Passing: Easier than we think?

Since about the age of seven, my biggest hobby has been magic (not the candles & pentagrams kind, the cards and slieght-of-hand type.) One of the most interesting aspects of it to me has always been psychological "misdirection." That is, taking advantage of the fact that most people's minds are wired in a way that they often "see" what they expect to see instead of what's actually happening right in front of them. In fact, I found the psychological and related perceptual tricks our minds often play on us so intriguing that Psych became my major in college.

Ever since I decided to crossdress full time, I've been drawing on things I learned both in the study of psychology and as a magician to see just how much I can "get away with" in my femme-lite mode and still be percieved as a relatively normal male. Recently I've begun to wonder about the opposite: can CDers turn people's perceptual quirks to their advantage when they want to pass? Along that line, here's a link to one of my favorite videos. It's a piece by Derren Brown, a magician from England, that demonstrates just how little people often see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vBPG_OBgTWg

In the video, even the one guy who thinks he notices something, pauses for a beat then seems to decide, "naw...I must be wrong," and carries on. It makes me wonder if we all really have to be as nervous about passing as we usually are. I'm certainly not saying that we could be slack and still hope to pass. But perhaps if we could give just a few small cues, it might be a little easier than we assume.

What do you think? Do any of you have any "tricks" to share that you think have helped you pass, or any examples of how much you can get away with in male mode?

:battingeyelashes: Jacueen

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Originally Posted by Jacueen

Do any of you have any "tricks" to share that you think have helped you pass?

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I have a number that I think work well.

1. Try to appear as small/slight as possible. Between DNA, diet, and corsets you try to appear as light weight as possible. Even if you are tall, a very slight build is read as female.

2. The more "real" skin you show, the better. Women show alot more flesh than males do and if you can show thin arms, good legs, cleavage, etc.. it attracts the attention. That keeps them from looking at things that don't quite fit the image.

3. Curves. Men and women notice your curves and body shape first from a distance. If they're looking at your curvy butt or cleavage, they're not looking at your face (something my wife finds really annoying). If you can enhance those curves, men might never get to anything else!

I find that if you give the public plenty of female attributes to look at, they rarely get to the male ones that aren't totaly obscured.

I think that video should be a classic:) The funny one was when they switched and a woman was there:)

It just sows that people are not as perceptive s we think.

Hello, All my life I wanted to be female but never did anything with it, last year I started HRT but still never went out in public. When out in male mode I was getting looked at all the time and just could not think why? So a trans friend said just go out dressed and so what if someone looks at you. So I did and guess what no one looked, or I think even noticed me. So now when I am out in female mode I get less looks if any then in male mode. So what she was telling me I was out and passing without even trying. And the freedom you will have is worth the pain if someone sees you as a male dressed up as a female. I just feel we cant tell if we can pass without going out there and trying. Best of luck

Just a quick semi-related footnote: Derren Brown, the magician in the video, is quite famous in England and very openly gay - although not a crossdresser as far as I know.

:battingeyelashes: Jacueen

I agree with Sally about those little tricks. I was up at a mall and guy mode and noticed the shapes of ladies from behind were a telltale sign. My hips go in when they should be wider and definitely needs padding, and if it was not for my corset....well....good grief.

And in the summer, get rid of the guy short sleeve tan lines and the V neck tan lines from a polo shirt.....dead give away!

That video is blocked to us here in the UK, can you give us some information so that we may search for a version viewable in the UK?

Cheers.

That was too funny!!!!!!:laughing:

One of the greatest "tricks" of all is hiding in plain sight my friend.;):)

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Originally Posted by CharlotteW

That video is blocked to us here in the UK, can you give us some information so that we may search for a version viewable in the UK?

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Try one of these links:
http://pogpog.com/v/person-swap/
-or-
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/video/watch/345715/
-or-
http://www.dula.tv/watch.php?file=person-swap.flv

:battingeyelashes: Jacueen

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Originally Posted by Jacueen

Since about the age of seven, my biggest hobby has been magic (not the candles & pentagrams kind, the cards and slieght-of-hand type.)
:battingeyelashes: Jacueen

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Magic is really about more than "pick a card, any card . . . " That's why so many "magicians" don't impress us - because they fail to understand their craft.

