities. Even little things like, when a GG SA is willing to treat me with courtesy and friendliness when helping me. It also makes me more appreciative of my wife, and the rest of the genetic female population for how truly amazing they are.

Grateful for my blessings and for women(genetic or not) everywhere.
Hugs
MeeShell

As a crossdresser, I think much of this is relative, Meeshall. Altho it takes me an hour+ to prep every time I dress, I only do that a few times a month.
Most GG women and TS's that dress every day r ready to go out in 15 minutes!:battingeyelashes:

What u say about a nice word from an SA and the difficulties GG women face daily seem at odds, tho. I don't consider friendly help from servers and SA's to mean much because that's their job.

While being a single GG woman out in public certainly has it's problems, they don't face the constant negative cracks, derision, and scorn many of us dressers who don't pass do either!:sad:

Honey, they have to go through those things if you’re dressed or not. I think you’re way overthinking your impact on womanhood.

I find your high-grading comment interesting since I have never heard it referred to as that before. I define myself as non-binary so I pick and choose what I like to wear. So for me, most days I wear skirt, t-shirt, hoodie, shoes, and my long hair (little more maintenance then short hair before). So I definitely picking and choosing which feminine aspects I wish to use and ignoring the ones that I don't like. Definitely high-grading. But I also don't want to be female or seen as one, so I am not wanted to emulate their full experience anyway so who cares if I am high-grading then.

I think CDers can easily see how green the grass is in the other gender and not realize it gets muddy over there too. We have our own unique experience apart from genetic women trying to figure our way through the genders.

Sounds like a bunch of misplace guilt.
Who are you taking anything away from? Who's life are you messing up?
It is more a man thing to feel guilty for enjoying something because men seem to have what I call "martyr syndrome".
Its OK to enjoy things don't over think all this CD stuff.

Men have every right to be happy why do so many feel they are doing something wrong enjoying life or any activity for that matter?

No, don’t feel guilty. Some women enjoy the traditional presentation of femininity, some don’t, most do sometimes - but as Miki said, it’s not a reward for putting up with the rubbish aspects of being a woman, any more than wearing smart suits is a reward for dealing with the pressures of being a man. You don’t sound like a hypocrite trying to put women in a box of old gender roles that you yourself are escaping, so good luck and enjoy yourself!

I may not have paid female dues but life has gotten more than its fair share from me. I don't know you or your life but mine hasn't been all roses and male privileges.

I wear dresses most of the time most days (skirts and tops more rarely) - always with a bra. I don't like make up and only wear it to go out dressed - same with wigs. I am aware that I am cherry picking from the female side but my aim is to look good in womenswear not to be a women so I don't see why I should feel guilt. There are no dues to pay. I appreciate and admire women but my clothing gives me no insights except an understanding of how much effort goes into their appearance. For some of us it is just clothes and acting so for us - just RELAX and enjoy.

MeeShell,

For me, one of the byproducts of dressing s that we become more aware of what GG's go though on a daily basis. When I've spent 7 days being fully enfemme I have to admit that towards the end the routine of shaving, makeup, etc starts to loss it's lustre. It's hard work so I can understand your SO's comments. That said there are those GG's who will day in, day out, commit to such a regime and feel it's worth the effort.

Perhaps it's down to us to make the same value judgement .

"Paying our Dues"

I apologize in advance if this seems like a rant (it isn't) or that I am trying to belittle the community (I'm not), but this topic is kind of a slap in the face. To genetic women.

As crossdressers and trangender women, we CANNOT "pay our dues". It is physically impossible.

As persons born with male genitals, we cannot possibly know what women go through; from menstruation, fear of pregnancy, to actual pregnancy & childbirth, to the fear of physical violence or rape. Not to mention being treated as a second class citizens, or worse, in many parts of the world.

I am not demeaning CD's, but you choose to wear articles of clothing that are typically for the opposite gender, you don't HAVE to wear them. Ask your spouses, or girlfriends, or close female friends or relatives how they would feel if they went to work without a bra. Especially those women who are more 'busty'.

To flip it a bit, many corporate dress codes require a suit and tie for male employees to present a "professional" appearance. For those that have to adhere to this type of dress code, what's the first thing you take off at the end of the day? Why?


Bottom line is, if you want to feel guilty about something, then feel guilty that it is the 21st century, and women are still struggling for equal rights.

Many of us are NOT "TRYING TO BE WOMEN"----So "Not paying dues" is not an issue. The "other fulfilment" thing is the likely issue, although without one's own "personal analysis" what this other thing IS may be difficult to grasp. Also a lot of the cultural misconceptions and myths about cross dressing may further complicate getting insights, if one buys into them. I have discovered that I Cross-dress Primarily to ESCAPE my male self. And not that I really want to be or identify with women. By becoming totally, "another person" I find I get a "Rush" from breaking my identity bonds---which parts of the brain highly resist. AND getting away with such a "built in taboo" without "pain" tends to produce a HIGH many feel intoxicating.====Also being free from my responsibilities and those of "Manhood" permits me to entirely relax and unwind completely, psychologically.----Not to mention the good feeling of "Being pretty". There are MANY reasons for dressing and looking like a woman OTHER than identifying with them.

I can see how it can be confusing for many of us who have grown up thinking Crossdressing was something we did because we somehow identify with women------That gets in our way when we try to figure out what is really going on. Especially when, in our case, it really is not why we are crossdressing in the first place.

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Originally Posted by MarinaTwelve200

>>SNIP<<
I have discovered that I Cross-dress Primarily to ESCAPE my male self. And not that I really want to be or identify with women. By becoming totally, "another person" I find I get a "Rush" from breaking my identity bonds---which parts of the brain highly resist. AND getting away with such a "built in taboo" without "pain" tends to produce a HIGH many feel intoxicating.====Also being free from my responsibilities and those of "Manhood" permits me to entirely relax and unwind completely, psychologically.----Not to mention the good feeling of "Being pretty". There are MANY reasons for dressing and looking like a woman OTHER than identifying with them.

I can see how it can be confusing for many of us who have grown up thinking Crossdressing was something we did because we somehow identify with women------That gets in our way when we try to figure out what is really going on. Especially when, in our case, it really is not why we are crossdressing in the first place.

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Thank you Marina, this is probably the #1 reason for casual crossdressing! To be someone else, if only for a little while.

To escape the hum-drum of everyday life, some folk play video games, or watch movies/ read books, or indulge in adult beverages, or sports, or illicit drugs. Some folk like to don an 'alter-ego', whether on-line, or in RL as a form of escapism.

They say that a persons strongest fantasies/daydreams, are about the things they CANNOT do in reality.

MeeShell, it is nice to have considerate thoughts like this, but you are overthinking things, we all have to have a consideration for others but you do mnot have to punish yourself in the process.

In some respects, I agree with others that you may be overthinking this. You may also be thinking categorically. That is a way of thinking about gender as though it falls into nice neat packets - there are men and there are women and they are distinct. The fact is, they are not distinct. It all falls along a spectrum and each person occupies a zone on that spectrum and, over time, changes position. The change in position is a result of our brains always developing and trying new combinations to solve particular problems. It learns.

Your analogy of high grading is a good one, but only if there is high grade ore present. Perhaps the ore is dispersed more or less equally throughout the mineral deposit. I think that is more similar to the reality of gender. We are all different. Look around at women. Some dress in a somewhat masculine way, others are elegant, and the rest are whatever they feel fits who they are. That is a reflection of the fact that feminine/female is not a constant. Men are the same way. And we are a part of that as well.

We each have different feelings about who we are in terms of gender and we seek some kind of expression that communicates to others something fundamental about yourself. Wearing a bra when you don't have boobs to put in the bra is, on an objective level, ridiculous. But if the concept of self generated in your brain creates an image where that anatomical feature is an expectation then there is a need to include that in your expression so the feedback to your brain is confirming of what it has produced.

Of course, that makes it sound like your brain is playing games. It isn't. It is doing what it is supposed to do based on its original configuration that formed a gender identity foundation that is both set and flexible so it can adapt to how the rest of your brain interprets the world around you. Thus, it is important for each person, male, female, masculine, feminine, or any blend thereof to follow the concept your brain is producing in a reasonably close fashion. There is still a lot of flexibility in there because your gender identity actually spans a region of the gender spectrum and within that region you are provided with a lot of flexibility. In my view, the sweet spot, the place where the ore is richest, is where you experience the least discomfort and the highest compatibility with the concept your brain is producing regarding your gender identity.

Hi Meeshell :hugs:, Crossdressing, See #2 in my signature!.

>Orchid ...:daydreaming:+..

Meeshell,
That is the learning curve what we see as feminine and what women do , personally I don't see it as high grading, most of us don't know when we have reached the end of the road so we just keep trying to do things better or should I say more natural , at least that's how I see it as I'm out full time .

If you speak to most women they are happy to be women , not all see it as a chore , not all enjoy the makeup and the clothes but they enjoy being women .

For those of us with dysphoria we have paid our dues in full , walking away from a 44 year marriage and risking losing everything in my case . Somehow I would be disappointed in myself and possibly others might if I didn't try and present myself as female as possible otherwise what was all the sacrifices about ?

I see my male lifestyle as living in a straightjacket , there is more pressure on a man to act the male part than there is on a woman .

I don't agree with Jodie's comment about thinking women are 2nd class citizens and I don't feel nowdays we are slapping a GG in the face . It's possibly our only way of dealing with an inner trait or should I say hidden which by dressing we expose to the World .

In a converation only last night another member of my social group said she felt proud being a transwoman , to put it into my words I'm totally happy being Teresa .

I've got to agree that there is no reason to feel guilty about "not paying our dues". Each sex has it's own pressures and expectations that can not be borne by the other. As for myself, I dress to to present favorably as a female and hope to be treated as such. I don't try to outdo, but I appreciate it when another woman comments on my outfit.
If anything I think a lot of women notice and appreciate the fact we do try to look as good as we can. They understand the effort involved although I'm sure many of them don't understand why we go through all the work.

Good questions...
My wife and I had a similar discussion once. I almost always sleep in a bra with my forms to keep that feminine feeling and she asked me why I wore my bra. My answer was simple, "if I don't wear a bra my tits fall off". Sounds over simplified, but that's the truth. If I had breasts then I would probably wear a bra much less. Certainly I wouldn't wear it while sleeping, I might not wear one around the house, I might not even wear one for average daily activities but that's not the case.
As for makeup, I generally don't wear it around the house for daily chores, but I always do when I go out. Why? Well, I want to look my best and we all know that makeup can drastically change your appearance making you younger looking, more attractive and of course making you feel better about yourself.

I don't feel that I'm minimizing the things that women do or have experienced in their lives. I dearly wish I could have had many of those experiences, from puberty through those fumbling early dates to marriage and childbirth, but that's just not possible. I'm not trying to pay my dues to any group, I'm simply trying to express something inside of me that has always been there, always will and that after all these decades I still don't fully understand and probably never will. I just know that something inside of me isn't happy unless I'm expressing it as a woman.

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Originally Posted by Teresa

Meeshell,

I don't agree with Jodie's comment about thinking women are 2nd class citizens and I don't feel nowdays we are slapping a GG in the face . It's possibly our only way of dealing with an inner trait or should I say hidden which by dressing we expose to the World .

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Just to clarify, I don't think women are second class, but the fact is that many people do, otherwise there wouldn't be things like wage inequality.

Secondly, I did NOT say that crossdressing is a slap in the face to women.

I DID say that the idea of paying one's dues, was.

And that is not to say that there isn't a price to pay. I lost a marriage of 30 years and love of a good woman, who just couldn't handle the issues of my trangenderism.

To feel guilty about desiring to emulate women, while genetically avoiding the negatives, is illogical and pointless.

I feel no sense of guilt for taking a shortcut....or high grading. Being human....any gender...has its built-in trials and occasional benefits. As a transgender person somewhere finding my way along the gender continuum has presented challenges. This has adversely affected the way I thought of myself (for decades), presented challenges in intimate relationships, and even a potential risk to gainful employment. We all have paid our dues.

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Am I enjoying the pleasurable, at least for me, parts of being a woman, without having to go through the many less appealing challenges that GG women have to endure their whole lives?

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Me too except I would say I simply dress like a woman and may try to emulate a woman somewhat. So there's nothing to feel guilty about as far as that goes.

I’m kinda of the mindset that if I’m going out with friends to do something fun, then I’m probably gonna wear a dress and do my makeup nice. Why? Cuz I want to. I think cis (and trans) women do similar. Day to day, they are with little makeup and very casual clothes. But, once in a while, when out for the evening to have fun and they want to put in the effort, they turn it up a notch (or two or maybe more). Why? Cuz they want to and it makes them feel good to Be slaying it. It’s really not that complicated.

Tina is the feminine side of my being. That doesn't make Tina a girl. For Tina to present her feminine self, she needs to exude being feminine, and for that she feels she needs clothes, makeup, feminine deportment, a non-male voice (else it is just so incongruous), hair, and probably other things When all that gets put together and the Tina side of my mind comes forward, she is a consistent presentation both externally and (probably more important) internally.

But that does not make her a girl. Considering all the work that has been put into being Tina, I don't see where this is stripping the high-grade ore! And let's not begin to talk about the potential animosity towards her from a large segment of the population.

We are who we are, but the GG half of the population has no reason to be threatened by us. After all, we really are amateurs at being feminine in comparison to them and there is no way we will ever be better at it than they are! :)

Hi Meeshell, just be the person that you (and your wife) are happy with, and don't worry about other aspects. As Tracii has mentioned, there is no gain in martyring yourself by feeling guilty about enjoying who you are.
Make the most of the situation you are in, :thumbsup:, others will do the same for themselves.

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Originally Posted by Meeshell

“why would you want to wear a bra all the time if you don’t have too?” or “why would you want to have to put on make-up?” to name a few.

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Most aren't able to answer questions along those lines, because they: 1. Don't know, 2. Don't want to know, and 3. Desperately fear any connection with femininity, consciously or subconsciously. Over and over again, we see crossdressers creating an entire feminine persona to assign all the feminine feelings and thoughts to. Then talk as if it's not him, but an entire other person, because they cannot accept that it's all them. Many even refer to themselves in third person, an additional way to further distance what they often refer to as 'their real, masculine self', from these feminine feelings and behaviors. This, perhaps, comes from growing up in an environment where we were almost constantly told or have it implied to us, that for a boy to be feminine in any way, is the absolutely, positively worst thing that a boy can be. So we grow up with that, never being able to admit it to ourselves.
Wearing a bra, putting on make up, shaving our bodies to more resemble a female or just to indulge in doing a behavior that is not typically masculine, or doing other things which are indicative to ourselves of being female, all go to support the feeling that we are female, at least when we are doing them. They are often all part of a bunch of constant, subtle reminders that we are not male, which we indulge in, in order to fend off the gender dysphoria. All the little things that contribute to feedback that women get, which men do not. Wearing a choker? Check. Long, pretty hair? Check. Necklace? Check. Dangling earrings which make slight sounds and brush against your neck? Check. Feeling a bra's slight movement when you breath? Check. Nylon panties sliding against your skin with every slight movement? Check. Garters and the stockings? Check. Heels? Check. Perfume so you smell like a woman? Check. From your eye's point of view, seeing everything you are as female? Check. In fact, many of us even read and watch TV and movies when 'en femme' that we would not, while dressed as men (and we even do so then, when given the chance not to be discovered doing so). The list goes on and on, so many little things which are constant DIFFERENT feelings, sounds and sights, that one experiences if female, that a male does not.

Does that mean we're transsexual? Not necessarily. But it will mean that you will have to further try to figure out where those feelings are coming from, and why your subconscious needs the sensory feedback which tells you that you're actually a female.