Look at a magicienne producing doves. She's standing there looking a bit bored as she cups her hands in front of herself and, from nowhere, produces a dove that flies away.

Hells bells! That's not trivial! That's the production of life!

A magician saws a woman in half. Big deal - they overlook the real magic - putting her back together! (One possible alternative is Chris Angel's recent version of sawing, based upon the previous work of Raja Raboid and Aldo Richiardi)

Magic is about huge changes in life. Crossdressing is one of those huge changes. The out-and-about crossdresser is the magicienne!

That's why, if we want to "pass," we need to respect our "craft" and always create our best illusions!http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y53...032-Return.jpg

I really liked that .It reminded me of some of the stunts they pulled on Candid camera.

Thanks for sharing that video, it was quite interesting, especially when he swapped himself out with a woman.

I can see where you are going with this, and I would say yes, to an extent. Personally, my hands and feet would tend to give me away, but I think that if I were dressed up while driving i think that I could pass if all anyone saw was my face and torso.

From what I read here, much of it also has to do with confidence. I do not have any experience with this, as I only amble around my house.

This really brings up some interesting questions.

If you go to a mall, you can see how women dress. Dresss like them and you may pass.

Of course some of us are quite tall....

;)

I think the video explains the case when you go out in male mode and get mammed.

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Originally Posted by Arianna Daniels

One of the greatest "tricks" of all is hiding in plain sight my friend.;):)

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Speaking of hiding in plain sight, I have some of my clothes "hidden" in plain sight.. some of my heels are hidden under a stack of pantyhose and black shorts and stuff (not sure what else) and both of my brothers have been over recently and seen the clothing and not said word one about it.. some black tights and pantyhose as well...

Science has a different spin on this. It turns out we all subconsciously judge each other's body shape and this is what we use to differentiate men from women. It does not matter what height or weight you are, the deciding issue is the waist to hip ratio which in a healthy female is about 0.7. So measure your waist just below your ribcage and then multiply that by 1.42 to get your hip measurement, then add appropriate padding. If you make sure it is realistic padding stretching from your belly button to several inches past your groin and is correctly tapered then you will have the right body dimensions to convince most people that you are female.

In terms of passing, hip padding is much more important than breasts. And dont try to get to the 0.7 by using a corset because that will make your top half too heavy in comparison to narrow hips and you will still have a masculine body shape.

great video

I agree we see what we expect. Was en femme in another city & saw my cousin, but did not see her. She told me later & I was shocked, we even smiled at one another. Also have walked right past my neighbor& same thing. But they never recognized me. Mosy don't expect to see us in femme so they won't recognize us.

It's all about attitude.... imho...

I'm about six feet tall. When I see a woman anywhere near my height on the street, I notice. I wonder, is she actually my height, or is she a couple of inches shorter, but still taller than most women. Might she actually be taller than me? When you put the (woman + tall) together, the incongruity draws attention.

Now add wide set shoulders. That's a double whammy, and we still have't said anything about the rest of the body or the face or the walk. Even at night, with my silhouette, something is rotten in Denmark. :D The only way I pass is if someone else is walking up the other side of the street with their hair on fire. That's what magicians call misdirection. :eek:

OMG! I just couldn't believe they got away with some of them. They swapped a man out with an Asian female and no one noticed! I think it's very insightful that you made the intuitive leap into how that translates in to our passing. Clearly people DO see what the expect to see.
Thanks so much for sharing it!

Hands and height, I always guess would be the most obvious.

W O W

That was interesting, definitely food for dressing thoughts. I watched some of the other vids of his, curious bits he gets into. I thought the one at the dog track was great, wish I could pull that off !!! Could use the extra dough right now.

Thank you for sharing this vid, intriguing and fun all at once.

Charlene

I wonder if being a Cd'er we have a more acute peripheral vision than others?

I certainly notice a lot more going on around me than any of my friends.....:idontknow: